I don't like to treat things in american/antimerican ways, but if you define your ideologies through your nationality in the first place, then I have no other option than to reject your views on politeness that seems to be strictly tied to ones nationality.
This started with Splat. I don't think he is in America, and his quote is, well, short. Mr. Deviance disagreed with another short statement. Now the statements are getting longer and circumvent the topic and America is in it. Hmm. That is Mr BlackCat's fault, the only American in the discussion. I'm Canadian, so I think this is really an important gaming issue, but then this needs confirmation from Gearbox to clear up if they cut gore out of the game, to have an opinion.
This started with Splat. I don't think he is in America, and his quote is, well, short. Mr. Deviance disagreed with another short statement. Now the statements are getting longer and circumvent the topic and America is in it. Hmm. That is Mr BlackCat's fault, the only American in the discussion. I'm Canadian, so I think this is really an important gaming issue, but then this needs confirmation from Gearbox to clear up if they cut gore out of the game, to have an opinion.
Splat had a short post where he disagreed with me and I had a short reply where I asked him to explain why is my point wrong.
Then BlackCat entered the debate and turned it into an American vs foreigner misunderstanding and he also called me abrasive which is a very political word.
I rather be called an arrogant son of a bitch than a person with abrasive personality. I hate it when somebody wants to curse me while trying to manage my feelings
Next time you want to curse me, go ahead and say what you really think about me because I appreciate it somebody that can hate on me the proper way.
This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 05 June 2011 - 10:20 AM
Splat had a short post where he disagreed with me and I had a short reply where I asked him to explain why is my point wrong.
Then BlackCat entered the debate and turned it into an American vs foreigner misunderstanding and he also called me abrasive which is a very political word.
Sorry about that... wasn't trying to change the debate to an "American" vs anything... I was just saying maybe that is why you come across as so abrasive.
Mr.Deviance said:
I rather be called an arrogant son of a bitch than a person with abrasive personality. I hate it when somebody wants to curse me while trying to manage my feelings
That IS cultural... because it is near the opposite for myself.
I think you are an asshole maybe? I have never heard of any relation between abrasive and anything political. I will just go with arrogant son of a bitch for you then.
Has different meaning for myself though.
Mr.Deviance said:
Next time you want to curse me, go ahead and say what you really think about me because I appreciate it somebody that can hate on me the proper way.
I wasn't cursing you... I was stating why "I" think you are an arrogant son of a bitch. (although I don't think that is the right term)
If I just said "I think you suck" that would be lazy to me though... so I tried to explain it the best way I could.
Just like you, I like to know and say "the why".
And I don't care where you are from... most people don't like to be ordered to do things.
MrBlackCat
This post has been edited by MrBlackCat: 05 June 2011 - 11:00 AM
Before I bitch about the forum that almost all of us criticized at one point, I have to say why I am making this topic.
This is not intended to be another one of those "FUCK Gearbox for abusing me on their nazi forum, threads".
Were you banned from GearBox or something?
Mr.Deviance said:
I made this topic with the intention of exposing the fact that Gearbox has immediately locked and deleted a topic that gathered popularity fast and it was about a very important issue with the game.
The said topic had this title " Gearbox has censored Duke Nukem Forever! WHY did Gearbox do this? "
They should not allow preloaded thread titles, true or not. (which you don't know for certain)
As previously pointed out, you would not understand politeness... again, this assumes they have toned down the blood as charged within the title. What if I had a subject called "Mr. Deviance is an arrogant son of a bitch!, Why?" I would never do that, because it is only my view. (although formatted specially for you at your request for this example) I would never do this because it is pre-conviction. Let people decide for themselves. So regardless of the "truth" within, the title is "abrasive"... (also chosen for you specifically Mr.Deviance)
It is THEIR site... they are allowed to do as they wish, but I still accept what you are saying... we would hope they would not choose "the dark side" of the farce... IF that is what is happening, which you can't know.
Mr.Deviance said:
The OP of that topic was claiming that the gore in DNF Demo is looking so toned when compared to this video, that it actually feels censored. (*video quote removed*)
After he showed his evidece, he said that it would be cool if some developer or manager could answer there and explain what's that all about.
Yay... attack them without "proof" in your thread title then pretend to be calmly asking a question... that is easily how "they" took it. Joe isn't going to put up with that... he has no leash over there... in my opinion.
