[DavoX]

Not worth reading all this crap.

In DNF after you finish the game, you get the game's timeline of development.

It states that the single player was COMPLETED on NOVEMBER 2009. Read it? Two thousand nine. That's why Tryptich was so sure of a Spring 2010 Release.

[Mr.Deviance]

DavoX, on 12 June 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

Not worth reading all this crap.

In DNF after you finish the game, you get the game's timeline of development.

It states that the single player was COMPLETED on NOVEMBER 2009. Read it? Two thousand nine. That's why Tryptich was so sure of a Spring 2010 Release.

They should have released it in 2009 when it was done and port it to consoles later...

[Hank]

Mr.Deviance, on 12 June 2011 - 05:08 PM, said:

They should have released it in 2009 when it was done and port it to consoles later...

they could not - the link shows DNF box art
http://www.vgboxart....ever/?replies=3

I would have been happy with SP, but a lot of people love multiplayer, a lot.

[Kathy]

So what? It's a fan made box art since it has fake ESRB rating.

[MusicallyInspired]

That's totally fake. Nothing on VGBoxart is real. That's the point. It's all fan work. Some of it very professional. Most of it garbage. I have an account there myself.

[SavagE]

hmm They didnt have the money to release it in the first place.

[Fox Mulder]

Hmm, Hmm, where is it?

[Kathy]

That giant worm bothered me the whole game. We only get to see it in the boss battle, right?

[Mr.Deviance]

Helel, on 17 June 2011 - 12:06 AM, said:

That giant worm bothered me the whole game. We only get to see it in the boss battle, right?

From what I've heard that monster from the second video, has been cut entirely.

[Madmaxwell]

Mr.Deviance, on 17 June 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

From what I've heard that monster from the second video, has been cut entirely.

that looks like a subway station which I know was a planned level at some point, guessing it will be in the 15 pack.

[Kathy]

What's a 15 level dlc many are talking about? What is the source for this information?

[Serge]

Helel, on 17 June 2011 - 01:17 AM, said:

What's a 15 level dlc many are talking about? What is the source for this information?

Info have been found in some files of the game: http://www.eurogamer...er-dlc-detailed

[themaniacboy]

Mr.Deviance, on 17 June 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

From what I've heard that monster from the second video, has been cut entirely.

And i guess that will be included in the DLC.

[JamesCassidy]

You know, it is of no surprise that some of you would hate this game. I am not surprised at all seeing how you hated all the trailers and the promo ads. Why did you guys buy the game anyway when you all knew the game wasn't going to be good to you?

All I hear is whining now from a bunch of cynical assholes who think they know everything about the world. I don't even care if you neg mod me cause it means shit on the internet.

"Well I have a right to my opinion."

Oh and I don't? Yeah you do as much as anyone else does, but not everyone is going to agree with you. You don't care about them. You don't care that others may feel differently. You only care about yourself and no one is right other than you. You blame your own misfortunes on others even when it was your own stupidity that did it. THAT is my opinion of most of you here. Half of you expected the second coming of Jesus from this game and you got disappointed, but that's your fault. You knew what this game went through and you still over hyped yourselves.

"This doesn't play like Duke 3D"

Yeah, no games play like the old 90s games, because those formulas don't work anymore. Even Mario, who is as simple as it can get, has changed dramatically since the first game, but I don't hear people complaining that Super Mario Galaxy is nothing like Donkey Kong.

"Two weapon systems and regen health is consolized and is stupid."

Most FPSs today use limited weapon systems and regen health. Very few games still use the medkit formula because it slows the game down and as everyone says they hate "slow paced games." Also, DNF was originally a PC game that was ported to the consoles just recently. Wake up call, if the Ego health was going to be in there before the 360 or PS3 then it is not "consolized." Your argument is now invalid. I don't know what you guys want in games now-a-days because you don't know whether you want the old stuff or the new stuff and some of the old stuff cannot work in today's standards.

