[Raziel]

This image is taken from the last Jace Hall episode, showing a very recent build of the game. In short, is that a bus??? What is that, like 10 polygons?!


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[Sinisterambo]

That was an old 3D Realms bus from the 2007 teaser with the assault trooper attacking Duke and his head swaying.

[Trent]

Raziel, on 08 April 2011 - 02:01 AM, said:

This image is taken from the last Jace Hall episode, showing a very recent build of the game. In short, is that a bus??? What is that, like 10 polygons?!


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Because blurry shaky cam pictures with a ton of compression artefacts are the perfect way to critiqueing the detail of objects...

[Fox Mulder]

Problem?

[wayskobfssae]

I'm starting to have fond dreams of the days when all the whining was, "3DR, FINISH IT ALREADY!"

[Loke]

wayskobfssae, on 08 April 2011 - 03:53 AM, said:

I'm starting to have fond dreams of the days when all the whining was, "3DR, FINISH IT ALREADY!"

Yup, now it's all "not good enough".

[Micky C]

It sure is a lot better than the fire truck in Duke Nukem 3D.

[Mr.Deviance]

Judging from that, I would say a HRP project needs to start from day 1 of release.

[Raziel]

It's best looking at it on the video since they rotate around it a bit. It's really low poly in comparison to most of the other things in the game. The cars actually have quite a bit of detail to them, this specific bus just looks silly and out of place though. It doesn't even seem to have holes around the wheels or any other details other than the mirrors, the whole bus just comes straight out of the floor, like it's part of the level itself, but not actually a static mesh. It looks like something that might have been left over from an early build (2001 even?).

The model that was posted by Fox Mulder is a much higher quality bus compared to this one. So yeah, I do see a problem. If they've got a decent looking bus, why the hell did they use this one?!

Don't get me wrong, most of the stuff in the recent footage has been pretty decent, but from time to time you seem to run into stuff like this where a single object looks so bad it's actually quite funny. That bus is an extreme example though, I have not seen anything else in the game that looks bad to that degree. Fixing things like this might be why they're delaying the release, it may actually be one of the items they need to address before shipping.

Something like this won't ruin the game for me or anything, but it will cause me to pause a second to admire how out of place it looks.

[You]

Raziel, on 08 April 2011 - 06:03 AM, said:

It's best looking at it on the video since they rotate around it a bit. It's really low poly in comparison to most of the other things in the game. The cars actually have quite a bit of detail to them, this specific bus just looks silly and out of place though. It doesn't even seem to have holes around the wheels or any other details other than the mirrors, the whole bus just comes straight out of the floor, like it's part of the level itself, but not actually a static mesh. It looks like something that might have been left over from an early build (2001 even?).

The model that was posted by Fox Mulder is a much higher quality bus compared to this one. So yeah, I do see a problem. If they've got a decent looking bus, why the hell did they use this one?!

Don't get me wrong, most of the stuff in the recent footage has been pretty decent, but from time to time you seem to run into stuff like this where a single object looks so bad it's actually quite funny. That bus is an extreme example though, I have not seen anything else in the game that looks bad to that degree. Fixing things like this might be why they're delaying the release, it may actually be one of the items they need to address before shipping.

Something like this won't ruin the game for me or anything, but it will cause me to pause a second to admire how out of place it looks.

I noticed that bus as soon as the video was posted Raziel. I didn't bother saying anything as I'm taking it that the bus has been redone, as has a lot of the models in the game.

[zwieback]

even me as duke fanboy almost vomited into my screen when i saw that model. i hope it's really only the camera.

[JamesCassidy]

So I am guessing Raziel is not playing Duke Nukem Forever....seeing how he hates the graphics so much. Understandable. I mean every game can't be like Crysis after all. Imagine a world where every game was made with the CryEngine 3? Hmm...

Yeah I can, people would still be bitching the graphics aren't good enough. I miss the good ole days too, Wayskobfssae.

[bullerbullerseven]

I don't really care how that bus looks. The most important is how the enemies looks, especially those big aliens, and the aliens that comes very close to you, like the troopers. And ofcourse, the feces needs to be at least 100 polygons.

[Hendricks266]

Graphics not good enough? Call the waambulance.

[MusicallyInspired]

Who cares.

[TerminX]

I don't think the bus looks that bad; you can plainly see from the rear wheels that it's not just some flat rectangular low poly construction that doesn't even have modeled wheels like some of you have been saying. It looks like the mesh could use some smoothing around the front of the thing, specifically the curvature near the roof and on the bumper, but other than that it doesn't really look nearly as bad as has been suggested. It also looks like it might have a flat in the front, giving the impression that it's "coming out of the ground" as someone noted.

[wayskobfssae]

Duke Nukem's opinion of buses. "Bikes are better. Buses are just dull boxes with wheels."

[Master Fibbles]

What if it is just a prop? Not in the game, but in the game it is a prop.

Anyway, it does look odd, but not necessarily from a graphics point of view...but in a "I ride the bus all the time and that doesn't look like any bus I've been in" point of view.

[X-Vector]

JamesCassidy, on 08 April 2011 - 07:00 AM, said:

I miss the good ole days too, Wayskobfssae.

