[DN4EVR]

The Commander, on 05 June 2011 - 10:26 PM, said:

Wtf is going on in here. This has turned into a Steam hate thread.

I can tell you know from being a long term user of Steam (Since HL2 came out) and being on dial up back then that, yes I didn't like Steam at all.
But then it grew on me and now I think it is one of the best gaming shell handlers out there.
The fact I can run/install games without a disk is one of best things it has going for it.
I do not purchase all my games on Steam though, I most likely will end up buying DNF locally retail as the price on steam is jacked due to the way 2K handles there prices. (Anyone else in New Zealand or Australia will know exactly what I mean)

There are only two negative things that I do not like with Steam.
1. I could get rid of my MSN etc if Steam chat allowed file transfers. (I am sure it will happen one day)
2. You can not specify which HD/location to install Steam games to.
There are ways around this though but can be quite confusing for a n00b. Junction Link Magic

In the end, I think most of the Steam haters are people that got VAC banned in games such as Counter Strike etc or are people that have read bad reviews from those people and have the wrong idea about the program.

Or they are people who hate Gabe Newell for some reason(lateness of HL2/ep 3, etc.), or are so anti-DRM that they can't drop their pride just a bit to use the client, etc.

Also thanks for the steam custom install folder setup link....I wanted to install a game recently but it would've filled the steam(also OS) drive and I wanted to install to another partition but didn't know how.

flarty, on 05 June 2011 - 10:31 PM, said:

FAX?

Pony Express?

[Martin]

Pay by cheque? That's how I pay for stuff from eBay. Takes longer, but a cheque is still the 2nd safest way to do transactions after cash. It has the specific amount which is to be drawn from your account, and the entity to whom the amount is to be paid to. Any evidence at all of tampering makes a cheque instantly void.

[NightFright]

A few years ago, I had prejudices against Steam, too. I registered back when Half-Life 2 was released because I simply wanted to play that game, like so many others. And soon after that, I got used to it. By now, Steam is pretty much the first thing I install again after reinstalling my system. Most of my favorite games I regularly play are Steam games, e.g. Torchlight, Portal 2, Worms Reloaded, Super Meat Boy and others. I will keep adding more titles to that list (and it's already not a short one), and I don't mind Duke Nukem Forever being one of them at all.

Why? IMHO because it's simply convenient. You have everything at one place, you can install any game at any time again without having to look for the CD/DVD anywhere, and if you want to buy a new game, it is as easy as it can possibly be. Often you also have special discounts which get you older titles at very affordable prices.

I think it's time to stop cursing Valve for establishing an online selling platform that actually works. I am glad that DNF got released on Steam because that has probably saved us from some nasty other copy-protection mechanism (some other Steam titles still suffer from additional DRM, but that is the problem of the publisher).

[Martin]

+1

It is by far the lesser of all the DRM evils. It's DRM that disguises itself/also functions as a simple portal for all your PC games. I mean that in the best way possible.

[Booshy]

Just to add, if you right click a game in steam, there is an option to turn off automatic updating on a game-by-game basis.

I've never used this feature as I've never had call for it, but thought its worth mentioning.

[Alithinos]

Descent, on 05 June 2011 - 07:06 PM, said:

Every single post I read from you is crap. You come into threads and disagree 90% of the time just to "sound smart." It's never anything constructive, you make a snide comment and get pinned in the corner whenever people ask you to elaborate.

Then you stand by it after you are called out. The cycle repeats like clockwork.

That's exactly what Duke4 needs. More fake drama and superficial discussion.

So you say that my other posts are 'also' crap because I don't agree with you or somebody else but I have a personal opinion that might be different from the majority ?
Come on,if we didn't had different opinions to argue about and all were agreeing in one thing there wouldn't be a reason for a forum to exist. I mean one would make a thread and the rest would go "I agree",that would be at least boring.
So,I don't like Steam,is that so bad ?
Can't people have different tastes and opinions,or if they have they are weird or drama queens or something ?

[DN4EVR]

Alithinos, on 06 June 2011 - 01:46 AM, said:

So you say that my other posts are 'also' crap because I don't agree with you or somebody else but I have a personal opinion that might be different from the majority ?
Come on,if we didn't had different opinions to argue about and all were agreeing in one thing there wouldn't be a reason for a forum to exist. I mean one would make a thread and the rest would go "I agree",that would be at least boring.
So,I don't like Steam,is that so bad ?
Can't people have different tastes and opinions,or if they have they are weird or drama queens or something ?

