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Sangman, on 28 December 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:
Uh, okay.
Why are you being such a cunt about this?
Why are you being such a cunt about this?
He should be more mature and adult-like!
The Post Thread
- King of SOVL
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#11551 Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:17 AM
He should be more mature and adult-like!
#11552 Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:13 AM
I don't give two shits if people say "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays". If Flibble wants to say the former instead of the latter that's his prerogative. However I don't understand where the snarky "well if you don't celebrate christmas that's your problem" stuff comes from.
#11553 Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:23 AM
Mr.Flibble, on 24 December 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:
Merry Christmas, all you people.
If you don't celebrate Christmas, that is your problem. I am not going to wish anyone "Happy Holidays" because there aren't any other nationally or globally celebrated holidays this time of year this year.
Although, I do regret that I did not wish anyone a happy solstice.
If you don't celebrate Christmas, that is your problem. I am not going to wish anyone "Happy Holidays" because there aren't any other nationally or globally celebrated holidays this time of year this year.
Although, I do regret that I did not wish anyone a happy solstice.
Well yeah, you had Thanksgivukkah this year, but Hanukkah can fall (and has fallen) on Christmas other years. Even then you've got Kwanzaa (you think it's a bogus holiday, other people don't) and New Year's right around the corner, so 'Happy Holidays' is just a convenient catch-all that can be used regardless of the year.
That's not really the reason I'll say it to other people though. "Happy Holidays" is just the most appropriate thing for me as individual to say; anything else I could say would be disingenuous. I don't care about solstices or hallelujahs or black Santa Clauses or any of that crap, I celebrate this time of year for no reason other than the fact that it's the only point out of 365 days that my crazed, dysfunctional-as-fuck family will get together and try to act like we don't secretly want to bludgeon each other to death with the shitty decorative candelabras my grandma keeps on her fireplace mantle. Some of it happens because most of my family's Christian and some of it happens strictly as a matter of convenience, but it doesn't change the fact that I personally make the trip to see them and hang around them for a few days for decidedly non-Christian reasons, ergo it wouldn't be any more appropriate for me to say 'Merry Christmas' than it would be for me to say 'Happy Kwanzaa'. I'm not really celebrating either of those holidays.
On the flip-side, I don't get all pissy and offended when someone says 'Merry Christmas' to me and don't really understand why anyone else would either. It's a nice gesture that just happens to misunderstand how I regard the holiday, but I also don't think the sensitivity over the issue is as bad as people like to make it seem. Maybe it's just because of where I live, but I hear more people bitch about having to be PC and say 'Happy Holidays' than I actually hear anyone say it.
#11555 Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:42 AM
I think the bitterness in Mr.Flibbles post may stem from the way that nowadays with increased information for a growing number of people on the planet it is becoming harder to be part of an organised religion without suffering ridicule. Before it was the athiests who had to keep quiet now things are changing.
I could be wrong of course about Mr.Flibble but I guess that's what it might be, he is watching the slow and inevitable death of his religion and is helpless to do anything about it and hearing his religious holiday being diluted to happy holiday is just a symptom of this larger problem.
I could be wrong of course about Mr.Flibble but I guess that's what it might be, he is watching the slow and inevitable death of his religion and is helpless to do anything about it and hearing his religious holiday being diluted to happy holiday is just a symptom of this larger problem.
- Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!
-
#11556 Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:11 AM
Mr.Flibble, on 27 December 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:
Although I won't disagree that the large majority of how Christmas is celebrated in the West is taken from German pagan traditions, it does not negate the authenticity of the holiday as a whole.
The date of December 25th has been celebrated since the earliest of times in Christianity (formally as early as the 4th century; but informally as early as the 2nd century). There are arguments for and against the winter date but any argument from astronomy makes certain assumptions at the beginning. These are assumptions I prefer to not make (that there was a single "star" or constellation set; that the magi were travelling from a known location [the three gifts mentioned can only be found in Arabia, each of the three can be found in other places, however]). These assumptions are based on both a religious fundamentalism and atheism (that a natural phenomena which can be explained occurred).
The date of 3 bc is not one I have heard tossed around by most scholars. Usually the years 7 - 4 bc are tossed around because they line up with the death of King Herod the Great. Since I'm not sold on the idea of the Matthean account occurring at the same time as the Lukan account (and the Lukan account is roughly dated using a census that was at least a decade AFTER Jesus was likely born), I can accept Jesus being born before that and the Magi visiting a toddler Jesus in or around 4 bc before Herod died. Matthew records the Magi visiting a house, Luke records Jesus being born in a cave (a cave that was venerated as early as the 2nd centuryas the birth place of Jesus).