Also, like the guy said in the video, if you are given every single weapon in the game to use whenever you want, the game is too easy. The two gun system is there to challenge you. To think and maybe even provide an award or two. Today's FPSs at most have a 4 weapon system. I have rarely seen one exceed that, but console games CAN have multiple weapon systems. Look at Half-life two for the Xbox. It retained the full arsenal. Breakdown for the xbox 1 had it too. Bioshock is another. So it's not a console limitation, it is a developer choice.

"The game is slow-paced, but was short."

Really? I never got bored once in the game and I am still finding new stuff every time I replay. I racked up 9 hours on one playthrough on normal which is standard for most shooters. This is not an RPG where it could take you 50 plus hours to do everything and like I said some of you speed run through games instead of playing it. You want it to be like Duke 3D? Why not have it where you have to find certain three key cards for an hour each time you come across a locked door.

"Its too linear."

So was Duke 3D and Duke 1 and Duke 2 and 99% if the FPS on the market. Most Call of Duties are way shorter than Duke and have no puzzle games what so ever. Just run and gun. No where at any point in time does this game say "Free-roam." That's what pisses me off more. I don't mind linear games, but when you say "free-roam" and it isn't, that is the lie. This game is linear, but so is most other FPSs. No, don't give me this bullshit "Duke 3D allowed me to explore the area." So does DNF, but like Duke 3D you still have to get from point A to point B. Duke 3D was even more linear than DNF with the whole "find the keycard, find the door, go through it. Fight boss."

"They cut stuff from the game."

Yeah, EVERY developer has cut something from their game. Bungie cut shit from Halo. Epic cut a whole level out of Gears 2 and released it as DLC later. The level itself looked done, not sure why they cut it, but they did. Valve cut stuff too. We know we are getting DLC later down the road. Some sources say we will get more single-player levels and with the advancements of technology you can can get it to play on your game now. So I don't see why people are complaining about this. Why are you complaining about this? Seems like some of you guys just like to hear yourselves talk. (Talking to you Mr. Deviance. You're the worst than anyone here. +1 troll against a troll)

You know why they cut things from games?

Here is list I have heard from some developers.
-Couldn't refine it enough
-Pacing wasn't right.
-Time issues
-Balancing issues
-A.I. issues
-Story decisions

and this is just the short list. Every developer cuts things from games. Every developer.

DNF is a good game. I got what I wanted out of it and that was fun. Yeah, it has flaws and compared to most games it doesn't rack up, but it's no way a bad game. I have given this game to 10 people I know. Age ranging from 14 to 24. Only 2 of them were Duke fans. The rest were either too young or didn't play the past games. You know how many hated the game? None. In fact, 7 of them said it was a breath of fresh air compared to all the military shooters that came out. They laughed every step of the way and not one of them had a complaint. 10 random people. Are you going to say their opinions don't count cause they don't agree with you? Two of them thanked me for introducing them to this game.

You can hate the game from here to hell and yeah you are entitled to your opinion, but you are never....EVER.....entitled to be right and writing down in books "This is fact" because not everyone says it's true.

Some of you need to get your shit together though, because some of can't decide if it is too much like Duke 3D or not enough like Duke 3D. To me, it follows all the formulas of a Duke game. Shooting, puzzles, wise-cracking hero who always gets the hot babes. That's it and that's all I wanted and I got that.

Maybe if you guys stopped being shallow and cynical and stop comparing it to Duke 3D, you might enjoy the game a little bit better.

[Alithinos]

Fox Mulder, on 16 June 2011 - 11:13 PM, said:

Hmm, Hmm, where is it?

From the first video it looks like whenever you killed a monster you would get some kind of xp points.
There is also a "jetpack" button which means that jetpack would be playable in single player,and that it had its own button.
I think the decision they finally took,to turn on/off the jetpack with the same button you also use to move upwards when you use it is stupid. I press spacebar to get higher and the game turns my jetpack off and I fall down and loose lives.

Also in the first video we can spot that the game had an option to adjust mouse sensitivity with a bar.

[Alithinos]

Quote

You know, it is of no surprise that some of you would hate this game. I am not surprised at all seeing how you hated all the trailers and the promo ads. Why did you guys buy the game anyway when you all knew the game wasn't going to be good to you?

Are you talking to me who I am the thread starter ?

