[Martin]

Freedoom, I'm sure you all know of it. For those that don't, its "a project to create a free software/open source Doom 2 IWAD file. Combined with the free source code, this results in a complete Doom-based game. All material in the Freedoom project is released under the modified BSD license, so other projects may reuse any of the Freedoom material for their own purposes as they wish. In fact, this is a secondary goal of the project." - The Doom Wiki

Honourable goals, especially that second one. Freedoom looks like this;



Yep, a somewhat shoddy-looking Doom clone. It plays exactly the same, it just doesn't have Doom's monsters, levels, or weapons. The part id didn't make free. Now, we're in the same basic situation with Duke Nukem 3D. The engine is free, but the game itself remains closed. I think this creates a barrier for some people, and makes them not bother with EDuke32. Can they be bothered to buy an old-ass game just to use a modern port/development of the technology? In most cases - no. Can they be bothered to illegally download the GRP somewhere? In most (?) cases - no.

Can we be bothered to make our own GRP from the ground-up to distribute with EDuke32? Probably not, but it's just an idea. It just seems to me that some of you put a lot of work into something that hardly anyone outside of the forum even sees, let alone plays. If people could download EDuke32 from the proper source, and have it come with a game that's all strapped and ready to play - that's got to be a good thing, right? It would not 'replace' Duke Nukem 3D, that game could still be procured and run on EDuke32 as it is now.

Also, having our own game means not needing to tiptoe around copyright and so forth. Mappers could take wantonly from our game as much as they liked without fear of legal proceedings. Currently, 3DR technically even own the HRP since all it's contents are directly based off of the textures etc from their original GRP. I already own Duke 3D on three other platforms. As much as it is best on PC, I really didn't need it yet again. I was interested in EDuke32 because the mapper looked comparatively (to modern stuff) simple to use, and fun. Also, I was intrigued by possibilities of perception and scale when working in faux 3D (e.g. making tiny houses that are massive when you go inside, like Jack's trailer in Loaded Weapon 1).

If it were to be done, I'd want it to not be a pale imitation of Duke Nukem 3D in the same way that Freedoom just feels like an off-key Doom. The thought of a Duke-alike protagonist spitting out badly-recorded Duke-ish lines from some kid who thinks he does a good Duke Nukem impression.. vomit inducing. If it were to be done, how about just doing something not all that much like Duke? I think Freedoom suffers through a drip-feed of contributors, who aim to emulate the copyrighted content of Doom, getting as close as they can to the mark without infringing said copyright. This results in some mundane levels, and badly-designed monsters who behave identically to their Doom counterparts.

If our game had it's own 'look', it's own gameplay, and basically it's own coherent design, it'd stand a chance of being a decent game. Imagine Shadow Warrior was our hypothetical game, and you get what I mean. I doesn't look or sound like Duke, and gameplay is significantly different. The important thing is that EDuke32 remains a development of the Build engine, and remains a platform on which one can play Duke Nukem 3D. So long as this remains true, EDuke32's core tenets would be unaltered. If the engine also came packaged with a full game free of charge and copyright, designed to show off the engine in all it's polymer glory in addition to providing free assets - that'd really be something! If it were a cool new EDuke32 game rather than a slightly stinky Duke 3D clone, all the better.

What are your thoughts? I'm particularly interested in what the EDuke32 chieftains/architects think of this idea. I'd imagine I'm not the first to propose such a thing (though a forum search suggests otherwise). If so, do you feel any different about it now than when it was mentioned last?

[Danukem]

From the title of the thread and the first few paragraphs of your post, it sounds like you want to make resources to replace those in DUKE3D.GRP, so that people can play Duke 3D without buying it, albeit with somewhat different graphics and sounds. One thing worth noting about that goal is that, as long as the replacement tiles are the same sizes as the originals, the free pack will work flawlessly with the HRP, so that a player really can play Duke 3D for free (as long as they use the HRP). Even if the original maps aren't distributed, it would still give access to all the user maps, and that's much better than the original maps anyway. Technically it would be a violation of the HRP license, but that's not going to stop anyone.

But reading further into your post, it seems that you turn against that idea and want to make something that does not try to imitate Duke 3D. It sounds like you want to make a TC which is an entire free game, and is quite different from Duke 3D. That's fine and all, but you should be aware that there are several TCs like that already. Also, if that is your goal, then the thread title and the beginning of your post are misleading.