Mr.Deviance said:
So what did Gbx moderators do after 4 pages of people agreeing with the thread starter and asking for official answers?
That's right, they fucking locked the topic and deleted it 2 seconds later!
Expected because of speculated view above.
Mr.Deviance said:
Gearbox does not want you to know that Duke Nukem Forever's gore has been toned down and they certainly don't want you to see this video.
You are assuming that is why they deleted the thread... first mistake. You don't KNOW that was why. So most of your post is based on your assumption based on your interpretation of the events... which is all you have to go on in all fairness. So moot. The "facts" are "The thread was deleted." Beyond that, it is YOUR speculation. Which I am not contesting.
Mr.Deviance said:
The official DNF forums are the purest form of sulfuric acid in a sense that nothing important makes it through the nazi filter if you post about it there.
A great deal of power is attained by keeping followers of most anything led, through ignorance.
Mr.Deviance said:
Gearbox is acting completely hypocritical and in the last few months they have crossed every single fucking line of decency that any human being can tolerate, no matter how tolerant he is!
Pretty dramatic, and again, has its roots and origins in the assumptions you previously made.
The evidence alone is not compelling enough for such deep-set reactions in MY opinion. Just saying... I respect your right to your speculations... just stating mine in parallel.
(continued because of an issue with excessive quote blocks... MrBlackCat)
(Sorry for the double post... had an issue with quotes)
Continued...
Mr.Deviance said:
DNF or not, they have given some extreme examples of dictatorship and this has got to be brought to everybody's attention because this is a VERY SERIOUS ISSUE.
I just don't agree... Thank you for trying to save me from the evils of supporting GearBox based on their FORUM ideals. Before I boycot them, I like to understand them based on facts... all I have so far is they Delete Threads they don't like... reasons? There is only speculation at this time.
Mr.Deviance said:
The forums that are representing the official product that we are buying, are censoring anything and everything you or anybody else might dare to post there as negative feedback.
This is actually overstepping opinion... you fell in the "wrong" category here. Sorry... they are tolerating some serious shit over there against their product. "anything and everything" is way over the line.
Mr.Deviance said:
This topic is a huge protest against the abuse and censorship that is going on over there on the OFFICIAL Duke Nukem Forever forums.
Nothing that dares to question things is allowed there for more than 3 or 4 pages, before it gets locked and deleted so nobody else knows it ever existed.
This is simply not true.
IF it is even partially true... it doesn't mean it is Damage Control on their part motivated by some Evil Black-Hearted Conspiracy to cover up a bit of "toning down the gore" EVEN if that has happened.
Mr.Deviance said:
Judging by their daily abuse
Absolutes again... sorry, but this is subjective. Like any of us, they have to survive, and if cencorship is what it takes, they have a right to do that. (though I don't think that is what is going on)
Mr.Deviance said:
and censorship of any form of feedback about broken things it begs the question if they are not following orders from their high ups that want Duke Nukem Forever sold at any cost to as many unsuspecting people as possible.
It is up to the consumer to educate themselves... which is why many of us are here... we are wise enough for a second opinion.
Mr.Deviance said:
There is no other explication for their miserable censorship and their miserable communist dictatorial attitudes.
You might be right Mr.Deviance...
Lets say you are right... completely right about all of what you assumed above, just for the sake of argument.
So what? They are evil dick-taters... by these same standards, so are most of the companies you buy things from most likely.
So what? Boycot? I learned a long time ago, to AVOID supporting companies I know to be "bad" when I learned for myself and determined they had committed crimes against my ideals. AVOID I say because I ran out of companies about 20 years ago... when I could no longer provide my own power, grow all of my own food, I realized I had to support these evils to pay taxes to the most bloated evil. (government)
I think this is an easy subject for everyone to jump on because most any of us dislike oppression and censorship etc. And most any of us don't want to support a company that is "abusing" us... and we should not. Anyone abused should stop it... if then can. You are right, we should go buy Duke Nukem Forever from another company... oh wait. That doesn't work well.
If a large percentage of the people buying the game went to forums it might matter... but when it is about 0.01%, all of this becomes of very little use other than education which WOULD be appreciated IF what you say was more tangible. I would have to know their motivations, and have the game proved of reduction of gore, and I don't have the game yet to know that. Your suggestions of conspiracy are not enough to convince me to act against GearBox in any way.
