[Micki!]

Discuss DNF hardware in here...

Here is the latest hardware related quote by George

George Broussard: said:

Multi-core support is in and quite nice. We all run Core Duo 6600's and 7950/8800, ati 1900 level cards. Multi-core is the future and the game is pretty much going to require it. You really have to, to make a game competitive with modern consoles, or beyond. One cpu isn't enough anymore. 64 bit will come, but is lower priorty. Vista/64 bit isn't a priority for us at the moment.

[EDIT:]
To begin somewhere in this:

My PC has a 8800GTX videocard...
It has 2GB Kingston DDR3 RAM
the Processor i have, is a 165 Opteron (dual core)

Having said this, pretty much only my processor is what's lacking enough power... while it is indeed dual core, it is still not very good, as it isn't really designed for games... (of course, i will be playing it on highest settings)
But i'll see how it'll run the day it's done...

[peoplessi]

Micki!, on Apr 22 2007, 03:59 PM, said:

Discuss DNF hardware in here...

Will do. It seems that 8600GT and GTS will be hitting the expected mid-end. At least based on test's. 8600GTS doesn't surpass X1950Pro, but is about equal and has DX10, and is cheap. Remains to be seen how well it perfoms on DNF.



PS. yes, I joined quite recently but have been lurking for years here and 3D Realms's forums as well

[Micki!]

Welcome to the Forums then Peoplessi
And enjoy your stay...

Doesn't the 6800 series support SM 3.0..? (i can't remember) and in that case, wouldn't these cards be among minimum requirements as well..? (can't speak for Radeon Cards, i'm not very familiar with thier numbers)

[Cerberus_e]

I won't be able to run it decently, it's that simple
I'll probably wait a year or two until I have a good computer so I'll be able to enjoy it fully while the experience is still fresh.

[peoplessi]

Micki!, on Apr 22 2007, 05:22 PM, said:

Welcome to the Forums then Peoplessi
And enjoy your stay...

Doesn't the 6800 series support SM 3.0..? (i can't remember) and in that case, wouldn't these cards be among minimum requirements as well..? (can't speak for Radeon Cards, i'm not very familiar with thier numbers)

Hard to say at this point, it might just make it. But I wouldn't espect any huge performance from it. It does support SM3.0, that is true, but does it have the horsepower that is another thing. Dualcore is confirmed to be a must, bit like with Supreme Commander. Radeon -series introduced SM3.0 later than GeForce -series. Beginning from X1300, X1600, X1800, X1900, and X1950. As you can notice, Radeons are one generation "behind" on this GeForce 6*** vs. Radeon X8**. And GeForce 7*** vs. X1****. Upcoming Radeon HD -series are to be noticed as well. Comparable to GeForce 8***. I would expect DX9.0c(SM3.0) to be a must as well, besides dualcore.

Simply put: Do not buy hardware now for DNF Things are going to change, and prices will drop, performances will grow and so on. It might even possible that 3D Realms will use DX10 renderpath for those who have DX10 cabable card: meaning some DX10 gimmicks for the DX10 people.

[Micki!]

"Lost Planet" for the PC will support DX10 while teh original X360 version was DX9 only... I can't imagine any [b]big[/i] differences, but at least it's there... It may indeed happen with this way DNF as well... But i don't think in the same scale as Crysis... Where it looks like a whole new game, almost...

[Kristian Joensen]

Micki!, on Apr 22 2007, 03:22 PM, said:

Welcome to the Forums then Peoplessi
And enjoy your stay...

Doesn't the 6800 series support SM 3.0..? (i can't remember) and in that case, wouldn't these cards be among minimum requirements as well..? (can't speak for Radeon Cards, i'm not very familiar with thier numbers)

"Doesn't the 6800 series support SM 3.0..?"

Yes indeed they do, in fact the Geforce 6 series where the first cards to support SM3.0.

"and in that case, wouldn't these cards be among minimum requirements as well..?"

Yes indeed, certainly the minimum to even run the game, if that(SM3.0 support) was the requirement. If the Geforce 6 series would be able to get decent performance on low settings then they would indeed be the minimum requirement.

