[Nihilanth]

Here we have a brand new trailer from BioShock. It's a pre-rendered footage but still it's one of the most amazing... and disturbing trailers.

I don't know what about the others, but to me it's one of the most shocking trailers I've ever seen. It's of course CG but, the mood and especially what is presented is totally creepy and absolutely terrifying.

[Cerberus_e]

Is that the one with the two Big Daddies? Yes it's a very cool trailer, however I don't think I'll like Bioshock (I hope I'm wrong of course). I really liked System Shock 2 by the way.

[Nihilanth]

Actually there'll be three types of BDs and yeah, this is the second one we got to see (in fact I've seen him long time ago, I just didn't know that it's a BD). I look forward to BS mainly because I'm tired of seeing, or rather not seeing any really sophisticated shooters/games like Shock2 or DX1. I mean, shooters are fine, but I think it's time for something more complex. Can't wait for new gameplay footage (codename: The Hunt for Big Daddy).

Man, I just love that trailer. One of the best, imo, even if it's just CG. By the way, for everyone who watched it too (from the link above), are you also expieriencing: barely visible twitching (not sure if that's the correct word), minor sound delay and a frame showing 'No Video Input' or something like that?

[Cerberus_e]

It is the fact that it is going to be much easier than System Shock 2 that does not appeal to me. System Shock 2 was nice and hard and I really liked that... but people have been complaining about the difficulty and the developers will make it more fair now (read: easier ). The HUD was fine in System Shock 2, now it looks like a candyHUD... a bit like Sin: Emergence

[Nihilanth]

Just a small question. Below you've got a link to site where you can download BS trailer in the highest quality (131mb). Still I can't play it with Media Player, Media Player Classic, etc. Any idea why?

http://www.ferrago.c...ick/?id=1204040

EDIT:
Cerberus_e
I would not judge it just now. This is what Ken Levine said, maybe some of this will clarify something:

Quote

Let me get this out of the way first:

"F*ck Levine and F*ck Irrational! What do they think we are, idiots?! How dare they try to make BioShock accessible!!!!"

As I said in another thread, we're going to be getting into information on this site in a deeper way than you might find a on generalist gaming site. Why? Because we've been posting here for about 100 years and we don't have to worry about losing anybody when we get deep in the weeds on BioShock.

When I say accessible an interview, here are some things some of you might think I mean:

No ammo types.
No character growth.
No hacking.
No logs.
No open-ended level layouts.
No difficulty.
No weapon mods.
No research system.
No limited resources.
No ghosts.
No dozens and dozens of plasmids.
No radically different play styles.

This is, of course, a filthy, filthy lie.

Here's what Irrational is doing to make BioShock accessible.

1) Dynamic Training. This is the big investment we're making, and we believe it's a key element to bringing deeper games to non-core gamers. And for the rest of you, it's our stake to the heart to tutorial-itis. It's a system that watches how you play and dynamically genereates advice to point you towards game play options you might be missing ("hey, ever thought of hacking?"), systems you might be using wrong ("hey, how about some armor piercing rounds on that bot!", or even game systems you just don't get ("hey that's 12 security cameras you've been spotted by in a row. want to learn more about the security system?"). You can, of course, turn this system off if you don't like it.

2) It's going to be pretty! Guess what: Shock 2 having ugly character models and no translucency in our sprites was not a design choice!

3) People who play the game guns blazing will have a AAA experience as well. In Shock 2, we don't think we really were fair to the guns guys. Without compromising all of the systems I described above (hacking, crafting, research, etc), we're going to make things blow up nice.

4) Performance. I think a big barrier of entry on Shock 2 (for the mass market, not TTLGers) was the long load times and mediocre performance. One of our core goals with BioShock was making sure frame rates and load times were competitive.

If anything, BioShock is the deepest game we've ever made. Having real time and money to make it also means it will be the most accessible.

(edited to add "No limited resources.")