The effort you put into your post is appreciated... the strong views based on POSSIBILITY and assumption, not fact, is not appreciated.
And by the way... I was in the thread until it was removed. I know what was said.
========================
The other side of the coin... if you really believe what you typed above in your OP, my post is in fact nothing personal at all. Because if what you believe you see is true, trying to save others by exposing violations against your morality, ethics etc, (and maybe others) whatever that might be, is considerate of you.
MrBlackCat
This post has been edited by MrBlackCat: 05 June 2011 - 12:47 PM
MrBlackCat, you have some good points but you obviously have no experience with these corporate tactics in past forums. For example, when Interplay announced Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel for the Xbox/PS2 there was a huge backlash. They pruned negative reviews of people who played it, banned them, then finally closed the forums. It was leaked from people inside Interplay the reason they did this was to hide the truth from shareholders. They are randomly checking forums to see what the consumer thinks about a product and if the company is on steady ground. When things look bad they might bail. The same thing is going on today, but it's even more devious. Some companies go so far as to insert anonymous "plants" into their own forums and outside sites to artificially boost their image and a game's score. It's all about the bottom line. Stop and ask yourself why do marketing people run the Gearbox forums?
This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 05 June 2011 - 01:00 PM
MrBlackCat, you have some good points but you obviously have no experience with these corporate tactics in past forums. For example, when Interplay announced Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel for the Xbox/PS2 there was a huge backlash. They pruned negative reviews of people who played it, banned them, then finally closed the forums. It was leaked from people inside Interplay the reason they did this was to hide the truth from shareholders. They are randomly checking forums to see what the consumer thinks about a product and if the company is on steady ground. When things look bad they might bail. The same thing is going on today, but it's even more devious. Some companies go so far as to insert anonymous "plants" into their own forums and outside sites to artificially boost their image and a game's score. It's all about the bottom line. Stop and ask yourself why do marketing people run the Gearbox forums?
I usually don't agree with Mad MAX RW but this post of his that I've quoted here is the fountain of truth!
If a large percentage of the people buying the game went to forums it might matter... but when it is about 0.01%, all of this becomes of very little use other than education which WOULD be appreciated IF what you say was more tangible.
You kept saying in your upper posts that I assume stuff. That's the only major point that I could extract from your skyscraper of text.
I have to say there's a big difference between assuming things about random people you don't know at all and assuming things about a public organism that's seemingly acting in a stereotypical way and copying all of the corporatist trends that other similar organisms have done in the past and have been caught red handed at.
Of course you can lose your time trying to dismantle my post word for word and call it a compilation of assumptions and give a corporatist organism the benefit of the doubt and even go as far as to defend it.
Or you can use your life experience and realize I am right. If everything in your life starts from the assumption that everybody is your friend and that people are predominantly fair, then sir you are excessively naive or you aren't and you know exactly what you are doing when you are defending them for no reason.
Everything you've said about my post in relation to assumptions, can also be said about your post. I too can act dumb and say that you are just assuming that gearbox is being fair while I am just assuming shit because I'm delusional.
I am not a politically correct person and I always keep my eyes open because in today's world anybody can take advantage of your naivety.
I do the same with politics and I was never disappointed by my political decisions.
You accuse me of dealing in absolute and of basing my statements on assumptions, yet here I find you baldly assuming that only 0.01% of people that buy the game actually visit forums and you also state it in an absolute manner, as if there's any statistic showing that's the truth.
MrBlackCat, on 05 June 2011 - 12:46 PM, said:
Your suggestions of conspiracy are not enough to convince me to act against GearBox in any way.
1. I was not suggesting conspiracy, I was suggesting that Gearbox is doing what every developer usually does close to the release date of a game and that's censorship of negative reviews and opinions.
Like Mad Max Rw said it so well, this is a known fact and there's no conspiracy thing unless you are willing to call everybody that accused a company of censoring them, crazy!
2. I never intended to convince you or anybody else to act against Gearbox in any way.
That's you assuming things again, even though you constantly accuse me of assuming things myself.
I would call that hypocrisy but I won't because I think you know yourself already.