Nostalgia sucks, old man.

[zwieback]

but let me add to what i wrote earlier the following: i don't care about graphics, but i was working as vehicle modeller for a gamecompany that creates a transport simulation .. so that's why i was a bit meh when i saw it

[bullerbullerseven]

How can you say that nostalgia sucks? It makes games better. I have a special feeling for games i like, even though they aren't really that good. That is why i have been gaming since i was 5 years old...

Oh, and to answer this thread. Yes, that is a bus.

[DavoX]

The bus does look a bit low poly but I won't give a damn when I blast some pigcop to pieces.

I wouldn't count on the bus being redone or updated as the footage is pretty recent it seems. But I won't sweat over it, I just want to HAVE FUN!!

[Mr.Deviance]

This is the 2007 teaser bus people.
At first sight, this bus from 2007 looks slightly more detailed than the one seen in the recent builds................

Ps. Is it just me or did the trooper model look much more detailed and cool than it looks now?

[OpenMaw]

The same exact bus.

This just proves what good lighting can do for you. That scene from the teaser has some really intense lighting. The shot from Jace Hall's footage is a totally different angle, distance, and lighting scheme. But its the same exact model from what I can tell.

[TerminX]

TX, on 08 April 2011 - 09:27 AM, said:

I don't think the bus looks that bad; you can plainly see from the rear wheels that it's not just some flat rectangular low poly construction that doesn't even have modeled wheels like some of you have been saying. It looks like the mesh could use some smoothing around the front of the thing, specifically the curvature near the roof and on the bumper, but other than that it doesn't really look nearly as bad as has been suggested. It also looks like it might have a flat in the front, giving the impression that it's "coming out of the ground" as someone noted.

Heh, I got downvoted for saying I didn't think a bus looked that bad? Of course, being an administrator I can see who gave me reputation points, I just don't understand why.

[Mr.Deviance]

TX, on 08 April 2011 - 04:54 PM, said:

Heh, I got downvoted for saying I didn't think a bus looked that bad? Of course, being an administrator I can see who gave me reputation points, I just don't understand why.

Maybe because somebody didn't agree with you when you said it doesn't look that bad?
I happen to think that it looks extremely bad, and I say it without caring how many thumbs up or down I get.
I strongly believe that if you say that bus does not look that bad, you are simply too tolerant with this game.
I agree with Raziel entirely. When I first saw that bus I had a shock (shock and awe anybody?)
However I didn't actually start a new topic about it because I feared that people will start calling me a nitpicker again or a graphics whore.
Now that this topic exists I think it needs clarification.
It's not just about a freaking bus here, it's about the entire game.
You would have to be at least naive to think that if that bus looks so low poly, it's going to be the only prop in the game that looks so bad.
Obviously the car props were made in sets and if one looks low poly, chances are they all do, including trucks and vans and other tanks and shit.

Why are these props so important you ask? Well because they form the universe you roam in...
If the universe you roam in, looks like a low poly funfair even though it's supposed to look like a city, then the game will keep reminding you that you are playing a game and immersion will never actually kick in!
A game that can't be get you inside it's atmosphere and make you forget you are playing a game is a dead game.

It's cool that they've had time to give you the ability to throw turds in the game and look at 3d jiggle boob animations, yet the world itself looks like a box with blurry textures.

[wayskobfssae]

Amazing how much something as simple as a bus can do.

Now I know how Obama feels.

[Shadow Warrior Caleb Duke]

Mr.Deviance, on 08 April 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:

This is the 2007 teaser bus people.
At first sight, this bus from 2007 looks slightly more detailed than the one seen in the recent builds................
Ps. Is it just me or did the trooper model look much more detailed and cool than it looks now?

yeah.
the newer ones look like they tried to make them scarier, but they come off as "over-the-top" predictable...
yet the screeny you posted, looks somewhat original and like a real -actually-freaky-alien.

[Mr.Deviance]

Shadow Warrior Caleb Duke, on 08 April 2011 - 05:12 PM, said:

yeah.
the newer ones look like they tried to make them scarier, but they come off as "over-the-top" predictable...
yet the screeny you posted, looks somewhat original and like a real -actually-freaky-alien.

I don't know why but ever since I saw the first jace hall video and then the leak videos, I constantly got the feeling that at some point between 2007 and 2009 the game had much better looking weapons and characters that for some really weird reason, got cut out and replaced with older and much shittier models.
The best example here being the ripper shown in the first jace hall video that imo looked much more detailed than the one from today's videos.
Also that trooper model looks much more detailed and overall realistic.
Maybe I am paranoid maybe not, but usually when I predict such things they always and I mean ALWAYS turn out to be true!

[TerminX]

I don't think anything was "cut out and replaced with older and much shittier models," I think they simply reworked things to optimize the polygon count and allow more things to be happening on-screen at once. I also think a lot of the leaked content wasn't final, e.g it was more like the source models you'd generate your normal maps and everything from than the final model with a lower polycount you'd have in an actual shipping game. I'm sure comparing any work in progress zbrush export with the final asset will look like a pretty big drop in quality.