[Cerberus_e]

I want that training feature on, but I don't want it the whole game. Prey was ridiculous because it told you to recharge your leech gun for the whole game! Also, I'm not sure if I'm fond of: "you can play this game how you want: hacking, guns blazing, ...". I think System Shock 2's greatest point was how I was forced to do other things than shooting or else I won't survive. IF the game can be finished guns blazing that's going to be VERY disappointing

[avatar_58]

Why not? It might be like Deus Ex, which can be finished by going commando (difficult, considering many things) or you can never fire a single shot and use non-lethal and stealth methods.

I think if done properly Bioshock could be seen as VERY revolutionary, assuming it truly is as open ended as it claims to be. I am skeptical on the whole "do as you please" story involving the Big Daddies and Little Sisters. How can the game really truly allow you to choose if they have any relevance to the story? It would have to have multiple endings and a well thought out progressive story because it isn't very clear to me how they plan to go about this.

Either way I'm hyped. Of course in the meantime I have SS2 to play.

[Nihilanth]

No multiple endings, unfortunetly or fortunetly, time will tell.

So how I see this. I don't think fair = easy. Fair in this case is about balance. In fact Shock2 was not really too good balanced. It made it more challanging because you couldn't just grab a gun and do nothing else than shooting but if the game is about choice and about choosing your own style of playing, that's a different story. I think it's good they try to balance shooting style. The point is that you pick a game and you play as YOU want to play, not like you're forced to (aka only stealth, or only gun blazing, etc). Like Paul Hellquist said:

"We've filled the game system with hundreds of combinations of weapon upgrades, mods, ammo types. So yeah, anyone who enjoys just going around blasting stuff has more than enough tools to have a really great time, and we hope that those players who pick up BioShock will have fun with that and then start exploring some of the more interesting and more innovative areas of the game and, so we think we'll be able to get both crowds, so the people who don't like the shooting very much, they have lots of other things to play with as well. We don't really care how you play it, find whatever you think is fun, and run with it."

It's like Diablo, you know, you can play with a fighter character which is easier for a beginner than mage for instance. But you can also IN THE SAME GAME just go and play in more sophisticated ways.

Also I highly doubt BioShock will allow you to play in typical shooter style. I mean, it's just like with Shock2, there are many systems that permanently complicate it all (weapon mods, hacking, ammo types, etc) so even if someone will want to play BS in a shooter style, he will HAVE to addopt to more realistic world than in normal shooters. That's how I see it.


Also I'd like to once again ask for advice about the HD video from my previous post:
"Below you've got a link to site where you can download BS trailer in the highest quality (131mb). Still I can't play it with Media Player, Media Player Classic, etc. Any idea why?

http://www.ferrago.com/portal/click/?id=1204040"

[Cerberus_e]

Maybe you don't have the correct video codecs

avatar_58, on Sep 30 2006, 02:36 PM, said:

Why not? It might be like Deus Ex, which can be finished by going commando (difficult, considering many things) or you can never fire a single shot and use non-lethal and stealth methods.

Because I'm never motivated to do difficult things when it can be done in an easier way. That sucks if the difficult thing is more fun

avatar_58, on Sep 30 2006, 02:36 PM, said:

I think if done properly Bioshock could be seen as VERY revolutionary, assuming it truly is as open ended as it claims to be. I am skeptical on the whole "do as you please" story involving the Big Daddies and Little Sisters. How can the game really truly allow you to choose if they have any relevance to the story? It would have to have multiple endings and a well thought out progressive story because it isn't very clear to me how they plan to go about this.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are probably talking about using a plasmid to make the Big Daddies think you're a Little Sister, like you can see in the developer video.
By the way, Big Daddy, what a stupid name.

[Nihilanth]

Re: Video
I wouldn't ask without trying first. I downloaded codecs, switched players, looked around but found nothing. It's a wmv format but nothing works to play it. Funny thing is that I downloaded extra low 20mb quality and it works fine.

Re: Difficulty
Well, that's the point of such a games, isn't it? It's cool, because you can have fun with totally different styles and totally different dificulty levels (I mean tasks difficuties, not overall difficulty settings).

Re: Big Daddy
Personally I think this name stands out of the crowd. Something like Bio Modified Tech-enhanced Protector of the Harvester Childrens would not be too original, imo.

