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Help with TROR  "Guidance for making TROR"

User is offline   Paul B 

#1

Micky C provided detailed instructions on how to do ROR on white walls. Following his detailed instructions I was able to reproduce ROR right away. Now I'm having another challenge. Creating ROR with red wall sectors. I have read the original TROR over many times and i'm just not getting it?

Finally... I didn't realize I could treat red sector walls as white sector walls when the sector has been extended as long as my player position marker was located in the extended space [above or below] in 3D mode. When the Mapster player marker arrow resides in the extended sector area, switching back to 2D mode allows me to attach a new sector to that red wall and it automatically connects to my new [upper\lower] sector I am currently in.

Would this be the correct way to do this? Or is there a better way? I'm just thinking this might get confusing with multiple extentions or rooms over rooms.

I think i'm developing bad ROR habbits. Please correct me where I am wrong? Thanks!

I'm also curious to know how the heck people are making 3D objects like a table without using sprites. If there is someone who has the patience to kindly explain how ROR can be used to achieve this in layman's terms it would be appreciated.

Lastly, it would definitely be useful if there was a toggle to somehow hide/show all layers for building purposes. For example keeping focus only on the current working extention layer while hidding all other levels (layers) above or below with a quick key. Like a "hide all non active layers" key. Pressing the same key twice would again show all layers (levels).

P.S not everyone knows that MMB is... Middle Mouse Button and I'm not even sure what the purpose of the middle mouse button is when using ROR. Every time I use it... it turns my lower extended sector into an upper extended sector and strange things start happening.

Good Grief! =)

This post has been edited by Paul B: 09 November 2011 - 01:02 AM

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User is offline   Stabs 

#2

ctrl + a & ctrl + pgup / pgdwn are all you need in regards to drawing tror layers based on there height, +a is automatic and pgup / pgdown cycle through layers.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#3

You must have seen that photo I put in the what are you working on now thread.
Posted Image

The way to think of doing that kind of geometry is, that instead of creating a child sector, and making an extension from that, you make the child sector, and make an extension from everything else. If you did this downwards, you then drag the focus down so you can edit the bottom layer, then press alt-s to make the void sector in the middle into a child sector in the bottom layer. You'll now have a floating sector that you can edit the top of and bottom of, adding legs underneath, or computers on top and such.

The problem is, it requires a lot of planning. I had to make all the tables and barriers before I made the extension. It'd be annoying if I had to add another one after I did it. The other minor setback is that any doors into the area will have to be in the top layer, so they'll be a bit off the floor.

Edit: If you haven't already, have a look at the Lets Rork TROR tech demo I released a while back. Some parts of it are a bit messy (they used a lot of layers, such as the floating alien ship, which was originally intended to rotate) but they do the job. If you open it up in mapster, and press ' + i then it'll reveal the boundary seperating the layers, which helps you visualize what I did.

The geometry I did in that photo is the same sort of thing as what I did in the bathroom of the facility. http://forums.duke4....post__p__106916

This post has been edited by Micky C: 09 November 2011 - 02:50 AM

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User is offline   Paul B 

#4

Okay, you guys are awesome! Thanks for the quick reply and the very informative advice. I can't wait to hammer out more ROR sectors and that's exactly what I needed! =)

Micky C your screenshot is just sick! That's what I saw on the form and I just can't get enough of it! Very awesome and creative! That's so sweet!

This post has been edited by Paul B: 10 November 2011 - 12:46 AM

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User is offline   Paul B 

#5

Here's my guide to using the TROR (True Room Over Room) For any user.

How to build your first TROR Map in 10 simplified steps.

1) Let’s start by switching the grid unit size. Press “G” key until you have the largest grid squares available. Make your first sector (valid player space) 5 by 5 squares. Do this by drawing a big square white box. (This is done by the “spacebar” key and moving the mouse in 2D mode on the Mapster grid).

*Note - You can Toggle between 2D & 3D mode by using the numeric pad <Enter> key while the arrow marker is within a valid player space (sector ).

2) Within the first sector you just created, create another sector box. Make this sector box 1 grid square by 1 grid square. This is done by drawing a sector within the first sector square you just created. Trace out that inner sector again so it becomes a red walled sector. Make sure you create points over top of every other existing point. These points on the wall / grid are called vertices.

3) Highlight the red walled sector you just created by holding the right "ALT" key and using the mouse to draw a green lined box around the red sector. This will select this sector so we can extend it.