It's not that this opinion(in here) was crap...it's how you worded it....it reminded me of a Mr. Deviance reply, that's how abrasive it seemed.

[Alithinos]

DN4EVR, on 05 June 2011 - 03:44 PM, said:

1. Going to a store is fun, but buying digital can be fun too, with many communities surrounding some DD sites talking about sales & games people like/etc.

2. Also this is simple as well....buy the game, then download it to your steam account....no need to waste gas or time standing in store lines all day. Some would consider the tradeoffs to be wrothwhile in those regards.

3. As for passwords....well it's to keep people from stealing your games...among other things. You seriously tell me you can't remember a few passwords or write them down somewhere?

4. And credit cards? Dude, where have you been? In a cave? Most people have them nowadays, and many other DD sites use them as well...plus how else do you expect to pay for games online besides paypal/CC? Cash?

1. OK so me and you consider 'fun' different things. As it's a matter of taste,we can't make subjective arguments about that

2. I wouldn't stand in a store line all day,it would take me just 20 minutes to get to the closest shop and buy something. But man,it's terribly boring when you have to wait for your game to download. I find it more boring to wait for hours in front of my computer screen watching the download bar fill slowly than go to a shop and just buy the game and bring it back home. For the same reason (download times) I also never download pirate games even if they are for free.I hate waiting like that.

3. The point is that if I had the game on my house I would be sure that nobody would steal my game. Someone can remember a password and a nickname,but there are also so many other passwords and nicknames for all the sites I'm a member that the list is growing huge.

4. So what if many people have them ? If all those many people go and jump of a cliff would I have to also jump off ? Banks are blood sucking vampires that steal people's money and want to take over the world. And they also charge you interests,and blah blah blah... I hate credit cards. And what if that digital service gets hacked like PSN ??? It's too risky. Somebody might hack any online service at anytime if he wants to. I don't feel safe enough. What I might possibly loose is much more than what I might possibly get.

5. And what if someone hacks my account ? They will take my personal data and who knows how they are going to use them ?

6. And what if I loose or forget my password or nickname ? I will loose all my games forever.

7. And what if for some reason I don't have internet connection because of ISP problems ? I won't be able to play or install some games.





And the list could go on and on...
There are just so many risks and hassles it just not worth it.

[Alithinos]

DN4EVR, on 06 June 2011 - 01:50 AM, said:

It's not that this opinion(in here) was crap...it's how you worded it....it reminded me of a Mr. Deviance reply, that's how abrasive it seemed.

OK,I do recognize that my first post wasn't the best I could write.
When I wrote it,it was too late local time and I was sleepy and I was bored to explain with lots of details the reasons I dislike Steam and I ended up with some simplistic points to state my opinion,that imply that Steam is bad,even if it isn't at all that bad.
I'm sorry.
But hey,seeing my hard earned green points going from 9 to 1 in one night felt bad man.

[The Commander]

Alithinos, on 06 June 2011 - 02:07 AM, said:

But hey,seeing my hard earned green points going from 9 to 1 in one night felt bad man.

Probably because saying Steam is horrible is exactly like saying that Duke Nukem is stupid on a Duke Nukem fourm and no one liked you saying it.

Just a thought.

[DN4EVR]

Alithinos, on 06 June 2011 - 02:02 AM, said:

1. OK so me and you consider 'fun' different things. As it's a matter of taste,we can't make subjective arguments about that

2. I wouldn't stand in a store line all day,it would take me just 20 minutes to get to the closest shop and buy something. But man,it's terribly boring when you have to wait for your game to download. I find it more boring to wait for hours in front of my computer screen watching the download bar fill slowly than go to a shop and just buy the game and bring it back home. For the same reason (download times) I also never download pirate games even if they are for free.I hate waiting like that.

3. The point is that if I had the game on my house I would be sure that nobody would steal my game. Someone can remember a password and a nickname,but there are also so many other passwords and nicknames for all the sites I'm a member that the list is growing huge.