There are a lot of problems about the date, but there are no truly irrefutable arguments either way. To assume so (and to spout it online or in a History Channel special) is ignorance. When I hear people (PhDs and otherwise) talking about "proof" of a particular date or year for the birth of Jesus, I humor them for a while but then stop listening because I see vey quickly they are assuming too many things and ignoring others.
Was Jesus born in Bethlehem? Who knows? If he is known as being from Nazareth does that preclude the possibility? I can't see how. Being "from" somewhere is not the same thing (even then) as being "born" somewhere. As a tradesman, Jesus and his father Joseph (and brothers) would follow the work so migrating to a town near Sephora is perfectly reasonable after the rise of Herod Antipas who, like his father, had large scale building projects that needed lots of workers. Moving from south of Jerusalem (where there were building projects under Herod the Great) to outside of Sephora is within the realm of possibility for an artisan. There are a lot of works on this and I can't find a specific place to point you. If I had better access to my library and a university library, I would be able to pull out some citations.
As far as the date in the winter, there are as many assumptions based on local and modern knowledge (read: 21st century city dwelling European/American who has never seen a free ranged sheep in their life). This is another place where I think people who talk about the dates and places of Jesus' birth in popular media ought to be ignored. I wish I could find a good study on ancient/Imperial sheepherding practices in Israel but it isn't exactly a well researched area in the English speaking world. Now, it might be in German and there could be something in Hebrew (but not likely since Hebrew publications are almost exclusively Jewish).
So, now, after all of this, I feel inclined to do extensive and exhaustive research on the topic. Unfortunately, I graduated and no longer have access to articles and particularly extensive libraries. I may piggy back onto my roommates' for some research and put together a study. Maybe. I have a different writing project lined up and a publisher on call so it may have to wait.
In Sum:
The particular methods of celebrating Christmas (which, frankly, I mostly don't care for) are Germanic pagan practices merged into Christian theology. This does not negate their value in actuality. Santa Claus is a strange amalgamation of a German mythological figure and a 4th century Christian saint (and some others). I agree with Notre Dame's Dr. Candida Moss who says that Santa Claus hurts Christmas and I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't tell our kids he exists.*
*
However, the date and celebration of Christmas are not simply "made up" in the same way as, for example, Kwanzaa.
Really, I hate the commercialization of Christmas and the overall feel of turning November and December into gluttonous months where if you don't spend tons of money on other people you are somehow a terrible person.
The date of December 25th has been celebrated since the earliest of times in Christianity (formally as early as the 4th century; but informally as early as the 2nd century). There are arguments for and against the winter date but any argument from astronomy makes certain assumptions at the beginning. These are assumptions I prefer to not make (that there was a single "star" or constellation set; that the magi were travelling from a known location [the three gifts mentioned can only be found in Arabia, each of the three can be found in other places, however]). These assumptions are based on both a religious fundamentalism and atheism (that a natural phenomena which can be explained occurred).
The date of 3 bc is not one I have heard tossed around by most scholars. Usually the years 7 - 4 bc are tossed around because they line up with the death of King Herod the Great. Since I'm not sold on the idea of the Matthean account occurring at the same time as the Lukan account (and the Lukan account is roughly dated using a census that was at least a decade AFTER Jesus was likely born), I can accept Jesus being born before that and the Magi visiting a toddler Jesus in or around 4 bc before Herod died. Matthew records the Magi visiting a house, Luke records Jesus being born in a cave (a cave that was venerated as early as the 2nd centuryas the birth place of Jesus).
There are a lot of problems about the date, but there are no truly irrefutable arguments either way. To assume so (and to spout it online or in a History Channel special) is ignorance. When I hear people (PhDs and otherwise) talking about "proof" of a particular date or year for the birth of Jesus, I humor them for a while but then stop listening because I see vey quickly they are assuming too many things and ignoring others.
Was Jesus born in Bethlehem? Who knows? If he is known as being from Nazareth does that preclude the possibility? I can't see how. Being "from" somewhere is not the same thing (even then) as being "born" somewhere. As a tradesman, Jesus and his father Joseph (and brothers) would follow the work so migrating to a town near Sephora is perfectly reasonable after the rise of Herod Antipas who, like his father, had large scale building projects that needed lots of workers. Moving from south of Jerusalem (where there were building projects under Herod the Great) to outside of Sephora is within the realm of possibility for an artisan. There are a lot of works on this and I can't find a specific place to point you. If I had better access to my library and a university library, I would be able to pull out some citations.