Quote

"This doesn't play like Duke 3D"
Yeah, no games play like the old 90s games, because those formulas don't work anymore. Even Mario, who is as simple as it can get, has changed dramatically since the first game, but I don't hear people complaining that Super Mario Galaxy is nothing like Donkey Kong.

You are bashing gameplay design choices just because you don't like them.
And its ironic because you whined about people doing the same thing on the same post.
It's quite reasonable for people to compare DNF with DN3D since DNF is right the next game in the series after DN3D.
What doesn't work anymore ? Secret rooms and levels ?
Of course they work. Developers where just lazy to add them.
Medkits always worked. You can't fix something that is not broken.
Regarding Mario,yes his games changed a lot through his 25 year old existence,but the CORE IDEAS behind the first game are there.
Mario still runs and jumps to platforms and saves a Princess.
He gets to secret rooms in Mario Galaxy 2,as he did on Super Mario Bros 1,2,3
The only big change in Mario's gameplay is that nowdays his games have collectible stars that add to the game's replay value.
You know what ? Return to Castle Wolfenstein came 2 years after Halo,and it still used medkits and it was awesome.
Another Wolfenstein came in 2009,and also had secret rooms and collectible gold,and let you carry all the weapons you could find and the only thing that added was regenerative health,but it was still an awesome game.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games come out and make use of medkits,and they have very good gameplay and they are fun.
What systems and mechanics are the ones you talk about that doesn't work anymore ?

Quote

"Two weapon systems and regen health is consolized and is stupid."
Most FPSs today use limited weapon systems and regen health. Very few games still use the medkit formula because it slows the game down and as everyone says they hate "slow paced games." Also, DNF was originally a PC game that was ported to the consoles just recently. Wake up call, if the Ego health was going to be in there before the 360 or PS3 then it is not "consolized." Your argument is now invalid. I don't know what you guys want in games now-a-days because you don't know whether you want the old stuff or the new stuff and some of the old stuff cannot work in today's standards.

Since 1992 that Wolfenstein 3d came out and invented the FPS genre,there was a pattern in the genre.
Every 1 to 2 years a game would come out that would make us go "wow" because it would offer never before seen things,and the genre was involving very fast.
Wolfenstein 3d invented the genre in 1992.
Doom came in 1993 and offered texture based walls,and height differences.
Duke Nukem 3d came in 1996 and brought the abilities to look up and down,and jump.
Goldeneye came in 1998 and brought mission-based gameplay.
Perfect Dark came in 2000 and was one of the first games that took a cinematic way in FPSs,having cutscenes with voiceovers to present the game's story,and it also added secondary weapon factions.
Halo came out in 2001 and brought health regeneration and the weapons limit.

Until Halo the FPS genre was involving fast and almost every 2 years a game would come out that would be considered innovative and would bring new features that would become industry standards.
After Halo,the evolution line stopped.For 10 years FPS developers compete with each other who will make their game play more like Halo,and there was never such a negativity in trying new things.
For 10 years all the games we get play exactly the same,exactly like Halo.
Many people expected DNF to bring back health packs,a feature that despite being old,is missing from the genre for like 10 years,and after 10 years of absence it would actually feel fresh.
And there are many people who liked medkit based gameplay.
Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory,Quake 3/Live and Counter Strike are games without health regeneration,and there are still people playing these games online because of their gameplay.
If you download RTCW:ET today,you will find over 100+ servers online with people playing it despite its 10 year old graphics,BECAUSE OF ITS GAMEPLAY.
Call of Duty games and alike have such a gameplay that players need constant (almost yearly) updates to keep playing them.
What those people you are bashing would like,is a game that has oldskool gameplay but modern graphics and technical department.

Quote

Also, like the guy said in the video, if you are given every single weapon in the game to use whenever you want, the game is too easy. The two gun system is there to challenge you. To think and maybe even provide an award or two. Today's FPSs at most have a 4 weapon system. I have rarely seen one exceed that, but console games CAN have multiple weapon systems. Look at Half-life two for the Xbox. It retained the full arsenal. Breakdown for the xbox 1 had it too. Bioshock is another. So it's not a console limitation, it is a developer choice.

