[Kathy]

Then you can try restoring something from it. But it should not be possible if you erased literally every bit.

[Jeff]

Cathy, on 19 May 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Then you can try restoring something from it. But it should not be possible if you erased literally every bit.

So I guess when the program creates these encrypted files and then deletes them at the end, it's pretty much toast and it's safe to recycle?

[Hank]

Jeff, on 18 May 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

Software is called Eraser. Found it using a random Google search.

It's Open Source too. Thanks man. Some files at the office need to be shredded, and I am tired of my current one, so I'll give this a go.

added
This one pass or 35 depends on how much you want to play. If I were a criminal I certainly would use at least seven passes before the cops show up

[Kathy]

Jeff, on 19 May 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

So I guess when the program creates these encrypted files and then deletes them at the end, it's pretty much toast and it's safe to recycle?

I don't know exactly what kind of encrypted(from what source?) files it creates, but erasing something and then writing crap in its place should do the job. Although, writing 0s also should do it which proper(long) formatting is supposed to do.

2Hank: If you're a criminal then you should have used encryption to begin with.

[Master Fibbles]

Running the drive over a powerful magnet should also do a pretty decent job of wiping magnetic hard drives. Grant it, having a powerful magnet lying around may not be that common.

[Forge]

wipe it, then pop open the case and bust up the disk if you're worried about it.
if they're going to be re-used by someone other than yourself, wipe it (7 pass minimum), format it, then install an OS like linux over the top of it.
i doubt anybody is going to come after you for some pirated software, so i really don't want to know what's on them that has you so worried

[Kathy]

Forge, on 19 May 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

wipe it (7 pass minimum), format it, then install an OS like linux over the top of it.

Could you explain why?

[Master Fibbles]

Yeah. There is that too. Unless you have child porn or top secret government files (possibly also child porn), I fail to see what the big deal is about super wiping a hard drive you are discarding/reselling. Very few people are going to go through the work of scavenging your old files just because. If you do have financial data or passwords (to financial data) on your hard drive, it would likely be more work than it is worth for someone to dig it up from a formatted drive.

Caution is good, paranoia is crazy.


I suspect that installing a (free) OS over a formatted drive helps to cover over any data that could be mined out.

[Sangman]

Forge, on 19 May 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

so i really don't want to know what's on them that has you so worried

Just a matter of privacy, I would be the same way selling hard drives.

[Hank]

It's the principle.
When I first started programming on Vista, my updated programs were not updated somehow, except in the run command from WX Dev++. Then I used Killdisk and analysed my hard drive. My, what I thought deleted programs, were not just not deleted they were only hidden, and some setting only known to the Vista makers, opened the previous version and not the current set I thought I am testing. So I needed to rename the program file name or learn quick registry editing or how to use a shredder, and get a better IDE as well.

Ever since then I shredd files. It may look like paranoia to some, but out of principle, when I give a computer a command to delete my shit, delete my shit. Don't put it in a fucking recycle bin, don't hide it, don't just disable it or what ever moronic idea MS has, get rid of it.

Bottom line - thanks Jeff, I like Eraser

[Kathy]

Mr.Flibble, on 19 May 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Yeah. There is that too. Unless you have child porn or top secret government files (possibly also child porn), I fail to see what the big deal is about super wiping a hard drive you are discarding/reselling. Very few people are going to go through the work of scavenging your old files just because.

Digital photos is the reason enough. While I'm not gonna claim that all people shoot themselves naked, but my assumption is that out of curiosity(not to show anyone) many do. Or you might have had emails or other files containing personal information on the hard drive.

Hank, on 19 May 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

When I first started programming on Vista, my updated programs were not updated somehow, except in the run command from WX Dev++. Then I used Killdisk and analysed my hard drive. My, what I thought deleted programs, were not just not deleted they were only hidden, and some setting only known to the Vista makers, opened the previous version and not the current set I thought I am testing. So I needed to rename the program file name or learn quick registry editing or how to use a shredder, and get a better IDE as well.

I don't understand. If OS deletes a file's address from HDD then it's as good as deleted for OS. Sure, you can recover(assign another address) is quite easily, but as far as OS and all the software are concerned it is gone once address is wiped. Though I'm not talking about Recycle Bin which another thing entirely.

Quote

Ever since then I shredd files. It may look like paranoia to some, but out of principle, when I give a computer a command to delete my shit, delete my shit. Don't put it in a fucking recycle bin, don't hide it, don't just disable it or what ever moronic idea MS has, get rid of it.

Maybe an option to "completely erase" should be there, but the default delete method is pretty much used everywhere, because otherwise it would consume too much time.

[Hank]

@ Cathy - Not sure about the time aspect.
I just clocked it, I destroyed my song collection from last week, one pass, +500MB in less then three seconds.
The catch with Eraser is the out front set up you need to do, I never used it until today, so I did not time this.

