[unedukecated]

https://www.moddb.co...s/boom-operator

or

Attached File(s)

•  Boom!Op.zip (2.9MB)
  Number of downloads: 66

[ck3D]

Congrats on release! I wanted to gauge whether or not this would play fine for me in classic (seeing as I have no other option personally), so I took a quick look at the inner area in the editor in that mode, and I actually might try to play it sometime, goes without saying it would not look as intended but I'm curious if I can make it. Most likely when I'm done with playing TamDuke (also will give you time for bug fixes if needed).

Sector structure and verticality of (what I could see of) the city is a genuine solid effort, it reminds me a little of Anarxiticalcity (one of my favorite maps so a good thing) except nighttime, visually and practically with all of the ledges, heights... As soon as that feeling hit I quit the editor not to risk spoiling myself too much, it's too tempting to try and go in blind. Saw some sweet shadow work too.

Oh and the feeling of growing disgust you experienced is very common, basically was commonplace back in the 2000's when most maps still took years to make. It is your brain saying it has outgrown the map, even if the map is not done yet, and so desperate to get there faster it spirals into hyperfocus to the point where you no longer know what to build next, since you no longer have perspective on the level and so it drags on all the more... It sucks but the good news is it only gets less intense with each new map as over time and technical iteration, you become a faster mapper and start working closer to real time. You reacted well to the situation too, opting to chill instead of stressing it, that is the correct attitude to have, the other alternative is being driven crazy for years over a map that is never getting finished for as long as you won't let it go.

[Telee]

Congratulations on the release! Will try to find time to play this week and let you know my thoughts as well. Any screenshots?

[Morgensen]

Playing on CGS, i dont think there is enough ammo, you throw Octabrains, drones and commanders after the first hallway. I guess running away would help, if turning a corner wouldn´t get you insta killed by another group of enemies waiting for you.
Map is a big, well build urban setting packed with locations to roam around and explore in. lots of details and clutter, really really fun. Love the roof tops, being able to see so much and strafe jump to traverse around is always a great time, when you´re not being shot at.


There is something in the alley at the start of the map that just kills my framerate on polymer, rest of the map ran fine.

[unedukecated]

@ ck3d: thanks! And once more more personally: thanks a lot for your help man! Take your time! I am not sure if I have ever played Anarxiticalcity or not, but I will check this out today. About growing disgust - as you called it: mine started as soon as I found out I was out of walls and sprites. Give me 5000 more sprites and I might could fix it, but now I just don't want to. I am done with this map and want to draw walls in a new one finally again.

@ Telee: thanks! Take your time! Sorry, no screenshots. I want players to explore themselves.

@ Morgensen: thanks! Yes, that post-alley-part is tough and you need to look around for more ammo, sorry! You really need to watch your steps there and search for ammo. Try to move between enemy lines so they start blasting each other, saved ammo and nerves. I just wanted to make it a challenge right after a softer start.

I am aware of the alley Polymer slowdowns, it's the same for me but it's still decently playable here at all times. It never gets as slow unplayable 3 FPS would be, but again: I am not sure how this map works on other PCs in Polymer, sorry again! Some other outdoor areas should slow you down as well - at least it does to me, but as said before: it's all decently playable here. If anyone knows what causes those lags and how to fix them I would happy to learn and possibly fix them in order to increase performance. Thank you everyone!

[Telee]

Played most of the map, in the police station and completely out of ammo at this point, taking a break and will explore the map again scrounging for ammo so I can complete it. Tried to take the mini-battlelords on with a pistol which didn't go well lol. I was running around the map for quite a while before finding the police station with the shrinker/expander which didn't help with the ammo situation, and I never found the freezeray, just nothing but ammo for it. Hopefully I can find it.

The rest of the map is quite solid, echoing Morgensen's thoughts - some really good spritework and fun secret areas to explore. Some specific areas like the sewer seemed quite basic by comparison though, guessing that's where you ran out of walls. Lighting is a bit dark in some areas like the police station making combat difficult when paired with the transparent enemies.

As for Polymer it does result in slowdown, but even on a beefy PC it runs like ass if there's a lot of walls. Here I noticed that the blue keycard slot only renders in Polymer, oddly? Luckily I read the .txt file and knew to run it in Polymer, but I wonder if there are players that might not catch that and not know how to complete the level.

