[You]

Quote

The whole Duke Nukem Forever situation speaks volumes, showing how the gaming media is devoid of talented knowledgeable critics and how the costumers are a marketing teams wet dream, ignorant about what makes a good game with a preference for movies.
If we were turn Duke Nukem Forever into an equation we’d get this one:
Halo + Half-Life 2 + Duke Nukem 3D = Duke Nukem Forever
It shares so many of the same design decisions with both of them it’s remarkable how popular Halo and Half-Life 2 are considering just how terrible DNF is.
All three are very linear, all three use vehicles to add variety, all three suffer from a lack of variety in terms of enemy with generic Covenant/Combine/Pig Cops being the main opposition, all three plan what weapons should be used where and provide the required tools just before, all three use heavy scripting for their battles. There’s not even a big difference in the complexity of the map design and HL2 and DNF share the same puzzle design ideas.
If DNF is such a complete failure, with broken mechanics et cetera, et cetera then surely that must mean that Halo and Half-Life 2, while great at their release have game mechanics and design decisions that simply do not hold up to todays standards and cannot be considered two of the best FPS games ever, as they very much are.
The truth is DNF was in the impossible position of needing to fit into peoples preconceptions of what a Duke Nukem game is (As it happens these preconceptions never match up to any other Duke Nukem game and make zero sense). People wanted DNF to be Painkiller, Serious Sam or Bulletstorm even though it was always quite clear that it wasn’t going to be anything like that if people took even a glimpse at the 1998 or 2001 trailers.
DNF is a well above average FPS game that’s light years ahead of stuff like Medal of Honor, which involved mostly watching cool stuff happen nearby you and one-hit killing Muslims with a variety of weapons that all acted the same. Lets not even get onto other FPS games where you can complete entire sections on the hardest difficulty without even shooting.

[ThePinkus]

Its also a few parts Call of Duty.
Honestly, the reason its not a good game and people don't like it is because its not finished. Yeah yeah yeah, 14 some odd years later and its still not even finished. But go back and look at it. The graphics seem unfinished. Sections feel incomplete or hacked together. Its like they had a pile of good ideas and were getting rid of the bad parts, but halfway through they had to quickly just tie everything they had together or else the game wouldn't have been released period.

[Micky C]

Yeah the game felt like it should have been much longer. I'm not saying the ending was sudden, but I agree that the game felt hacked together with a god awful (even for a cliche/parody) story line thrown over it in an attempt to hold it together.

[BraveTriforcer]

There wasn't even really a story. It's like L4D2 where the "Story" is "The character(s) go here, then here because they did this, and here, and finish their adventure here". That's not to say most every story isn't that, but most games are written in a way that this formula isn't extremely obvious.

[Hank]

@ You - you requested opinions, here it comes
At the beginning, buddy quotes:

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how the costumers are a marketing teams wet dream, ignorant about what makes a good game with a preference for movies.

That is a low blow, I read no further. Anyone not liking the game is ignorant on what makes a good game. Hmm, the game got a score of 7/10. I think the gamers somehow know what is good, and what needs improvement. No game is perfect, why should DNF be?

[Mad Max RW]

That reddit post sounds like somebody living in deep denial.

[thelegend4ever]

Although the game feels incomplete, I have no doubt that the soon to come DLC is part of the game that was taken out. I also really hope that it'll atleast fix the problems that plagued DNF Vanilla and make the gameplay more robust.

[Micky C]

BraveTriforcer, on 05 August 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:

There wasn't even really a story. It's like L4D2 where the "Story" is "The character(s) go here, then here because they did this, and here, and finish their adventure here". That's not to say most every story isn't that, but most games are written in a way that this formula isn't extremely obvious.

I agree with you, but they forced us to sit through the most boring dialogue ever in an attempt to explain what's going on. I'm calling that the story, and it sucks.

thelegend4ever, on 05 August 2011 - 08:23 PM, said:

Although the game feels incomplete, I have no doubt that the soon to come DLC is part of the game that was taken out. I also really hope that it'll atleast fix the problems that plagued DNF Vanilla and make the gameplay more robust.