As far as the date in the winter, there are as many assumptions based on local and modern knowledge (read: 21st century city dwelling European/American who has never seen a free ranged sheep in their life). This is another place where I think people who talk about the dates and places of Jesus' birth in popular media ought to be ignored. I wish I could find a good study on ancient/Imperial sheepherding practices in Israel but it isn't exactly a well researched area in the English speaking world. Now, it might be in German and there could be something in Hebrew (but not likely since Hebrew publications are almost exclusively Jewish).
So, now, after all of this, I feel inclined to do extensive and exhaustive research on the topic. Unfortunately, I graduated and no longer have access to articles and particularly extensive libraries. I may piggy back onto my roommates' for some research and put together a study. Maybe. I have a different writing project lined up and a publisher on call so it may have to wait.
In Sum:
The particular methods of celebrating Christmas (which, frankly, I mostly don't care for) are Germanic pagan practices merged into Christian theology. This does not negate their value in actuality. Santa Claus is a strange amalgamation of a German mythological figure and a 4th century Christian saint (and some others). I agree with Notre Dame's Dr. Candida Moss who says that Santa Claus hurts Christmas and I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't tell our kids he exists.*
*
Spoiler
However, the date and celebration of Christmas are not simply "made up" in the same way as, for example, Kwanzaa.
Really, I hate the commercialization of Christmas and the overall feel of turning November and December into gluttonous months where if you don't spend tons of money on other people you are somehow a terrible person.
If we assume that Jesus is not real and is just part of a myth, it becomes pointless to discuss the validity of that information.
This post has been edited by Fox: 28 December 2013 - 11:12 AM
#11557 Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:15 AM
Comrade Major, on 28 December 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:
Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.
Keep your holiday and let everyone else keep theirs.
Excuse me while I take down my Festivus pole.
Keep your holiday and let everyone else keep theirs.
Excuse me while I take down my Festivus pole.
The bold quote is a phrase from Jesus to justify paying taxes to Rome. So what are you actually trying to say here?
You are hereby granted to take down the pole. The paradox part of it is that is was invented by American TV (which is trenched with commercials), to compensate the commercialism of Christmas. Yep, super class shit.
- King of SOVL
-
#11558 Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:20 AM
Fox, on 28 December 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:
If we assume that Jesus is not real and is just part of a myth, it becomes pointless to discuss the validity of that information.
But he was real, so there is a point to discussing the validity of that information.
This post has been edited by Element of Kindness: 28 December 2013 - 11:24 AM
#11559 Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:23 AM
Can't we all just get along and jingle each other's bells?
#11560 Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:34 AM
Lunick, on 28 December 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:
Can't we all just get along and jingle each other's bells?
- Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!
-
#11561 Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:45 AM
Element of Kindness, on 28 December 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:
But he was real, so there is a point to discussing the validity of that information.
It seems very unlikely he was real, considering his history and characteristic are based on other myths, especially the Krishna legend. The Bible itself can be considered a largely derivative work.
This post has been edited by Fox: 28 December 2013 - 11:49 AM
#11562 Posted 28 December 2013 - 01:33 PM
^^ So I guess instead of kicking the hornet's nest, we're gonna just straight up curb-stomp it, huh?
- Speaker of the Outhouse
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#11563 Posted 28 December 2013 - 02:14 PM
Fox, on 28 December 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:
It seems very unlikely he was real, considering his history and characteristic are based on other myths, especially the Krishna legend. The Bible itself can be considered a largely derivative work.
there's evidence (christian and non-christian documentation from the time period and shortly thereafter) that lead a large portion of historical scholars to believe Jesus was a real person.
whether you believe he was the Christ or not is your personal business.
getting out of your mud hut in the dead of winter to sit by a roaring fire, eat alot of food, drink cider, dance, play games and tell stories is why christmas is more popular than easter (you'd think the resurrection would be far more important than the birth to one of that faith)
#11566 Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:27 PM
Emerica, on 28 December 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:
I celebrate this time of year for no reason other than the fact that it's the only point out of 365 days that my crazed, dysfunctional-as-fuck family will get together and try to act like we don't secretly want to bludgeon each other to death with the shitty decorative candelabras my grandma keeps on her fireplace mantle. Some of it happens because most of my family's Christian and some of it happens strictly as a matter of convenience, but it doesn't change the fact that I personally make the trip to see them and hang around them for a few days for decidedly non-Christian reasons, ergo it wouldn't be any more appropriate for me to say 'Merry Christmas' than it would be for me to say 'Happy Kwanzaa'. I'm not really celebrating either of those holidays.