4. So what if many people have them ? If all those many people go and jump of a cliff would I have to also jump off ? Banks are blood sucking vampires that steal people's money and want to take over the world. And they also charge you interests,and blah blah blah... I hate credit cards. And what if that digital service gets hacked like PSN ??? It's too risky. Somebody might hack any online service at anytime if he wants to. I don't feel safe enough. What I might possibly loose is much more than what I might possibly get.

5. And what if someone hacks my account ? They will take my personal data and who knows how they are going to use them ?

6. And what if I loose or forget my password or nickname ? I will loose all my games forever.

7. And what if for some reason I don't have internet connection because of ISP problems ? I won't be able to play or install some games.

And the list could go on and on...
There are just so many risks and hassles it just not worth it.

1. We can still debate about them if it pertains to the thread & isn't too inflammatory, right?
2. Ever notice that downloads can run while you're not watching them? You can actually(gasp!) do OTHER THINGS while they run, if your connection isn't archaic that is.
3. Again, write them down...heck even encrypt your passwords if need be.
4. First off, why the rant about banks as being analogous to jumping off a cliff? Also, you do know that you can't be perfectly safe no matter what you do & that if done right and watched carefully debit/credit cards can be a major convenience to those who use them.....and with debit cards the money comes from your account not billed to you so no interest & fees/et for the most part.
5. Again, stop being so paranoid...it isn't healthy...life has risk, you have to learn how to mitigate it as best you can while still enjoying life.
6. You contact support and get it chnaged then.
7. Most steam games have offline mode and the singleplayer in them works fine when offline.

8. You're just looking for any reason to nitpick steam aren't you?

[Martin]

Alithinos, on 06 June 2011 - 02:07 AM, said:

But hey,seeing my hard earned green points going from 9 to 1 in one night felt bad man.

Green points?

[NightFright]

He means the reputation points. Well, it's a sensitive system. The democratic process has found its way into the board. xD

[Micky C]

Not to go too off-topic, but I've noticed it's a lot more difficult to get rep points since the emphasis of the forums shifted to the DNF section. In the past there was a lot of production and contribution of assets related to DN 3D, and a lot of people helping each other with problems. It was a proper community forum. Now there's all these posts arguing about this point or that point, and people posting things in the wrong sections, causing lots of people to post the exact same information over and over because there's so much junk to sort through that it's difficult to find anything useful or interesting.

[NightFright]

Well I just got a pretty poor +6 rep increase for announcing HRP v5.0 in the HRP section, I actually got more over here by the few pro-DNF and pro-Steam comments I posted. xD It depends where the most users are, I guess, but the reasons are not always transparent. Anyway, there is a separate thread about this in the website feedback section, I guess anyone interested in contributing to the discussion about the rep points is welcome to share his/her thoughts over there. ^^

What I forgot to add maybe is that they only recently also increased Steam account safety considerably. It now depends on which machine(s) you are running the client. You can choose to run only on one PC or several, but you will always have to "unlock" it the first time you are running it. The fewer machines are privileged, the better, of course. Basically, even if a guy gets all your account data, i.e. username and password, it won't work because he doesn't log in from your PC (at least unless someone from your family/household is trying to rip you off, hehe). So it's even more or less fool proof (well, no system really is, but at least some efforts are visible here).

I have downloaded from several game selling platforms so far, but I found Steam to be simply the easiest and most sophisticated of them all. It is centralized, compact and user-friendly. I really cannot name a real reason why you should not use it.

[Rellik]

NightFright, on 06 June 2011 - 11:02 AM, said:

What I forgot to add maybe is that they only recently also increased Steam account safety considerably. It now depends on which machine(s) you are running the client. You can choose to run only on one PC or several, but you will always have to "unlock" it the first time you are running it. The fewer machines are privileged, the better, of course. Basically, even if a guy gets all your account data, i.e. username and password, it won't work because he doesn't log in from your PC (at least unless someone from your family/household is trying to rip you off, hehe). So it's even more or less fool proof (well, no system really is, but at least some efforts are visible here).

Yeah, it's called Steam Guard. Gabe Newell even gave out his account&password. /itsatrap

[WedgeBob]

DN4EVR, on 05 June 2011 - 07:27 PM, said:

So not having to put a fragile disc in a drive to install a game & having to keep a bunch of discs around is convenient, while Dling a game is inconvenient?