"(can't speak for Radeon Cards, i'm not very familiar with thier numbers)"

Well the Radeon equivalent of the Geforce 6800 series is the Radeon 800/850 series. However those card only support SM2.0b shaders and not SM3.0 shaders, so if the game is going to require SM3.0, the game will simply refuse to run on those. However the Radeon X1k series(the ATI equivalent of the Geforce 7 series) DOES support SM3.0.

So if I am correct in assuming a SM3.0 requirement, then these are the cards(I won't bother listing stuff like GT, Ultra, LE, etc, way to many combinations) that it will run on, but that doesn't guarantee even anything above 0 FPS(WIkipedia is the source of this info):

Nvidia:


*Geforce 6100 (series?) (there just is no way a card can run a game like that in any way shape of form at all basically)
*Geforce 6200 series (again the same basically applies, very weak budget card).
*Geforce 6500 series(shaky card, quite unlikely).
*Geforce 6600 series(starting look better, wouldn't be all THAT surprised if the on the box listed minimum requirement will be a card from this series)
*Geforce 6800 series(Could probably be the minimum requirement card, I just can't see the minimum requirement being higher than that)
*Geforce 7100 series(Have no idea about this cards)
*Geforce 7300 series(the same as above)
*Geforce 7500 series(again the same comment holds)
*Geforce 7600 series(The mid range series, could quite possible see something like this running the game at medium settings with low resolutions and no AA(if the game even supports AA))
*Geforce 7800 series(the initial GF7 series released).
*Geforce 7900 series(George mentioned a GF7950 in this now famous post)
*Geforce 8500 series
*Geforce 8600 series
*Geforce 8800 series(The most advanced series out there, also mentioned in the famous post)

ATI(Can't be bothered with comments, or else this post won't ever be submitted, the lowest two are budget ones, might very well be exluded from even running DNF atleast any where near decently, AFAIK, but don't quote me on that):

*Radeon X1050
*Radeon X1300
*Radeon X1400
*Radeon X1550
*Radeon X1600
*Radeon X1650
*Radeon X1700
*Radeon X1800(My laptop)
*Radeon X1900(Mentioned by George in the post)
*The R600 based cards.

Given these lists does this make you guys think they will require SM3.0 or not ? Why/why not ?

Is there anything you guys disagree with me on with regards to the descriptions of these cards ? Anything I left of, didn't know about or should have mentioned ?

Edit:

"I won't be able to run it decently, it's that simple "

Actually if I am reading George correctly you won't be able to run it at all:

Quote

Multi-core support is in and quite nice. We all run Core Duo 6600's and 7950/8800, ati 1900 level cards.

Multi-core is the future and the game is pretty much going to require it. You really have to, to make a game competitive with modern consoles, or beyond. One cpu isn't enough anymore.

64 bit will come, but is lower priorty. Vista/64 bit isn't a priority for us at the moment.

Peoplessi, perhaps they will provide a DX10 render path, but I am a bit concerned that would delay them and/or hinder work flow.

Edit2:

As far as not running on a GF6800, goes here is the previous quote on what machines they where running:

Quote

3-3.4ghz, 6800g's, with 2 gigs of ram. Pretty average around here. Some higher and some lower, but not by much (2.8ghz and a 9800 Pro).

- George Borussard, January 9th, 2006.

It is hard for me to imagine all of a sudden cutting out a card like that, but then again it is also pretty hard for me to imagine going form likely not supporting dual core to [b]requring[b] it and that certainly seems to be the case.

Have you got any ideas about how that change might have come about peoplessi ?

[Micki!]

About SM3.0 being a requirement...
I think it will be required... The only reason i see them not to do this, is to make the 6800 equivalent Radeon cards work with the game...

Afterall, then you would count in the people who are using ATI cards resulting in more sales... but really, if the framrate is good enough, and if it isn't too "Ugly" (has to be at least somewhat visually appealing) then they might not bother...

