[Cerberus_e]

The graphics are very good, I love the shadows of the trees where you can see all those leafs. I think this game has the best graphics I ever saw.

This game managed to capture the wild west culture very well, even better than Outlaws did. Definitely looking forward to the full game (but they need to do something about the performance! I saw this game is programmed in Java when I looked at the directory structure in explorer, so I'm not sure if they will be able to fix it without having to rewrite everything). The loading times are unacceptable though. Does it also take two minutes for you guys?

I think the dualling is kind of bad, it would have been more fun the old fashioned way: 2 cowboys are standing with their backs to each other, walk 7 steps forward, turn around, and shoot.

The sneaking also isn't all that, and picking boxes up results in you unable to see anything because the box takes up your whole screen. this is not a problem with the size of the boxes, but ith the ridiculously small FOV, are they planning on changing that? Or isn't there enough complaint about it? I'll try to find a way to contact the developers about it. Any ideas?

As you all know, I've never been a fan of slowmotion, but in this game it really fits, to pull of the double crosshair trick! It's really fun. It's also limited in a good way (having to holster it first). I hope it's something that stays unique to that game though. I also like quoting the bible to confuse the enemies. When they were advertising this feature, I was against it, because it seemed like a dumb gameplay element to me that would make it too easy, but now I've played the demo, I actually like it, because it's underpowered.

The level design is also great: Back to the days of Outlaws! Hopefully they'll maintain the good level design for the other levels in the full game, so that the demo isn't the best part of the game like Prey.

The storyline is very interesting, and the characters very well fleshed out (the preacher is so terrifying. He has the personality of a real preacher with guns that takes religion as an excuse. His model also looks very good, with full body awareness, and ugly hands (green between his nails)).

[Micki!]

Yeah, it looks cool... i read peoples opinions about it at 3DR...
I hope it plays as great as it looks...

[Halcyon]

I didn't have time to play the demo yet. But I'm looking forward to this game as I really like the scenario. There are not many wild west games available, so I think I'll give this one a try once the full version is out. Any official words on a release date yet?

[avatar_58]

It was definately an enjoyable demo. I wouldn't say its the best looking foliage out there, but then you've not played Oblivion have you Cerb From far the trees look a little too harsh, and for some reason it runs far worse than it looks.

I can probably get better performance if I remove SM3 support, but then I loose that amazing Depth of Field effect. If you haven't seen that in action you have to find someone with a card that supports it and steal their PC for a second I like the effect very much.

On whole I could consider getting this game as it was quite fun, but I want to hear more about optimizations and a full review before shelling out.

[Cerberus_e]

avatar_58, on Jul 30 2006, 10:09 AM, said:

It was definately an enjoyable demo. I wouldn't say its the best looking foliage out there, but then you've not played Oblivion have you Cerb

Grr. But just look at those shadows:
http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca...juarez10ej4.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=c...fjuarez7dc2.jpg
Particularly the shadows all individuel leafs are casting! In real-time! It amazes me.

avatar_58, on Jul 30 2006, 10:09 AM, said:

From far the trees look a little too harsh, and for some reason it runs far worse than it looks.

Trust me: that "some reason" is because of the shadows all individual leafs are casting, and especially because it runs in Java

avatar_58, on Jul 30 2006, 10:09 AM, said:

I can probably get better performance if I remove SM3 support, but then I loose that amazing Depth of Field effect. If you haven't seen that in action you have to find someone with a card that supports it and steal their PC for a second I like the effect very much.

Like you know, I have a Geforce 6 card. I tried SM3 to see how depth of field looks, and it's not wrong, no. But I really suggest you use shader model 2. However, the forest still runs crappily in SM 2 for me

Halcyon, on Jul 30 2006, 09:35 AM, said:

Any official words on a release date yet?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I heard us Europeans are going to get a rushed release, while they'll wait nicely to release the game in the US together with the consoles. It's not fair, I also want the game to arrive together with the consoles

Micki!, on Jul 30 2006, 09:14 AM, said:

Yeah, it looks cool... i read peoples opinions about it at 3DR...

So mine doesn't count?
I also read the 3D Realms thread and it seems I'm not alone with the long loading times and the dislike of how it uses Java.

