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Is that a bus?!

#31

View PostTX, on 08 April 2011 - 05:30 PM, said:

I don't think anything was "cut out and replaced with older and much shittier models," I think they simply reworked things to optimize the polygon count and allow more things to be happening on-screen at once. I also think a lot of the leaked content wasn't final, e.g it was more like the source models you'd generate your normal maps and everything from than the final model with a lower polycount you'd have in an actual shipping game. I'm sure comparing any work in progress zbrush export with the final asset will look like a pretty big drop in quality.

You know, it's not really worth it and it's definitely not what I want to happen just so I can prove my point but if the weapons from the final game will look identical to how they looked in the leaked screenshots, I could potentially have my final laugh at all those who wanted to keep high hopes.
I could even potentially rub it in, in hope that it could help some people here heal themselves of naivety.
Not sure about you, but the nuclear shockwave of disappointments that the gaming industry has left behind int he last 5 years has made me immune to bullshit.
I've been disappointed by games too many times in the recent past, to afford to have high hopes and expectations for yet another game that seems to have all the ingredients to fail it's intended goals in many areas.
It is incredibly obvious to me that this game is already in need of a HRP and it's not even out yet...
Whether the gameplay will be good or not it remains to be seen.


Update!
There is a HUGE debate over at the gearbox forums about this exact same topic!
It has exploded over there with hundreds of posters etc!
http://gbxforums.gea...ad.php?t=119772


This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 08 April 2011 - 08:37 PM

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#32

Posted Image

This post has been edited by wayskobfssae: 08 April 2011 - 09:08 PM

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User is offline   MrBlackCat 

#33

Hehehe... yeah, I had a bit to say over there. Thread was no salvageable in my opinion though. I tried to work with the guy. I think I did anyway.

I don't think the bus looks good. Look at the HRP models and such... a lot better than this bus.
Just because I still play my Nintendo, doesn't mean I don't LIKE higher resolution graphics and better models. I like fun. I am not cancelling my pre-order over this though. (hehehe)

I also agree with TX relative to reducing poly count in these big open spaces... I suggested the bus might be a throw-away basically, but the OP of the GearBox thread said the bus is used all over the place. I did not verify this however.

Maybe since they have the extra month for fixing their A bugs, the graphics guys will be cleaning up all of this stuff and catch this bus if it really is used all over the place. Randy said directly they are polishing...

MrBlackCat
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#34

View PostMrBlackCat, on 08 April 2011 - 09:34 PM, said:

Hehehe... yeah, I had a bit to say over there. Thread was no salvageable in my opinion though. I tried to work with the guy. I think I did anyway.

I don't think the bus looks good. Look at the HRP models and such... a lot better than this bus.
Just because I still play my Nintendo, doesn't mean I don't LIKE higher resolution graphics and better models. I like fun. I am not cancelling my pre-order over this though. (hehehe)

I also agree with TX relative to reducing poly count in these big open spaces... I suggested the bus might be a throw-away basically, but the OP of the GearBox thread said the bus is used all over the place. I did not verify this however.

Maybe since they have the extra month for fixing their A bugs, the graphics guys will be cleaning up all of this stuff and catch this bus if it really is used all over the place. Randy said directly they are polishing...

MrBlackCat


That thread was epic, and the op of that topic was also a cool ass mofo!
It got closed though.
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User is offline   Outtagum 

#35

View PostShadow Warrior Caleb Duke, on 08 April 2011 - 05:12 PM, said:

yeah.
the newer ones look like they tried to make them scarier, but they come off as "over-the-top" predictable...
yet the screeny you posted, looks somewhat original and like a real -actually-freaky-alien.


The new model looks closer to Duke Nukem 3D.

I do agree that those bug-eyes look creepier.
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#36

View PostMr.Deviance, on 08 April 2011 - 05:17 PM, said:

I don't know why but ever since I saw the first jace hall video and then the leak videos, I constantly got the feeling that at some point between 2007 and 2009 the game had much better looking weapons and characters that for some really weird reason, got cut out and replaced with older and much shittier models.
The best example here being the ripper shown in the first jace hall video that imo looked much more detailed than the one from today's videos.
Also that trooper model looks much more detailed and overall realistic.
Maybe I am paranoid maybe not, but usually when I predict such things they always and I mean ALWAYS turn out to be true!