What was Rainbox Six's reason to just jump directly to the newer generations of cards and going SM3.0 only..? (i doubt that they did it just to make every first game look impresive... because that would affect sales too greatly, i think...)

[Mr. Pink]

@Kristian: I'm thinking the primary reason for the dual core support requirement is for software physics handling.

I'll bet that 3DR saw the current pricing on dual core cpus, and decided to make the game better/more interactive, etc. in the physics department.

That's my opinion, anyhow

[Splat]

Quote

Multi-core is the future and the game is pretty much going to require it.

But will it work on a single core CPU?
If it will be SM3.0 AND dual/quad core only, it might not be enjoyed by a large audience, the gamers with two- to three-year-old gaming rigs.
Unless DNF is still more than 1.5 years from being done.
Then those requirements will be pretty normal for a new FPS.

The only hardware i have trouble with selecting, are LCD monitors.
They all seem to suck (still). Crappy 22inch TN panels won't do it for me.
I hope there'll be a good choice soon, i want a proper widescreen to play DNF on.

[peoplessi]

Kristian Joensen, on Apr 22 2007, 07:46 PM, said:

It is hard for me to imagine all of a sudden cutting out a card like that, but then again it is also pretty hard for me to imagine going form likely not supporting dual core to requiring it and that certainly seems to be the case.

Have you got any ideas about how that change might have come about peoplessi ?

My guess is as good as yours we are on the zone of pure speculation, I think they will support whatever is reasonable to support. SM3.0 cuts few cards, but mostly few years old already. I can see that they support GeForce 6600 and above, it might run on the slower cards, but Seconds Per Frame isn't something you would like to play. I don't think they have in mind that we cut these cards out and these are in. There are loads of budget levels cards that will run DNF when it's done. All this considering they already have ruled out singlecores, going to support SM3.0 only isn't something that I would be surpised of.

This based on the assumption of:
People who do not have a dualcore processor are most likely running cards that do not support SM3.0. Although have to take an exception to that by GeForce 6 -series which is and was quite popular. Those who have dualcore have most likely got a SM3.0 card, and quite new X1800/X1900 or 7800/7900.

And what is against this, is the sole fact that highend cards are only a small percentage of the annual GFX card sales, most of the sales come from OEM and the biggest vendor being Intel, not nVidia or AMD/ATI. It is although safe to assume that Intel onboard GPU's aren't supported. But there is a big market outside dualcore, but considering that dualcores cost as little as they do know, and you can get decent performing GFX card under $200US time of DNF launch... It is not that far fetched after all to see only SM3.0 and above cards being supported.

Kristian Joensen, on Apr 22 2007, 07:46 PM, said:

Peoplessi, perhaps they will provide a DX10 render path, but I am a bit concerned that would delay them and/or hinder work flow.

They could do it to just test DX10 out, for future games. Get to know it better. Delay is always a concern, but I do not think that they would delay the game to get a DX10 gimmicks in for DX10 renderpath.

As for X360 Xenos, it supports some parts of DX10, and surpasses the specification on some. But it isn't fully a DX10 compatible.

http://www.beyond3d....ent/articles/4/

[crunchysuperman]

GB has always been an advocate of listing "minimum" hardware that is really above the actual minimum in order to give a good gaming experience. So it'll likely run at lower settings with hardware a bit weaker than what he mentions.

I'd probably be alright to run it right now, but being a year or so more to go, I'll likely have built another machine by then anyway.

[DragonflyWolfTen]

Dudes check the case I ordered the other day for my new rig I am building for DNF.
]My Webpage[/url]
It is the XG VIPER 2 black case. Dose anyone here have one?

I will begin buying the parts weekly now and should be ready to roll in July. I have to thank kaiser for pointing out everything I need to kick ass. I am mostly using the list he made at 3DR forums.

[peoplessi]

DragonflyWolfTen, on Apr 24 2007, 06:18 AM, said:

Dudes check the case I ordered the other day for my new rig I am building for DNF.
]My Webpage[/url]
It is the XG VIPER 2 black case. Dose anyone here have one?

