[PokeThePower]

SavagE, on 11 June 2011 - 06:54 PM, said:

Charlie - was the previous iterations of Forever meant to be more open-structured within levels?

Depends on the level, but in general I would say they were more open, yeah... but they still were more focused paths than Duke 3D or Doom.

kaisersoze, on 12 June 2011 - 01:38 AM, said:

Can't wait until Monday night!

See ya on XBox Live or Steam soon.

[BraveTriforcer]

Tell me, Charlie. Would you say DNF of today has become something that 3DR would make of their own decision? Not because other games were doing stuff like DNF decided to do and because those games made money? Because DNF has definitely gone in a completely diferent direction when you look at the recent old build footage. Sorry if I sound vague, bit this is a really hard question to word properly.

[SavagE]

thanks for that charlie! There is one other thing that bugs me - The Strip. One could clearly roam it in 2001 iteration, on a motorbike for instance - but what was the purpose? We had to drive to the desert or something? To hoover dam? And what was the role of the dragon?

[BraveTriforcer]

SavagE, on 12 June 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

thanks for that charlie! There is one other thing that bugs me - The Strip. One could clearly roam it in 2001 iteration, on a motorbike for instance - but what was the purpose? We had to drive to the desert or something? To hoover dam? And what was the role of the dragon?

To breath fire and go "ROAR I'm a dragon, bitches!".

[Malgon]

^ Haha! On a serious note, I believe the dragon was part of one of the casinos, as a huge display or something like that. Think I read about that on the 3DR forums a long time back.

[SavagE]

and what about infamous Area 51 which was about to be included in DNF? There was even a screenshot released with a couple of ufo's

http://g4g.pl/files/....jpg?1304174612

and a chainsaw, what has happened to it?

[thelegend4ever]

Well after talking personally to Joe, George, and Scott, they took out alot of those things (including Bombshell, Gus was never actually going to be in the game), like thoe motorcycle because "technology kept changing and those physics wouldn't fit in with the new eningies". Interesting.

[Kathy]

That's ancient history, man.

[PokeThePower]

BraveTriforcer, on 12 June 2011 - 03:42 PM, said:

Tell me, Charlie. Would you say DNF of today has become something that 3DR would make of their own decision? Not because other games were doing stuff like DNF decided to do and because those games made money? Because DNF has definitely gone in a completely diferent direction when you look at the recent old build footage. Sorry if I sound vague, bit this is a really hard question to word properly.

Ummm.... well different eras of development have clearly different styles of development.

So I think the DNF that we fans are getting is the DNF of the 2006 to 2009 era of development.

Sorry to leave it vague but time has a funny effect on things.

SavagE, on 12 June 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

thanks for that charlie! There is one other thing that bugs me - The Strip. One could clearly roam it in 2001 iteration, on a motorbike for instance - but what was the purpose? We had to drive to the desert or something? To hoover dam? And what was the role of the dragon?

In Duke's world... what purpose is more important than being cool or being interesting?

SavagE, on 13 June 2011 - 05:20 AM, said:

and what about infamous Area 51 which was about to be included in DNF? There was even a screenshot released with a couple of ufo's

http://g4g.pl/files/....jpg?1304174612

and a chainsaw, what has happened to it?

Time... the nemesis of all of us in the end.

thelegend4ever, on 13 June 2011 - 05:30 AM, said:

Well after talking personally to Joe, George, and Scott, they took out alot of those things (including Bombshell, Gus was never actually going to be in the game), like thoe motorcycle because "technology kept changing and those physics wouldn't fit in with the new eningies". Interesting.

Hmmmm.... *shrug*

[OpenMaw]

Does DNF start the way it was going to start in 2001? Or was that an idea that came later?

[SavagE]

I guess the Area 51 was meant to be included when dr. proton was still in the plot ;D


and how do you find the game itself charlie? I'll give it something like a 6/10 and regret that it is not 2001 iteration...