I think you're talking bullshit, sir.
Explain me why the f*ck would they want to replace the good looking weapons and characters, with much older and shittier models ?
That's really really stupid.
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#37

That's bullshit right there.
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#38

View Postthemaniacboy, on 09 April 2011 - 04:16 AM, said:

I think you're talking bullshit, sir.
Explain me why the f*ck would they want to replace the good looking weapons and characters, with much older and shittier models ?
That's really really stupid.

Maybe because their dev team budget was getting really low and they couldn't afford to finish the new stuff that they started or maybe because they've lost the newer assets through some dumb ass move and remaking them would have taken lots of time and money again?
I don't know how such a dumb retarded thing could happen but if it did happen, then wow is DNF cursed.

This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 09 April 2011 - 06:41 AM

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#39

View PostMr.Deviance, on 09 April 2011 - 06:40 AM, said:

Maybe because their dev team budget was getting really low and they couldn't afford to finish the new stuff that they started or maybe because they've lost the newer assets through some dumb ass move and remaking them would have taken lots of time and money again?
I don't know how such a dumb retarded thing could happen but if it did happen, then wow is DNF cursed.


No, even if their Dev team budget was really low they wouldn't replace GOOD textures with BAD textures.
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#40

Only reason i can see is that they hit some kind of limit, but that is not very likely. Maybe it's footage from the older jace hall show.
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#41

View Postthemaniacboy, on 09 April 2011 - 07:21 AM, said:

No, even if their Dev team budget was really low they wouldn't replace GOOD textures with BAD textures.


Not intentionally, but I 'have' seen this happen by accident on MMO's before. During an update, somebody types one wrong number and suddenly assets that are over a year old end up replacing more recent ones. It can happen. And it's even more likely since everything got transferred from 3DR to Gearbox. That's like stuffing everything into boxes and a move from one home to another. And no matter how careful you are, something almost always ends up disappearing or misplaced.

This post has been edited by wayskobfssae: 09 April 2011 - 12:12 PM

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#42

Wow, i wuld like to see that xD

But i don't think that is the case here, mainly because the most of the team is actually the same as it was when 3DR owned the ip.
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User is offline   Raziel 

#43

View PostMr.Deviance, on 08 April 2011 - 05:39 PM, said:

Update!
There is a HUGE debate over at the gearbox forums about this exact same topic!
It has exploded over there with hundreds of posters etc!
http://gbxforums.gea...ad.php?t=119772

I can't help but notice that my opening post from this thread was copy & pasted, like, word for word, picture included. Just to clarify, I'm not FlashBack.

View PostJamesCassidy, on 08 April 2011 - 07:00 AM, said:

So I am guessing Raziel is not playing Duke Nukem Forever....seeing how he hates the graphics so much. Understandable. I mean every game can't be like Crysis after all. Imagine a world where every game was made with the CryEngine 3? Hmm...

Firstly, I don't like Crysis, great graphics, but the game just didn't do it for me.

That aside, please go back and read my post again: "Something like this won't ruin the game for me or anything, but it will cause me to pause a second to admire how out of place it looks". I still play and love Final Fantasy VII, so it's not about me being a graphics whore or anything, I just think that bus looks hell out of place. Like, you've got all of these good looking cars and other props, but then there's this low-poly shitty looking bus right in your face. It's kinda hard to miss. If everything else looked the same it probably wouldn't bother me as much, but there is such a huge gap in quality between that bus and everything else in that scene that it just feels out of place. Like I said, it might be a prop left over from an ancient version of the game that just never got replaced, I dunno, but I hope they will find the time to fix it.

This post has been edited by Raziel: 09 April 2011 - 06:52 PM

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User is offline   X-Vector 

#44

Posted Image

"Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus"
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#45

View PostMr.Deviance, on 08 April 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:

This is the 2007 teaser bus people.
At first sight, this bus from 2007 looks slightly more detailed than the one seen in the recent builds...............

[Ps. Is it just me or did the trooper model look much more detailed and cool than it looks now?[/size]

Yes and yes.
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#46

View Postwayskobfssae, on 09 April 2011 - 12:11 PM, said:

Not intentionally, but I 'have' seen this happen by accident on MMO's before. During an update, somebody types one wrong number and suddenly assets that are over a year old end up replacing more recent ones. It can happen. And it's even more likely since everything got transferred from 3DR to Gearbox. That's like stuffing everything into boxes and a move from one home to another. And no matter how careful you are, something almost always ends up disappearing or misplaced.


