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Whats Your Take On This?

User is offline   avatar_58 

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#1

http://www.shacknews...?comments=43655

Apparently more employees are gone than we thought. However I still think its not as bad as the post suggests, many of the tech guys left simply because they aren't needed anymore (George stated its tech ready many times) so really its being blown out of porportion.

:)
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User is offline   St3amb0 

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#2

i hope so avatar58 B)
But if 3DR have now 18 people to finish DNF thats not much! I really want to know how many new guys they hired! :)
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User is offline   avatar_58 

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#3

Andy Hanson reply:

"By the time I left at the end of April, I had spent the last couple of years on animation systems, artist and asset tools, facial expressions and other basic mesh systems. I hadn't really worked on the graphics stuff for a couple years."

And we already know Wieder's story. So thats 2 down.
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User is offline   St3amb0 

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#4

avatar_58, on Aug 30 2006, 11:49 PM, said:

Andy Hanson reply:

"By the time I left at the end of April, I had spent the last couple of years on animation systems, artist and asset tools, facial expressions and other basic mesh systems. I hadn't really worked on the graphics stuff for a couple years."

And we already know Wieder's story. So thats 2 down.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


yeah i'm following the conversation on the shack...
and 5 more to go... :)
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User is offline   avatar_58 

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#5

I've truly got nothing else to do at the moment, so this is pretty entertaining :)
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User is offline   Cerberus_e 

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#6

avatar_58, on Aug 30 2006, 11:49 PM, said:

So thats 2 down.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Only one left. I don't really think we need explanations for one guy who leaves, happens at any company. id Software is much more mysterious in that regard :)
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User is offline   avatar_58 

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#7

Yep. Although at id they tend to make a big scene when leaving....
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User is offline   Yatta 

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  #8

Although this doesn't come as a complete surprise (you'd expect the team to get tired on working on the same damn game for 10 years), I'm really saddened by this news. I hope it won't affect the development as much as I think it will.

I love Duke4.net. It's one of my life's proudest accomplishments. I'm proud of the community we have built here and the beautiful work that comes out of it every day. I'm proud of the friends I've made here and the kind people who made all of this possible with their hard work, donations, and participation. Thank you.
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User is offline   Cerberus_e 

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#9

I don't think it'll affect the development at all. They're just people like you and me, of which they can hire others. They're not gods that become fallen angels or something :)
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User is offline   avatar_58 

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#10

Mass hysteria FTW or what? 3DR is on digg, and well you've probably already read what really happened in the forums.

Back to WID :)
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User is offline   avatar_58 

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#11

George is the man!

Quote

Physics and animation systems are virtually finished and shippable. It's simply maintenance and polish from here on out. We haven't needed to make substantial changes to those systems in months. The changes we have made, were made without great effort. Things are never as bleak as they appear, as is often the case when you simply have one side of the story.

I'm glad to see that Shack is now a major investigative new source. I alone, have secret insider info on half the developers in the industry and their secret unannounced projects, their departures, layoffs and other internal politics. If you really want to open up the site to being the next BitchX or FatBabies, it shouldn't be too hard to solicit reputable sources (anon developers or their friends) to provide you with all the information you need. It's all 'news' :)


http://www.shacknews....zz?id=12779001
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User is offline   Micki! 

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#12

This doesn't botehr me much...
I can't see any signs of 3dR loosing thier "spirit" of working further on DNF because some guys left...
Either it will dellay the game some more, or it's because they are done with thier part, and DNF doesn't need them anymore, so they went to another place to work on... INstead of doing nothing... This would makes sense...

I do in no way, believe that they're cancelling DNF...

A true genius does not need boundaries such as 'common sense'
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User is offline   Splat 

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  #13

Didn't we already know that people left 3D Realms. I think we did.
The ShackHole just needed and got confirmation from some source.
If you followed every bit of info and news on 3D Realms you should have at least suspected this, and also known it would be no reason to freak out over.
I think the main reason that the staff page at 3drealms.com was removed, was to prevent something like this happening.

And that now, things like 'cancelling DNF' or 'engine switch AGAIN' even crosses some peoples minds amazes me.
:)

Duke4.net Graphics Whore
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User is offline   Micki! 

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#14

It's more like "who left" not how many for me...

I mean: "Scott Alden, Will Bate, Brian Cozzens, Kyle Davis, Andy Hanson, Keith Schuler, and Charlie Wiederhold"

From all these, i only knew Charlie left...
It's kinda sad if other known heads from 3DR are gone too...

But still, i am not worried of the development of DNF...
I still think it's gonan be what they wanted it to be like, and as Joe said, it's just a normal thing, that poeple come and go...

But as i said already, it's sad that some 3DR "veterans" are leaving... Just like when Charlie left... :)

A true genius does not need boundaries such as 'common sense'
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User is offline   kaisersoze 

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#15

A few topics I'd like to cover.

I'll admit that sometimes my blind passion for the game sometimes gets the
best of me and I go off on wild tangents and make threads over there that
aren't useful to the situation ie: 3drealms bought out. It was me speculating
why there would be such a dramatic change over at 3drealms all of a sudden.