[themaniacboy]

SavagE, on 14 June 2011 - 06:04 AM, said:

I guess the Area 51 was meant to be included when dr. proton was still in the plot ;D


and how do you find the game itself charlie? I'll give it something like a 6/10 and regret that it is not 2001 iteration...

That sucks, i think it deserves 8/10 for Duke Nukem, the level design, the humor, the enemies and the weapons.

[SavagE]

well, the level design is mostly bad, incorporating frustration, rather than joy.


Charlie - one fundamental question - how was the 2001 plot different than the present one? We didnt see any regular aliens aside from octabrain - only mutated people with tentacles. Could you explain?

[ferran275]

SavagE, on 14 June 2011 - 04:07 PM, said:

Charlie - one fundamental question - how was the 2001 plot different than the present one?

What I think Savage is TRYING to say is, how did we go from a good plot, to none at all?

[BraveTriforcer]

ferran275, on 14 June 2011 - 09:55 PM, said:

What I think Savage is TRYING to say is, how did we go from a good plot, to none at all?

How do we know that the game had a plot back then that was worth writing home about?

[PokeThePower]

SavagE, on 14 June 2011 - 06:04 AM, said:

and how do you find the game itself charlie? I'll give it something like a 6/10 and regret that it is not 2001 iteration...

I'm always going to be partial to the 2001ish era as well (and release window, heh). I'm trying to avoid talking too much about the game itself or making comparisons between pre-2006 and post-2006. That can go into messy territory where it's easy to be misunderstood or taken out of context.

SavagE, on 14 June 2011 - 04:07 PM, said:

Charlie - one fundamental question - how was the 2001 plot different than the present one? We didnt see any regular aliens aside from octabrain - only mutated people with tentacles. Could you explain?

Regarding almost anything in Duke... imagine it like the color spectrum. Red is *definitely* not Blue. However you can see a smooth transition from Red to Blue when looking at the colors all together. That's a lot like the story. As above, I don't want to get into detail about info that hasn't been released yet (I'll see what's in the art book when it arrives)... or get into specific comparisons.

It was different, and there was a lot more to it planned. But (and this is important) it also didn't ship for whatever reason... so it's kinda moot.

ferran275, on 14 June 2011 - 09:55 PM, said:

What I think Savage is TRYING to say is, how did we go from a good plot, to none at all?

Cutting is shipping?

BraveTriforcer, on 14 June 2011 - 10:03 PM, said:

How do we know that the game had a plot back then that was worth writing home about?

I definitely wrote home about it.

[Jimmy]

I remember reading the biggest problem, especially in the early days is that George would play every new game or watch every new movie that came out. As soon as he saw a feature or theme he would like, he would figure out a way to work it into the game. So things kept getting bigger and more convoluted and you'd have to stop what you were doing to fit such and such in there. I think this could account for the epic feeling of the 1998 and 2001 games, because what was 'planned' truly was epic.

[MYHOUSE.MAP]

Captain Awesome, on 15 June 2011 - 08:57 AM, said:

I remember reading the biggest problem, especially in the early days is that George would play every new game or watch every new movie that came out. As soon as he saw a feature or theme he would like, he would figure out a way to work it into the game. So things kept getting bigger and more convoluted and you'd have to stop what you were doing to fit such and such in there. I think this could account for the epic feeling of the 1998 and 2001 games, because what was 'planned' truly was epic.

With the 2001 trailer, I thought it was the music and editing that made it epic. There are a lot of vehicle segments, which people now penalize, and a lot of scripted sequences, which are fine, but I'm sure there'd be some griping about it.

I mean, I like the 2001 trailer, but I don't think the actual game would've been as epic.

[Jimmy]

I didn't only mean the trailers, which the music did have a huge part in, but also the screenshots and random tidbits of information we did get. I suspect the old planned game would have been longer than the released version, or even the plans of later stages of development.