[Martin]

Yeah, it was long and rambling. In short; Freedoom = great idea, not so great product. I then outlines why I think Freedoom has problems and what those problems are, and if we were to make and distribute a free alternative to Duke, we shouldn't make the same mistakes. Ergo, imitation Duke would be crappy. Let's not imitate, let's provide something free and decent. If there is a good TC whose authors would be willing to partake in this (and bring their project over), then let's do that.

[Jimmy]

DeeperThought, on 26 July 2011 - 08:53 PM, said:

Even if the original maps aren't distributed, it would still give access to all the user maps, and that's much better than the original maps anyway.

Implying you can compare apples to oranges.

Personally, I don't like the idea of a 'Freeduke' because it's a great game and it's already so cheap anyway. No point in trying to rehash it, resources could be better spent elsewhere.

[Martin]

Captain Awesome, on 26 July 2011 - 09:50 PM, said:

Personally, I don't like the idea of a 'Freeduke' because it's a great game and it's already so cheap anyway. No point in trying to rehash it, resources could be better spent elsewhere.

Otherwise fair points, but I did stress that it should not be a rip-off of Duke 3D. It'd be a game worth playing that just so happens to be built with and run on EDuke32.

[Danukem]

Martin, on 26 July 2011 - 10:03 PM, said:

Otherwise fair points, but I did stress that it should not be a rip-off of Duke 3D. It'd be a game worth playing that just so happens to be built with and run on EDuke32.

But if all you are suggesting is to make some non-Duke game using EDuke32, then why talk about Freedoom at all? And why name the thread "Freeduke32"? You've kind of started off on the wrong foot, by confusing us.

Also, you don't seem to be aware of the free TCs that already exist.

[E.C.S]

Also, one thing is re-made a character which we only know his face and doesn't have a voice (except when is injured). But trying to re-made Duke Nukem, that's basically kill big part of the game.

[Plagman]

Even though it appears that's not what the OP is talking about, there was a project of making free game resources to use with the Duke3D client and gameplay, but 3DR C&Ded the author anyway. It was leilei over at the JonoF forums, there's the thread with screenshots: http://www.jonof.id....hp?topic=1437.0

[Hendricks266]

For one thing, FreeDoom sucks ass. I tried playing it and ragequit after about one minute. The gameplay is bad. The music track was a very close imitation of the first song from Doom, but it danced around actually getting to the point of the original melody so much I almost pulled my hair out.

For another thing, there's no point to FreeDuke. The Duke Nukem personality is a copyrighted character, formerly to 3D Realms (Apogee Software Ltd.), and now to Gearbox. Without Duke, all you have is another generic shooter. It would be better to build your own game from the ground up on the BUILD engine, or ask Ken if you can base it off of Ken-Build, his fully functioning tech demo game. If you want that, go play FreeDoom.

Finally, as stated before, the HRP basically serves as FreeDuke, at least for non-8-bit artwork, except that 3D Realms gave us permission to use the Duke Nukem likeness, all the original game's content, and specific things like the title screen. (A notable exception was the 3D Realms logo, which was prohibited.) You can write a script to analyze the original art files and output defintions for dummytiles with offsets with no visible difference under the HRP. MIDI music is not necessary in any way, so it can be removed without consequence. Sound effects can be ripped from FreeDoom. Voilà, you've got FreeDookie.

[Danukem]

Hendricks266, on 26 July 2011 - 11:17 PM, said:

The gameplay is bad.

How did they manage to fuck up the gameplay? I thought the whole point was to have identical gameplay with replacement sprites and sounds.

[E.C.S]

DeeperThought, on 26 July 2011 - 11:23 PM, said:

How did they manage to fuck up the gameplay? I thought the whole point was to have identical gameplay with replacement sprites and sounds.

Well, maybe it isn't the gameplay, it's the feel to play the game, it's... different and doesn't have that "Doom feeling". I feels like a generic shooter game maybe.