True dat.
Complaining about holiday greetings is like saying "actually, I'm an atheist" when someone says "God bless" after you sneezed.
- I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...
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#11567 Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:27 PM
Dial V for Viper, on 28 December 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:
<3
I take your Buick and raise you the V8 Holden Commodore.
This post has been edited by The Commander: 28 December 2013 - 06:29 PM
- Speaker of the Outhouse
-
#11568 Posted 28 December 2013 - 07:43 PM
Ronan, on 28 December 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:
...nowadays with increased information for a growing number of people on the planet it is becoming harder to be part of an organised religion without suffering ridicule. Before it was the athiests who had to keep quiet now things are changing.
.....he is watching the slow and inevitable death of his religion and is helpless to do anything about it and hearing his religious holiday being diluted to happy holiday is just a symptom of this larger problem.
.....he is watching the slow and inevitable death of his religion and is helpless to do anything about it and hearing his religious holiday being diluted to happy holiday is just a symptom of this larger problem.
being of religious faith is an unpopular minority? Sweet, where do i sign up?
actually i can be considered some kind of Christian, but i don't need some fuckhead telling me how to interpret a bible
i also don't push my beliefs in invisible flying spaghetti monsters onto other people. in this day and age of information most everyone has heard of one religion or another and can seek out knowledge if they're interested enough. they don't need some smarmy prick banging on their door handing out pamphlets when there's something better going on the TV.
most organized religions are a bunch of hypocritical assholes anyway.
ex.
Christians spouting, "Homosexuality is an abomination against God"!
well alright. grab your basket of stones and let's put them to death.
"We can't do that. Jesus said to love your fellow man and hate the sin, not the sinner". -or some such crap
well if you're not going to live to a T by the book you keep spouting off your hate from, then shut the fuck up already.
whatever skeletons one has in their closet or whatever lifestyle a person chooses, that's between them and God, not some choirboy molesting two-faced asshat
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, right?
- I have the power!
-
#11569 Posted 28 December 2013 - 08:50 PM
Fox, on 28 December 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:
It seems very unlikely he was real, considering his history and characteristic are based on other myths, especially the Krishna legend. The Bible itself can be considered a largely derivative work.
Bart Erhman went through all of the supposed argumentsof Jesus' non-existence. You should read his excellent book. Seriously, it is an excellent book. If you can't afford or won't buy his book, message me a way to buy it for you. I will buy that book for anyone who is interested.
I am serious. PM me a way to buy the book for you if you won't buy it.
I am upset at how Christmas has become so commercialized. New Years is a whole different thing (who decided it should be a thing? I don't care that much since it is a day off of work). I find the expression "Happy Holidays" to be a cop out. It is a phony. Christmas is a federal holiday in the US. The only people celebrating around now are people celebrating Christmas. They are either celebrating because they go to church or simply because they want to be part of a crowd.
I didn't buy people gifts this year. I had to for a gift exchange within my family, but I would rather not have to go any gift exchange. I don't like seeing a religious day turned into commercial festival of spending
- Speaker of the Outhouse
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#11570 Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:06 PM
quote myself for great justice:
save your money for Christmas presents
you can do research on the internet and in public libraries (as well as theological libraries in large churches) and get the same answer from impartial, independent, and indifferent historians and scholars that agree Jesus was a real person.
some people just choose not to believe
and the holocaust was a lie
Forge, on 28 December 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:
there's evidence (christian and non-christian documentation from the time period and shortly thereafter) that lead a large portion of historical scholars to believe Jesus was a real person.
save your money for Christmas presents
you can do research on the internet and in public libraries (as well as theological libraries in large churches) and get the same answer from impartial, independent, and indifferent historians and scholars that agree Jesus was a real person.
some people just choose not to believe
and the holocaust was a lie
This post has been edited by Forge: 28 December 2013 - 09:06 PM
#11571 Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:25 PM
Mr.Flibble, on 28 December 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:
I am upset at how Christmas has become so commercialized.