It's not like Gearbox intentionally took out (nearly) finished levels or anything, but yeah those levels were probably in the leaked documents and should be really good fun
Edit: and hopefully non-linear.

[BraveTriforcer]

Those are levels cut from DNF. Your hopes will be crushed in terms of linearity.

[randir14]

thelegend4ever, on 05 August 2011 - 08:23 PM, said:

Although the game feels incomplete, I have no doubt that the soon to come DLC is part of the game that was taken out. I also really hope that it'll atleast fix the problems that plagued DNF Vanilla and make the gameplay more robust.

Jon St. John mentioned doing voice work for a karoke bar in the DLC. The leaked documents had a karoke bar, and you can even unlock concept art of it in DNF. So it wont surprise me at all if the DLC levels were either cut from the game, or are new content based on the old design.

[rasmus thorup]

It's probably cut so that we can buy it later.

[OpenMaw]

Frankly, the more I see people comment on DNF , the more a sense of denial I'm seeing in a lot of people.

I haven't been able to find any reason to play the game again.

Yet, Vinny and I fired up Duke3D again and blazed through the first episode...

...And no, I don't think it's unfair to expect DNF to at least be of the same quality as a game that is 15 goddamn years old. Damn all the excuses for this game. The millions and millions of dollars, and years and years of time that went into it. It's pitiful. It has nothing to do with expectations either, because, let me tell ya... All I wanted from DNF, was Duke Nukem. They botched the formula that made Duke's better iterations(Duke3D + expansions, Zero Hour, Advanced) so great.

[thelegend4ever]

Commando Nukem, on 06 August 2011 - 05:40 PM, said:

Frankly, the more I see people comment on DNF , the more a sense of denial I'm seeing in a lot of people.

I haven't been able to find any reason to play the game again.

Yet, Vinny and I fired up Duke3D again and blazed through the first episode...

...And no, I don't think it's unfair to expect DNF to at least be of the same quality as a game that is 15 goddamn years old. Damn all the excuses for this game. The millions and millions of dollars, and years and years of time that went into it. It's pitiful. It has nothing to do with expectations either, because, let me tell ya... All I wanted from DNF, was Duke Nukem. They botched the formula that made Duke's better iterations(Duke3D + expansions, Zero Hour, Advanced) so great.

Although I know and understand EVERYBODY will not like DNF, I still don't think it's that bad of a game it gets its rep for. I do admit though, the SP had NO replay value. Once I ended up getting all of my achievements for it, I haven't touched it and don't plan on to. The multiplayer is what keeps having me come back. That IS the savior of this game. Of course people will think MP is and afterthought, but I just don't see it. This isn't denial...as I know for afact DNF dd not live up to it's hype one bit, but I still enjoy the game.

[Jimmy]

Commando Nukem, on 06 August 2011 - 05:40 PM, said:

Frankly, the more I see people comment on DNF , the more a sense of denial I'm seeing in a lot of people.

I haven't been able to find any reason to play the game again.

Yet, Vinny and I fired up Duke3D again and blazed through the first episode...

...And no, I don't think it's unfair to expect DNF to at least be of the same quality as a game that is 15 goddamn years old. Damn all the excuses for this game. The millions and millions of dollars, and years and years of time that went into it. It's pitiful. It has nothing to do with expectations either, because, let me tell ya... All I wanted from DNF, was Duke Nukem. They botched the formula that made Duke's better iterations(Duke3D + expansions, Zero Hour, Advanced) so great.