[Micky C]

Hendricks266, on 26 July 2011 - 11:17 PM, said:

For another thing, there's no point to FreeDuke. The Duke Nukem personality is a copyrighted character, formerly to 3D Realms (Apogee Software Ltd.), and now to Gearbox. Without Duke, all you have is another generic shooter. It would be better to build your own game from the ground up on the BUILD engine, or ask Ken if you can base it off of Ken-Build, his fully functioning tech demo game. If you want that, go play FreeDoom.

While I agree that the feel would be completely different and therefore not as fun, let's not forget that Duke Nukem 3D had great gameplay, great level design, and great artwork. More than anything it's the latter 3 which are going to be the problem imitating rather than Duke's personality. The standard for level design has gone up considerably since the game was originally released, so you'd need some kick-ass mappers and a lot of motivation to pull off a worthy level pack. On the other hand, if you make the levels with the same standard as the original maps, it more than likely won't be fun at all.

[Martin]

DeeperThought, on 26 July 2011 - 10:36 PM, said:

But if all you are suggesting is to make some non-Duke game using EDuke32, then why talk about Freedoom at all? And why name the thread "Freeduke32"? You've kind of started off on the wrong foot, by confusing us.Also, you don't seem to be aware of the free TCs that already exist.

Because the idea was to include a pack-in game with the engine which contains no copyright. Freedoom is a prime example of this. I called the thread "Freeduke32" because I was referencing Freedoom and how I like their concept but not their execution, and Freeduke32 rhymes with EDuke32. You keep saying 'confusing us', but nobody else is saying that. Speak for yourself! I'm not particularly familiar with the TC scene. From what I do know, most of them seem to crash and burn long before they become anything worth looking at. Amirite?

Plagman, on 26 July 2011 - 10:51 PM, said:

Even though it appears that's not what the OP is talking about, there was a project of making free game resources to use with the Duke3D client and gameplay, but 3DR C&Ded the author anyway. It was leilei over at the JonoF forums, there's the thread with screenshots: http://www.jonof.id....hp?topic=1437.0

Awesome post. Shame 3DR nerfed that one. I mean, it does look like a Duke clone, but I want it just because it was cancelled. I'm guessing the idea behind Dave3D was for people to be able to play user maps without needing 3DR's software?

Hendricks266, on 26 July 2011 - 11:17 PM, said:

For another thing, there's no point to FreeDuke. The Duke Nukem personality is a copyrighted character, formerly to 3D Realms (Apogee Software Ltd.), and now to Gearbox. Without Duke, all you have is another generic shooter.

I don't agree, and don't think it's all that black & white. Without Duke, you still had one of the most clever shooting games of the day. Inventive weapons, awesome engine (at the time), and great gameplay.

Hendricks266, on 26 July 2011 - 11:17 PM, said:

It would be better to build your own game from the ground up on the BUILD engine, or ask Ken if you can base it off of Ken-Build, his fully functioning tech demo game.

Wasn't that what I was saying? As for Ken-Build, does it run on EDuke32?

Hendricks266, on 26 July 2011 - 11:17 PM, said:

Finally, as stated before, the HRP basically serves as FreeDuke, at least for non-8-bit artwork, except that 3D Realms gave us permission to use the Duke Nukem likeness, all the original game's content, and specific things like the title screen. (A notable exception was the 3D Realms logo, which was prohibited.) You can write a script to analyze the original art files and output defintions for dummytiles with offsets with no visible difference under the HRP. MIDI music is not necessary in any way, so it can be removed without consequence. Sound effects can be ripped from FreeDoom. Voilà, you've got FreeDookie.

But can you run it without 3DR's duke.grp file? I think you might have been saying "Yes" to that in the part I made italic. Unfortunately, I don't have a clue what you're talking about there. You can't just come in here with your fancy shmancy 'dummytiles' and 'offsets', throwing your big college words around. You and your book learnings...

Micky C, on 26 July 2011 - 11:36 PM, said:

While I agree that the feel would be completely different and therefore not as fun, let's not forget that Duke Nukem 3D had great gameplay, great level design, and great artwork. More than anything it's the latter 3 which are going to be the problem imitating rather than Duke's personality. The standard for level design has gone up considerably since the game was originally released, so you'd need some kick-ass mappers and a lot of motivation to pull off a worthy level pack. On the other hand, if you make the levels with the same standard as the original maps, it more than likely won't be fun at all.