Yup,it's a developer choice of course.
I won't say if it's good or bad,it's just a choice that provides a certain gameplay that some people like and some not.It's a matter of taste though,and we can't judge other people's tastes because every person is different and though we have different tastes.

Quote

"The game is slow-paced, but was short."
Really? I never got bored once in the game and I am still finding new stuff every time I replay. I racked up 9 hours on one playthrough on normal which is standard for most shooters. This is not an RPG where it could take you 50 plus hours to do everything and like I said some of you speed run through games instead of playing it. You want it to be like Duke 3D? Why not have it where you have to find certain three key cards for an hour each time you come across a locked door.

It was kinda short.
DN3D had 40 levels instead of 23,and it would take you more time to complete a DN3D level than a DNF level.
After so many years some people expected that for the time that passed developers where actually working on content.And when you get a 14 year old game that has less content than a 2 year old game,you get surprised.

Quote

"Its too linear."
So was Duke 3D and Duke 1 and Duke 2 and 99% if the FPS on the market. Most Call of Duties are way shorter than Duke and have no puzzle games what so ever. Just run and gun. No where at any point in time does this game say "Free-roam." That's what pisses me off more. I don't mind linear games, but when you say "free-roam" and it isn't, that is the lie. This game is linear, but so is most other FPSs. No, don't give me this bullshit "Duke 3D allowed me to explore the area." So does DNF, but like Duke 3D you still have to get from point A to point B. Duke 3D was even more linear than DNF with the whole "find the keycard, find the door, go through it. Fight boss."

Have you ever played DN3D ?
DN3D offered many alternative routes in its levels.
You could go the "straight ahead in your face" way,or blow up a wall and get to the exit by another route,or jetpack your way and get to the upper floor of that building without finding the keycard.
There where also secret rooms that supported exploration,and added lots to its replay value.
DN3D had many rooms that wouldn't get you to the end of the level,but they where there for you to explore,and made the world feel more believe-able because you wouldn't get the impression that the game's world was created by God in order to favor Duke in his quest and show him the way..
It made the game feel much more like real.

Quote

"They cut stuff from the game."
Yeah, EVERY developer has cut something from their game. Bungie cut shit from Halo. Epic cut a whole level out of Gears 2 and released it as DLC later. The level itself looked done, not sure why they cut it, but they did. Valve cut stuff too. We know we are getting DLC later down the road. Some sources say we will get more single-player levels and with the advancements of technology you can can get it to play on your game now. So I don't see why people are complaining about this. Why are you complaining about this? Seems like some of you guys just like to hear yourselves talk. (Talking to you Mr. Deviance. You're the worst than anyone here. +1 troll against a troll)

You know why they cut things from games?

Here is list I have heard from some developers.
-Couldn't refine it enough
-Pacing wasn't right.
-Time issues
-Balancing issues
-A.I. issues
-Story decisions

and this is just the short list. Every developer cuts things from games. Every developer.

Yeah other developers cut things from their games too.
But it's different when they show you stuff that supposedly will be in the game to hype you,and advertise the game to you,and they doesn't tell you that most of what they showed to you won't be in the game.
Fo example in 2008 3D Realms gave us a screenshot of a girl trapped in that green alien substance and her vagina and asshole where visible.When the game was released we found out that they put bikinis on them.
When somebody advertise to you a product showing of features and you find out that most of the promised features are not there,you feel like you've been jerked and cheated.

Quote

DNF is a good game. I got what I wanted out of it and that was fun. Yeah, it has flaws and compared to most games it doesn't rack up, but it's no way a bad game. I have given this game to 10 people I know. Age ranging from 14 to 24. Only 2 of them were Duke fans. The rest were either too young or didn't play the past games. You know how many hated the game? None. In fact, 7 of them said it was a breath of fresh air compared to all the military shooters that came out. They laughed every step of the way and not one of them had a complaint. 10 random people. Are you going to say their opinions don't count cause they don't agree with you? Two of them thanked me for introducing them to this game.

Of course there will be people who like the game.
It just wasn't what most of the people expected from it.

