[Jeff]

I guess I could say, yes. I got my A+ Certification and now I can fix people's computers for a living if I wanted to.

[Jimmy]

Nazi Germany had a magnificent schooling system. Everyone was sent to special schools that mainly focused on whatever the child was good at. Why do you think they had one of the best societies in the world? Beyond the whole killing Jews thing, the German people were fucking admirable.

[Master Fibbles]

Nazi Germany was a great place so long as you weren't on the SS' shit list.

[Hank]

A clever troll post in my own thread.

@ CA - The education system was in place before the Führer. (Germany was in ruins, so was schooling) It just happened that the Nazis did revitalize it and refined it to the Führer's needs. Girls to become mothers and boys to become soldiers. The rest is off-topic. If you want to discuss Das große dritte Reich, just make a post, I'll use Destiny's method of cutting and pasting from a lot of forums, Hitler is discussed to death

[LeoD]

Captain Awesome, on Jan 6 2011, 11:50 PM, said:

Nazi Germany had a magnificent schooling system. Everyone was sent to special schools that mainly focused on whatever the child was good at.

Plain bullshit. My parents went to school back in the forties and there was no such thing. Instead they were taught tons of blatant lies.

Captain Awesome, on Jan 6 2011, 11:50 PM, said:

Why do you think they had one of the best societies in the world?

Germany still has not recovered from the intellectual and cultural drain of that period. Plus that wonderful society forced their children into war preparation organisations like the Hitler Youth or BDM.

Captain Awesome, on Jan 6 2011, 11:50 PM, said:

Beyond the whole killing Jews thing, the German people were fucking admirable

No they were not. They threw away their freedom, democracy and morale all too easily. (Mostly because the pre-WWI monarchy was still in too many heads.)

Mr.Flibble, on Jan 7 2011, 12:10 AM, said:

Nazi Germany was a great place so long as you weren't on the SS' shit list.

It was a terrible place because half the population was afraid to get on that shit list and therefore behaved in a way that made it even worse.

[Hank]

@ CA the current German Education System has not changed since around 1919.
http://www.howtogerm...manschools.html

Added
The classification of students is based on curriculum tests based on what the country needs, not on the IQ or talent. If you are the upper class you will enter private schools, segregated from the proletariat. Hitler did not alienate industrialists nor their offspring.

Reference:
http://en.wikipedia....tion_in_Germany

probaganda 1934
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcus...lerYouth046.htm
Universities 2011
http://www.tatsachen-ueber-deutschland.de/...d-research.html

Here is a troll post for you, if Germans are so cleverly schooled how come they've got bum fucked twice in a row from the same nations?

[Mikko]

On top of LeoD's points, the Nazi economy was on shaky grounds. In fact, many believe that one reason why Hitler started the war when he did was because he knew the economy was going to collapse unless given a major (short-term) boost via military spending (kinda like how the war masked the failure of the New Deal in the US), which would help Germany acquire natural resources from the East. Millions of Germans could then be relocated there as "volunteer" pioneers (Drang nach Osten).

Surprisingly many are still under the impression that Hitler did good things for the German economy. Don't get me wrong: his initial policies did help alleviate the many problems caused by the worldwide depression but these short-term policies would have backfired in the medium-run.

[Jimmy]

I must have been running off of biased information, I guess. However, I digress, it still is a better system by concept, and it could potentially do better than what we have now with some work. Regardless, the system has failed us and it needs a change.

[LeoD]

Mikko_Sandt, on Jan 7 2011, 02:36 AM, said:

On top of LeoD's points, the Nazi economy was on shaky grounds. In fact, many believe that one reason why Hitler started the war when he did was because he knew the economy was going to collapse unless given a major (short-term) boost via military spending (kinda like how the war masked the failure of the New Deal in the US)...

Yep. The nazi economy was geared to war right from the beginning.

Mikko_Sandt, on Jan 7 2011, 02:36 AM, said:

..., which would help Germany acquire natural resources from the East. Millions of Germans could then be relocated there as "volunteer" pioneers (Drang nach Osten).

My Grandfather bought a farm from an idiot who wanted to use the money to buy huge acreage in the regions yet to be conquered.

[blackharted]

Hank, on Jan 5 2011, 01:24 PM, said:

When you go or went to school, college and/or university, did you complete your schooling with the knowledge you need or wanted?

I know I'm late to this, but no i did not complete my schooling with the knowlage I wanted, but I did get the schooling I needed.

[Danukem]

blackharted, on Jan 7 2011, 09:59 AM, said:

but I did get the schooling I needed.

Are you sure about that?

[LeoD]

DeeperThought, on Jan 7 2011, 08:46 PM, said:

Are you sure about that?

Don't disturb the first approach to reflection.

[Master Fibbles]

Don't you mean: "Don't feed the troll"

[blackharted]

DeeperThought, on Jan 7 2011, 12:46 PM, said:

Are you sure about that?

LOL! yes I'm sure.

