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Mapster is 2D reality is 3D... or is it?

User is offline   Kyanos 

#1

Been working with Eduke32 and Mapster for a while now and it's got me thinking about our universe and the objects in it. More specifically 2 dimensional objects. In duke3d all sprites are 2 dimensional, meaning if you look directly down the length of it it completely disappears as if it no longer exists. Can anyone think of a truly 2D object that exists in our 3D universe. The only one that I can think of is an event horizon of a black hole. Any others???
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#2

Why is the event horizon of a black hole 2D? I thought it was basically a sphere around a singularity which represents the distance from the centre beyond which nothing can escape the gravitational forces involved, not even light, so you can't see any 'events' beyond it, giving it the name 'event horizon'.

As long as an object is made up of atoms from our 3 dimensional universe, I believe it must be 3D (even subatomic particles have depth.) If you start thinking about electromagnetic waves such as light, then you might have an argument for witnessing the first dimension (personal speculation.)

If you're interested in the possibility of multiple dimensions, then I very strongly recommend watching Flatland: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0814106/
It explains possibilities and concepts in very easy to understand language, and it has a very engaging story line as well :D

Edit: here's the trailer, it's got a whole bunch of famous actors doing voices.



This post has been edited by Micky C: 05 November 2011 - 03:04 PM

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User is offline   Kyanos 

#3

An event horizon is "spherical" although it has no volume, the black hole itself has volume. You cannot observe an event horizon only the effects of it. I will check that movie out, it seems interesting.
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#4

Not entirely on topic, but I remember talking to a guy that worked for IBM (or possibly DEC) in the 1960's through until 1981, he used to speak in mathematical forumlas, probably a genious. He was obsessed with such things. I don't know about 2D, but I do remember him talking about one-dimensional shapes, I think he spoke of Euclidean Planes and Lines... I don't know why something like that would be unable to exist in the universe, but then I'm not really the right person to ask.

This guy also had an obsession with fractals, he was trying to discover the end of a fractal (supposedly they aren't meant to have an end, but there's a massive cash prize if you can prove otherwise) - he had been experimenting with this for many years. If you want to totally blow your mind, watch a 3D Mandelbrot on YouTube, this guy actually seemed to know exactly what was going on. Apparenty these represent something about the infinite nature of the universe :D

If you wish to blow your mind further, you could add a few dimensions and watch a Hypersphere but good luck understanding it, even better, to add confusion, throw in a 6-Dimensional Hypercube (Hexaract) and realise that what you just saw was a 3D representation of a 6D shape on a 2D surface.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#5

Edit: I was writing this while High Treason posted.
The event horizon itself has no volume, but it encloses space that does have volume. The fact that the event horizon is a sphere means that it extends in 3 dimensions. Although you're right about not being able to 'observe' a black hole, and it seems that an event horizon is an effect rather than an object, much like light itself (which has no mass, but I'm not sure about volume), so I'm not even sure if it can be considered in the whole dimensional argument.

The observation of other dimensional beings is something I find interesting, and is talked about in the video, not so much the third dimension and beyond, but more the 0th, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

2nd Edit: haha that 6th dimensional cube was freaky. It's funny 'cos to a 6th dimensional being, it would appear perfectly regular, but to us it seems incredibly dynamic.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 05 November 2011 - 03:32 PM

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#6

View PostMicky C, on 05 November 2011 - 03:28 PM, said:

It's funny 'cos to a 6th dimensional being, it would appear perfectly regular, but to us it seems incredibly dynamic.


You puny 3-Dimensional beings! Your pathetic 3D cubes are simply no match for our 6D ones! Muahahahahahaaaa!
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User is offline   Kyanos 

#7

Yeah, fractals are one of the most beautiful things in math. Those videos were quite impressive. I think I have to make a rotating tesseract myself now in blender. And micky I found a video where a flatlander went into lineland, really makes me think about all that we are missing.
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User is online   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#8

View PostDrek, on 05 November 2011 - 02:41 PM, said:

In duke3d all sprites are 2 dimensional, meaning if you look directly down the length of it it completely disappears as if it no longer exists.