I will begin buying the parts weekly now and should be ready to roll in July. I have to thank kaiser for pointing out everything I need to kick ass. I am mostly using the list he made at 3DR forums.

Nice case if you like it. But I wouldn't buy anything for DNF now, they have said in past that do not buy hardware for DNF until it is released. And I really recommend that for anyone that is buying a new PC for DNF in mind. Most probably you will be able to run DNF with above mentioned specs, but performance compared to the money you spent won't be as good if you wait until release, or atleast confirmation of the year when DNF comes out.

[Jobi-Wan Kenobi]

i have a AMD Athlon64 3500+, 2 GIG DDR400 Ram and Radeon X800XT. I hope i can run with this specs CRYSIS on middle. If DNF comes out next year's summer, i wil upgrade my whole PC maybe in May 2008 or so. But if DNF should come earlier i need a new money source.
I woul like to see that 3D Realms sells a special DNF PC, or atleast a dukish casetower.

[DragonflyWolfTen]

I planned on getting into system specs and building a rig this year. My tech guy built my current rig 2 years ago and its been running games on medium levels. I have never had a RIG just for gaming so I am looking forward to going dual core and getting the best posible out of a game. I am also building a whole work station to sway my son into game development. So by the time DNF dose come out I should be ready to roll on day 1. The planning has begun.

[Kristian Joensen]

DragonflyWolfTen, since you are talking about getting the rig that KaiserSoze mentioned at the 3DR forums, I really really really hope you take the advise of this post into consideration. Never, never ever skimp on the PSU. Also if I was you I would never get the Geforce 8800 GTS but the Geforce 8800 GTX 768 MB one.

As far as the RAM goes, I have no idea of the quality of the ram that Kaiser mentioned, but just make sure you get good quality RAM with low timings.

Peoplessi, while it is certainly a bad a idea to get a rig for JUST DNF, if you are getting a rig anyway(For say, ET:QW, Crysis, Bioshock, UT3, Alan Wake, Project Offset, etc) then it is certainly a good idea to keep DNF in mind.

Also I have done some thinking about our discussion on whether or not DNF is gonna require SM3.0 and I have come to the conclusion that one way to look at is is to compare with Prey. Here are the cards that Prey lists as supported:

Quote

* ATI: ATI Radeon 9600 series, ATI Radeon 9700 series, ATI Radeon 9800 series, ATI Radeon X300 series, ATI Radeon X550 series, ATI Radeon X600 series, ATI Radeon X700 series, ATI Radeon X800 series, ATI Radeon X1300 series, ATI Radeon X1600 series, ATI Radeon X1800 series, ATI Radeon X1900 series, or better with latest manufacturer drivers
* NVIDIA: NVIDIA GeForce3/Ti series, NVIDIA GeForce4/Ti, NVIDIA GeForce FX 5800 series, NVIDIA GeForce 5900 series, NVIDIA GeForce 6200 series, NVIDIA GeForce 6600 series, NVIDIA GeForce 6800 series, NVIDIA GeForce 7300 series, NVIDIA GeForce 7600 series, NVIDIA GeForce 7800 series, NVIDIA GeForce 7900 series, or better with latest manufacturer drivers.

So what would they exclude they went with such a requirement ?:

Quote

ATI Radeon 9600 series

Surely they can do that without any problem.

Quote

ATI Radeon 9700 series

Cutting this series of shouldn't really cause any problems at all, I mean for Christ's sake we are talking about cards that launched in August 2002, by the time of DNF's release likely almost 6 years old cards.

Quote

ATI Radeon 9800 series

Again, I see no reason why this should be any different than the other 2. Also extremely old, hailing from early 2003, already now we are talking about a card that is 4½ years old.

Quote

ATI Radeon X300 series, ATI Radeon X550 series, ATI Radeon X600 series

Can anyone see any reason why a game likely shipping in mid 2008(June, Julyish?) should have to support 4 year old(from 2004, according to wikipedia) budget cards ?