[Shawneth]

Being a regular student does add tension to the whole basic idea of why we have education after grade four; to have us get ready for jobs and careers. Something I noticed in this thread was that no one mentioned any subjects that are useless, such as sex-ed. Mabye it isn't bad for telling kids to be safe, but I'm sure they went beyond that last year in my Grade sever class. They started with the basic "Don't have sex, you'll get an STD", but since we already knew that, they tried some shock value, and it fucking scared me. It was a story of a pregnant teenager, they brought her to an abortion clinic, but she denied, then they brought her to this pre-mature birth centre and SHOWED A FUCKING NURSE COVER A DEAD BABY. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?! It still scares me today, because I have some back knowledge on this.

[Micky C]

Last year my state in Australia introduced a new system of teaching and marking and ranking secondary school students. The sole purpose of this, and they're not saying it but it's obvious, is to lower the bar so that people will stay in school longer and not be causing trouble in the streets or taking advantage of pension.

The most obvious and easiest to explain problem is lowering the amount of subjects required from 5 to 4, and even less if you study something outside of school. Everything is also marked to a rubric instead of just getting a grade based on the score. My chemistry tests have a rubric attached and one of the boxes was for 'collaborative work', it's a bunch of rubbish. However the 4 subject thing does have certain advantages if you know what you're doing; since I'm doing 5 subjects, only the top 4 actually count towards my final score, which is pure awesomeness http://forums2.duke4...tyle_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif

[Master Fibbles]

So...instead of increasing the intelligence of students and improving the overall intelligence of humanity, we are lowering standards...great. Just fucking great.

[Micky C]

Well some people are just naturally smarter than others, and at this point in time I define intelligence as being able to see the connections between things, allowing them to fall into place very easily. The best way IMO is to separate the students from each subject into various levels based on how easily they can see these connections, since the smarter ones will always be able to learn more, and learn in a much shorter period of time, instead of bringing everyone down to the same low level. I know I've gotten frustrated sometimes with the speed at which the class I was in was learning certain topics.

[Master Fibbles]

It just seems that in just about anything but education, we will push for higher standards regardless of the needs or ability of so many people (health care, for example; or technology) but when it comes to education, people seem to have no problem with just saying "Well, little Johnny here can't spell and it is unfair that he won't get to go to college because of that so we are just going to go ahead and lower the standards for college admittance in order to give him a shot at college." That is fucking bull shit. Raise the demands at lower levels and don't lower the standards for admittance at other levels. Holding someone back is not the worst thing you can do to them; letting them go on ahead completely unprepared and letting the overall standard fall is the worst thing you can do for a person and the community as a whole.

Not everyone needs to be college educated. Not everyone has it in them. Not everyone is equal. I know many well off, happy individuals who never went to college; but they worked their asses off either in a trade school or at a lower level job that eventually got them into the office based on their experience.

[YicklePigeon]

Before I reveal my answer, I best elaborate on my background:

From about the age of 9 I was home educated by my mother, who wasn't a teacher, but was able to teach me at home thanks to a legal loophole basically. Anyway, school up to that point had failed, I had excelled in everything and was bored being kept at the slowest pace of everyone else in the class.

By the time I was 16, I had already made programs using Delphi, dabbled in C and C++, learned how to use UnrealEd and started to learn how to make 3D models (this was back in 2000). Would I have learned this stuff anyway? Perhaps, but not to anywhere near the level that I did do. When it came time to return to college, the best they could offer me was an admin course disguised under the name "Using IT", where every part of it and the "optional" courses revolved around some aspect of MS Office. It wasn't long before I found it to be a waste of my time (not helping me to get where I want to go), and walked.

So by this point, had formal state education failed me? Well without knowing what happened next, someone could argue it was one or the other (me or the college) that had actually failed.

Given the next two years up until I was 18 or so, I carried on beavering away and started looking for work. The qualifications I had gained, including some from the failed admin course, turned out to be worse than useless and didn't give a true representation of what I was capable of doing. Nor did getting work prove fruitful anyway, not in the offices (although I'd pass employment agency tests with flying colours) certainly and so I found myself delivering leaflets. Then after that, found myself working retail...after a year hunting down jobs, getting interviews etc.

It just came to getting what I could get. And so I worked retail for 1.5 years, learned what a bad employer and terrible working environment is like, and eventually walked out of that too. That occurred in January 2006, at the age of 21.5 years old. I then started a new plan, from February 2006 I moved into my own flat (of which I still live in today), find temporary office work (eventually achieved in September 2006 after a long hard slog as a jobseeker) and get back into part-time evening education where I want to also be working (achieved September 2007).

So, back in education, did it work out? Well, I was allowed to go at the speed that I am comfortable with (warp 7.2) and achieve. Shown some not-so-entirely different viewpoints and approaches to the work, and what was I studying? More admin qualifications! But this time, specific to the legal profession. Did it fail me? No actually, thanks to that and my prior working experience, I got work! For 5 months on a temporary contract; succesfully completed at that! Hurray!