I suspect you're right. Perhaps some different environments other than urban and space would help in this area. All the amazing level design in the world counts for nothing if it all looks the same. Anyone care to share a level which they think is mind-blowing? Show a video or link to the grp.

[Micky C]

Martin, on 27 July 2011 - 12:36 AM, said:

I'm not particularly familiar with the TC scene. From what I do know, most of them seem to crash and burn long before they become anything worth looking at. Amirite?

Three free games (TCs) that use the eduke32 engine that I can think of off the top of my head are Starship Troopers TC, Imagination World, and WGRealms 2. These are 3 very high quality pieces of work and each serve to do exactly what you've described; making a game which doesn't involve copyright and have different style levels to the original game. WGRealms 2 was first released in 2009, and it's still being worked on as we speak 2 years later. That's how popular it is, and maybe you should give some of these TCs a try, you might enjoy them

Martin, on 27 July 2011 - 12:36 AM, said:

You can't just come in here with your fancy shmancy 'dummytiles' and 'offsets', throwing your big college words around. You and your book learnings...

Oh boy, it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about in terms of mapping, or at least modding. This isn't just another idea thread where you expect everyone else to do all the work is it?

[Hendricks266]

Martin, on 27 July 2011 - 12:36 AM, said:

I don't agree, and don't think it's all that black & white. Without Duke, you still had one of the most clever shooting games of the day. Inventive weapons, awesome engine (at the time), and great gameplay.
Wasn't that what I was saying? As for Ken-Build, does it run on EDuke32?

Duke Nukem 3D and Ken-Build are absolutely distinct other than the fact that they hook into the BUILD engine. As TX once said, it's like comparing Chrome on your desktop and Safari on your iPhone just because they both use the WebKit rendering engine. Now, EDuke32 does have an improved BUILD engine that with some modification Ken-Build could use, but as far as Ken-Build running directly in Todd Replogle's tin can, aluminum foil, and condom-built car, it won't happen.

Really though, it's probably no more worth it to use Ken-Build than to wade through Todd's shit swamp, because even without the assets the game still does have the feeling and hard-coded weapons and enemies, which to really qualify as FreeDuke would have to either be made less exactly like Duke within the Duke gameland, or imitated from scratch within the Ken-Build gameland.

Martin, on 27 July 2011 - 12:36 AM, said:

But can you run it without 3DR's duke.grp file?

If you did what I said, plus make new maps.

Martin, on 27 July 2011 - 12:36 AM, said:

Unfortunately, I don't have a clue what you're talking about there. You can't just come in here with your fancy shmancy 'dummytiles' and 'offsets', throwing your big college words around. You and your book learnings...

I'm gonna BOLT your ass and then (double ***) Bmalloc(sizeof(*yourmom) + 1);

[Helixhorned]

Micky C, on 27 July 2011 - 12:55 AM, said:

Three free games (TCs) that use the eduke32 engine that I can think of off the top of my head are Starship Troopers TC, Imagination World, and WGRealms 2. These are 3 very high quality pieces of work and each serve to do exactly what you've described; making a game which doesn't involve copyright and have different style levels to the original game.

(emphasis added)

Isn't that a bit misleading? Sure it does involve copyright, it just belongs to the original authors. It's not like you could freely rip off and remix stuff from these mods without asking permission (*). Personally, I don't see a point to the Freeduke32 project as long as the original Duke3D game data is easily available by a legit way.

(*) a little rant on topic: why is it that mappers are so overly protective of their works? If I ever released a map myself, it would have usage permissions along the lines of "feel free to base a map on this one or to rip off from it, but always be clear about which parts are not original". I guess that if everyone knew how to properly give credit/reference stuff, people would be more permissive?

[Micky C]

Helixhorned, on 27 July 2011 - 04:16 AM, said:

(*) a little rant on topic: why is it that mappers are so overly protective of their works? If I ever released a map myself, it would have usage permissions along the lines of "feel free to base a map on this one or to rip off from it, but always be clear about which parts are not original". I guess that if everyone knew how to properly give credit/reference stuff, people would be more permissive?

The thing about making a map is that it's a lot of work. It can take dozens upon dozens of hours, and sometimes over a hundred hours to make a good map. To put that much effort in, then to have somebody else just copy it and paste it into their own work with a second's effort is just a bit disheartening. There's also the issue that if a section is in more than one map, it's not unique anymore, and it loses something about it.