Thank you. All I wanted to do was play a game where there are a shit ton of cool enemies, explosive and dangerous kickass weaponry in levels and storylines that are basically stolen from awesome action films. All I wanted was to be able to play with nearly anything placed into the environment. All I wanted was a non-linear experience where my exploration was rewarded with secrets and secret levels. All I wanted was some action, some humour, the basic things that appeal to the mind of a man. A lot of fun. I caught many glimpses of this in DNF, and that makes it all the more sad for me. This game was not what it was supposed to be. You can't take a steak off the grill too early, and you can't do it too late. Somehow they managed to undercook a steak by taking it off the grill too late.

[Hendricks266]

Captain Awesome, on 07 August 2011 - 08:52 AM, said:

Somehow they managed to undercook a steak by taking it off the grill too late.

They burned the steak and started over a couple times.

[Jimmy]

Hahah, well, my 'mantaphor' (I C WUT U DID THERE.) was implying they took too long to release an unfinished product. That is documented. Read any of the leaked documents, and it's evident.

[Graywolf]

Commando Nukem, on 06 August 2011 - 05:40 PM, said:

Frankly, the more I see people comment on DNF , the more a sense of denial I'm seeing in a lot of people.

I haven't been able to find any reason to play the game again.

Yet, Vinny and I fired up Duke3D again and blazed through the first episode...

...And no, I don't think it's unfair to expect DNF to at least be of the same quality as a game that is 15 goddamn years old. Damn all the excuses for this game. The millions and millions of dollars, and years and years of time that went into it. It's pitiful. It has nothing to do with expectations either, because, let me tell ya... All I wanted from DNF, was Duke Nukem. They botched the formula that made Duke's better iterations(Duke3D + expansions, Zero Hour, Advanced) so great.

perfect stated, agreed

And i'm suspicious to talk about Halo and Hl2, because for me they're both overrated games that failed to provide first person shooter fun. HL1 was a good game, tought - it was a SHOOTER in first place, at least. HL2 is a lot of crap all together.

And yes, DNF is a lame mix of Halo, HL2, COD = everything bad on the first person shooter scene on the last 10 years.

DNF should have been influenced by Far Cry, Doom 3, or DUKE NUKEM 3D ITSELF. These were true shooters. Doom 3 was linear, but it provided replay value with tons of secrets and stuff to find on the bases. On DNF we don't get any, in fact Duke MOCKS at keycards. So depressive.

There's lot of examples, but i'll mention one: Why THE FUCKING HELL they removed the scuba gear? Who was the dumbfuck that tought that "breathing trough bubbles" is better? Why don't just leave a basic feature from the old game?

To me is like they wanted to keep the game as diferent as possible from Duke 3D, to keep the game like HL2, halo, COD, or whatever crap they wanted DNF to be like. George Broussard is known to want to put everything he likes of the game industry on the game he makes. Maybe that's why DNF lacks any idendity, "soul", whatsoever.

ITs a shame because I found the shooting/combat parts of DNF pretty enjoyable, too bad the "variety" (shrunk duke, driving and turret sections) and oversuded scripited, caustrophobic linear style RUINED the game.

I was playing eduke32 on the other day, and I reflected: Hell, there's only 2 monhs DNF was released and I'm back again playing Duke 3D.

Sad, so sad.

[Spirrwell]

So... why the hell doesn't anybody complain about multiplayer if people are so bent on complaining about the Single Player Campaign? If you're going to complain about the game, you might as well do it as a whole since it has to be complete shit too.

[OpenMaw]

Spirrwell, on 08 August 2011 - 03:44 PM, said:

So... why the hell doesn't anybody complain about multiplayer if people are so bent on complaining about the Single Player Campaign? If you're going to complain about the game, you might as well do it as a whole since it has to be complete shit too.

Played a little bit of each mode. My reaction? *Shrug* I'd play it if I had some buddies that purchased it. But right now my primary online gaming buddies (Vinsane and another friend who plays L4D with me on occassion) have not gotten it.