Quote

ATI Radeon X700 series, ATI Radeon X800 series

Not until you get to these could you really but an argument up fro SM2.0 support on the ATI side, but still we are talking about cards that launched in late 2004(the X700 in September 2004), so by the release of the game we are likely talking about these cards being 3 years and 9-10 months old, you wouldn't even be cutting out this entire generation/level of cards, only the ATI ones.

Now onto the Nvidia side of things:

Quote

NVIDIA GeForce3/Ti series, NVIDIA GeForce4/Ti

AFAIK, the GF4's are not much more peforming than the 3's at all. So I think this quote will do very much to rule out both:

Quote

I don't think the game is going to run on a GF3.

- George Broussard, October 6th, 2004.

Quote

NVIDIA GeForce FX 5800 series, NVIDIA GeForce 5900 series

First a note that Prey cut off all the lower FX series cards, so why not DNF ? As for these cards, from what I can gather they where launched in early 2003(atleast the FX 5800) so we are talking 4 year old card, by the time of the release of DNF they will be more than 5 years old. In addition to that they are notoriously bad shader performers while George said that DNF would make a "hardcore" use of shaders. So there is really no doubt in my mind that 3DR could safely ship DNF without supporting these at all.

That is it on the Nvidia side, all the rest of the cards would be supported technically if the where to require SM3.0, whether they will run WELL or not is an entirely different question.

So what do you guys think of this analysis, I am way off ?

[DragonflyWolfTen]

very helpfull and interesting, thankyou for this. I have always been in the backseat while my tech friend made the dessions for me but now he is in another city so it is time for me to catch up to the speed.

the only thing I have locked onto so far is the viper case and the intel dual core e6600. so with these 2 things carved in stone i am very much open and thankfull for any advise from y'all. i hope yatta dont delete this thread or anything cause i gana need it for awhile.

[Damien_Azreal]

I'm pretty confident that my PC will be able to play DNF at release. Probably not at full settings, but with a 7950 and a dual core CPU I think I'm good.

But, by the time DNF is out I could've upgraded the GPU to a 8800 (or even a 8900 ) and given my 7950 to Bon.

[DragonflyWolfTen]

OMFG!

After spending days looking at possible gaming rigs I think I found the BEAST

I am really thinking about doing this. It is just above my price range but I think it is the best so far so I dont care. Have a look at the specs on it.

I dont know about the case, its cool but I have allraedy ordered the viper2. either way it is cool to scroll down and read all the specs this dude has used.

What do you think?

[Kristian Joensen]

That does look REALLY great, but there are a few worrisome details:

1."Completely Custom Computers™ will be happy to courier any of our PC’s to anywhere within Australia."

Do you live in Australia ?

2. It is one Ebay, thee is always a question of realiability, can you turst that/those guys ?

3. The brand of ram, I have never hear of A-Data before, it is important to get good quality ram.

But as a system it seems really really fine. Maybe you should see how much such a system goes for in perhaps a number of other places ?

[DragonflyWolfTen]

yes I am in the Australian outback not far from where they filmed Mad max 2 the road warrior. I work in the permaculture field or "permanent agriculture", and for me it is dry land permanent agriculture. Do a lot of moisture capture and designing the landscape to manipulate the capture of rain rather then it just wash away. So with my location in mind that is why I want to just buy a rig ready to roll rather then build it cause the parts would be flown in from allover which would cost a lot more. I trust eBay and this seller has a 100 percent good customer rating level. The liquid cooled mobo is awesome but the minator case has no front fan so I guess it needs the coolant and radiator temp control. I will be looking around a lot but so far I think I will be going to custom built computers for my rig.

[peoplessi]

Kristian Joensen, on Apr 27 2007, 01:40 PM, said:

3. The brand of ram, I have never hear of A-Data before, it is important to get good quality ram.

But as a system it seems really really fine. Maybe you should see how much such a system goes for in perhaps a number of other places ?

A-Data is reliable brand, often used by overclockers. Quite new, few years old.

And for the second point, I totally agree, that didn't seem too wise system to buy. Money is spent allover the place.