This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 05 June 2011 - 02:40 PM
When the dust settles, how Gearbox treats people on their forum will make only a marginal difference to game sales one way or another. The bulk of sales will be determined by the quality of the final product, their marketing campaign, and the state of the economy. Right now their marketing looks good, the economy looks bad, and the quality of the game looks to be somewhere in the middle.
I just want to know one thing on this topic, will the full game be consored? because tits and swearing dont fit without blood and pain!
Until the game is out we can only speculate. However, based on recent video evidence and a total lack of clarification from Gearbox it appears that way. I'm guessing they had a last minute glitch with rendering decals so instead of fixing the problem they pulled things back significantly.
This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 05 June 2011 - 03:51 PM
Until the game is out we can only speculate. However, based on recent video evidence and a total lack of clarification from Gearbox it appears that way. I'm guessing they had a last minute glitch with rendering decals so instead of fixing the problem they pulled things back significantly.
Maybe they can bring shit back with patches or if not, maybe we can bring stuff back with mods.
I changed the thread title from "Communist..." to "Ruthless..." since it made no sense and it was annoying to look at.
You should have let it like that. It was an oxymoron but what ever that works too I guess.
The word I wanted to use initially would have expressed my frustration much better but then shit would stirred in a different direction than I intended.
This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 05 June 2011 - 04:02 PM
Whether or not I buy DNF is hinging on what kind of mod support it has. Gearbox never patched the simplest things for Borderlands PC such as the retarded narrow fov, broken mouse smoothing, and vsync among others. I have no reason to believe they'll patch in blood or a weapon wheel or whatever else we ask for. Once again it will be up to the fans to fix it.
Whether or not I buy DNF is hinging on what kind of mod support it has. Gearbox never patched the simplest things for Borderlands PC such as the retarded narrow fov, broken mouse smoothing, and vsync among others. I have no reason to believe they'll patch in blood or a weapon wheel or whatever else we ask for. Once again it will be up to the fans to fix it.
Did you see the image analysis thread? There's some pics in there that prove the demo was gimped.
(too many quotes again... had to delete some stuff)
Mr.Deviance said:
of course you can lose your time trying to dismantle my post word for word and call it a compilation of assumptions and give a corporatist organism the benefit of the doubt and even go as far as to defend it.
In this case, and as usual, I defend ideals, not companies. You have shown nothing convincing to me. You have no evidence... your foundation is your assumptions. Deleted Posts does not automatically equal Corporate Monster. YOU don't know why the posts/threads were deleted. I saw a LOT of deleted threads... I was right there for hours.
Mr.Deviance said:
Or you can use your life experience and realize I am right.
Like I said before... Arrogant SOB. (at your request, I did not use abrasive... respect sir)
Mr.Deviance said:
If everything in your life starts from the assumption that everybody is your friend and that people are predominantly fair, then sir you are excessively naive or you aren't and you know exactly what you are doing when you are defending them for no reason.
I don't think people are predominantly fair... in an assessment I would say most people are "bad" by their own standards though. Everything need not be polarized either though... I do NOT assume someone is my friend any more than I assume they are enemy. I deal with it in real time... Nativity has nothing to do with requiring facts before picking a battle like "exposing gearbox". Exposing them for being like other game companies? This is sounding more like something about you personally than your desperate battle to save the community from the evil that is GearBox.
Mr.Deviance said:
Everything you've said about my post in relation to assumptions, can also be said about your post.
No it can't... stop trying to sound like you know what you are talking about and practice knowing what you are talking about. Without evidence, you are just promoting a witch-hunt.
Mr.Deviance said:
I too can act dumb and say that you are just assuming that gearbox is being fair while I am just assuming shit because I'm delusional.
I am not assuming GearBox is being fair... assumption again. I don't assume any of your motivations, nor that you are delusional... but your ENTIRE rant is based on YOUR assumption of WHY threads are being deleted. YOUR view is not the only one possible, yet you are acting on it as if it is. That is why I even commented your text... you appreciate thoroughness unless it doesn't support your idea... and that is ALL it is, as a theory based on assumption.
Mr.Deviance said:
You accuse me of dealing in absolute and of basing my statements on assumptions, yet here I find you baldly assuming that only 0.01% of people that buy the game actually visit forums and you also state it in an absolute manner, as if there's any statistic showing that's the truth.