[unedukecated]

Telee, on 03 July 2026 - 01:33 PM, said:

Played most of the map, in the police station and completely out of ammo at this point, taking a break and will explore the map again scrounging for ammo so I can complete it. Tried to take the mini-battlelords on with a pistol which didn't go well lol. I was running around the map for quite a while before finding the police station with the shrinker/expander which didn't help with the ammo situation, and I never found the freezeray, just nothing but ammo for it. Hopefully I can find it.

The rest of the map is quite solid, echoing Morgensen's thoughts - some really good spritework and fun secret areas to explore. Some specific areas like the sewer seemed quite basic by comparison though, guessing that's where you ran out of walls. Lighting is a bit dark in some areas like the police station making combat difficult when paired with the transparent enemies.

As for Polymer it does result in slowdown, but even on a beefy PC it runs like ass if there's a lot of walls. Here I noticed that the blue keycard slot only renders in Polymer, oddly? Luckily I read the .txt file and knew to run it in Polymer, but I wonder if there are players that might not catch that and not know how to complete the level.

Thanks for playing! You shouldn't go into the police station without at least a decent amount of ammo for each weapon or with only a very few weapons in total. Hence the sign "check weapons at door" which is actually a hint. Same goes for the other item right in front of the station. It's pretty easy to take care of Battle Lords once you have the shrinker in case you didn't know, just takes good aiming not to waste ammo, you only have 10 shots (but lot of expander ammo everywhere as compensation). The freezer is tough to get but not impossible, follow these cryptic steps: find it, know how to get to it, get it! Anyway, sorry to hear that! Ammo should be plenty once you reach certain spots in every direction from the start.

Yes, the sewer (among other areas) looks very basic and blocky. I wish I had more sprites but I set a maximum limit of 15.000 to use and used like 14.700 after all I think. Lighting should never be too dark, but yes, some enemies are hard to see. Find and use night vision goggles which are scattered around the map multiple times to identify enemies much better. I am sorry to hear that it takes a powerful machine to run this map. this confirms my fear and I apologize once more. I am not sure what you mean with the blue keycard slot though? The whole map is intended to be played in Polymer renderer only right from the start. And I am aware of a visual glitch at the Bluegoof blue keycard slot if viewed from a certain spot, but since it only appears from afar it's not a big deal to be worry about so I didn't retouch that thing again. Also: if you play this map with any other renderer than the suggested Polymer it will be darker and perhaps even too dark and sometimes maybe even unbearably dark since the Polymer lights won't work then.

[ck3D]

unedukecated, on 03 July 2026 - 09:05 PM, said:

You shouldn't go into the police station without at least a decent amount of ammo for each weapon or with only a very few weapons in total. Hence the sign "check weapons at door" which is actually a hint

That is pretty funny and cool. I typically use that sign at the entrance of buildings/security stations etc... but just associate it with a small ammo or gun cache somewhere in the wall, and it is supposed to be the counter where visitors would have checked their weapons in or whatever. But what you're doing is subversion and it turns out it works just as well as a logical evolution of the original idea, and I have to commend just seeing the pun/double entendre on 'check'. It reminds me of that one moment in my own map Poison Heart where Duke has to jump on top of a whiteboard to reach a vent and once he steps onto the sector goes 'I think I'll climb a board (/aboard)'.

[pepsodent]

I been running around random areas for 20 minutes with no direction just shooting through hundreds of enemies. Did the map had to be this big? Some areas had solid effort put into them and could work on their own. I'd like to hear the thought process behind making this

[ck3D]

pepsodent, on 10 July 2026 - 09:39 AM, said:

I been running around random areas for 20 minutes with no direction just shooting through hundreds of enemies. Did the map had to be this big? Some areas had solid effort put into them and could work on their own. I'd like to hear the thought process behind making this

A bit silly perhaps and most definitely potential TMI but a couple times I've been wondering whether maybe unedukecated would have a mapping background already and just using a different editor e.g.. DooM. Some of their design choices (for me) make a lot more sense once you imagine they do and thus progress into Build from a bit of a biased angle before realizing the fortes and weaknesses of various possible design choices for this specific game along time (spoiler alert: one never stops learning). But maybe it really is they just so happen to have this kind of approach to 3D level design naturally.

