[Micki!]

Cerberus_e, on May 26 2007, 04:03 PM, said:

I can accept changes, but this doesn't look like a pig cop. Just a pig.
If they call this enemy (considering this is the version like he'll be in the game) pig COP it doesn't even make sense
Maybe they have multiple versions. One with a full suit, one with a torn suit, one without suit, etc... then it's OK. They just showed the least exciting version then.
...except if this is a different enemy alltogether

I think it's still ok to call it PigCOP...

The Pinky demon in Doom 3 wasn't pink like in Doom 1-2, but i actually think it's one of the coolest models in that particular game

I'm not saying it will be the same case here, but they might just call them Pigcops simply because it's all the earths defense (Military, as well as Cops on earth) being mutated... thus still being relevant calling them pigcops, because it's not just random humans...

Some pants at least would be prefered though... would be sad if that "additional detail" a male body has (yeah, sounds wrong ) wasn't modelled, and at the same time, it would be VERY disgusting... so pants would be a great solution...
Maybe pants of a cop uniform (if that can be seen) or EDF uniform pants

[Cerberus_e]

I'm pretty positive that this model isn't like it's going to appear in the game, because his arms don't look like they're in a position of holding a shotgun. Or are they going the melee route? I hope not

I wonder how the new mindblast of the octabrain looks

[Nihilanth]

Name isn't really that important here. Pig Cop (also refering to what Micki! wrote) is something like Pinky Demon. It's a name that was given to a monster while it was in sprite, more cartoony form, plus it was out-of-the-game name (that is, no one ever refers to a Pig Cop as Pig Cop in-game). The design of Pinky Demon was something that fitted pixelized graphics over 10 years ago. But Pinky Demon in 2004 couldn't be the same thing. Same goes for Pig Cop. It's design worked well in a sprite version but would it work at 2007 level of graphics? Of course not, check those shots at 3DR forums where people added Cop suit to the guy. It looks plain ridiculous, it's not even satirical, it just looks bad. Pinky Demon, again, same thing. It's not staying true to original Pinky in terms of how it looks but it's still Pinky. My point, something that worked as a bunch of pixels would not work as tons of polygons. As for the name, it makes sense, because the important part is that it is still the same character like years ago. What would be a reason behind changing a name to say, Mutated Pig? Not a big difference in-game, I guess. For you and me what matters is that we can face that old motherfucker again. Also, a name change would lead to "ah, so there's no Pig Cop in DNF, booo!".

Of course it's only my opinion (and not meant to be offensive, if it sounds like that, you can drop an anvil at my head) and btw if it doesn't make sense, sorry. I have problems with expressing my opinions, lately.

Cerberus_e said:

Maybe they have multiple versions. One with a full suit, one with a torn suit, one without suit, etc...

That is how they do it in BioShock, same Splicers will come with different things like one with a mask, one without but it's still the same guy. I think it'd be a great way to avoid attack-of-the-clones feeling.

[Telee]

I... don't know. It doesn't look like the pig cop at all. Almost like some sort of Doom clone.

I think it's great and all but this isn't what I wanted it to be. It's not even in uniform.

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It's design worked well in a sprite version but would it work at 2007 level of graphics? Of course not, check those shots at 3DR forums where people added Cop suit to the guy. It looks plain ridiculous, it's not even satirical, it just looks bad.

That cop uniform wasn't what the pigcop had in Duke3D. It had a vest, some tattered clothes and some boots. I think the thing that made it look silly was the hat. This thing as I said earlier looks like a Doom clone. I don't want it be have animal-like behavior. I want it to act like a human, like it did in Duke3D.

And if you're going to mention that they're EDF soldiers, and not cops - go play the Nuclear Showdown add-on for Duke3D. It has some new Special Forces pigcops that rapel, shout orders to each other and act like a squad. That's what I'd want. That's what'd be fun to fight.

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I have to say that I really like it that they haven't made just h!-res Pig Cop. It's like a lot of people expected it and I think the same goes for other monsters that make their comeback. However it's no longer Duke3D. It's DNF.

There's nothing bad in expecting monsters to look alike their moms and dads in Duke3D but really, some people should learn to accept changes. I read some of the comments at 3DR forums and I just think that a lot of guys out there pay too much attention to differences between old and new Pig Cop. You know, "he doesn't have cop suit" type of thing. Isn't it more important how it looks now rather than the fact that it looks different? After all it's clear that it's still Pig Cop. And to me as long as it's not a new random monster with the old name, it's fine.

So pretty much you're saying we're acting silly because we express our opinion instead of the usual "looks ****ing awesome" comments? It's criticism. Constructive criticism. We've played Duke just as much as you and want something we can enjoy as well. It's possible to cater to both sides. My opinion is: I want Duke, not some lame Doom ripoff.

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Hmm, but in the end DOOM 3 monster designs look much different than originals but they are still awesome...

Not really - they were nice, but the cacodemon and hellkight could have used some more work. I liked the new look of the hellknight but there was some other stuff they could have added, like the horns. The absence of the arachnotron also bugged me.

[Nihilanth]

Telee said:

Almost like some sort of Doom clone.

Totally disagree. Doesn’t look like anything from DOOM at all. Well, it’s grey but that’s it.

Telee said:

I don't want it be have animal-like behavior. I want it to act like a human, like it did in Duke3D.

Personally, I don’t care. But we can’t really tell how he’ll behave. Maybe aside from gargantuan-monster look he’ll still have human behavior? Maybe.

Telee said:

So pretty much you're saying we're acting silly because we express our opinion instead of the usual "looks ****ing awesome" comments?

No idea how you came to such a conclusion. Look, I’m not bashing your opinion because there’s something you don’t like. Someone says: “It’s the worst thing I’ve ever seen”. FAIR ENOUGH for me. You love it, you hate it, I don’t care, it’s your opinion.

I don’t agree with arguments people use. Such as:
* no cop uniform
* no cartoony, happy/satrical look of original Pig Cop
Or generally speaking:
* it doesn’t look like in Duke3D
These are just worthless arguments for me. I can't think of many things I would agree with that would back them up.

I agree it doesn’t look like a pig or a boar (more like a wolf with boars tusks [is tusk a proper word?]).

Telee said:

I liked the new look of the hellknight but there was some other stuff they could have added, like the horns.

And here I disagree again. People used to say it should have horns because original Hellknight had them. But I just don’t see them fit. It’s meant to be horn-less and looks good to me that way; brutal but doesn’t scream anything like “See horns? I’m a bad, bad demon from Hell.”

Oh, and by the way, Cacodemon lacked something, I agree.