In hindsight, it wasn't a good idea to post that thread and make wild assumptions.

What I find disturbing is the amount of veteran people who up and left after all these years.

Think about it like this: Would you get up and leave if the game was close to being finished and walk away from what is likely to be one of the best selling games ever and *also* forfeit all your bonuses tied into the sales of it?

While I'm sure the game will have content those guys contributed, it boggles my mind that they have walked away without sharing in the game's eventual financial rewards, some of them having been there from the start of the project.

To me, that's a huge decision to make, certainly not an easy one. While I won't say all their time there was a waste(that would be foolish) I will say it must be disheartening for them to know that they'll never see any financial gain from the game for their time there.

Now I could be mistaken and maybe those guys had other things in their contracts that would give them bonuses irregardless of their employment there or not. However, I do believe(as someone pointed out to me) that on the hiring page it pretty much states you'll only get bonuses/commission with every game you ship while at the company.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this *IS* a much bigger situation then we are being led to believe.

Every time a new developer comes onto the team, it's a safe bet the development time is further impacted as that person has to learn all the engine's features, tricks, programming design issues, etc. It's not like these guys are coming in and immediately starting work on the game like they haven't missed a beat. There's a learning curve there, it's normal and expected...but it also slows down the process which leads to further delays.

While you guys should know I'm pretty much a blind faith follower of 3dr, I still can be objective and lodge constructive criticism their way. It's normal and not out of line at all.

I think there's something very wrong down there. It's obvious. 10 years for any game is much too long for anyone to be working on. So in that respect, I can see why perhaps it was just a "burnout" issue with those guys leaving but I honestly think there's a lot more to it of which we may never really find out.

But Kaiser, it's none of our business! Yes and no. We're not entitled to know every single detail of why anyone chooses to leave. It's not any of our business. However, I think there has to come a time for 3drealms/George/Scott to come out and let the fans know what the hell is going on down there in regards to the game itself.

The "area 51" stuff was fine years ago. It's now coming back to bite them in the asses imho. Look, there's nothing 3drealms could say at this point that would further damage their reputation imho. Frankly, they're a long running joke in the greater pc gaming fan community(and God knows I've done my share of defending them everytime we get a lame DNF joke.)

Scott Miller said over a year ago they could have gone to the *2005* E3 show with DNF and had a great showing. George has shown screenshots to a fellow shacker. What's the deal then for us? The fans that have lived and breathed 3drealms/DNF and always rallied around them. We get threads locked and sent angry pms for inquiring about the game when we know damn well it would seem the game is in really great shape to be shown. We're the ones being ridiculed and told "don't talk about this or that!" It's simply maddening.

Don't get me wrong, George and 3dr have been good to us. It's the freaking silence after all these years that I(and other people I presume) are upset with. It's not wrong for us fans to feel that way.

I guess what it all boils down to me is the fact I've become very disenchanted with the game now. It hurts me to say that but I'm being honest. I don't think the game is anywhere near being close to done. My passion for the game is old now. It's basically become a big joke to people and frankly I have only myself to blame. It's what I deserve for believing in a game that may never see the light of day.

Who knows where we go from here. It's anyone's guess really. At this point though, I just feel like the wheels are spinning but the car isn't moving.

-Kaiser
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User is offline   Micki! 

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#16

That's a whole damn article there Kaiser... :)

Anyways, you have some good points, i must agree with that...
I understand, that it's not our business to know what's going on inside 3DR regarding people leaving/joining... And that we, as hardcore fans, feel very worried of the well going of the game...

But what exactly are we worrying for..?
Is it that DNF will be cancelled..? (i don't think so) or the fact that they lost some of thier "veteran" employees..? I see that it's wierd they left despite the "royality" they'd get if they stayed untill shipping it...

This could very well mean it's quite some time left before DNF is done

But i STILL doubt it'll be cancelled...Maybe delayed, and it might come out later... But no way we are gonna wait forever (no pun intended), because they HAVE new developers... And even if these people have to learn the engine, and whatnot first, they are still there, meaning that eventually, they'll be actively working on DNF, and finally finish it...

Besides, i expect 3DR hired these people becasue they are tallented... Even if it takes some time, or not for them to "learn" things, we must assume these people will make whatever they do, as good as they can...

A true genius does not need boundaries such as 'common sense'
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User is offline   Splat 

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  #17

Posted Image

:)

Duke4.net Graphics Whore
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User is offline   Cerberus_e 

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#18

"It's time to kick arse and chew bubblegum, but I'm all out of employees!"
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User is offline   Micki! 

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#19

RedSplat, on Sep 1 2006, 06:24 PM, said:



Awesome pic... B)

A true genius does not need boundaries such as 'common sense'
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User is offline   avatar_58 

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#20

Kaiser - yeah we all feel this media blackout sucks. Don't worry, its not just you. I don't mind that they refuse to share media perse, but what about details? Even a small "its okay, we feel we're on track, yadda yadda" would do me just fine.