[LkMax]

MYHOUSE.MAP, on 15 June 2011 - 10:01 AM, said:

With the 2001 trailer, I thought it was the music and editing that made it epic. There are a lot of vehicle segments, which people now penalize, and a lot of scripted sequences, which are fine, but I'm sure there'd be some griping about it.

I mean, I like the 2001 trailer, but I don't think the actual game would've been as epic.

I don't think so. If the 2001 build was finished it would be one of the most epic games of all time. All those features - if well implemented - surely would be a win.

[SavagE]

The thing is, that 2001 version was ahead of its time! The technology and interactivity were, at least. The graphics had a better look than they have now, even though the lightning effects and models werent so sophisticated (the texture quality is comparable H@H@H@). I just seem to like the whole feeling of it way more. I know this, because I didnt like Prey or Doom 3 graphics. Not that they werent of good quality, but I just didnt like the style.

Besides - 2001 Duke didnt recycle old weapons as much as the new does. And he wielded Golden Deagle, not that poor golden Colt 1911 And I like fighting humans (even if mutated) moar than pigs or other aliens. Who knows, maybe the game had similarly frustrating puzzles and level design but it was 2001, not 2011, so some things could had been justified.

Charlie - you're not allowed to talk about the development of DNF? WHy so? Now, when the game is out you dont have to keep the knowledge from us, right? GB shouldn't be mad, as 3dr doesnt own duke IP any moar. I'm just dying to know what was the 2001 version like! Screw 1998 one, it looked like crap. Screw 2011, not so better!; D

Do you know what happened to 2001 build? I cant imagined it was just wasted, it's gotta be somewhere. I'd pay to play it.

[OpenMaw]

SavagE, on 15 June 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:

Besides - 2001 Duke didnt recycle old weapons as much as the new does. And he wielded Golden Deagle, not that poor golden Colt 1911

The M1911 is a suprerior weapon. It's also an American made gun. More fitting for Duke.

[PokeThePower]

SavagE, on 15 June 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:

Charlie - you're not allowed to talk about the development of DNF? WHy so? Now, when the game is out you dont have to keep the knowledge from us, right? GB shouldn't be mad, as 3dr doesnt own duke IP any moar. I'm just dying to know what was the 2001 version like! Screw 1998 one, it looked like crap. Screw 2011, not so better!; D

Well keep in mind there are 365 2001 versions.

I'm not allowed to talk about it because I choose to respect the fact I don't speak for 3DR/DNF/Gearbox and leave it to those guys to talk about that sort of in depth info. They may still use those ideas in new stuff, or have a plan for showcasing old stuff, etc.

Honestly I'm pushing it talking as much as I do, but I can't help myself around you guys.

SavagE, on 15 June 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:

Do you know what happened to 2001 build? I cant imagined it was just wasted, it's gotta be somewhere. I'd pay to play it.

There wasn't a concerted effort to save off builds back then. It would have to be a random build someone just happened to keep, and likely wouldn't be from any particularly special day so who knows what was working that day or wasn't.

I do regret I never recorded a playthrough of the Slick Willy or Lake Mead levels at their most complete states as they are some of my favorite work. But oh well... time marches on and I've done plenty of stuff and have plenty more cool stuff to do.

[Jimmy]

Commando Nukem, on 15 June 2011 - 04:17 PM, said:

The M1911 is a suprerior weapon. It's also an American made gun. More fitting for Duke.

Likely. Even though reliability doesn't come into play in video games, the M1911 shits all over the Desert Eagle which is prone to stop working on the drop of a dime. Though, I think the gold and ivory and shit is incredibly tacky and makes a beautiful weapon pretty damn ugly.

[SavagE]

Slick Willy? And yes, thanks for letting us know stuff, I really appreciate that. We rarely see something like this, however we rarely see a game that was restarted more than once ; ) And I forgot that the may use some ideas so you cant talk about them <sigh> I am not counting on any official reveals as they werent too open about 2001 build. DAMN IT LOOKS SO FUN TO PLAY!