Funny you should use that as the definition of 2D for Duke 3D, since in Duke 3D it is impossible to look straight down. :D
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#9

That, and in the original renderer, the sprites were proper billboards and looked exactly the same no matter how you looked at them... Having said that, I don't believe you were truly looking Up of Down in the original renderer and that it was just distortion of the view or something.
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User is offline   Kyanos 

#10

Sorry, I meant across the height of it. :D Not down the length.
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User is offline   Kyanos 

#11

Smoke em' if you got em' then check this out.

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#12

That was cool, but my favorite will always be the one in Crystal Dream 2.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#13

Actually, Duke is 2.5D. It's not quite 2D and not quite 3D. What I've always found interesting is that while the world is actually 3D, we can only interpret it with our eyes in a 2D manner.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#14

Not exactly, the brain takes the stereoscopic image created by the eyes and re-renders it in a slightly different perspective (if it didn't, when you look up or down at a door frame, the top or bottom would become narrower like it would in video games) and generates an actual 3D 'virtual' reality to look around in. It's a problem if you can't see the world in 3D, and some people have this condition. If you close one eye, it becomes a lot harder to judge distances because you're no longer seeing the world in 3D.

Its also possible that if you look through a bunch of tubes with mirrors that place your point of view of each eye further out sideways from your head (so that your 'eyes' are further apart), you can have super 3D vision!

Also, stereoscopic vision isn't the only way your brain can generate a 3D world. It also uses parallax while you're moving and a few other tricks. In fact, since some birds have an eye on each side of their head, they don't have stereoscopic vision, so they rely on looking somewhere with one eye, then instantly turning their head and looking at the exact same place with the other eye to generate a 3D snapshot of the world to see how far away predators are to see if they're a threat.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 07 November 2011 - 02:51 AM

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User is offline   The Commander 

  • I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...

#15

Polymer is "3D" compared to 2.5D as the other renders use.
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#16

View PostDrek, on 05 November 2011 - 02:41 PM, said:

Been working with Eduke32 and Mapster for a while now and it's got me thinking about our universe and the objects in it. More specifically 2 dimensional objects. In duke3d all sprites are 2 dimensional, meaning if you look directly down the length of it it completely disappears as if it no longer exists. Can anyone think of a truly 2D object that exists in our 3D universe. The only one that I can think of is an event horizon of a black hole. Any others???

Yes, 2d sprites in Duke3D and Doom.

I'm baaacckkk :)
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User is offline   Foxley 

#17

View PostThe Commander, on 07 November 2011 - 03:05 AM, said:

Polymer is "3D" compared to 2.5D as the other renders use.

Really? I'm interested in how stuff works, can you explain how it does that?
Is that the reason it lags so much even without dynamic lights?

*nosarcasm*
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User is offline   blackhatred 

  • Dumbfuck Wannabe

#18

View PostFoxley, on 10 October 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

Really? I'm interested in how stuff works, can you explain how it does that?
Is that the reason it lags so much even without dynamic lights?

*nosarcasm*
You woke up the beast.
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User is offline   The Commander 

  • I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...

#19

I don't know if this Foxley is the real deal or a bad troll.
In either case he sucks donkey balls.
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User is offline   Radar 

  • King of SOVL

#20

He's quoting a post by you. This is so intentional. I love you Foxley.
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User is offline   Lunick 

#21

View PostFoxley, on 10 October 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

Really? I'm interested in how stuff works, can you explain how it does that?
Is that the reason it lags so much even without dynamic lights?

*nosarcasm*


Posted Image
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User is offline   Mike Norvak 

  • Music Producer

#22

View PostCentaurious, on 10 October 2013 - 05:18 AM, said:

You woke up the beast.


ROFL really haha
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