Edit: what I'm trying to say is your map is like your baby. When you nurture it into adulthood, you just don't want to see it go

[Helixhorned]

I understand that it's a lot of work very well, having worked on exactly one released map myself (that earlier statement should have been "... again") that was part of a TC. What I fail to see is how having it either duplicated or enhanced somehow lessens its own value. People do remixes of songs, so why not of maps? Basically, I believe that if people were inclined to allowing to do more with their creations, that would come to the benefit of everyone simply because there would be more maps, or maps that were long forgotten would be given a new life (yeah, that's kinda what DT does), or thousands of other possibilities...

edit: oh and sorry for going slightly OT

[Fox]

I suppose we can resize HRP images and rip graphics from HRP monsters. That would be 3/4 of the job done...

[Radar]

A free game that used EDuke32 but doesn't use any of Duke's assets? We already have that; WGRealms 2 baby! It definitely isn't just a "Duke rip-off", and it has very diverse levels. Not to mention it accurately describes what EDuke32 is capable of, since it uses way more advanced coding than the original game used. You have altfires for all weapons, magical powers, and amazing maps.

Martin, on 27 July 2011 - 12:36 AM, said:

I'm not particularly familiar with the TC scene. From what I do know, most of them seem to crash and burn long before they become anything worth looking at. Amirite?

No.

Starship Troopers is a good one. The code in that TC doesn't seem to be too complex. I played that whole TC through and didn't have one crash, and I don't even think it's possible. WGRealms 2 crashed way too much on its release, but these issues have been fixed and now I've been playing a lot of WGR2 in that past month, even downloading it on my friends' computers (who love it btw), and I've never had a single crash. I can't even think of one.

How about this, instead of taking people's word for it, play these awesome TC's yourself! They're free after all. Maybe then you will see that we have your freedukie thingy already made, and that we have several.

[Jimmy]

I'm with Helix. I don't care if someone else uses my work unless they give proper credit and give it justice, either by doing it just as well as me or hopefully better.

Regardless, 3DR was full of shit for sending LeiLei a C&D for Dave3D.

EDIT: Radar, Martin is actually right. As someone who's been around for a long time, I have seen more mods abandoned than finished. Also to clarify, SST and WGR2 don't fit into this idea. They're both full of content copyrighted by other people.

[Danukem]

Captain Awesome, on 27 July 2011 - 07:50 AM, said:

Also to clarify, SST and WGR2 don't fit into this idea. They're both full of content copyrighted by other people.

That's true, and so is Eddy Zykov's excellent Sonic 3D TC, the upcoming AMC TC, and others. In fact, I can't think of a single example of a released standalone TC using the Duke 3D engine which does not contain copyrighted material. I believe there are some being worked on (I'm pretty sure that Mblackwell has a few in the pipeline), but AFAIK none have seen the light of day. Certainly not recently. Even that awesome looking Jurassic Park TC that Muelsa is making from scratch is based on...Jurassic Park (although he could easily call it something else, and probably should).

@Helixhorned & Micky C: I tend to agree with Helix on this. Yes, maps are a ton of work but coding and modeling can be too, and no one has a problem with ripping code and models and putting them into their own mods. This community has a blatent double standard when it comes to copying work. It's not ok to rip from or modify someone's map, but it is ok to do that with anything else. IMO there should be one standard, which is that people can do what they like with this stuff, but full credit should be given to the original creator whenever possible. Also, I think that it's very impolite to rip from something that has been released recently. The original author should have an opportunity to enjoy exclusivity for a while before someone starts copying from his stuff.

[Radar]

I thought by "crash and burn" he meant that the executable crashes the game, but now I see he is talking about development. I read his post wrong, and in that case he is most definitely right.