But now, after working elsewhere too, I'm back in education...and I can see two different views now as I am in both Further Education (I suppose the American equivalent would be a community college) studying to be a legal secretary and Higher Education (University level) studying computing. Now in Further Education, I am encouraged and allowed to go at warp speed, whereas in Higher Education everyone has to go at the pace of the overall class. Of all the students in the class, I have a practical working knowledge to the point of almost being specialised already when it comes to programming for example.

Now, you have to understand that I haven't any formal qualifications in high level computing subjects (say for example C++ programming or networking) and all the other students do have formal qualifications. Apart from me, none knew the answer - after spending 6 months into this course, and all the other courses they've done and the fact that we're all different ages (from about 20-32 years old)...and none knew what "GUI" stood for or what it was until I answered. None.

I'd expect that in Further Education yes, but for those that say things like "I got a distinction in Visual Basic!" (oh dear!) and not know? Some didn't even know what a motherboard looked like...or even know what "HTTP" stands for. How can these people, do so much in classes, some even working in the field of IT and not know these things?! Cue facepalm.

I since renegotiated to a different course come the second year (get this one out the way, transfer all the UCAS credits over to the new course and do the second year of the new course) so as not to further waste my time in worthless classes, or end up with a qualification that many others will be attaining who are nowhere near my level.

So in conclusion, and yes I'm cutting this post short, has the education system in place benefited me directly? Yes. Has the education failed me? Yes. And it all comes down to determining what are the worthless courses and whether or not I put the effort in.

If only I could go back in time, tell my 16 year old self to go to a bigger college network with more on offer and not the local one, I might have typed something extremely different. Might.

Regards,

Yickle!

[Hank]

YicklePigeon, on Feb 19 2011, 03:10 PM, said:

So in conclusion, and yes I'm cutting this post short, has the education system in place benefited me directly? Yes. Has the education failed me? Yes. And it all comes down to determining what are the worthless courses and whether or not I put the effort in.

If only I could go back in time, tell my 16 year old self to go to a bigger college network with more on offer and not the local one, I might have typed something extremely different. Might.

I think: For the open minded, education does not end. I did not get a paper from Yale or Cambridge ( larger institutions ) either, but their knowledge is available via books, phone and even email.

[YicklePigeon]

Hank, on Feb 20 2011, 12:46 AM, said:

I think: For the open minded, education does not end. I did not get a paper from Yale or Cambridge ( larger institutions ) either, but their knowledge is available via books, phone and even email.

Agreed, one of the things I didn't elaborate on enough was the self-study, especially that (like you say) is available from the larger institutions out there - and lets not forget, for the more geeky things in life, such sites as 3D Buzz for all the lovely VTMs! Very good indeed!

Regards,

Yickle!

[bullerbullerseven]

You don't have to say Regards Yickle, it's not your real name ( i think ) and we can see it above your avatar

[YicklePigeon]

Jhect, on Feb 20 2011, 02:36 AM, said:

You don't have to say Regards Yickle, it's not your real name ( i think ) and we can see it above your avatar

Its something I've done since around 2000 on forums, and throughout my posts on 3DR's forums, its not going to change now

Regards,

Yickle!

[High Treason]

Yeah, signing your posts dates back to the old BBS systems, because it was in the MS-DOS console you could not often "scroll" back up the page so it helped to keep you on track of who was talking and what was happening in the conversation at what time.

I amy elaborate on my own education later.

Edit: Also, Yickle, guessing that you are a fan of Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons? That show kicks ass, but not that awful new CGI version.

[YicklePigeon]

@High Treason: Indeed, although for me it was on forums where images were rare or taken a bit of time to load, given the whole dial-up problem of days gone by. Even now I find it easier for readability (even though my avatar is fairly easy to spot), especially if any of you witness my epically long rants or if I change my avatar (how many of us now sometimes just skim looking at avatars to recognise other users?).

And yes, I am a fan of the original Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons, and yes I'm not a fan of the CGI remake either, so much went wrong with that...which deserves its own thread really. If you check the 3DR forums (same username), my avatar is from another Gerry Anderson series, I'll let you have a guess as to from which

---

Back on topic though! A little bit more on my education, thanks to being educated at home and free from state education, going on educational trips was actually a lot easier. Everything from going to York (visiting Jorvik and the National Railway Museum especially) to Edinburgh...if only because the Star Trek exhibition was going on! Chances are that if I was still going to school, such trips would not have been possible.

As an aside, I also learned to touch-type on a typewriter thanks to my mum taking a touch-typing course. Thanks to this, I gained valuable skills and insight as to the frustrations a typewriter can bring out in a person...which I find amusing when those learning to touch-type have great difficulty, or are trying to learn MS Office...and all I can think of is how easy they've got it! Why I remember back in the day...

Moving on slightly, being at home did stunt development socially, even though I was quite adept at talking to those older than I (even now) but as I got older, I found it very difficult to interact socially with those around my own age. It taken many years and much trial and error, but by the time I turned 21, things started to fall into place so that by 22, everything was fine from then on.

But that's me, not everyone is necessarily going to be the same of course, however I would maintain that looking back, a social education is indeed very important to have. But that its even more important to master...with lots and lots of practice

Regards,

Yickle!