Can't even preview the map as intended so take this from a million miles away perspective but when a level has the issues that you felt, usually can be alleviated with better signposting or color coded use of lights, maybe extra cameras if one moment is a bit quirky, etc. Essentially means it is a traversal/readability problem, in the case of a Polymer map (any Polymer map) maybe means more visual distraction around too if lots of lights in which case can just make some even stronger points of focus than those (e.g.. give distant lit-up facades fullbright values so they can be seen from distance if that area is important, ...).

[unedukecated]

@ Peps: the answer to your question is a "yes". There is not much of a story, it's like my first map: explore and action. You have no direction? Read the very first viewscreen again. There is only one "mission briefing". The rest should be pretty self-explanatory once you reach certain areas.

@ ck3d: I did design some tracks for racing games and stuff before but I have never released anything to the public until I did with these Duke maps. And I have zero clue about Doom mapping because never tried. Build / Mapster32 is all I can do now.

Screenshots with Polymer (the way it's meant to be played ) and in Polymost for comparison:

















By the way, there is a tagging error I made: there are 16 secret areas, not 18. Once you find the super secret you can find the other "secrets" as well there. Sorry!

[pepsodent]

unedukecated, on 12 July 2026 - 10:50 AM, said:

@ Peps: the answer to your question is a "yes". There is not much of a story, it's like my first map: explore and action. You have no direction? Read the very first viewscreen again. There is only one "mission briefing". The rest should be pretty self-explanatory once you reach certain areas.

So this is the 'make your own fun' type of a map. See this is a problem, because after 20 minutes of stumbling around I got tired of it and just left. The map doesnt need a story to make me engage with it, it needs a good layout that nudges me into wherever you want me to go. A small dialogue telling me where to go (which I forgot 5 minutes after reading it because again, the map is too big and there's too many enemies) is just not enough to make me interested. Its not a great design to make a map and then tell me to skip it because you know yourself that its too open and big.
I havent played your first one but seeing that you somewhat figured out mapster means that you can do better! Trim down the fat, put more effort into something smaller rather than making empty areas on every corner, I know you can do it because there's already glimpses of it here. This will also help with Polymer since that renderer is nasty and laggy piece of shit. A good layout is the most important. Dont make it open, fake the opendness of it. Connect the areas, add loopbacks and shortcuts. I also highly recommend to turn down enemy count, this is not doom where 600 enemies is normal occurrence, it gets tiring fast.
I'll be looking forward for your next one. Also thanks for mentioning me in readme, happy to see that my works inspired someone

[Telee]

Polymer can look great (as evidenced by those screenshot comparisons) but I'm not really sure how best to approach it, didn't Plagman abandon it years ago? Even with tighter indoor spaces if you want to cram in details it will cause slowdown. I thought about designing around it for my upcoming Duke Caribbean mod because it solves visual issues with TROR but it actually made my airplane map unplayable because of the wall count on screen at once. And I have a very good PC that I built in February 2025, so it's not a hardware issue.

I still need to go back and finish this, I played it on my old gaming laptop at my family's place over 4th of July weekend so I don't have the save file right now I didn't really have issues getting lost luckily, but I generally agree that large open-world style maps are very tricky to make and require proper signage and coloring to subliminally direct the player (I think ck3D has mentioned this before). The original Duke3D mappers experimented with this approach and ended up cutting levels down significantly, see L6 from Lameduke.

[unedukecated]

pepsodent, on 12 July 2026 - 12:09 PM, said:

So this is the 'make your own fun' type of a map. See this is a problem, because after 20 minutes of stumbling around I got tired of it and just left. The map doesnt need a story to make me engage with it, it needs a good layout that nudges me into wherever you want me to go. A small dialogue telling me where to go (which I forgot 5 minutes after reading it because again, the map is too big and there's too many enemies) is just not enough to make me interested. Its not a great design to make a map and then tell me to skip it because you know yourself that its too open and big.
I havent played your first one but seeing that you somewhat figured out mapster means that you can do better! Trim down the fat, put more effort into something smaller rather than making empty areas on every corner, I know you can do it because there's already glimpses of it here. This will also help with Polymer since that renderer is nasty and laggy piece of shit. A good layout is the most important. Dont make it open, fake the opendness of it. Connect the areas, add loopbacks and shortcuts. I also highly recommend to turn down enemy count, this is not doom where 600 enemies is normal occurrence, it gets tiring fast.
I'll be looking forward for your next one. Also thanks for mentioning me in readme, happy to see that my works inspired someone