I kind of questioned what the deal of gift giving and Christmas was. I got flamed for it. They started saying "well if that's how you're going to be, maybe I shouldn't buy you any gifts". It was just a "why does this happen" question.
Read this thing where people can be separated into three groups. Wonder why things happen. Wonder what happened and people who make things happen. I ask why things happen a lot.
- I have the power!
-
#11572 Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:55 PM
I find myself asking a lot of questions. Most of them have probably been answered in German somewhere.
I do like Bart's book. I have actually pre-ordered his newest book (How Jesus Became God, from HarperOne). I am looking forward to it.
I don't agree with Dr. Erhman on a few things, but I respect his scholarship and I appreciate the work he puts into these things. I think he is a respectable scholar. I respect him more than I respect Reza Aslan. At least Erhman has a degree in the field he claims to be a scholar of (Reza Aslan has degrees in Fiction and Sociology; Bart Erhman has degrees in Bible).
Honestly, I would love to meet Erhman and have a nice long conversation with him. It would be really rewarding.
I do like Bart's book. I have actually pre-ordered his newest book (How Jesus Became God, from HarperOne). I am looking forward to it.
I don't agree with Dr. Erhman on a few things, but I respect his scholarship and I appreciate the work he puts into these things. I think he is a respectable scholar. I respect him more than I respect Reza Aslan. At least Erhman has a degree in the field he claims to be a scholar of (Reza Aslan has degrees in Fiction and Sociology; Bart Erhman has degrees in Bible).
Honestly, I would love to meet Erhman and have a nice long conversation with him. It would be really rewarding.
- Speaker of the Outhouse
-
#11573 Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:56 PM
Jeff, on 28 December 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:
I kind of questioned what the deal of gift giving and Christmas was. It was just a "why does this happen" question.
ol' saint nick
or more Formerly known as Nikolaos of Myra, or Saint Nicholas
another documented and real person. He supposedly started the (modern day) gift giving tradition
This post has been edited by Forge: 28 December 2013 - 09:57 PM
- I have the power!
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#11574 Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:59 PM
He did stuff. He also punched a heretic in the face for saying that Jesus wasn't God.
- Speaker of the Outhouse
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#11575 Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:02 PM
Mr.Flibble, on 28 December 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:
He did stuff. He also punched a heretic in the face for saying that Jesus wasn't God.
now that's the kind of Christmas spirit i can relate to
- Senior Unpaid Intern at Viceland
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#11576 Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:29 PM
I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT
- Speaker of the Outhouse
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#11578 Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:00 AM
Fox, on 28 December 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:
I will risk to say that christianity prevalence in the West plays a major hole in Jesus being commondly considered a historical figure. The same way, Muslim scholars probably give that historical status to Muhammad instead.
the "evidence" isn't strictly from christian sources. Roman, Jewish, Hebrew, Greek, Turkish, Syrian, Egyptian, etc., etc., etc. government, personal letters, public postings, scholarly sources, census data, etc., etc., etc. are also referenced.
we don't have a body and we don't have birth records so you can dispute it all day long and nobody can definitively say if you're right or wrong.
Fox, on 28 December 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:
I am not an expert in literature, but since the New Testament is a revisionism of the Old Testament (i.e. Jesus commit the same miracles as the Old Testament prophets) it points out to it being purely a work of fiction.
incorrect. The new testament is nothing like the old testament.
other than the old testament prophets making vague references on what to look for to recognize Christ, for example, like him riding a donkey through a certain gate in Jerusalem at a certain time of year.
There are several references like that, but as a whole, a simplistic comparison would be like reading the history of the united states from the 1600's then reading the history of the united states from the late 1900s to 2010.
Way different, but you can find commonalities between them.
Fox, on 28 December 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:
The Bible itself has little to no no historical value — according to it the Jews were slaves in Egypt, which is beyond absurd in egyptian archaeology. And based on the authorship and dating of the texts, it is very unlikely they have any legitimacy as non-fictional work
??
there's alot of archeological evidence that there were tribe(s) of hebrews in Egypt during the time they were supposed to be there. i.e. egyptian tablets, aramaic graffiti, etc.
There's even an egyptian tablet describing some of the plagues. (which most likely correspond with Santorini eruption)
maybe you should actually read the bible. contrary to what most believe, it's not a hocus-pocus book of magic.