I have another question tho - what about the music? Why was megadeth dropped? Or maybe it was just recorded off-game and wasnt meant to be included at all? How was the music in 2001 build? Was it more rocking or there wasnt any music at all? Was arkenstone deeper involved?

It bugs me a little - werent you (you and the team) mad ad GB for torpedoing Forever? Wasnt Miller upset about his behavior? I mean the production took so much money and he eventually he had to lay off all the people. But wasnt he upset about the situation prior to this? I knowGB was/is his friend, but still...

And Charlie - what do YOU think about the 2001 build? What do you think about the present? I mean, was the 2001 version as awesome as we all think? Was it really that good?

@ Commando
mmm yeah, 1911 is american made but to hell with that. He could have a magnum revolver then - cant get more american than that. SOmething firing magnum ammo seems just more Dukish ;D Better to usde and cooler as well :]

[OpenMaw]

Captain Awesome, on 15 June 2011 - 05:18 PM, said:

Likely. Even though reliability doesn't come into play in video games, the M1911 shits all over the Desert Eagle which is prone to stop working on the drop of a dime. Though, I think the gold and ivory and shit is incredibly tacky and makes a beautiful weapon pretty damn ugly.

I'd agree. I think the Gold worked better when it was a Deagle. I think I would have gone with a two-tone (silver slide) and wood-engraved grain grip.

SavagE, on 15 June 2011 - 05:29 PM, said:

@ Commando
mmm yeah, 1911 is american made but to hell with that. He could have a magnum revolver then - cant get more american than that. SOmething firing magnum ammo seems just more Dukish ;D Better to usde and cooler as well :]

A bigger bullet doesn't make a more badass gun, though. When I think of American side arms, I think of the 1911, and I imagine many weapon history afficiando's would tend to agree. That weapon redefined firearms in a lot of ways. There's a lot of history behind it.

[Jimmy]

My granddaddy used one in the Great War.

[SavagE]

maybe there is history but it still does look ancient. Ant with the over the top of duke's personality a deagle suits better

[PokeThePower]

SavagE, on 15 June 2011 - 05:29 PM, said:

Slick Willy?

That was the name of the original strip club in the early Unreal days. You can see a little bit of the outside of it in the 2003 footage.

SavagE, on 15 June 2011 - 05:29 PM, said:

I have another question tho - what about the music? Why was megadeth dropped? Or maybe it was just recorded off-game and wasnt meant to be included at all? How was the music in 2001 build? Was it more rocking or there wasnt any music at all? Was arkenstone deeper involved?

We hadn't gotten to full development on the music side of things. I always assumed we'd find a way to integrate the various themes into the full version somewhere but it never reached that point before I left.

SavagE, on 15 June 2011 - 05:29 PM, said:

It bugs me a little - werent you (you and the team) mad ad GB for torpedoing Forever? Wasnt Miller upset about his behavior? I mean the production took so much money and he eventually he had to lay off all the people. But wasnt he upset about the situation prior to this? I knowGB was/is his friend, but still...

When half of a company leaves within a few months of each other you know people aren't happy. Beyond that though I'm not going to speculate or comment. We all had our hands in that pie for better and worse.

SavagE, on 15 June 2011 - 05:29 PM, said:

And Charlie - what do YOU think about the 2001 build? What do you think about the present? I mean, was the 2001 version as awesome as we all think? Was it really that good?

I think it had the potential to be that good if we had stayed 100% focused on delivering that vision. It wasn't as good from the perspective of a full game on shelves as the trailer makes it look because it wasn't done yet. I do think if we had finished that vision for late 2002 (maaaybe late 2003) it would have been pretty spectacular.

[Kathy]

Wieder, on 22 June 2011 - 10:02 AM, said:

I do think if we had finished that vision for late 2002 (maaaybe late 2003) it would have been pretty spectacular.