As for the story with WX Dev++, it's true, the actual developer and I took three long month to figure this one out. Because I (and so did he) thought it is WX Dev++ fault.

[Kathy]

+500Mb is not much. Deleting GBs will be pain in the ass cause it'll take around the same time it takes to copy said files. Either way there is no point if you can just delete the address. If you want privacy and crap then use encryption and/or special software like Eraser/Scrubber/etc.

How did you delete files in case of WX? Deleting file from a partition's address table should be as good as deleting file itself from OS's point of view.

[Jeff]

Forge, on 19 May 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

wipe it, then pop open the case and bust up the disk if you're worried about it.
if they're going to be re-used by someone other than yourself, wipe it (7 pass minimum), format it, then install an OS like linux over the top of it.
i doubt anybody is going to come after you for some pirated software, so i really don't want to know what's on them that has you so worried

It's getting recycled, so it won't be used by anyone else. They'll probably take the disk, melt it and use the scrap metal and such to make a bus shelter or something.

[Hank]

Cathy, on 19 May 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

How did you delete files in case of WX? Deleting file from a partition's address table should be as good as deleting file itself from OS's point of view.

I forgot the details, and Microsoft is by default right 100% of the times, and did not answer our questions.

To delete an exe program you have to have admin privileges. At the same time it is somewhat pointless to play admin and test your software. In this case the OS decided when to delete a given programs and when not. Thus when you entered the 'run' command in WXDev++ it opened up the deleted program that it (Vista/7) thought should not have been deleted in the first place and ignored the one you actually thought you are testing. To make quick consecutive test with your code, you had to compile and install your program first. Pretty much making the Run command useless. I think Tony fixed this by now, or does everything in admin mode.

[Kathy]

Hank, on 19 May 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

To delete an exe program you have to have admin privileges.

That's not true.

[Hank]

Cathy, on 19 May 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

That's not true.

Thou shall not make sweeping statements when Cathy might read it.

OK, another try. Can we agree that a program executive file has limited access for a general users by default? Unless your OS version differed from ours, you could not override a program from inside the IDE. Trying to do so gave us very interesting crashes. Thus you simply deleted the file by hand first. For that you needed to be in the admin mode or be a user with admin privileges. And so on.

[Kathy]

Hank, on 19 May 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

Thus you simply deleted the file by hand first. For that you needed to be in the admin mode or be a user with admin privileges.

No, you don't need that. You just need to have proper security privileges for that file/folder. For example, users can delete whatever they want from their 'My Documents' folder.

P.S. Once again I couldn't sleep tonight. Well, that's just great...

[Forge]

Quote

wipe it (7 pass minimum), format it, then install an OS like linux over the top of it.

Cathy, on 19 May 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Could you explain why?

wipe it will scramble the data, format will scatter the data, putting in a completely different operating system will change the allocation table (i.e. from NTFS, FAT32, etc -to- ext3, ext4, etc). Now the data is going to be incredibly difficult to find and restore to anything recognizable.

Jeff, on 19 May 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

It's getting recycled, so it won't be used by anyone else. They'll probably take the disk, melt it and use the scrap metal and such to make a bus shelter or something.

in that case, just open the drive housing and bend up the disk with a pair of pliers

Hank, on 19 May 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Ever since then I shredd files. It may look like paranoia to some, but out of principle, when I give a computer a command to delete my shit, delete my shit. Don't put it in a fucking recycle bin, don't hide it, don't just disable it or what ever moronic idea MS has, get rid of it.

i shred my files too, but it has more to do with the efficiency of disk checks, defrags, etc. than i'm trying to hide something. Plain deleting leaves scraps of data behind that the computer doesn't really know what to do with other than storing and creating invisible clutter.

[Kathy]

Forge, on 19 May 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

wipe it will scramble the data, format will scatter the data,

Are these technical terms?

[Jeff]

Forge, on 19 May 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

wipe it will scramble the data, format will scatter the data, putting in a completely different operating system will change the allocation table (i.e. from NTFS, FAT32, etc -to- ext3, ext4, etc). Now the data is going to be incredibly difficult to find and restore to anything recognizable.

What about deleting the partition in Disk Management (compmgmt.msc) and creating a new parition? Rinse, repeat a couple times. What does that do? It's not necessarily the same formatting the drive.

[Forge]

Jeff, on 19 May 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

What about deleting the partition in Disk Management (compmgmt.msc) and creating a new parition? Rinse, repeat a couple times. What does that do? It's not necessarily the same formatting the drive.

then you're rearranging the data(technical term) in a more focused location instead of across the entire drive, but if you're installing the same allocation table type over and over it pretty much just equals formatting (more technical jargon) for that particular OS. i would suggest using a few different tables (i.e. windows, linux, OS X). just make sure you do that before any defraging (high tech mumbo-jumbo) moves the data that you want destroyed out of those disc sectors the partition occupies.

short of cutting the hard drive disk up and throwing it in a blast furnace, data can be recovered from it. even running an industrial grade magnet over the drive is only going to scramble the information contained on it. (Hawking Radiation). Someone with a lot of free time and tools not normally found on every street corner in googleville can put it together nibble by nibble.