I didn't promote my off the hip percentage as absolute... and I didn't base an attacking thread/rant/expose' on ONE base assumption. Nothing to compare here... move along.
Mr.Deviance said:
1. I was not suggesting conspiracy, I was suggesting that Gearbox is doing what every developer usually does close to the release date of a game and that's censorship of negative reviews and opinions.
Uh... that is one of the meanings of conspiracy. But maybe you didn't know that. Could easily be cultural/language thingy... The intentional censorship of the game altering, you claim exists, would be conspiracy on the part of GearBox.
Mr.Deviance said:
Like Mad Max Rw said it so well, this is a known fact and there's no conspiracy thing unless you are willing to call everybody that accused a company of censoring them, crazy!
I have no idea what you mean here... maybe my use of the term conspiracy was taken differently than I mean it.
(see? I automatically look for different possibilities, right or wrong, I try to check for views outside my first... it works better and better the more you do it... try it please)
What I meant is this... according to what you are trying to convince people of, is that a conspiracy to commit fraud (fraud in this case being your alleged suppression of game "thruths") exists within GearBox.
Maybe you are thinking that I was saying YOU were a conspirator... that is not what I meant if you took it that way. Pardon the lack of clarity if that was it. (or please explain your view of what you believe I meant)
Mr.Deviance said:
2. I never intended to convince you or anybody else to act against Gearbox in any way. That's you assuming things again, even though you constantly accuse me of assuming things myself.
I would call that hypocrisy but I won't because I think you know yourself already.
Ok... you never said that... you are right and I am incorrect. Bolt text... the best I can do.
I DID assume you meant we should "do something" or "take action" against GearBox. MY mistake, responsibility taken. Hats off. Only for that assumption and nothing else.
Ok... So what IS the purpose of proving your theory then if we aren't going to do something about it?
(I could have sworn you said something about a boycott... but I suppose I am mistaken)
Anyway... here is my original point AGAIN... Your ENTIRE post is based on what?
Mr.Deviance said:
Gearbox does not want you to know that Duke Nukem Forever's gore has been toned down and they certainly don't want you to see this video.
Right? This is it.
So YOU assume you know why it was deleted. That is your ONLY evidence... so what if 50 threads were deleted... you still don't have evidence. You do NOT know their motivations for the deletions of the threads.
You ever think maybe they accidentally did it in the flurry of thread erasure? Just one of many possibilities that exist.
So your entire attacking post is based on the assumption you know why the threads were deleted... THAT is what I have a problem with... and I can have a problem with.
I like evidence... you show me some evidence beyond speculation and I will support you and your "cause" to no end... just as I support fairness now, to the best of my interpretation.
And as far as corporate greed and corporate machines and so on... all that sounds so "I've watched too much TV."... healthy paranoia is one thing, but this is so "rebel without a cause" feeling it isn't very believable.
I have not chosen a side with or against GearBox btw... but show me some evidence and gladly will.
Assumptions as to the motivations for some thread deletions at GearBox should not be enough for anyone... unless they are already pretty biased.
====================
The other side of the coin... what if you are right and they did try to hide modifications to the level of gore in the game? What now? IF they are in fact board nazis and all of that... then what? I would just be like "Yep, doesn't surprise me." and then NOTHING would change for me. I don't expect them to be great, I expect them to get Duke Nukem Forever out the door... them not being greedy or corporate monsters etc would only be a bonus really... I don't care because me caring or not, fighting them or not won't make one bit of difference. Sounds almost like they hurt your feelings or something.
You might be completely right with your assumption Mr.Deviance... I am just saying you don't have enough evidence, in my opinion, to be attacking anyone... especially with terms like "Ruthless", "hypocritical", "they have crossed every single fucking line of decency that any human being can tolerate.", "daily abuse and censorship" etc... pretty dramatic
.
Watch these... you might laugh and you might learn the possible pitfalls of assumption.
You are both fascinating people with a lot to say. I've also noticed, from this and other threads, that you both enjoy a good debate. Now I don't really care too much if this thread goes off topic, but I don't want to see a flamewar. You are both getting personal, and at this rate the moderators will be getting complaints about it soon. So please chill out or the thread will get locked.
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Mr.Deviance, on 05 June 2011 - 09:40 AM, said:
