Duke4.net Forums: T2 Lawsuit Disposed? New documents! - Duke4.net Forums

Jump to content

Hide message Show message
Welcome to the Duke4.net Forums!

Register an account now to get access to all board features. After you've registered and logged in, you'll be able to create topics, post replies, send and receive private messages, disable the viewing of ads and more!

  • 4 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

T2 Lawsuit Disposed? New documents!  "Is the case over?"

User is offline   ultra tree 85! 

  • Honored Donor
  • 2

#61

View Postkaisersoze, on Feb 11 2010, 05:15 AM, said:

Just a quick thought.

There was a 5 million dollar amount being thrown around that 3dr apparently asked Take 2 for to complete DNF. When Take 2 balked,
George let the team go.

Now, is it possible that 3dr had let's say 2 million dollars laying around and was able to pick up an outside developer to finish the game?

I presume the 5 million amount was the money needed to pay 3dr employees so they could get to the end of development. By cutting the staff,
could it have possibly "brought" the completion amount down for a third party like Gearbox or Humanhead to finish it?


Despite the fact that George and Scott have said nothing on the subject of the possible external development of DNF, there is, in my opinion, considerable evidence that the game is being worked on by an outside party. Just a couple of months after the team was released, Scott began making interesting posts on Facebook which included unreleased screenshots of the game. On one of these posts he wrote that Duke was "back in the game" which seemed to be referring to DNF, especially since it was accompanied by a screenshot that was obviously from DNF. The interesting thing is that around the same time, 3D Realms sold the Prey IP, which probably made them several million dollars. My thinking at this point is that the timing there couldn't have been entirely coincidental, and the likely scenario is that 3D Realms used the money from Prey to pay an advance to an external developer, who is now completing the game. :lol:
0

User is offline   Master Fibbles 

  • I have the power!
  • 389

#62

3DR sold several of their IPs to Apogee at one point. Most of these said IPs are not known at this time (ROTT is the only one that I can think of off the top of my head). I thought Prey was sold a while ago...

There is a lot of unreleased information regarding the case and DNF itself (and those are probably related). I think it is best to not speculate...

I'm still smarter than you
0

User is offline   BugsBunny 

  • 6

#63

View PostDavoX, on Feb 11 2010, 09:59 AM, said:

One thing that bugs me is... that GB promised they would give them royalties for the game when it's released as an excuse for paying them low salaries...now that the team was let go, GB doesn't have to pay any royalties to them.


Any idea about how much George was paying them in salaries ? With 5 million in mind it would be possible for us to estimate how many months of development effort was left on DNF.

Of course then taking in the fact that George's expenses were not only employee salaries but also various types of bills for the office, the estimated period could be shortened even further.
0

User is offline   kaisersoze 

  • Honored Donor
  • 75

#64

From the sounds of it, 3drealms was very close to the end. I think the team was let go in May and internal deadlines may have been set around November to get the game done.

Others here may have more info though. I'm pretty sure that's what was mentioned/speculated.

No ideas about salaries for his guys though I'm sure they were at least around industry average I would presume. Their benefits sounded pretty nice as well.

I've been flat out told privately Humanhead is not in the picture. Gearbox? Who knows? Starbreeze?

This post has been edited by kaisersoze: 11 February 2010 - 06:30 PM

0

User is offline   VinsaneOne 

  • 142

#65

View PostDavoX, on Feb 11 2010, 11:59 AM, said:

One thing that bugs me is... that GB promised they would give them royalties for the game when it's released as an excuse for paying them low salaries...now that the team was let go, GB doesn't have to pay any royalties to them.

That crossed my mind too. But another more than likely reason the team was let go. GB knew a bit in advance, and he just avoided having his team being dragged into court as well. A smart move imo.
0

User is online   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor
  • 3,756

#66

I'd just like to point out that the thread title should be changed so it no longer says 'new documents'...

Polymer wishlist: Global illumination, SSAO, Bloom, reflective surfaces, adjustable specular (wetness), volumetric lighting.
Mapper of the Month December 2014.

Herbs? Tell me more!
0

#67

Prey 2 and maybe the whole Prey IP got sold to Zenimax, a company which I hate intensely (and I do mean intensely, even more than Activision).
0

User is offline   BugsBunny 

  • 6

#68

Hmmm Zenimax owns id Software. So the next id games, Rage, Doom 4, Quake 5 Arena and next Wolfenstein will all be from then.

There goes my next 5 years of life <_<
0

User is offline   blackharted 

  • -63

#69

View PostMicky C, on Feb 12 2010, 04:24 AM, said:

I'd just like to point out that the thread title should be changed so it no longer says 'new documents'...

Whats wrong with them?

I don't want your blackhart I've countless billions of those.

The hardest part of ending is starting again!

Trolling's awesome.
0

User is offline   ReaperMan 

  • 1,266

#70

They are old documents, not new documents.
0

User is offline   Zor 

  • 91

#71

OMG it's disposed!!!!


Um... what does that mean?!
0

User is offline   Kristian Joensen 

  • 215

#72

On the whole ZeniMax thing, I do remember Scott saying something on facebook about signing some kind of big deal with an up and coming publisher. Maybe there was more to the ZeniMax deal than the sale of the Prey IP?

Also Mr. Flibble, the new Apogee hasn't bought any 3DR IP outright, they only have licenses from 3DR to those IP's.

Also just because Scott said that letting the internal team go didn't mean development had stopped doesn't mean that it has continued at a 3rd party in the traditional way 3DR has worked with 3rd parties. What I mean is, we have wondered if 3DR has made a deal involving 3rd party funding of DNF, why they then haven't rehired the team. One scenario that could explain 3DR rehiring the team, which might still only involve 3DR funds would be if the game was off-shored and finished in some place where game development is cheaper than in Western Europe or North America. Even if 3DR can't afford to have pay their team any more, the might still be able to afford paying a cheaper team to finish it.

Alternatively when Scott said the game is still being worked on, that can just mean that they still have contractors(Ala how they have used Feng Zhu, Liquid Development or the Soule brothers in the past) doing DNF related work every once in a while, moving the game along on a snail pace.

Alot of possibilities.

Frightfan: Should we wait until GT is persuaded to release the entire Blood source code?

Matt Saettler: Don't know about the Blood source from lith. I doubt they'll release it.

Frightfan: [Jason Hall] already said he would if it were up to him, but it isn't - it's GTI's game now.

Matt Saettler: Jace is wrong. I'm the one that negotiated the contracts. Jace probably doesn't even know what's really in them....
0

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer
  • 2,149

#73

If I were GB, I'd be farming out bits and pieces of work to various parties on a freelance basis. That way, you could progress at a small pace, in fits and starts as cash is available. You don't need to worry about a regular payroll, electricity, benefits, insurance or any of the other garbage associated with hiring a large group of people permanently. Also, you would be slowly building a group of people who knew the engine and the game system in general. When/if you got the green light to continue with the game, you could even turn around and hire your former freelancers as full time game staff.

I have no real idea of how far the game had progressed. I'm assuming that most art and code was done and that they were working on levels and props. If that were the case, then you could easily continue that kind of development with a group of contractors or freelancers. You'd hand one level designer a level to do. He can't see what else is going on with everyone else as in an office situation. As he works on the map he decides he needs different props to complete the map. George gets the list and farms it out to one or two or three different modellers.

You know what would be the biggest laugh in all the universe? If GB had decided to do yet another restart and decided to outsource the whole lot this time. We're all sitting here griping that DNF is dead and it's actually very much alive and kicking - in Mumbai!

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 03 March 2010 - 01:01 PM

0

User is offline   VinsaneOne 

  • 142

#74

Hey, you never know. Quite possible i'd say....
0

User is offline   scubagear 

  • 0

#75

Hi there,

what about THEY DO NOT WANT to "give" us DNF?
GB & SM have it's done for (don't have time to) PLAY WITH MYSELF :-) as duke say's.

Someone could begin think exactly this, if you followed some of the last messages from SM.
He talked about all the money they earn from the past titles, sales figures, IP's they sold and some
luck with shares. MILLIONS over MILLIONS altogether.

Do you really think they need money??? Maybe they lost a great amount of it in the last two years caused by the "global economic climate change" by the bank crisis.
Nothing own money left for the king?