[Hank]

Cathy, on 19 May 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

No, you don't need that. You just need to have proper security privileges for that file/folder. For example, users can delete whatever they want from their 'My Documents' folder.

P.S. Once again I couldn't sleep tonight. Well, that's just great...

It's my English for sure, do you run or have you installed your programs in your My Document folder? Anyway, I use a different IDE now. Also, get some sleep.

@ Forge - wow, from your last post, those hard drives seem almost indestructible, This reminds on Batman Returns, where one pasted a shredded paper together, saying 'with a lot of patience'

[Forge]

well people have to balance their personal satisfaction that information will not be recovered between "good enough" and "paranoid delusions".

if it's going in for scrap, a good format should be enough. if you're paranoid that one of the workers is stealing all the hard drives, is some computer nerd that can't get a job in his field, and is scouring them all for identity theft and extortion purposes: then pull the drive platter out of the case and smash it up with a hammer, bend it into a taco with a table vice, then cut it into little pieces with tin snips. Throw it away one piece at a time for the next two years.

if the computer is going back into the market, wipe it (7 pass), format it, install a different operating system. If you're scared take the hard drive out and replace it with a new one. Collect the old hard drives and build yourself a "pillow fort" around your computer desk.

[Kathy]

Hank, on 20 May 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

It's my English for sure, do you run or have you installed your programs in your My Document folder?

Firefox installs just fine in there.

And why am I not surprised programmers don't know such things...

Forge, on 20 May 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

if the computer is going back into the market, wipe it (7 pass), format it, install a different operating system.

There you go again... MHDD - erase. That's enough.

[Hank]

@ Forge - You are funny. It all started with Erasor and now we are at paranoid delusions.


Believe or not, we donated our comps, as is, to the less fortunate peeps in town. We simply re-installed XP, so they have an legit license on it. - Even if you tried to retrieve any previous data, all documents were Building specific, and those files are also available at City Hall.
The only thing I value is heart and brains of my fellows, can't load that in a comp, well not yet.

Cathy, on 20 May 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Firefox installs just fine in there.

And why am I not surprised programmers don't know such things...

You are funny too - Windows is a science by itself, there is no way to know everything.

[Forge]

i'm not going anywhere again. i'm placating to people who have problems determining between the minimal "what's good enough" and "i'm freaking paranoid"

sorry if that's a thorn in your side. maybe if you got more sleep you wouldn't be so grumpy

[Kathy]

Forge, on 20 May 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

maybe if you got more sleep you wouldn't be so grumpy

No, I'd be less tired thus more grumpy.

Still, it is time to sleep already.

[Hank]

Cathy, on 20 May 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

No, I'd be less tired thus more grumpy.

Still, it is time to sleep already.

When you are fully awake, please let me know how you managed to get Mozilla working in the My Documents folder. The Mozilla Firefox I have installed is in Program Files (86).

[Zaxtor]

RIP Ray Manzarek. He has passed away today

Ray Manzarek, founding member of the Doors, dies at 74

http://www.washingto...-doors-dies-74/

Ray Manzarek, the keyboardist and founding member of the Doors, who had a dramatic impact on rock ’n’ roll, has died. He was 74.
Publicist Heidi Robinson-Fitzgerald says Mr. Manzarek died Monday at the RoMed Clinic in Rosenheim, Germany, surrounded by his family. Ms. Robinson-Fitzgerald says his manager, Tom Vitorino, confirmed Mr. Manzarek died around 3:30 p.m. EDT. He had bile duct cancer.
Mr. Manzarek founded the Doors after meeting then-poet Jim Morrison in California. The band went on to become one of the most successful rock ’n’ roll acts to emerge from the 1960s and continues to resonate with fans decades after Morrison’s death brought an effective end to the band.
The Chicago native continued to remain active in music after Morrison’s 1971 death. He briefly tried to hold the band together by serving as vocalist, but eventually the group fell apart. He played in other bands over the years, produced other acts, became an author and worked on films.
The Doors were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and Mr. Manzarek is among the most notable keyboard players in rock history. His lead-instrument work with the band at a time when the guitar often dominated added a distinct end-times flavor that matched Morrison’s often out-there imagery and persona.
The group is best known for hits like “L.A.Woman,” “Break On Through to the Other Side,” “The End” and “Light My Fire” — a song particularly colored by his keyboard work — and came to symbolize the decadence of Los Angeles as the counterculture grew in the U.S.
Mr. Manzarek is survived by his wife, Dorothy, his son Pablo and two brothers, Rick and James.


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