Quote

Some of you need to get your shit together though, because some of can't decide if it is too much like Duke 3D or not enough like Duke 3D. To me, it follows all the formulas of a Duke game. Shooting, puzzles, wise-cracking hero who always gets the hot babes. That's it and that's all I wanted and I got that.

No these are not all the formulas of a Duke game. DN3D didn't had puzzles at all.
DN3D had mazy complex levels,secret rooms,secret areas,no weapon limitation,numerous levels,medkits,and a depressing post apocalyptic feel.

[pulse85]

It's because of idiotic fanboys who can't see what's right in front of them we get this kind of "quality". They obviously cut the levels to repack as DLC and sell for who knows how much later on. It makes me laugh when i see idiots bragging they bought 9 BOSE's or whatever when this game is such a steaming pile of ****, gearbox must be laughing all the way to the office and back, worst part being ofcourse that after they launched it they ignore every ****** pc complaint. No editor, no advanced options, no console, no patches to fix gore and everything else.

Good thing we got people like Mr. Deviance who are bothered to fix other people's mess and for free on top of it all.

[Mad Max RW]

pulse85, on 17 June 2011 - 05:45 AM, said:

... worst part being ofcourse that after they launched it they ignore every ****** pc complaint. No editor, no advanced options, no console, no patches to fix gore and everything else.

In Gearbox's defense (I know, crazy of me, right?) it's only been 1 week since the game's launch and they spent much of that time at E3. If a major patch (or at least upcoming patch notes) isn't released after a month then we know something is fucked up.

[Kathy]

Alithinos, on 17 June 2011 - 04:05 AM, said:

Medkits always worked. You can't fix something that is not broken.

Medkit hunting was also an issue. Badass Duke hunting for some bandage in the crate.

Quote

You know what ? Return to Castle Wolfenstein came 2 years after Halo,and it still used medkits and it was awesome.

You know what? Halo: Combat Evolved had medkits.

Quote

Duke Nukem 3d came in 1996 and brought the abilities to look up and down,and jump.

WOW!!!

Quote

Perfect Dark came in 2000 and was one of the first games that took a cinematic way in FPSs

Yep, and then Valve made Half-Life, right?

Quote

Halo came out in 2001 and brought health regeneration and the weapons limit.

There was also a little thing called "vehicles".

Quote

Until Halo the FPS genre was involving fast and almost every 2 years a game would come out that would be considered innovative and would bring new features that would become industry standards.

Because the genre itself was in its infancy; partly because of technical limitations.

Quote

Fo example in 2008 3D Realms gave us a screenshot of a girl trapped in that green alien substance and her vagina and asshole where visible.When the game was released we found out that they put bikinis on them.

3dRealms never released such a screenshot.

Quote

No these are not all the formulas of a Duke game. DN3D didn't had puzzles at all.

It did. Firing a button to be able to jump to other platform or using a device to lift Duke in place of a barrel.

[Tetsuo]

Shadow Warrior had vehicles and so did other FPS games before Halo. Tribes, Operation Flashpoint, probably Terminator Future Shock. Probably others I can't think of right now. There are threads on the internet just on that subject.

Rise of The Triad had a weapons limit. I'm pretty sure Marathon did too.

BTW, the "puzzles" in Duke3D (if you can call them that) like using a mirror to shrink yourself so you can get through an area or a wall mounted shrinker. It also had some simple jumping puzzles in some areas. Also using the "destructable" areas.
But of course they expanded on all that in the sequel. I thought DNF was pretty light on puzzles though as well to be honest but there where more blatant ones than in Duke3D.

[SavagE]

counter-strike has vehicles :D:D:D:D:D


but yes, halo vastly popularized vehicle sections, especially those with turrets on board.

[Tetsuo]

Which you couldn't even aim while you are driving. I like how other games did that better to be honest... especially later games like Borderlands.

[SavagE]

well, it's kinda normal that u cant aim while driving... You either shoot or drive.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Tetsuo, on 17 June 2011 - 11:26 PM, said:

Rise of The Triad had a weapons limit. I'm pretty sure Marathon did too.