[Spirrwell]

Commando Nukem, on 08 August 2011 - 04:18 PM, said:

Played a little bit of each mode. My reaction? *Shrug* I'd play it if I had some buddies that purchased it. But right now my primary online gaming buddies (Vinsane and another friend who plays L4D with me on occassion) have not gotten it.

Well Reaperman and I have been playing it pretty often, I'm not disappointed, but I guess that makes me a fanboy of the game, right? I mean that's what people are going to call me. I also still play the single player campaign on and off. Many of you will notice my sarcastic, angry and defensive manner here, but I could care less since it's obvious what I say or anyone else says means nothing unless it's trash talking the game, the developers or whatever.

I didn't come here to argue about that now. So if anyone wants to argue that then forget it, you can settle it VIA PM.

I've one thing to say though, that may or may not be considered related to the current topic, but it does reflect the game's future in a way. If mod tools will be released eventually, it won't be until after all the paid for DLC is all gone and done with, since it'd be the most efficient way to make money.

[Mad Max RW]

You sound more like a victim than a fanboy.

[Spirrwell]

Mad Max RW, on 08 August 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

You sound more like a victim than a fanboy.

A victim?

[Mad Max RW]

Spirrwell, on 08 August 2011 - 06:34 PM, said:

Well Reaperman and I have been playing it pretty often, I'm not disappointed, but I guess that makes me a fanboy of the game, right? I mean that's what people are going to call me. I also still play the single player campaign on and off. Many of you will notice my sarcastic, angry and defensive manner here, but I could care less since it's obvious what I say or anyone else says means nothing unless it's trash talking the game, the developers or whatever.

Sounds like classic victim mentality.

[Spirrwell]

Mad Max RW, on 08 August 2011 - 06:36 PM, said:

Sounds like classic victim mentality.

A victim of WHAT exactly?

[Jimmy]

I still play the singleplayer and multiplayer at times. The parts that are fun are very fun, but I dunno. It's still very disappointing.

[Mad Max RW]

Technically, a victim of your own paranoia. You convinced yourself what you say or anyone else says means "nothing" because of some vast anti-DNF conspiracy.

[Spirrwell]

Mad Max RW, on 08 August 2011 - 07:14 PM, said:

Technically, a victim of your own paranoia. You convinced yourself what you say or anyone else says means "nothing" because of some vast anti-DNF conspiracy.

I've just learned how things work. I'm not entirely stupid.

[Mad Max RW]

Spirrwell, on 08 August 2011 - 07:52 PM, said:

I've just learned how things work. I'm not entirely stupid.

I seem to recall not too long ago I was consistently attacked on this forum and others for being realistic and not marching in lockstep with the rest of the "fanboys". Turnabout is fair play, hm?

[X-Vector]

Mad Max RW, on 08 August 2011 - 07:14 PM, said:

Technically, a victim of your own paranoia. You convinced yourself what you say or anyone else says means "nothing" because of some vast anti-DNF conspiracy.

That's the standard defense mechanism over at the Gearbox forum and unfortunately it has also reared its head on the 3DR board somewhat.

What I'd like to know though is what's so special about DNF's multiplayer.
It's the saving grace of the game according to some, but to me it just seems like late nineties MP in a Duke Nukem skin.
It doesn't appear to contain any sort of genuine innovation and quite frankly, if I want to play late nineties MP, I'll play the original Unreal Tournament or Quake 3.

[OpenMaw]

X-Vector, on 10 August 2011 - 01:58 AM, said:

That's the standard defense mechanism over at the Gearbox forum and unfortunately it has also reared its head on the 3DR board somewhat.

What I'd like to know though is what's so special about DNF's multiplayer.
It's the saving grace of the game according to some, but to me it just seems like late nineties MP in a Duke Nukem skin.
It doesn't appear to contain any sort of genuine innovation and quite frankly, if I want to play late nineties MP, I'll play the original Unreal Tournament or Quake 3.

If you want innovation, you'll have to look elsewhere. We don't do that sort of thing around here anymore.