Micki!, on Jul 30 2006, 09:14 AM, said:

I hope it plays as great as it looks...
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It really does
I'll tell you more: The game plays as great as it slows down! Now that's praise for the gameplay!

By the way, any one else loves the horse riding? I think it's very satisfying when you are sprinting with your horse. You constantly hear the hooves of the horse, it's way more satisfying than driving a car. I love the level design of that farm where you have to sneak in, and then jump over those 2 rows of wooden poles

The level design in the first level was great as well of course, I got Outlaws flashbacks. But those physics puzzles where you have to put crates on ramps of wood (near the end of the second level, before you jump on the water tower and go to the duel?) that Half-Life 2 kickstarted are getting on my nerves, am I the only one thinking so?

[avatar_58]

It uses JAVA?? Well I guess that explains the long load times and crappy performance.....although mighty impressive.

[Cerberus_e]

You can see it uses Java when you go to the folder of the game in explorer.
It's funny, the crappy performance is now impressive performance, because it uses Java
you didn't read the post that started this thread, right? I already mentioned it uses Java there.

[avatar_58]

As impressive as it is that they get this kind of program out of java, it doesn't change the fact that its bloated and unoptmized. I would rather they had used speedtree and a more stable engine.

[Cerberus_e]

The unfortunate thing is that it's only in the forest where the shadows give me crappy performance. and you're through the forest in, what? 30 seconds?
It sucks to have to completely turn off shadows for small parts of the game like that, if the rest of the game runs very well with low quality shadows (and looks very good with it! Without shadows the forest looks so bland, and it hurts the atmosphere.)

Like I said, the individual shadows for the leafs of the trees are very impressive, and it sucks I have to turn them completely off in the game, just for little and rare parts like the part in the beginning of the forest. I'm missing out on the shadows in the bigger part of the game then (city etc), when it would normally still have been smooth with shadows turned on.

But no, because of rare demanding parts like the forest that only take 30 seconds, I have to completely turn it off, for the rest of the game as well.

[Kristian Joensen]

Cerb, does the game have an .exe ? If it does I doubt the game in its entirity is written in Java. I highly doubt that say the engine is written in Java. Perphaps the gameplay code is written in Java. However that in itself shouldn't make the game slow. For instanceUE3(and UE2 and UE1) uses UnrealScript for its gameplay code. Lots of games use various scripting languages for their gameplay code.

This is mostly code that isn't timecritical at all.

Also Java itself isn't inherently slow. Java is just a language, there is nothing with its syntax that makes it inherently slow. However Java isn't usually compiled to native code. Usually it is compiled to bytecode which is then interpreted this is why it has historicaly been known for its slowness.

However most current Java VM's are based around the concept of Just-In-Time compilation.

[Cerberus_e]

C:\Program Files\UBISOFT\Call of Juarez SP Demo\CoJDemo.exe

It uses an exe file. But it has directories called jre and java. And Chrome (the previous game of Techland) was also programmed in Java so I heard.

[Kristian Joensen]

Cerberus_e, on Jul 31 2006, 11:08 AM, said:

C:\Program Files\UBISOFT\Call of Juarez SP Demo\CoJDemo.exe

It uses an exe file. But it has directories called jre and java. And Chrome (the previous game of Techland) was also programmed in Java so I heard.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ohh, I am not doubting you at all Cerb, but the question is WHAT part of it is written in Java.

Btw, is the exe file big ? are there any .dlls ?

[Cerberus_e]

Wait a second...

[Cerberus_e]

Kristian Joensen, on Jul 31 2006, 02:14 PM, said:

Btw, is the exe file big ? are there any .dlls ?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your wish is my command:
http://www.rootshell...llofjuarez.html
Now you know EVERYTHING

[Cerberus_e]

So is this game released now or what? The silence around this game is amazing, and today is supposed to be the release date! I haven't heard ANYTHING about it And that for one of the biggest game releases this year.
Someone posted about it a few days ago on 3DR but that's pretty suspicious because it's BEFORE the release date... but then again he's from Germany. What is happening with this game?

[Cerberus_e]

Yahoo the game is indeed released! It's in my local shop already and I didn't know
Call of Juarez is what I call a "stealth release" Currently installing...

[Damien_Azreal]

Since building my new PC I've thought about trying the demo again. Since the demo ran horribly on my old PC... I lost complete interest in the game.