It seems like you completely ignored the concepts of openness and exploring, sorry to hear you got bored and left. The map doesn't need a good layout that nudges you wherever I want you to go. Yeah, and I really haven't put enough effort into the map, I just was out of resources and rather wanted to release this map instead of deleting it because it took me hundreds of hours to actually built it. And yeah, I could spend months to fix this but I just don't want to now. It would be too much work. Can you understand? So as mentioned elsewhere I have learned the lesson and use walls/sprites ratio more wisely now, not building everything out of sectors first like I did all the time before. I also don't understand all the hate to Polymer. Whatever, I see you are just another high ranking member of the mapping police. "Level must have loopbacks and shortcuts, and a good layout above all. If that's not the case, it's not a good map!" Oh dear...


@ Telee: I have no idea about Plagman, not even knowing who it is. Polymer can look fantasic in most maps, actually not just "can" but it really does. Right now I am going to back to Polymost to make a map being accessible for everyone again, so I am also playing everying in Polymost now. Sorry to hear that it ruined you airplane maps performance. With Polymer on in "BOOM! Operator" I only have a few slowdowns and only in certain larger outdoor areas. But still very good playable. Slowdowns are certainly due to the engine is overwhelmed by drawing lots of sectors or how to say it. Anyway, good luck and have fun finishing it!

[ck3D]

Thanks for sharing about your background with race track making, was interesting to hear since that was my original background too, first baby steps of mine into 'level design' were an abundance of custom tracks for Stunt Driver (MS-DOS), coinciding with a couple of years of BASIC programming (absolute hobbyist) then ultimately landed onto Build mapping which felt a bit like a mix of both worlds. Took me a while to realize it kind of is and at the same time mostly is its own one-off beast. Re: more recent racer communities (even though it's not really a racer, especially given the lengths people go when it comes to modding it) one of my good friends has some humble notoriety in the Trials Fusion community scene for his custom tracks, am mentioning that just in case that would have been something you've done. Creatively speaking may be the most effervescent community I've witnessed (at the time) since Build, and the flexibility is a big similarity,

Honestly as apparent as it is that you like Polymer, based on the screenshots you've posted, from a classic/Polymost... user perspective the non-Polymer shots do not look that bad at all. Map could pass off as a Polymost map I think (just darker, and obviously wouldn't be the intended experience), and to work in classic would just need some adjustments to address the occasional, benign instances of 'modern renderer syndrome' (such as 2-sided sprites that should be one-sided and whatnot). If you indeed like Polymer this much, there is no reason why you shouldn't stick to it but it wouldn't be much work at all to study the important elements that downright break in classic/Polymost vs. Polymer and just incorporate that compatibility specifics knowledge into the makings of your next maps so that you can make levels that are optimized for Polymer but do not break in anyway in the other renderers. (Again you already are this close)

From what I've seen in the editor, not even trying to play the level (yet) I can see pepso's point. I think you really need to deconstruct the paranoia that there is a mapping police out there trying to get you, honestly it is nearly tempting to troll you with it except I am not that type of person, but some others online might. What is happening is you're receiving advice you are not ready to understand as helpful yet is all. Reread it as you may want until you realize, none of the feedback you ever got ever was aggressive or even inconsiderate over effort spent, just expressions of considerations that are out of your (current) scope (and justifiably so if not interested) if all you're trying is make D3D maps that mostly play, or look, or are good, etc... to yourself, that just means you're trying to communicate what 'fun' is to you. Sometimes that take may be biased and so it is healthy to always question yourself whether or not you are in touch and know what you're doing, and it is a strength not a weakness to accept having completely slept on one or several aspect(s) of Level Design™ for one or even multiple maps because that means next time you will be even more knowledgeable about how you communicate what you want. If something doesn't look or sound 'nice' to you doesn't mean it is not nice, it still remains feedback from people taking time out of their valuable day to share it with you after they've taken even more time just playing the level. That is why sincere feedback is invaluable and one always should be grateful (and then know bullshit when it does exist and they are sure to see it). If you are not sure how to take it and it comes from an experienced community member really should just relegate in your mind as something from a different timeline that might make sense later or might not ever in which case whatever. Would save you a lot of unnecessary stress.

What pepso is describing is something I personally refer to as the Super Mario 64 approach. As in, for an entire generation growing up on that generation of games (no idea whether that is your case) an idea has forged from the clash in scale and scope with former standards (say the jump from 8-, 16-bit directly to N64 for Nintendo kids) about 'open world' and how it should be, probably disregarding a lot of the fundamentals that made SM64 design work and just taking the formula of big open space as granted and valid to apply to anything (Nintendo themselves later played along with BoTW, etc.). Personally I think it is fine to make 'make your own fun' maps, those are nothing new and moreover can coexist with more traditional levels as counterpoints to the formula in order to remind players that there are pros but also cons for accepting that type of design. But I get it and you should too, this will lead to players in the moment always wondering what's in control and what is not. Every creative risk comes at a cost and that is no one's fault but it is up to you whose criticism you consider as valid and qualititative or not depending on (sincere) intent. One of my most respected mappers is Perro Seco, they have made Duke 2070 - big sprawling city map - lots of people at the time hated it and yet that doesn't take away from its qualities over time (but also from its flaws - people will remember those too). (Let alone the timeless merits of Beerzity, Biglight, etc.)

If you're just making maps for fun and don't give a hoot about level design as a science then more power to you. If I were you I wouldn't sleep on it though, ultimately it will help you articulate what you want, not get in the way. Every newly released map is not just a personal accomplishment, but also a giant step ahead for the maker and that is no fault, it in fact is the most correct.

[pepsodent]

unedukecated, on 13 July 2026 - 09:58 AM, said:

It seems like you completely ignored the concepts of openness and exploring, sorry to hear you got bored and left. The map doesn't need a good layout that nudges you wherever I want you to go. Yeah, and I really haven't put enough effort into the map, I just was out of resources and rather wanted to release this map instead of deleting it because it took me hundreds of hours to actually built it. And yeah, I could spend months to fix this but I just don't want to now. It would be too much work. Can you understand? So as mentioned elsewhere I have learned the lesson and use walls/sprites ratio more wisely now, not building everything out of sectors first like I did all the time before. I also don't understand all the hate to Polymer. Whatever, I see you are just another high ranking member of the mapping police. "Level must have loopbacks and shortcuts, and a good layout above all. If that's not the case, it's not a good map!" Oh dear...

I give you some feedback and you call me back a mapping gestapo. I'm far from one, but next time I can give you much more honest opinion without holding back.

[Telee]

My impression is that pepsodent didn't really enjoy the map at all, so I can understand the disappointment / defensiveness. If I get any scathing reviews for Caribbean 2 when it comes out it'll probably be tough for me to swallow considering I've spent probably a couple thousand hours on it to this point (or at least that's how it feels lol). Pepsodent did try to offer encouragement though so I don't think his advice was ill-intentioned.

Loopbacks and shortcuts are definitely valuable for a well-constructed map. A lot of my time has just been spent staring at my editor looking for ways to cut and re-arrange areas for a more cohesive flow, imagining myself as a player, like a puzzle. Sometimes even deleting or massively redesigning entire areas that just aren't working. Decorating stuff is easy by comparison.

unedukecated, on 13 July 2026 - 09:58 AM, said:

@ Telee: I have no idea about Plagman, not even knowing who it is. Polymer can look fantasic in most maps, actually not just "can" but it really does. Right now I am going to back to Polymost to make a map being accessible for everyone again, so I am also playing everying in Polymost now. Sorry to hear that it ruined you airplane maps performance. With Polymer on in "BOOM! Operator" I only have a few slowdowns and only in certain larger outdoor areas. But still very good playable. Slowdowns are certainly due to the engine is overwhelmed by drawing lots of sectors or how to say it. Anyway, good luck and have fun finishing it!

Plagman is the guy who wrote the Polymer renderer, but it's pretty much unfinished with performance issues. Your map might perform fine on my primary PC, I was just playing it on a laptop that's a bit dated so I was switching back and forth to Polymost in some of the outdoor areas where slowdown was common (which sounds like you experienced also). That's how I noticed the blue keycard slot wasn't appearing on Polymost. I would agree to stick to Polymost first since it's probably the most supported and most common way that people play nowadays.

Anyway regardless of if people like your map or not, I say learn from the criticisms while also being proud of making and releasing something (which most people will never do especially with mapster32 which is a hard editor to learn), and don't take it all too seriously. We're all just hobbyists enjoying creating content for one of our favorite games, there's a lot more important things in life.

Hopefully Mikko picks this one up and provides a review on his site for another perspective. The Legend of Devon recently streamed a large city map with many enemies called Anarxiticalcity that is similar and he seemed to not like it at all, meanwhile it got a 93 on MSDN, so what works for some won't work for others.

[todd2]

I already had put uneducated on ignore because of previous posts similar to their #15 above - but I did try the map anyways. It got boring fast (edit: relatively - the enclosed portion was fairly interesting to the immediate left of the starting point, then once in the open I gave up caring) and I'm a big fan of open maps that are fun to explore. I was hopeful this was going to be an open minded, aspiring future quality mapper, but oh well. Not gonna get help from people and improve themselves by being dismissive and combative.

Just my .000002, take it for what it's worth and what it cost me to type in (and to wait for the server to accept, argh..)

[ck3D]

Telee, on 13 July 2026 - 02:24 PM, said:

The Legend of Devon recently streamed a large city map with many enemies called Anarxiticalcity that is similar and he seemed to not like it at all, meanwhile it got a 93 on MSDN, so what works for some won't work for others.

Anarxiticalcity is one of my favorite maps (I even threw a comparison in this very thread earlier), I was who recommended it for Devon to stream and I swear I was genuinely expecting he would like it, the navigation in that map is not so bad (for instance as much as I am appreciating TamDuke for what it is, progress is 5x more confusing to the point where it can feel like a troll or dev path at times), it is pretty crazy how technically it is DOS-sized, and to me it basically is the epitome of the D3D user map of the 90's (although it was made much later, so I suspect the style is intentional), it's such a patchwork of 3DR influences meeting grander architecture and scale, and hitting shovelware notes at the same time. But that seemed to totally miss TLOD, felt like the aesthetics were actively putting him off more so than anything, fair. I seemed to remember he actually quite liked Duke 2070 which in my opinion is closer to TamDuke type of headscratcher in terms of progression so was surprised he seemed to like this less, but I also get it, Duke 2070 has eye-candy everywhere. But to me solid, original sector structure (which Duke 2070 also has) and layout that flows, and/or is self-aware of when it doesn't/why, beats sprite detail any day. Like it's been said just decoration is the easiest thing to do in the editor (granted it is fun), yeah your screenshots will look cool, sure, to the gullible, and that is nothing unless it is backing something up. The game/medium you are working with isn't static frames unless one effectively is a poser.

[unedukecated]

@ ck3d: I really do appreciate your fast help, thoughts, suggestions about all the technical stuff and all but I also have a "problem" with you believing to know how my mind works. Lines like: "What is happening is you're receiving advice you are not ready to understand as helpful yet is all." - don't tell me what I am thinking because you don't know. Are you a professional couch doctor? I doubt it, and even if you are it just doesn't work the way you think it does so please stop it. Wasn't the first time.

@ Peps: Dude, you cannot compare an innocent term like "mapping police" with the Gestapo. But good to know your opinion was dishonest.

@ Telee: Oh I see, yeah, some sprites are invisible in Polymost until you press them, Polymost was never tested since this is a Polymer map and all sprites should be there and working in Polymer of course. I have played Anarxiticalcity now and remembered it from many years ago when I first played it. Not sure if it's a good sample for comparison but okay.

[ck3D]

No, it is just you legitimately are this easy to read and should stop embarrassing yourself with posts like those unless you are in this for the kicks of getting parasocial attention and not to make interesting D3D levels.

You are the one defending your illusion of self-worth and openly confusing it with confidence post after post for the public to consume. Does not take having studied psychology, psychiatry or neuroscience for the reader to see patterns in your online persona that you clearly don't see yet but will later and be embarrassed about since that's how humans work. What are you doing? Just keep focused. I'll be leaving you alone.