That's an good point you got there.
It is possible, but if the game releases and i see this bus, then i don't think they made an mistake.
If that happens, they probably ran out of textures or they didn't care.
But it's very unlikely that this will annoy me when i am kicking some ass.
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#47

View Postthemaniacboy, on 10 April 2011 - 07:54 AM, said:

That's an good point you got there.
It is possible, but if the game releases and i see this bus, then i don't think they made an mistake.
If that happens, they probably ran out of textures or they didn't care.
But it's very unlikely that this will annoy me when i am kicking some ass.


At this point, if I were Gearbox, I'd get a new bus model, but somewhere on the map, leave the old one there and get Duke to comment on it.
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#48

View Postwayskobfssae, on 10 April 2011 - 09:37 AM, said:

At this point, if I were Gearbox, I'd get a new bus model, but somewhere on the map, leave the old one there and get Duke to comment on it.


Yeah, just for old times sake.
It would be funny though, if they would actually do that.
I also got more excited about the game, when i read, that Duke never said the same line twice.
That's great, i wonder how many lines they recorder ?

Well, i guess we'll all read that in the book The History, Legacy & Legend
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User is offline   Outtagum 

#49

I hope this delay has to do with them remodeling the bus. If not I will be very disappointed! :dukegoof:





:D
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User is offline   You 

#50

Guys look, even if I'm wrong and the bus hasn't been redone, with all this bullshit you're stirring it has either been done now, is top priority now, or they can't redo it for time/tech reasons. Lets levae it.
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User is offline   MrBlackCat 

#51

View PostZor, on 10 April 2011 - 02:01 PM, said:

I hope this delay has to do with them remodeling the bus. If not I will be very disappointed! :dukegoof:

:D

I agree... I just messaged GearBox to say the I was cancelling my pre-order for Balls of Steel until they can prove to me with a hi-resolution image that they have fixed it. This is an outrage and..."I am mad... and I am not going to take it anymore."
(Ok... not really... at all. Hehehe)
MrBlackCat
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User is offline   Raziel 

#52

It's not going to ruin the game for me or anything, but that bus does look like shit. I suspect it's a relic from the past, most likely created as a part of the map itself that was left over from an ancient build. Given that you can't see through the windows or anything and that it is basically a solid block, that bus was most likely used as an occluder at some point (a giant object that basically blocks your view so that you don't have to render the objects behind it until you've passed the obstacle). Given it's current placement, I can only theorize that the road has been widened and that the bus is only there now as something that no one ever bothered removing...

Honestly though, now that wayskobfssae mentions it, I'd actually prefer them leaving that bus in the game as-is, but having Duke say something like: "That's one damn shitty looking bus" or something, that'd be hilarious.
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  • Polymancer

#53

View Postwayskobfssae, on 10 April 2011 - 09:37 AM, said:

At this point, if I were Gearbox, I'd get a new bus model, but somewhere on the map, leave the old one there and get Duke to comment on it.

An even better idea, would be to have one level entirely populated by monsters and props from one of the early builds of the game.
The EDF develops what they think is a time machine and they send Duke back to 'The Past' to fix the alien invasion before it occurs, but instead, he gets transferred instead to a parallel universe where the 2001 version of the game was released and is 'Duke Nukem Forever'.*
It would be like that Wolfenstein level in the middle of Doom. Duke has to use his improved graphical prowess to kick the aliens asses.


* Hey, this is the EDF - The same EDF that has had 15 years to study all the alien technology from the first invasion still got their asses handed to them.
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#54

View PostTea Monster, on 11 April 2011 - 06:01 AM, said:

An even better idea, would be to have one level entirely populated by monsters and props from one of the early builds of the game.

Cool idea. I hope the old game stuff will be released so that the community can do this.
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  • Yatta is a dictator! :)

#55

View PostJamesCassidy, on 08 April 2011 - 07:00 AM, said:

So I am guessing Raziel is not playing Duke Nukem Forever....seeing how he hates the graphics so much. Understandable. I mean every game can't be like Crysis after all. Imagine a world where every game was made with the CryEngine 3? Hmm...

Yeah I can, people would still be bitching the graphics aren't good enough. I miss the good ole days too, Wayskobfssae.


Actually i've been playing Crysis 3 on my Gerforce 8600 and it plays fine on very high graphics!

Every now and then I am thinking things are real in that game. So saying the graphics arn't good enough! are you insane!
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#56

View PostMr.Deviance, on 08 April 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:

This is the 2007 teaser bus people.
At first sight, this bus from 2007 looks slightly more detailed than the one seen in the recent builds................
Posted Image
Ps. Is it just me or did the trooper model look much more detailed and cool than it looks now?