I respect George and Joe a great deal, but surely they know how this makes us feel?

For instance I emailed Al lowe (yeah, the larry guy) and he emailed twice in response answering my questions directly and even promising me some new info later. Thats true fan devotion and the reason I loved Sierra to pieces. He didn't give away jack shit about his new game, but he answered me and assured me its on track and info was coming.

I also emailed Christy Marx (conquest of the longbow) and she answered me directly saying an MMO or adventure might be coming. How do you like that? Its on her website now, but I didn't see it when she mentioned it to me. Thats the kind of stuff I want from 3DR - clear cut answers that don't give out media or inside details, but assure me everything is going smoothly.

We also have to see this from their side. They have been burned dozens of times in the past for those trailers and feature lists. Unfortunately they also get burned for not saying anything. I imagine its not very fun for George to be the blunt end of jokes no matter what he does, and to have his quotes warped and recorded for all time. Not a potshot at Duke4, but how do you think he feels when his quotes are set in stone? Thats why he can't go giving out any info because it will upset fans if its not in DNF on release.

Either way they say they are fine and its none of our business why those folks left. I say we give them the benefit of the doubt, because they've yet to let us down. :)
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User is offline   WorkWandaWork 

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#21

Cerberus_e, on Sep 1 2006, 02:44 PM, said:

"It's time to kick arse and chew bubblegum, but I'm all out of employees!"
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Oh my... I blew my water out my nose when I read that. :)
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User is offline   Kathy 

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#22

Wieder, on Sep 2 2006, 03:48 AM, said:

Oh my... I blew my water out my nose when I read that. :)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah, it's funny. But in a kinda freaky way...

Windows incompatibility is a feature, not a bug.
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User is offline   Micki! 

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#23

Wieder, on Sep 2 2006, 02:48 AM, said:

Oh my... I blew my water out my nose when I read that. B)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Probably because, YOU WERE ONE OF THEM!!! :) B)

Damnit, where's that Ted smiley when you need it..?! B)

A true genius does not need boundaries such as 'common sense'
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User is offline   avatar_58 

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#24

If anything this news story sure stirred interest in DNF up quite a bit. The DNF forums are back to discussions and people from all different sites are commenting.

3DRealms has everyone's attention, lets see what they do with it.
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User is offline   Splat 

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  #25

Quote

3DRealms has everyone's attention, lets see what they do with it.


Errr, nothing?
Like we all know, they don't want attention....yet.

It might just be a good idea for them to show who works at 3D Realms by reopening the staff page. That'll give some certitude. :)

Duke4.net Graphics Whore
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User is offline   kaisersoze 

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#26

RedSplat, on Sep 2 2006, 10:20 AM, said:

Errr, nothing?
Like we all know, they don't want attention....yet.

It might just be a good idea for them to show who works at 3D Realms by reopening the staff page.  That'll give some certitude.  :)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I don't think they'll ever put the staff page back up.

For what it's worth, there's currently around 18 DNF staff members. Give or take a few. Of course, this depends on who else might be leaving or coming on/in the hiring process. It's still a fair amount of people on board but the question now is how experienced are those guys? If the majority of them are new hires, there's gonna be some additional delays.

Also, I want to clarify that just because 10 veteran staff members left the team, doesn't mean the employees who are there now are incapable of doing the game justice. I want to make that perfectly clear. I have the utmost faith in the current team to hopefully right that boat and plug away at finishing it. B)
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User is offline   Micki! 

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#27

kaisersoze, on Sep 2 2006, 07:41 PM, said:

Also, I want to clarify that just because 10 veteran staff members left the team, doesn't mean the employees who are there now are incapable of doing the game justice. I want to make that perfectly clear. I have the utmost faith in the current team to hopefully right that boat and plug away at finishing it.  :)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That's the spirit... B)

NOW KEEP IT!!! Posted Image
B)

A true genius does not need boundaries such as 'common sense'
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User is offline   WorkWandaWork 

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#28

Micki!, on Sep 2 2006, 03:53 AM, said:

Probably because, YOU WERE ONE OF THEM!!! :)  B)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Possibly... or maybe it was just that funny. B)

Anyways... I wanted to let you guys know that in light of the shacknews stuff I won't be able to do the interview you all put together for me unless you're ok with me avoiding all the questions that would be interesting (vs the fluff stuff you pretty much already know).

I had been holding off precisely because I was concerned about the potential sensitivity surrounding the departure(s), which has now shown to be the right decision.

I appreciated it and really wanted to but considering the situation it didn't seem like a good idea. Hope that makes sense.
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User is offline   Cerberus_e 

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#29

Now avatar will hate them even more :) B)
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User is offline   avatar_58 

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#30

Cerberus_e, on Sep 3 2006, 07:03 PM, said:

Now avatar will hate them even more :) B)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hate who? B) I don't blame him, if he said the wrong thing it would be all mis-used. At this point I think too many eyes are on 3DR to slip up. Frankly I'm a little confused why that is just from some small article.
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