[Micky C]

I haven't released a map for a while (I've only made 2), and I've been working on various mapping projects in the meantime. I've made quite a lot of progress on a desert/abandoned mine map, and while it's fairly large, it has a low level of detail, and adding more is just going to be a nightmare. I've also been toying around with an alien spaceship themed map, and there's been some good looking stuff there to some degree. However what I've learned from my map Libraryl is that my style is making one big building and to go with the flow.

So since TROR has been released, I decided to make a very big building. This screenshot is the result of a day's work. It'll be polymer only, at least at this stage, and will probably be designed for the HRP. Obviously the aim will be to work your way to the top, and I'll try and make that journey as 'interesting' as possible.

So consider this an officially announced project, and I fully intend to finish it.

[CruX]

It looks pretty cool, but you might want to insert a point in the middle of some of those wider walls, so their textures won't look so stretched out in comparison to the other walls.

[robotman5]

looks cool so far.

[Loke]

Good luck. Nice to see more people working on a map with the TROR feature in mind.

[Micky C]

I have an idea, I think it would be fun if I could team up with another mapper of around the same ability as me to work on this map. It's going to have different levels and maybe we can split up the levels or something.

Is anyone interested? If so, send me a pm so we can exchange ideas.

[Micky C]

Update: Progress is coming along nicely. I'm taking my time with this map to make sure the quality is all there, so that it's going to be bigger, better, and more detailed than my previous map. It's going to have 7 levels, including an underground level and a rooftop (man I love ROR).

I'll post another screenshot or so when TROR gets polymer support.

[Micky C]

Might as well post up some screenies. I'm trying not to spoil too much, although I haven't really started decorating yet. The layout of the first and second floor is almost done, as well as an under ground section. Oh yeah I've also started working on a street section for the dukebike. The player will start off some distance from the building, and will have to drive up to, overcoming certain obstacles in the path. I think it'll be kinda cool having this large building looming in the distance, and watching it get bigger as you drive closer and closer.



Similar picture to before, but with correct perspective.




The bottom third of the staircase leading up to the next floor, showing a bit of ROR. You can easily see some glitches in this photo, something I hope won't happen in polymer. This is also the least detailed area in the map at the moment (which is why I chose it for a screenshot).

It was surprisingly difficult to get to a position to take both photos which didn't show some kind of super obvious overdraw problem.

[Spiker]

This looks huge! The interior looks spacious and open, is this some kind of an opera or a hotel maybe? Normally you wouldn't see so big open spaces in a typical flat.

[Micky C]

I was kinda thinking to make it look something expensive and prestigious from the front and the first floor, but something that looks cheaper everywhere else. I haven't really decided what this building is yet, the plan was to have a bunch of different themes inside the level, with each level having it's own theme, that way you won't know what to expect every time to step through the door. I'm hoping I can get away with it since this is going to be one of the first TROR maps.

[Mark]

That open-ness and multi-level is gonna look cool.

[Stabs]

Micky C, on 29 May 2011 - 12:42 AM, said:

Might as well post up some screenies. I'm trying not to spoil too much, although I haven't really started decorating yet. The layout of the first and second floor is almost done, as well as an under ground section. Oh yeah I've also started working on a street section for the dukebike. The player will start off some distance from the building, and will have to drive up to, overcoming certain obstacles in the path. I think it'll be kinda cool having this large building looming in the distance, and watching it get bigger as you drive closer and closer.

Similar picture to before, but with correct perspective.

The bottom third of the staircase leading up to the next floor, showing a bit of ROR. You can easily see some glitches in this photo, something I hope won't happen in polymer. This is also the least detailed area in the map at the moment (which is why I chose it for a screenshot).

It was surprisingly difficult to get to a position to take both photos which didn't show some kind of super obvious overdraw problem.

hmm iam having the same glitch type effects you have in the current map iam working on, ive sent my map of to helix to see what can be done, seems to glitch most when viewing from within sectors branched of a TROR bunch

[Micky C]

Yeah it can get really nasty at some angles. Also I get squished when going under a certain sector that looks completely open in game, it's a ROR sector and I don't know what to make of it.

[Stabs]

good thing is we both have these errors and i am fairly certain i am constructing stuff correctly, although i have not encountered the squishing error yet.