Seriously, guys -- seriously. Calm down, take a breather or two, and realize this is most likely a texture memory bug in a beta version of the game.

This engine started as an Unreal based engine, and they do have stream loading in DNF's engine. Anybody fancy playing an Unreal Game ever see the graphics look like crap and then all of a sudden they "Pop In" and it looks good?

This is a result of how the game loads textures in the memory, and a similar process called LoD Culling (Level of Detail) that lowers the texture resolutions and poly counts of objects based on distance to the player. It's most likely an LoD bug -- relax, that's why it's not "official" footage.
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#57

View PostLaokin, on 22 April 2011 - 09:17 PM, said:

Seriously, guys -- seriously. Calm down, take a breather or two, and realize this is most likely a texture memory bug in a beta version of the game.

This engine started as an Unreal based engine, and they do have stream loading in DNF's engine. Anybody fancy playing an Unreal Game ever see the graphics look like crap and then all of a sudden they "Pop In" and it looks good?

This is a result of how the game loads textures in the memory, and a similar process called LoD Culling (Level of Detail) that lowers the texture resolutions and poly counts of objects based on distance to the player. It's most likely an LoD bug -- relax, that's why it's not "official" footage.


Good point.
GTA IV has this horrible texture pop-in on patch 6 and 7, i stood next a building that had no doors or windows.
I am sure almost everything will be fine when the time comes.
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User is offline   Trent 

#58

View Postthemaniacboy, on 24 April 2011 - 01:04 PM, said:

Good point.
GTA IV has this horrible texture pop-in on patch 6 and 7, i stood next a building that had no doors or windows.
I am sure almost everything will be fine when the time comes.


Bugs aside, it could even be that higher resolution textures for certain objects simply couldnt fit in the memory budget in the first place. Texture take up a lot of memory, exponentially more as the resolution rises. They could whack very high resolution textures on everything, but then they wouldn't have the memory spare to use for models, animations, sounds and so on. Generally this would mean less going on in the world, less interactivity and so on. Personally Id prefer more going on in the environment than pointlessly high resolution textures on objects which don't need it. Using GTA4 as an example,that game's got a lot of graphical detail and seemingly a lot going on but, in all actual fact, has a very simple and pretty much static environment compared to what Duke seems to be attempting.

When Pitchford responded to a question about how "bad" the graphics were he wasn't kidding when he said you have to sacrifice graphical fidelity in order to pull off highly interactive and environmentally detailed worlds. It's easy to sit in the arm chair and criticise developers for not pushing the boundaries in all areas and settling for sub-par elements but at the end of the day that's quite naive. I have no doubt a good number of textures have dropped in resolution and models dropped in polycount between earlier leaks and now in order to fit it all in the memory budget. However, cutting things down like that is always a painful and well thought out decision. Developers have to weigh up what assets are more important, which are costing too much, which don't need as much detail, which are more visible to the players, which take up more screen space, how often something is used, along with god knows how many other factors. Chances are the bus in question didn't fall into the 'high priority' pile as a ton of other things were no doubt more important, hence not using a 4096x4096 texture.
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  #59

Gearbox/Triptych does listen and watch fan feedback. Wouldn't surprise me to see this bus look a little better on release. Unless the bus is used on just one map, then they will not care.

Of course we will need screenshots of the bus in question, When It's Done, to really judge its looks.
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#60

View PostTrent, on 25 April 2011 - 04:28 AM, said:

When Pitchford responded to a question about how "bad" the graphics were he wasn't kidding when he said you have to sacrifice graphical fidelity in order to pull off highly interactive and environmentally detailed worlds. It's easy to sit in the arm chair and criticise developers for not pushing the boundaries in all areas and settling for sub-par elements but at the end of the day that's quite naive. I have no doubt a good number of textures have dropped in resolution and models dropped in polycount between earlier leaks and now in order to fit it all in the memory budget. However, cutting things down like that is always a painful and well thought out decision. Developers have to weigh up what assets are more important, which are costing too much, which don't need as much detail, which are more visible to the players, which take up more screen space, how often something is used, along with god knows how many other factors. Chances are the bus in question didn't fall into the 'high priority' pile as a ton of other things were no doubt more important, hence not using a 4096x4096 texture.



With the PC version, can't they just ship the game with maximum quality content, and include options to reduce the graphics quality? It seems a shame to reduce resolutions and so on when there are people out there capable of playing the game with maxed settings.
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