Glad you brought this up, I was just about ready to say, that if you already an existing Steam customer, and have an established account, and what not, you don't even need to slip the DVD into the tray at all if you don't want.
The last thing one needs is a DVD with a lot of dust, fingerprints, and scratches all over the place, and all the wear and tear in the world. Especially true if you are getting the BoS Edition, where the DVD-ROM can be considered a collector's item in itself.
All you'd really need to do is obtain the CD-Key from the DVD case, or the manual, or wherever it is, plug that CD-Key into Steam under the Activate Game with Steam option, and if Steam likes that code, then it will install and set up the game for you, and treat you like a king. Sure, installing the game right from Steam itself is a slower process, but at least this way, you don't have to touch the DVD at all, and you still get to install and play the game!

[Laokin]

Mr.Deviance, on 05 June 2011 - 02:57 PM, said:

Last I checked, steam was keeping pc gaming alive but maybe you know something that I don't...

Yerp. Steam is our lfie line to PC games. Wonder myself how it's killing PC gaming.... If you don't pirate, it shouldn't bother you, if you do pirate, it still doesn't bother you. So hrm.... What's so bad about it? Most games auto update themselves now anyway and don't even use steam.

[Raziel]

Guys seriously, I didn't create this thread so all the steam haters can emerge from the woodwork. The fact is, DNF is shipping with Steam, the only thing that remains is to properly educate people about what it all means. Even if they do remove Steam in the future, they are not going to patch Duke to be DRM free and every single modern DRM other than Steam is really intrusive and nasty, so pray they don't switch to one of those.

Steam is by far the nicest DRM you'll find for PC games these days. You can choose to install from the DVD in the box, or download via the internet if you lose your DVD. You can install on as many computers as you like and after the installation process, you can switch Steam to offline mode and the game will never require the DVD or internet again. Pretty much, once it's installed, you won't have to worry about DRM ever again unless you intend to play online, where yes, you will need to connect to Steam to do so.

Compare this to Assassin’s Creed 2, where you have to maintain a connection to their DRM server while you play, if the connection drops out, so does the game, plus you get news like the following -> http://www.geek.com/...o-down-2010037/

That is an extreme example, but almost every game these days requires some kind of online check and most of them do a DVD check as well every time you start the game. Steam is a nice DRM, once installed, you don't have to worry about it, just switch it to offline mode if you don't plan on playing online and it pretty much doesn't exist.

[Johnny]

Is it possible to activate the UK-Fullversion in Germany? I had read that many Gamers has very big problems with activating their UK-Version from CoD: Black Ops through Steam.

[NightFright]

Maybe that depends on which game you try. If CoD has a different version for Germany (cut), Steam might not allow you to activate it with a German IP. Even though I must say that never happened to me. In general, it shouldn't depend on which key you use, but from which IP you activate. One way or the other, German DNF will be uncut too, so it doesn't matter. You can as well buy the German version and switch to English language through Steam settings.

[Person of Color]

Alithinos, on 06 June 2011 - 02:02 AM, said:

1. OK so me and you consider 'fun' different things. As it's a matter of taste,we can't make subjective arguments about that

2. I wouldn't stand in a store line all day,it would take me just 20 minutes to get to the closest shop and buy something. But man,it's terribly boring when you have to wait for your game to download. I find it more boring to wait for hours in front of my computer screen watching the download bar fill slowly than go to a shop and just buy the game and bring it back home. For the same reason (download times) I also never download pirate games even if they are for free.I hate waiting like that.

3. The point is that if I had the game on my house I would be sure that nobody would steal my game. Someone can remember a password and a nickname,but there are also so many other passwords and nicknames for all the sites I'm a member that the list is growing huge.

4. So what if many people have them ? If all those many people go and jump of a cliff would I have to also jump off ? Banks are blood sucking vampires that steal people's money and want to take over the world. And they also charge you interests,and blah blah blah... I hate credit cards. And what if that digital service gets hacked like PSN ??? It's too risky. Somebody might hack any online service at anytime if he wants to. I don't feel safe enough. What I might possibly loose is much more than what I might possibly get.