It's obvious that they want the complete deal if it comes out and so they wouldn't allow T2
to get their "dirty fingers" on that cake, but why? T2/rockstar/2k games was often involved for the
physically distro in the past (prey,...). What's the main cause for 3dr and T2 feed lawyers?
Are T2 too greedy now or it's finally a personal crusade, what do you think?
0

User is offline   crunchysuperman 

  • Honored Donor
  • 0

#76

View Postscubagear, on Mar 4 2010, 03:16 PM, said:

Hi there,

what about THEY DO NOT WANT to "give" us DNF?
GB & SM have it's done for (don't have time to) PLAY WITH MYSELF :-) as duke say's.

Someone could begin think exactly this, if you followed some of the last messages from SM.
He talked about all the money they earn from the past titles, sales figures, IP's they sold and some
luck with shares. MILLIONS over MILLIONS altogether.

Do you really think they need money??? Maybe they lost a great amount of it in the last two years caused by the "global economic climate change" by the bank crisis.
Nothing own money left for the king?

It's obvious that they want the complete deal if it comes out and so they wouldn't allow T2
to get their "dirty fingers" on that cake, but why? T2/rockstar/2k games was often involved for the
physically distro in the past (prey,...). What's the main cause for 3dr and T2 feed lawyers?
Are T2 too greedy now or it's finally a personal crusade, what do you think?


If they had money, they wouldn't have laid off the development team.
0

User is offline   ReaperMan 

  • 1,266

#77

View Postscubagear, on Mar 4 2010, 03:16 PM, said:

Hi there,

what about THEY DO NOT WANT to "give" us DNF?
GB & SM have it's done for (don't have time to) PLAY WITH MYSELF :-) as duke say's.

Someone could begin think exactly this, if you followed some of the last messages from SM.
He talked about all the money they earn from the past titles, sales figures, IP's they sold and some
luck with shares. MILLIONS over MILLIONS altogether.

Do you really think they need money??? Maybe they lost a great amount of it in the last two years caused by the "global economic climate change" by the bank crisis.
Nothing own money left for the king?

It's obvious that they want the complete deal if it comes out and so they wouldn't allow T2
to get their "dirty fingers" on that cake, but why? T2/rockstar/2k games was often involved for the
physically distro in the past (prey,...). What's the main cause for 3dr and T2 feed lawyers?
Are T2 too greedy now or it's finally a personal crusade, what do you think?


I don't usually say this about people who just joined but seriously what are you smoking?
0

User is offline   scubagear 

  • 0

#78

View PostReaperMan, on Mar 5 2010, 02:24 AM, said:

I don't usually say this about people who just joined but seriously what are you smoking?


Maybe rolls of money <_< ?


"just joined" is not correct anyway. i'am patiently waiting for the game since 1997.
referring to this forum i'am visiting it for only about one year. ok, It's a shame for me!
0

User is offline   scubagear 

  • 0

#79

View Postcrunchysuperman, on Mar 4 2010, 09:55 PM, said:

If they had money, they wouldn't have laid off the development team.


We don't really know. To state this, was my
intention. And why should activision let their head's go? But this is going to be off topic here.
0

User is offline   Commando Nukem 

  • Judge Mental
  • 2,475

#80

View Postcrunchysuperman, on Mar 4 2010, 01:55 PM, said:

If they had money, they wouldn't have laid off the development team.


Not true. One could fire the team to prevent completely breaking the bank.

People keep saying they filed for bankruptcy. No they didnt. They merely fired the team. That doesnt mean they completely ran dry, and it doesnt mean anything else either. They fired the team because Take2 refused additional funnding for DNF and its seems their reasons were unreasonable. Keep in mind people that it was 3D Realms that paid for DNF all these years, not Take 2.

I keep hearing "greed" brought up in relation to Scott and George, too... Which is kinda ironic. Greed doesnt marry well with "12 years of development." If we were dealing with a problem of greed, the problem would be too many Duke Nukem games all built around milking the franchise.

OPEN MAW PRODUCTIONS
Facebook Youtube and Twitter
0

User is offline   ReaperMan 

  • 1,266

#81

View PostCommando Nukem, on Apr 25 2010, 08:04 PM, said:

I keep hearing "greed" brought up in relation to Scott and George, too... Which is kinda ironic. Greed doesnt marry well with "12 years of development." If we were dealing with a problem of greed, the problem would be too many Duke Nukem games all built around milking the franchise.