4) Once the sector is highlighted release “ALT” and press "CTRL" + “E” (To Extend)

5) Choose whether you want to create an over lapping sector above on the ceiling or below on the floor. Use either “A” for (Above) or “Z” for ( below). Choose to press “Z” for the purpose of this article.

6) Switch the editor to 3D mode: Make sure your arrow cursor is inside the big white sector box. If not, right mouse click in that box to move your marker there. Now press the numeric pad “enter” key.

Note: You can move your position in 3D mode by using the arrow keys on the keyboard. (not the numeric pad). Use the “A” & “Z” keys to control your height for up and down in 3D mode.

7) Now lower your perspective so that you can pass through the black ROR tile on the floor. This area below is called the Extended sector space. Lower the floor until you are happy with the results. Use (Page Up/ Page Down) Keys on your keyboard while pointing at the floor which will lower or raise your floor height. Adjust it according to your preference lower it enough so that you can’t see the ROR tile above. You can also adjust your ROR tile you just created using the same method. But have your cursor on the ROR tile instead of pointing at the floor.

Once your marker has entered into the Extended sector space switch back to 2D Mode using the numeric “enter” key.

8) Press “CTRL” + “A” you will notice your red walled sector will turn white. This is how you will attach another sector below. Draw another sector (box) connecting to that white box on one of the sides.

9) Switch into 3D Mode and press the “I” while pointing at the Black tile “ROR” to reveal your sector below your main sector.

NOTE: You can also make the ROR tile a different tile like a water tile and also make that tile transparent by using the “T” key to toggle whether it’s opaque. To select a different tile press the “V” key twice on the keyboard while pointing directly at the ROR tile in 3D mode. This will allow you to choose your tile of choice.

10) Once you get comfortable with the basics principals, you can build multiple levels over levels. You can toggle between these layers in 2D mode using Page Up / Page Down on your keyboard.

Congratulations if you managed to make it this far. You now have a Room Below your Main Room without needing to add a Sector Effector warp!

Do you think this tutorial is thorough enough to eliminate all questions? =) Perhaps maybe this could be the new TROR tutorial for new users that want to just dive in? Just my way of giving back to the community that has helped me so much over the year of making new maps.

This post has been edited by Paul B: 10 November 2011 - 12:44 AM

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User is offline   Paul B 

#6

Would it be possible to have an undo button when working with TROR? In my case, I was planning out this 4 tier building.I created a sector between the 4 tiers. When I realized it wasn't linked to any of the 4 over lapping sectors I deleted it and it ended up unlinking my entire 4 levels and it revered back to the main single level just by deleting one sector within one of the layers. It would be really useful if there was a back button to reverse the last sector creation or deletion. Does something like this already exist? If not would it be tough to implement?

This post has been edited by Paul B: 15 November 2011 - 09:00 PM

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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#7

There used to be an undo feature, but it was unreliable, for example sometimes it would delete all the sprites in the map, and it's been the case that by the time the mapper has noticed this, all the backups have aleady been overwritten, which is extremely demotivating, so I guess they thought it wasn't worth it and got rid of it.

If you aren't doing so already, it's a good idea to keep loads of backups, and definitely a recent backup in a separate location. Although there was talk not too long ago about implementing a more sophisticated automatic backup system which I hope comes about.
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User is offline   Loke 

#8

View PostMicky C, on 16 November 2011 - 02:34 AM, said:

If you aren't doing so already, it's a good idea to keep loads of backups, and definitely a recent backup in a separate location. Although there was talk not too long ago about implementing a more sophisticated automatic backup system which I hope comes about.


Indeed, that's what I'm been going by since I started using mapster32. Up until now, for an example, I have 163 versions of a TROR test map lying about in my Duke BUILD folder. Every time I make a small change like texturing or expanding/building a room I save. When I've made some noticeable progress I always make a completely new save so if I screw up I can just easily go back and load a previous version.
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User is offline   Paul B 

#9

Another cool feature would be a selection tool for TROR. When you select a sector sometimes you want to select the larger sector but not any of the inside sectors. It would be nice to be able to de-select highlighted sectors that are contain within the main highlighted sector so that when you are working with TROR it's not trying to add TROR to the wrong sectors.
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User is offline   Mike Norvak 

  • Music Producer

#10

View PostPaul B, on 16 November 2011 - 08:22 AM, said:

Another cool feature would be a selection tool for TROR. When you select a sector sometimes you want to select the larger sector but not any of the inside sectors. It would be nice to be able to de-select highlighted sectors that are contain within the main highlighted sector so that when you are working with TROR it's not trying to add TROR to the wrong sectors.