This post has been edited by Forge: 29 December 2013 - 09:02 AM
#11579 Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:31 AM
Forge, on 28 December 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:
being of religious faith is an unpopular minority? Sweet, where do i sign up?
actually i can be considered some kind of Christian, but i don't need some fuckhead telling me how to interpret a bible
i also don't push my beliefs in invisible flying spaghetti monsters onto other people. in this day and age of information most everyone has heard of one religion or another and can seek out knowledge if they're interested enough. they don't need some smarmy prick banging on their door handing out pamphlets when there's something better going on the TV.
most organized religions are a bunch of hypocritical assholes anyway.
ex.
Christians spouting, "Homosexuality is an abomination against God"!
well alright. grab your basket of stones and let's put them to death.
"We can't do that. Jesus said to love your fellow man and hate the sin, not the sinner". -or some such crap
well if you're not going to live to a T by the book you keep spouting off your hate from, then shut the fuck up already.
whatever skeletons one has in their closet or whatever lifestyle a person chooses, that's between them and God, not some choirboy molesting two-faced asshat
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, right?
actually i can be considered some kind of Christian, but i don't need some fuckhead telling me how to interpret a bible
i also don't push my beliefs in invisible flying spaghetti monsters onto other people. in this day and age of information most everyone has heard of one religion or another and can seek out knowledge if they're interested enough. they don't need some smarmy prick banging on their door handing out pamphlets when there's something better going on the TV.
most organized religions are a bunch of hypocritical assholes anyway.
ex.
Christians spouting, "Homosexuality is an abomination against God"!
well alright. grab your basket of stones and let's put them to death.
"We can't do that. Jesus said to love your fellow man and hate the sin, not the sinner". -or some such crap
well if you're not going to live to a T by the book you keep spouting off your hate from, then shut the fuck up already.
whatever skeletons one has in their closet or whatever lifestyle a person chooses, that's between them and God, not some choirboy molesting two-faced asshat
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, right?
My country used to be extremely Catholic, now an increasing amount are not and many that still are Catholic/have faith only do so because they never gave any alternative any thought (believe it or not there are loads of people like this).
I expect this trend to increase unless something pulls them together like what is happening in Islam at the moment, they are being brought closer together because of the hostility towards them from non-muslims.
As for interpreting the Bible, sure anyone can look at it anyway they want, but for me if I was going to look at it a as work of non-fiction (which I don't) then I would take it literally and believe absolutely everything as I don't think you are meant to pick and choose which parts to believe.
I see all the holy books this way, believe every part of the book or be sceptical of every part, this makes sense to me.
It's not even about not believing in a god or not it's more about not believing the ancient texts created in a time of vast ignorance/superstition of the cosmos and reality. Though you could argue that we are still at this point, who know what we may discover down the line?
Religion is such a touchy subject though, I'm not sure how deep down the rabbit hole we should go as people can get very upset.
#11580 Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:41 AM
This is still going? My two cents:
I think what is now known as Christmas and its tradition (Trees, lights, gifts, parties etc.) are far older than Christianity. If you look at the term catholic, it means something like broad and liberal. The Church simply adapted and incorporated those traditions and weaved the Story of Jesus around it. One can try to get christian Christmas into Christmas, but Christmas was never theirs to begin with.
There long history of celebrations in and around the solstice, date all the way back to Sumerian People (today's Iraq) who worshiped their sun god. Fast forward 7000 years to 2013. Hank still celebrates Christmas with family, food, drinks and decorations to mark sun's eternal cycle to bring more light each day. To do it on the 22nd versus the 25th, well, the 25th is a statutory holiday, which enables most people to celebrate something with us. So like the Church, I am flexible. The benefit of being a free thinker vs. an atheist
I think what is now known as Christmas and its tradition (Trees, lights, gifts, parties etc.) are far older than Christianity. If you look at the term catholic, it means something like broad and liberal. The Church simply adapted and incorporated those traditions and weaved the Story of Jesus around it. One can try to get christian Christmas into Christmas, but Christmas was never theirs to begin with.
There long history of celebrations in and around the solstice, date all the way back to Sumerian People (today's Iraq) who worshiped their sun god. Fast forward 7000 years to 2013. Hank still celebrates Christmas with family, food, drinks and decorations to mark sun's eternal cycle to bring more light each day. To do it on the 22nd versus the 25th, well, the 25th is a statutory holiday, which enables most people to celebrate something with us. So like the Church, I am flexible. The benefit of being a free thinker vs. an atheist
This post has been edited by Hank: 29 December 2013 - 09:42 AM