[Jblade]

As a mapper/coder/bad-sprite-artist, I can honestly say I don't mind people at all using any of my code or any of the art I've done (that includes weapon stuff, although I would hope they'd modify at least a little) in their own projects. Maps on the other hand are different....I don't mind people using the standalone maps I've made as bases for other projects (even though that's just Wonderful Christmas time and repent) but I wouldn't want people using maps from IW or my ones from AMC TC as a base for anything. It's difficult for me to explain but I consider my TC maps more....important to me personally - I built them to fit into a specific world and narrative (for lack of a better word) I don't mind Dan using Wonderful Christmas Time for whatever purpose he might want, nor do I mind other people maybe building on it (and the same goes for Repent) simply because I see it simply as a Duke usermap. My stuff from AMC TC and IW is much more important though since they actually have story and background behind it. It will always be the area I've built it to be, and seeing another person using it seperated from that would make me feel a bit weird.

[Jimmy]

DeeperThought, on 27 July 2011 - 08:59 AM, said:

That's true, and so is Eddy Zykov's excellent Sonic 3D TC, the upcoming AMC TC, and others. In fact, I can't think of a single example of a released standalone TC using the Duke 3D engine which does not contain copyrighted material. I believe there are some being worked on (I'm pretty sure that Mblackwell has a few in the pipeline), but AFAIK none have seen the light of day. Certainly not recently. Even that awesome looking Jurassic Park TC that Muelsa is making from scratch is based on...Jurassic Park (although he could easily call it something else, and probably should).

@Helixhorned & Micky C: I tend to agree with Helix on this. Yes, maps are a ton of work but coding and modeling can be too, and no one has a problem with ripping code and models and putting them into their own mods. This community has a blatent double standard when it comes to copying work. It's not ok to rip from or modify someone's map, but it is ok to do that with anything else. IMO there should be one standard, which is that people can do what they like with this stuff, but full credit should be given to the original creator whenever possible. Also, I think that it's very impolite to rip from something that has been released recently. The original author should have an opportunity to enjoy exclusivity for a while before someone starts copying from his stuff.

I don't think quite that many people understand the whole copyright thing, which is why I said what I said, not to particularly pick out either mod. I've nothing against copyright infringement however, I think that copyright is a load of bologna in the first place and as an autonomous citizen I disregard it. I think the closest to a non-infringing standalone mod is Zombie Crisis.

Also, I don't think there should be a community standard. Some people have reservations about their work, and as long as they're open about it, I don't really have a problem with it as long as they're fair in their reasoning.

James, on 27 July 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:

As a mapper/coder/bad-sprite-artist, I can honestly say I don't mind people at all using any of my code or any of the art I've done (that includes weapon stuff, although I would hope they'd modify at least a little) in their own projects. Maps on the other hand are different....I don't mind people using the standalone maps I've made as bases for other projects (even though that's just Wonderful Christmas time and repent) but I wouldn't want people using maps from IW or my ones from AMC TC as a base for anything. It's difficult for me to explain but I consider my TC maps more....important to me personally - I built them to fit into a specific world and narrative (for lack of a better word) I don't mind Dan using Wonderful Christmas Time for whatever purpose he might want, nor do I mind other people maybe building on it (and the same goes for Repent) simply because I see it simply as a Duke usermap. My stuff from AMC TC and IW is much more important though since they actually have story and background behind it. It will always be the area I've built it to be, and seeing another person using it seperated from that would make me feel a bit weird.

I think you have an issue of people splitting up a whole. Taking a Duke3D usermap is different because that's the universe it was built for. I wonder what you would think if someone used your map to make a usermap for that respective mod.

[Jblade]

Quote

I think you have an issue of people splitting up a whole. Taking a Duke3D usermap is different because that's the universe it was built for. I wonder what you would think if someone used your map to make a usermap for that respective mod.

That's a good point. The Duke levels I've done are a self-contained whole and I really do just see them as levels and an excuse for gameplay. Actually I think it's more that I feel more protective of my levels that I feel are more important story-wise. For example, take IW - I wouldn't really mind if people took the levels from say the first 3 episodes and released levels based on them, since even though I spruced them up I built them at a time where I was just literally building room after room without thinking about maintaining a sense of place. They're all really just long hallways and from what I see they don't really represent anything. The levels in episode 4 however are different; with a few exceptions (notably the ancient time period of the second map, I wouldn't mind if somebody made a map based on that) I wouldn't really approve of people working off of those maps since they, in my mind, represent more important things in the narrative. The same thing goes for my AMC TC work.