There's already a function to achieve this, just hold Ctrl and [;] while pressing Alt Gr to select sectors or Ctrl and ['] pressing Alt Gr to deselect. Maybe yoo want to read this guide made by Micky:

http://forums.duke4....-mapping-guide/

Shortcuts for TROR (quoted from Eduke32 wiki)

Quote

TROR related keys
2D mode

E+CTRL sector extension prompt (sectors to extend must be highlighted) / make sandwich [needs better explanation]
A+CTRL toggle auto-grayout of non-extended sectors
J+CTRL TROR-join sectors. The selection must consist of the two sets of sectors you wish to join.
U+CTRL Clear extension: delete the bunch (i.e. ceiling-floor connection) of the aimed-at sector's floor
PGUP/PGDN Change 'player' height in discrete steps in order to go through the different levels
TAB+CTRL Display one currently aimed at sector (of potentially many that lie under the mouse crosshair)
HOME and END as modifiers to AltGr: select all sectors whose floor's/ceiling's bunchnum equal the bunchnum of the aimed at sector (useful for further operations on whole bunches)
3D mode

I invisibility preview: toggle fake ROR texture on non-masked portals
LENTER+CTRL When aiming at an extended floor/ceiling, paste to all floors/ceilings of the bunch of the aimed at one
T, B and H work as with walls, though they set/toggle the bits only on one side


This post has been edited by Norvak: 16 November 2011 - 08:56 AM

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User is offline   Paul B 

#11

Thank you Norvak! I'll take a look at it =) I'm not sure I have that many fingers to hit all those buttons at once... I hope it doesn't require me using my tongue to deselect a sector.

This post has been edited by Paul B: 16 November 2011 - 08:48 PM

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User is offline   Mark 

#12

Thanks a bunch Paul. After going :D at other instructions I spent 2 minutes and the first few steps from your post and created my first TROR test. WOO HOO!! I've already been spending too much time mapping. Now its going to increase after learning more of this as I try to add limited amounts to my existing maps. :)

This post has been edited by Marked: 16 November 2011 - 04:19 PM

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User is offline   Mike Norvak 

  • Music Producer

#13

Hi, Is there a way to select ALL the sectors from a TROR map and paste it on another map, I tried the classic selection method but it only copies some sectors and not all the bunches, any suggestion?
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#14

Hold right alt then right shift then drag your box.
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User is offline   Paul B 

#15

View PostMicky C, on 09 December 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Hold right alt then right shift then drag your box.

Yea Micky's pretty fast on the draw. But I would have suggested the same thing. =) Micky's a TROR Ninja Sensei!

This post has been edited by Paul B: 09 December 2012 - 03:30 PM

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User is offline   Mike Norvak 

  • Music Producer

#16

View PostMicky C, on 09 December 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Hold right alt then right shift then drag your box.


Thank you Micky, sure you're the TROR LORD :)
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User is offline   Kyanos 

#17

I've started what may become a Polymer HRP TROR map. I've noticed that swinging doors are causing some drawing glitches. I can barely begin to describe it. Basically, I'm using three massive TROR layers to get towers and roofs and such. As soon as I open my swinging doors I get weird sector mirroring/mirages.
Attached File  TROR_Swingdoor_map.zip (9.86K)
Number of downloads: 167
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User is offline   Mark 

#18

No problems showing up on my end. Before I loaded the map I thought it might be the doors crossing over a wall. It will cause that effect. But seeing the doors in action, thats not the case. I'm running version 3423

This post has been edited by Mark.: 28 January 2013 - 08:42 PM

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User is offline   Kyanos 

#19

I was using my own home compiled eduke. I just downloaded the official synthesis build and have the same issue. I also just now noticed that It only draws errors when the door is open. It draws side by side sectors of the brick tower you can see at the start position.
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User is offline   F!re-Fly 

#20

Hello Duke team! I know very well that I really arrive late to give an opinion on this thread, but that's to say that I really started to discover the TROR and it's really great. Do you think it's still possible to post other questions here?
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#21

You only get one, and that was it
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User is offline   F!re-Fly 

#22

View PostForge, on 06 September 2019 - 08:59 AM, said:

You only get one, and that was it


Okay! I will see in another active thread then.
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User is offline   Paul B 

#23

View PostFirefly Trooper, on 08 September 2019 - 07:11 AM, said:

Okay! I will see in another active thread then.


He was just joking, Forge has a warped sense of humor. Ask away.
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