As I recall, Rise Of The Triad lets you carry up to two pistols, an MP-40, and a single explosive weapon all at the same time (though by the time you get the MP-40, you will never need to use the pistols). The explosive weapons were all one-use only and severely limited in ammunition. Oh, and some levels, there would be explosive guns strewn all over the floor, like 9x9 squares of firebombs, flamewalls, heatseekers, drunk missiles and the like. That kind of arcadey madness is, I think, incomparable to the weapon limitations found in later first-person shooters.

Oh, and the God Mode powerup temporarily takes all of your weapons away and gives you the hand of God instead, which essentially vaporizes every enemy, so...

[Tetsuo]

It's still a weapons limit with basically 3 slots (the dual\single pistols can be counted as one) the MP-40 and one explosive weapon. As opposed to being able to carry and switch to fists, pistol, shotgun, chaingun, chainsaw, rocket launcher, plasma gun, BFG or more like in most other FPS games of the time. Like Duke3D which had Like a lot of things more than my doom example. Back then though that type of thing (like in ROTT) wasn't exactly the same as in later games but it was the start of it. They even had a button to switch between your MP-40 and your explosive weapon just like you switch between your two weapons in a game like DNF which once you get your MP40 for the most part the pistols are obsolete so you are mostly doing that. Rise of The Triad didn't even have a DEDICATED melee attack. Although one thing that helped make it seem less restricted is the fact that the bullet weapons had infinite ammo.

DNF had weapons strewn about the floor in some levels. Halo, not so much but still. Powerups don't factor into it because later games with more severe weapons limitations have powerups. Do you consider the beer and steroids in DNF to be weapons?

[MusicallyInspired]

ROTT brought the looking up and down feature before Duke3D.

[Tetsuo]

Oh yeah and only having 5 shots per explosive weapon is a weapons limit compared to being able to carry 60 in a game like doom

[Raziel]

One word... DLC. Seriously though, if you look at the Triptych trailer from 2009, it doesn't look like we lost anything that was in that trailer. So I'm guessing that all the stuff that was removed was removed before that point in time and was most likely the stuff that was not ready for commercial use. You have to remember that these guys were expecting extra funding, but instead (thanks to the lawsuit) they went from 30-odd people to 10 people with absolutely no funding and strict time frames in which to get the single player campaign done. Single player had to be complete for a few reasons, first, it was good currency in the lawsuit for 3DR to be able to say, "look, the single player game is finished!", and of course to persuade someone to buy it (I don't believe Randy would have bought the game if it wasn't in a state where at least the single player was done).

In order to meet these demands given their lack of resources, they most likely just took the bits that were polished enough and hacked together a game from it that could be played from start to finish. I'm sorry, but that's really how I suspect things went down. To put it another way, I think we pretty much got the nerfed version of DNF. The good or bad news, depending on how you look at it, is that everything that wasn't ready for the SP campaign can now be completed relatively easily as DLC now that DNF is a real game that is making money. It justifies (from a publisher point of view) funding them to go back to all of that content and polishing it up to a point where it can be sold as DLC. Since a lot of the work is already completed for it, it would be a pretty cheap DLC to do and Gearbox have plenty of experience with doing expansions, so I'm sure they can and will do this.

I wouldn't say they cheated us by cutting stuff out, rather, I'd say they didn't have the resources to get all of that content in a decent state and so they pretty much used what they could, and just polished what they could handle on their own. Let's hope the inevitable DLC won't be as linear.

[pulse85]

Considering how they "polished" DNF after taking it from 3d realms, i rather they keep the DLC to themselves, and by polish i mean break gameplay and graphic elements like the goddamn decals, better lighting and shadows.

[Mad Max RW]

Raziel, on 19 June 2011 - 03:45 AM, said:

I wouldn't say they cheated us by cutting stuff out, rather, I'd say they didn't have the resources to get all of that content in a decent state and so they pretty much used what they could, and just polished what they could handle on their own. Let's hope the inevitable DLC won't be as linear.

They had the resources (money) to buy the intellectual property, so claiming they didn't have the resources to finish the game is a weak argument.