No matter how many times somebody told me the performance in the final game was much MUCH better, I didn't care. The demo did not sell me because of it's horrid frame rates which led to choppy gameplay.

Maybe I should try the demo again, now that I have a PC that will be able to chew it up and spit it out.

[Cerberus_e]

Yes you should, since this is a VERY good game
Performance didn't improve overall, but they probably cut down on shadows or so in the forest level(s) to make it less demanding.
And if I can run it with a 6600GT you should definitely have been able to run it with your previous PC, smoothly!!

[Damien_Azreal]

It could run on my previous PC... but to get it running it looked like shit. And the forest level ran like utter shit.

I couldn't understand the performance for the graphics in the game, while the game did look good... it didn't make sense. Oblivion and FEAR both looked better and ran better.
But then I learned the game was built in Java and it clicked in my head. But it was to late, the damage done. I had lost interest with it.

I'm currently downloading the demo right now... we'll see how it goes on this PC. I'm not a graphics whore by any means, but to me... if a game is going to perform for shit... the graphics had better justify such performance.
And to me, CoJ didn't justify the frame rate given the visuals.

[Cerberus_e]

I don't agree it looks like shit to get it running... I mean, look at the screenshots I posted at the top of this thread and in what did ou play most recently a lot of pages ago

[Damien_Azreal]

Okay, I've had the demo on my PC for the past three days and haven't played it... until today. I got distracted.

But it runs much better this time around. I ran the demo at 1280*960, full details, shadows shaders at 3.0 and depth of field. It ran smooth as silk, no slow downs, stuttering and pauses.

Gameplay wise, the gunplay is pretty good in the Ray level. I like having one gun and the bible. Two guns feels little odd, but it is handy when in focus mode.
I will agree that dueling is shit, the way it's setup is horrid. I simply don't like the idea. There were probably much better ways of doing it.

Billy's level... well. First off the forests look great, not as amazing as people make them out to be... but very nice. Easily on level with STALKER in places.
The stealth is a little clunky at times, and picking up and item and walking around with it a bitch.
Trying to carry the fucking saddle into the barn was hell. I could barely see around it.

Graphically it looks good, the HDR is very nicely used, not overdone or to bright. The addition of FBA (Full Body Awareness) is very nice, though the arms seem a little stiff when you look straight down.


All in all it could be worth owning, I'll do some looking around at the patches issued for the game and see what kind of fixes they've made to it. And if I happen upon a copy that's in a good price range I may just get it.


But honestly Cerb, on my old PC... this game was shit. Even though my old PC could run Oblivion and FEAR... something in this just put it down. I've read that some ATi cards had bad issues with this game, so that could've been the reason.
On this PC it almost seems like a completely different game.

[Damien_Azreal]

This was posted at the 3DRealms forums by Duke Rocks, so I simply copied it here.

It's a developer diary entry about changes made to the game for the upcoming US release.

Quote

"All levels have been once again assessed step-by-step in terms of their playability, attractiveness and understandability. At nearly every step we made bigger or smaller changes that improved the reception of every level. Some of them were almost remade from scratch. The rebuilt beginning of the game dramatically changes the first impression. In the EU version, you had to wait for about 30 minutes until you got to shoot at somebody. The X360 version the game starts with one of the more intense shootouts in the entire game, and the length of introduction to the game has been cut in half and extensively rebuilt in terms of gameplay dynamics.

At first sight, the most visible change is better graphics. Xbox 360, thanks to its technology and the uniformity of the platform allowed us to squeeze even more from the hardware than from a PC with DirectX 9-compatible cards. In addition to fluid gameplay for the duration of the entire game, the levels load several times faster. If you compare screenshots from both versions, you can observe huge changes in the appearance of the surroundings - rocks, plants, lighting, object details, as well as AI appearance. For the X360 version, new "motion capture" animations have been implemented. Most of the cutscenes have been replayed using "motion capture". We have also introduced a vast number of minor improvements that influenced the overall reception of the game.


The most important change as far as gameplay goes is the redesign of levels featuring Billy. The players can now choose whether they want to sneak and silently go past the enemies or to face them in combat. In the X360 version, Billy much more often has access to a bow and arrows and weapons taken from defeated enemies. If the player prefers quick action and brutal solutions over sneaking subtly and cleverly avoiding the enemies, he or she now definitely has much more opportunities to take on a fight.