5. And what if someone hacks my account ? They will take my personal data and who knows how they are going to use them ?

6. And what if I loose or forget my password or nickname ? I will loose all my games forever.

7. And what if for some reason I don't have internet connection because of ISP problems ? I won't be able to play or install some games.





And the list could go on and on...
There are just so many risks and hassles it just not worth it.

3. I don't have that problem, organize your shit better.

4. I fully agree, except I'm not worried about credit card number theft. You know what happened when PSN got hacked? I called up Chase and they sent me a new card for free. Took me all of five minutes.

5. Valve and Blizzard are very good about reclaiming hacked accounts.

6. See number 1. Who the fuck forgets their username or password? I have four low security passwords I use on rotation and different high security passwords for my email, bank account, and credit card. I don't have that problem. If you forgot your username and password, they'll email it to you. This is the biggest load of bullshit posted in this thread yet. Stop trying to make yourself sound as if you are right.

7. Offline mode. Don't know what it is? Don't bash Steam. I'm sorry, if you can't wait out a four hour at most Internet outage you have serious problems. That's why God gave us automobiles, friends, and pussy.



Don't get me wrong, there's nothing I love more than actually installing a game and choosing "Sound Blaster 16 or AWE32" as my sound card. and manually configuring DMA, IRQ, and port numbers. That's not sarcasm, either.

Those days are over. Steam is the future and it is wonderful.

[coheed82]

Speaking of Steam, while we are on this subject, I need to know something i just remembered.
i once tryed to "add non steam games to my library"... but when i go offline and back on again, the games i added are gone.. who can help me here, to keep these games in my library. i wanted to add eduke32, duke3d atomic mirrors edge, mass effect and others that i didnt get through steam means.

[Johnny]

I asked about this UK-Steam-activating in other Countries, because, i had the chance to get the Full-Game today (wednesday), but only UK for PC and i had no bought it. Now i must waiting on Friday, meh.

[Spirrwell]

Steam isn't bad. It works for its purpose, that's all that matters. Opinions are crap. I never really liked Steam. That doesn't matter, because it works. I DO think that there could be better ways of getting rid of piracy. I would use a USB drive as like a key and\or use biometric security. As I said, Steam works, and that's what matters.

[Sandman]

Mr.Deviance, on 05 June 2011 - 02:57 PM, said:

Last I checked, steam was keeping pc gaming alive but maybe you know something that I don't...

I'd have to agree, anyone who thinks Steam overall impact on PC gaming is negative and not overly positive needs to pull their head out of the ground.

[Raziel]

The problem is that most people don't actually know about steam and end up bashing it as a result. No DVD checks and no Internet required? Sign me up for that drm. Oh, hang on, that's steam.

[themaniacboy]

Raziel, on 09 June 2011 - 02:40 PM, said:

The problem is that most people don't actually know about steam and end up bashing it as a result. No DVD checks and no Internet required? Sign me up for that drm. Oh, hang on, that's steam.

Most people do know it, but because they have installed it one time, in their eyes they can say whatever they want because it is installed on their PC.

[coheed82]

Guys i have an issue here.
Now, with the Demo fair enuf that was online available only.. But now with my full game... I cant seem to play this offline.
There are always gonna be times that i dont have credit, so when these times occur i do not want to be without the means to play my game!!

Now, When i click the desktop shortcut that says duke nukem forever it doesnt actually go anywhere.
as i still have the demo on steam alongside the full retail game does this explain why on my desktop the shortcut i have, for the demo says Duke nukem forever demo, while the full game says duke nukem forever with a (2) at the bottom right of the icon?
i just need to know how to get the fullgame playable on the steam's offline mode.
ive been playing online with my retail dnf full game for over 50 hours now, but still when i tell steam to go offline it takes the ability to play the full game off with it till im back in steams Online mode. why and how do i fix this, thankyou for any support

[Alithinos]

Now that I finally played a game on Steam and I learned more I can say that I prefer SecuRom or Games for Windows over this thing.

Steam locks a game with your account,and that's what is bad.
That means that if I buy a game that turns out to be bad I can't get it back to the shop or sell it to somebody else,because the copy will be locked with my Steam account forever.


It restricts me from returning it to the shop I bought it from or selling it to somebody else,and I don't like it,because I don't like it when I loose my rights.
And those of you who like it that they take away your rights and restrict you more and more are retards that your brains where taken away by national services.