Personally speaking I prefer people being more open to sharing resources and stuff - however I feel maps in a TC are different because in a way they're pretty much the meat of the experience. Of course I love the idea of sharing story elements and locations though; that's one of the things I want to accomplish with the AMC TC over the course of it's releases. It already takes elements from IW and Zaxtor's TC Oblivion and treats them and several other mods like they all existed in one timeline. There's plenty of ways to integrate other characters and ideas from other TC's however (WGR2's Jedrik for example would make a great ancestor for Merlijn and Maarten's characters lol!)

[Micky C]

James, I'm currently using one of the tracks you had in IW as the track for my WGRealms 2 map. The atmosphere suits perfectly, and the map is reasonably close to completion. The track is Revolv.ogg and I really hope you don't mind. I have no idea who the original author of the song is.

[Kyanos]

eduke.com said:

EDuke32 lets you play that game called 'NAM' you saw at the dollar store 10 years ago

Really?? NAM?? WTF is that???
As far as mods or TCs go that's the only mention on the official website. Otherwise its just go buy Duke3D. IMHO you guys should talk more about Mods and just how far the game has come since the 90's. Maybe even throw in a link to someones TC if they are willing (an honor) and if it's not any infringement. I went 10 years without a computer or any knowledge of the existence of EDuke. I can't believe what you all have done with my most favorite game

[Jimmy]

James, on 27 July 2011 - 01:44 PM, said:

That's a good point. The Duke levels I've done are a self-contained whole and I really do just see them as levels and an excuse for gameplay. Actually I think it's more that I feel more protective of my levels that I feel are more important story-wise. For example, take IW - I wouldn't really mind if people took the levels from say the first 3 episodes and released levels based on them, since even though I spruced them up I built them at a time where I was just literally building room after room without thinking about maintaining a sense of place. They're all really just long hallways and from what I see they don't really represent anything. The levels in episode 4 however are different; with a few exceptions (notably the ancient time period of the second map, I wouldn't mind if somebody made a map based on that) I wouldn't really approve of people working off of those maps since they, in my mind, represent more important things in the narrative. The same thing goes for my AMC TC work.

Personally speaking I prefer people being more open to sharing resources and stuff - however I feel maps in a TC are different because in a way they're pretty much the meat of the experience. Of course I love the idea of sharing story elements and locations though; that's one of the things I want to accomplish with the AMC TC over the course of it's releases. It already takes elements from IW and Zaxtor's TC Oblivion and treats them and several other mods like they all existed in one timeline. There's plenty of ways to integrate other characters and ideas from other TC's however (WGR2's Jedrik for example would make a great ancestor for Merlijn and Maarten's characters lol!)

I was thinking more along the lines of someone using a map to show an alternate part of the story. This is just made up since I know as much about AMC TC as everyone else, but say that there is a city level where you play as your character, and then someone else used parts of that map to show an alternate story with a different character in the same place.

Drek, on 27 July 2011 - 06:23 PM, said:

Really?? NAM?? WTF is that???
As far as mods or TCs go that's the only mention on the official website. Otherwise its just go buy Duke3D. IMHO you guys should talk more about Mods and just how far the game has come since the 90's. Maybe even throw in a link to someones TC if they are willing (an honor) and if it's not any infringement. I went 10 years without a computer or any knowledge of the existence of EDuke. I can't believe what you all have done with my most favorite game

NAM was like a glorified Platoon. It used what one could call the earliest form of EDuke, the progenitor of EDuke32.

[Jblade]

Micky C, on 27 July 2011 - 03:29 PM, said:

James, I'm currently using one of the tracks you had in IW as the track for my WGRealms 2 map. The atmosphere suits perfectly, and the map is reasonably close to completion. The track is Revolv.ogg and I really hope you don't mind. I have no idea who the original author of the song is.

That's from S.T.A.L.K.E.R Clear sky

Quote

I was thinking more along the lines of someone using a map to show an alternate part of the story. This is just made up since I know as much about AMC TC as everyone else, but say that there is a city level where you play as your character, and then someone else used parts of that map to show an alternate story with a different character in the same place.

Oh, heh heh. I did write something saying that I wouldn't mind something like that, but I deleted that part since I thought I was typing too much. I like THAT idea; I've seen it many times in Half-life mods where they take a famous area from Half-life and build the parts of it you don't see (the add-on packs do this quite well too) to make Black Mesa feel like a real place.