3 entirely new levels and a prologue that weren't in the PC EU version have also appeared. Even though they are separate from the main plot, they have a story of their own and offer additional time to be spent on shootouts and duels in the Old West scenery.

The X360 version also features an entirely new gameplay mode - "Duel Challenge". After defeating a boss in the story mode, you can also face him in this new variant. A high-noon duel, where your reflexes and sharp eye decide on the victory is the quintessence of the Wild West. Now you can try to not only defeat other gunfighters, but also to do it as quickly as you can.



Multiplayer has also been substantially altered and improved. The most visible difference is the addition of horses to the MP mode. Of course, horse riding is possible only on special, vast maps. The number of unique maps is also much bigger - there now 20 of them. Additionally, every map is available in AT east Tyree of the seven modes of play.
In the X360 version, 3 new multiplayer modes have been added. The first one is "Wanted", where a randomly selected player is a target for all the others. The next one is "Capture the bag" i.e. a Western version of the "capture the flag" concept. The third one is "Famous Events", where you can take part in missions based on authentic events from the Wild West era, such as "Gunfight at the O.K. Corral, 1881" or "The Fall of the Dalton Gang, 1892"."

Sounds like nice additions/changes. But for the sake of those that have already got the game... these changes should be issued in a patch.

[Cerberus_e]

What nice additions? Sounds like they took out/changed some things I thought made this game stand out so much (first levels without gun, stealth, ...). I know you still have the option to use stealth but giving Billy a lot of ammo makes that very useless.

Sounds like they "consolised" it... and you like that?

[Damien_Azreal]

Well since they've also improved the visuals and load times... yeah, I like that.

One of the main complaints I've heard about the game is the Billy levels, frustrating, annoying... unbalanced... these are the things they've fixed and that's what I'm happy about.

But we'll just see when it's released. It'll be the only version I know, never played the UK version.

[Cerberus_e]

I don't think Billy's levels are annoying... they're very nice for variation. This game will be a whole lot different if you don't have to use stealth anymore.

[Damien_Azreal]

Well, the changes don't remove the stealth aspect... they offer more freedom. You're able to either use stealth or combat.

Gives teh player a choice of how to accomplish Billies levels.

[Cerberus_e]

I don't really like stealth when it isn't forced, makes it useless/doesn't give me a sense of accomplishment (I feel like my hard work is useless since I could just do it the quick way: shooting)

[Damien_Azreal]

I'm the opposite, I hate stealth when it's the only way.

Giving you the choice to go either way works better for me.

[Micki!]

Cerberus_e, on Jun 3 2007, 03:38 AM, said:

I don't really like stealth when it isn't forced, makes it useless/doesn't give me a sense of accomplishment (I feel like my hard work is useless since I could just do it the quick way: shooting)

The "quick way" being shooting, isn't really that quick at all... or smart at least...

You can choose either using stealth, or right-on-combat... using combat>stealth doesn't mean it's superior, and brings you further... it might actually become alot harder because of this...

So this choice sounds very good in my ears... i can even beat it in different ways later if a want to...

I REALLY hope they "fixed" some of the realism aspects of teh game...
I remeber thee being physics in the game... but rarely used at all... more things should be laying all over the place... when you take cover behind a desk, bottles should stand on the shelf behind you, or on the table... and when people shoot, they shoul break and/or fall...
I didn't like it that when picking up objects it was floating, HL2 style... i'd MUCH rather see my characters hands holding it with his hands... it HAS Full Body Awareness afterall... the HL2-picking-up thing is a big immersion breaker for me

[Damien_Azreal]

I love this game.

I've finished it once already, and started a new game. Trying out different ways or tackling fights.

I've been picking up lanterns, throwing them at groups of enemies... and watching them run around on fire.

The Billy levels are much better than it was in the demo, not being forced to stay with stealth... and given more freedom to actually fight back. I like.

Reverend Ray is still my favorite of the two characters, running up to an enemy with the double barrel and then firing both barrels into him... awesome.
I've sent many a baddie flying through the air in back flips doing this.

I'm definitely more interested in Techland's next games now. After Chrome I had no hope for the company... that game was shit. But CoJ is great. Hopefully they can keep this going with their next games.

Specifically Dead Island.