[Helixhorned]

DanM, on 31 May 2011 - 05:55 PM, said:

hmm iam having the same glitch type effects you have in the current map iam working on, ive sent my map of to helix to see what can be done, seems to glitch most when viewing from within sectors branched of a TROR bunch

If you're using Polymost, be aware that it's handling only very rudimentary cases. I don't know whether I'll ever take care of it because that would require understanding Polymost's drawing more deeply. Maybe one day I take a look at the source and go "aha, that's the analogue of umost/dmost in Polymost", but maybe not. So summarizing:

classic: works good with TROR
Polymost: uncertain future for TROR
Polymer: the future for TROR

Micky C, on 31 May 2011 - 11:15 PM, said:

Yeah it can get really nasty at some angles. Also I get squished when going under a certain sector that looks completely open in game, it's a ROR sector and I don't know what to make of it.

This is interesting. Maybe the sector is simply too small in height and some game code likes you squish you on that occasion? TROR is designed with roughly at least Duke-height sectors in mind, after all.

[Micky C]

Helixhorned, on 02 June 2011 - 05:14 AM, said:

Polymer: the future for TROR

This is interesting. Maybe the sector is simply too small in height and some game code likes you squish you on that occasion? TROR is designed with roughly at least Duke-height sectors in mind, after all.

Yeah hopefully polymer will be capable of taking TROR further than anyone ever though possible, in good time.

With the sector squishing, the TROR ceiling is at the same height as the floor, which is probably what's doing the actual squishing. The squished sprites that go from the floor to the ceiling, go all the way from the bottom of the lower extension, to the ceiling of the upper extension. However I have at least 2 more setups which are pretty much identical, yet the squishing only happens in one of them, and it's the same one each time. It's a staircase so I don't know of any other way to handle the ROR than to have the lower bunch ROR ceiling pretty much two or three units above the floor. I hope that made sense. I wasn't really asking anything, just stating the situation.

[Helixhorned]

Wait, are you modelling a staircase by letting each step have an own TROR level? That's precisely the thing it won't handle gracefully, so glitches like that are to be expected. Also, I don't understand why you need a sector of zero height ("TROR ceiling is at the same height as the floor").

[Danukem]

Helixhorned, on 02 June 2011 - 12:48 PM, said:

Wait, are you modelling a staircase by letting each step have an own TROR level? That's precisely the thing it won't handle gracefully, so glitches like that are to be expected. Also, I don't understand why you need a sector of zero height ("TROR ceiling is at the same height as the floor").

Heh, if you add a new mapping feature, there will always be people who push it beyond any sane limit and then complain about it not working. Sometimes they get amazing results, though.

[Stabs]

well there is the map seeing as mediafire wont work and i cant attach stuff in PMs


Iam only using 8-bit with this and its a bit too glitchy, i am fairly certain iam doing it right,

Attached File(s)

•  cc06.zip (13.69K)
  Number of downloads: 275

[Micky C]

Helixhorned, on 02 June 2011 - 12:48 PM, said:

I don't understand why you need a sector of zero height ("TROR ceiling is at the same height as the floor").

Hmm yeah I had a think about it and I didn't need the ROR in the staircase afterall, so that helps reduce the glitching and the staircase squish is gone.
The odd thing is the part that's causing the most obvious visual glitching isn't a ROR sector or anything. In the last pic above, there are two short passages on the bottom floor that have a HOM effect.

Edit: I wonder how many projects are going to be worked on in the next few months due to DNF

[Stabs]

well ror has taken nearly as long as dnf so damned if iam letting that goto waste, viva la ror and wgr2 is really nice to map in

[Helixhorned]

DanM, I took a look at your map and have to say there's some pretty complex architecture there! Those glitches seem to be of the "subway" category (the upper subway in trueror1.map), which I described a while ago. It's rather unfortunate that this is such a common case, so maybe I need to find a way to split up the scene into even more passes^*. One thing I found peculiar, and which is probably a consequence of the above, is that you have your bunch planes cover more than just the "air"/portal between the upper and lower parts. I would prefer constructing things such that solid stuff is always void space, and create TROR extensions only when really necessary, but I see that it's not always possible with the renderer limitations right now.

^*Don't count on it happening anytime soon, though. Need some RL/RW stuff done first.

[Stabs]

I wouldnt drive yourself mad with 8-bit ror, throughout history coders have attempted it and it has been a mess although this is probably the easiest and most straightforward way for ROR ever, craig cant seem to get it working how he would like it too and he seems like some kind of rocket scientist, i really think this is going to end up polymer only for complex geometry, its really hard to make polymer glitch like 8-bit

[Micky C]

I'm still working on this. I got an hour's worth of mapping done at school today, which I used to continue work on the dukebike section leading up to up to the building. The course itself is basically done, it just needs some tweaking, and a fair amount of detailing. Then I'll have to figure out how to connect it to the main area, which might be a bit tricky, so I might need help with that when the time comes. I'm leaving TROR until the last minute with the dukebike section so hopefully that'll make it easier to connect.