Stop bringing logic to DNF threads, your confusing people. :o
0

User is offline   Inspector Lagomorf 

  • Glory To Motherland!
  • -4,939

#82

Must we perennially revive this lost cause of a thread?
Then again, I suppose it's par for the course on the DNF forums.

Commando Nukem said:

I keep hearing "greed" brought up in relation to Scott and George, too... Which is kinda ironic.


It's more regarding the unfortunate incident where George gambled away DNF funds that drove people to that particular noun.

Cobrastan is not a real country.
Keep Radar away!
0

User is offline   Commando Nukem 

  • Judge Mental
  • 2,475

#83

 

View PostThe Mighty Bison, on Apr 25 2010, 07:50 PM, said:

Must we perennially revive this lost cause of a thread?
Then again, I suppose it's par for the course on the DNF forums.


Two options, we keep talking, or the place dies. Amiright? I dont think we want it to die!

View PostThe Mighty Bison, on Apr 25 2010, 07:50 PM, said:

It's more regarding the unfortunate incident where George gambled away DNF funds that drove people to that particular noun.


Never once did George "gamble away" DNF funds, he gambled away his own money. Some thousands of dollars, hardly enough to finish the game, which required millions. Hardly enough to keep the whole team employed for more than a few hours. Sure, that looks callous and cold, but its not greed.

OPEN MAW PRODUCTIONS
Facebook Youtube and Twitter
0

User is offline   Master Fibbles 

  • I have the power!
  • 389

#84

View PostCommando Nukem, on Apr 26 2010, 02:19 AM, said:

Two options, we keep talking, or the place dies. Amiright? I dont think we want it to die!

Speak for yourself. I say we burn this mother down!

I'm still smarter than you
0

User is offline   Commando Nukem 

  • Judge Mental
  • 2,475

#85

View PostMr.Flibble, on Apr 26 2010, 06:42 AM, said:

Speak for yourself. I say we burn this mother down!


You say that about every place you go to. :o

OPEN MAW PRODUCTIONS
Facebook Youtube and Twitter
0

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer
  • 2,149

#86

There is a world of difference between "Letting it die" and "Putting it out of it's misery"
0

User is offline   Commando Nukem 

  • Judge Mental
  • 2,475

#87

View PostTea Monster, on Apr 26 2010, 09:23 AM, said:

There is a world of difference between "Letting it die" and "Putting it out of it's misery"


Yeah, no kidding.

The problem is, if we all shut up, its "letting it die." So what you said, while witty my good man, is entirely irrelevant.


I want DNF, T2 needs to STFU and GTFO imo. Just sayin' ... :lol:

OPEN MAW PRODUCTIONS
Facebook Youtube and Twitter
0

User is offline   Master Fibbles 

  • I have the power!
  • 389

#88

View PostCommando Nukem, on Apr 26 2010, 10:12 AM, said:

You say that about every place you go to. :D

Not true...some places I add "fucker" in there somewhere. :lol:

I'm still smarter than you
0

User is offline   VinsaneOne 

  • 142

#89

View PostCommando Nukem, on Apr 26 2010, 10:12 AM, said:

You say that about every place you go to, fucker. :lol:
There, fixed!
0

User is online   DavoX 

  • Honored Donor
  • 734

#90

Correct me if I'm mistaken but this is my view on the layoffs:

When you fire someone, you must give them 3 salaries right there as compensation. Let's say each person earned 3 thousand per month (could be easily more but let's stay on that number). So, how many people where in 3DR? 30? Ok...That's 90.000 each month. Now, if you fire those 30 people you must give each person 9.000 dollars. 9 thousand x 30 = 270.000. If we round up because some people probably earned 4 to 9 thousand each month, then we can say that 3DR had to spend 300.000 when they fired the team.

Maybe 3DR "Could" continue working on DNF, but we don't know for how long...if they run dry, so dry that they can't pay that 300.000 dollars to their employees if they have to fire them, then 3DR would be in legal trouble.
0

Share this topic:


  • 4 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic


All copyrights and trademarks are property of their respective owners. Instead of reading this text, you could be playing Ion Maiden! ;) © 2018 Voidpoint, LLC

Enter your sign in name and password


Sign in options