[Cerberus_e]

That's true, in the case of "Bio Modified Tech-enhanced Protector"

[avatar_58]

Cerberus_e, on Sep 30 2006, 08:56 AM, said:

Because I'm never motivated to do difficult things when it can be done in an easier way. That sucks if the difficult thing is more fun

Depends, what if the hard way is the run & gun way? From what was described it takes literally a tank to remove a big daddy so just firing away isn't going to be simple. The stealth/hacking way on the other hand wouldn't include any such waste of ammo. You might also get more items and rewards being able to unlock a door that a run & gun player wouldn't have the skills for (since he'd be putting it all into weapons/tactics versus hacking/stealth)

[Cerberus_e]

That's true

The thing is, I hope it's going to be very hard like System Shock 2

[Kristian Joensen]

Well Cerb, this game might well be using the UE3 tools(Considering they are using PART of UE3) Which means a VERY good oppurtunity for modding. That is if they release the tools with the game.

You can easily make crazy stuff with Kismet.

[Damien_Azreal]

http://www.2kgames.c...tofrapture.html

There will be a limited edition of BioShock for 360 and PC, they have a poll up at the web-site. Asking fans what items they would want to see in the LE of BioShock.

I voted for the artbook.

[Cerberus_e]

I like a soundtrack, then I can easily rip the tracks and I have the gamee's music as MP3 I always try to find mp3's of games I like the music of.

[Damien_Azreal]

If I could've chosen three it would've been the Artbook, Big daddy figure and a making of DVD.

Soundtracks I don't really like, most of them tend to loose their feel once taken out of the game. I have the complete soundtrack to FEAR and listening to it... outside the game... it loses it's edge.

IMO.

[Cerberus_e]

Depends on the game, I like listening to Painkiller's mp3s

[Micki!]

Cerberus_e, on Apr 4 2007, 01:31 AM, said:

Depends on the game, I like listening to Painkiller's mp3s

"City On Water Fight/Prison" is awesome..!

And see, this... The moderator is jumping off track...

Bioshock sounds interesting... i should maybe give it a try...
I'm just concerned about it being too much of a "thinking" game...

[Cerberus_e]

Thinking is not a problem for me... on the contrary. But I fear it's going to hard to know the possiblities. You don't have to think like in real life, but you have to think along the lines of what's possible in the game, and that's drastically different in each game, especially the modern ones. It's hard to think of possibilities how to do things then.

[Damien_Azreal]

Cerberus_e, on Apr 3 2007, 03:31 PM, said:

Depends on the game, I like listening to Painkiller's mp3s

Painkiller's is the only one I actually listen to and enjoy outside the game. A few songs I don't like at all, but most of them are nice.

What's great about Painkiller is you can replace any of the ingame MP3s with your own... you just have to rename your music to the song your replacing. I have System of a Down, Coal Chamber, Moonspell... all sorts of different shit in mine.

[Micki!]

Didn't know that, cool...

But doesn't it sound better if it can play in a loop..?

Would be fun with some friendly, calm and nice music for normal music, and wild loud metal for fight music

[Damien_Azreal]

It loops it on it's own, the original Painkiller MP3s are only about three minutes long or so each.
They loop as well.

[Micki!]

No no, i meant, those songs for Painkiller were made in a way so they can play in a loop without sounding like teh song ever ended...

But using a song from System of a Down for instance, it has a start and ending... playing it on a loop will be like replaying the same song, instead of giving the illusion of it being one big song (as Painkillers original soundtrack is like)

[Damien_Azreal]

Yeah, now I understand ya. But since most the fights in Painkiller only last a few minutes... you hardly ever notice.

[Cerberus_e]

You do, because in the next fight the music continues from where it stopped So the looping will happen a few times since the fighting over the whole level takes more than 2 minutes

[Damien_Azreal]

Well, maybe I just get into the game and don't really notice. Besides I only use songs I really like so I don't mind listening to them over and over.

[Damien_Azreal]

Well, I pre-ordered my copy a few weeks ago. PC Collector's Edition... can't wait for it to release.

Come on August!