[Aleks]

I have played the map over the past two evening, it took a total of almost 3 hours for me to complete and I'm fairly sure I have explored everywhere. There were some cool ideas and things I liked about the map. I think it was the first map I have played which really utilised the Polymer lights to the fullest (and I indulged myself and turned on the dynamic shadows and what not), which looked nice - however, the whole map still felt a bit too dark, which made the openness work against the map really. Some details were neat and the silly little jokes ("hehehe, what a mess" near the mess hall door, "check weapons at door" and I'm sure there was one or two more like that). The general layout felt very 1990ish, but with the expanded Eduke resources. I don't think it's a bad thing at all, however, in this case the progression felt extremely confusing and the "exploring" bit was ruined by some things I will explain later. In general, I will be honest - I appreciate the ambition behind the level and the effort put, but it is not a good map - but I think it could easily be at least much better by several fairly simple fixes, but it did feel like you abandoned it towards the end and just tried to push the product as finished, which is also understandable, but made the whole experience kinda meh...

I'll start with gameplay - the resources are extremely scarce up to some point, and a lot of "exploring" just punishes Duke by getting him swarmed with a horde of monsters and having to waste what little ammo he has, then rewarding him with something silly like two small medkits and a lone chaingun ammo. There is fairly a lot of freezer, RPG and devastator ammo, but freezer is only available fairly late on, with a single RPG following even later and the only devastator literally at the point where you will have no more use for it (there are also dummy RPG and devastator in what I believe is an unreachable place). Now this could have potentially worked, but not when you throw 700+ monsters (regardless of difficulty setting it seems), a lot of these being bullet-spongy newbeasts or octabrains. Some of the battlelord placements are genuinely puzzling - the first one in the police station was one of the coolest gameplay things because you basically had to avoid him and explore around his placement bearing that in mind. But then there's the second one that is just standing there - guarding a couple of useless items and inaccessible doors. I'm glad you pointed the player towards the shrinker location (expander ammo was a life-saver throughout the map), but it only had few shots and definitely not enough to deal with all the battlelords. RPG and devastator ammo kinda suggested there will be a weapon with them, but nope. Now the extremely heavy number of enemies simply feels like a cheap way of length-padding the level. Another "beginner mistake" that could easily have been avoided was seemingly random use of stayput enemies - I'd say it's a crime to put stayput octabrains or new beasts, which are both enemies that only really work when they can chase and get close to you, otherwise, they are (barely) moving target practices and bullet sponges. Same goes for some of the battlelords. Luckily, most of the commanders were very mobile.

Regarding the design, I can clearly see which areas where built towards the beginning of the map (i.e. when you had more resources), as they are much more detailed. On the other hand, there're a lot of basically empty, large rooms (again, there's a pointless room with a battlelord and two tanks that rewards you with an armor and I think one or two low-tier ammo packs). I appreciate making a lot of different accessible buildings and the whole map feeling like a large, "open" city where you can almost get lost (it's nice - I liked that, especially at the beginning), but then the lack of any detail to make the buildings more distinguishable and rewards for exploring kinda kill the fun.

Now I remember you mentioning running out of resources - but having taken a look at the map, I have seen some terrible mapping practices in place there! You make some technically solid, "structural" walls with sprites - why?! It's fine for roofs if you want to get above and underneath them (and you are applying that just fine in some places, e.g. around the IMF building), but for walls it will just eat through your sprites unnecessarilly. On the other hand, there are some walls that could have been just left as white walls, yet you turn them into a sector and make them red, meaning you waste 2x more walls on the same type of structure (as they span between the floor and ceiling anyway). I would say there is much optimisation that could be applied and really in your next map, you should just bear these things in mind - they will make the mapping both a lot faster and won't eat through your resources that fast.

I've found 15/18 secrets, but it appears that the last three are inaccessible - I know they are in one of the teleporters, but even checking in Mapster, it looks like turning off the forcefield is broken. By the way, the teleport company thing and the "police" teleporters were a nice touch of storytelling in game, too bad it was kinda cut short with the joke of San Holo in the station... Having the teleporters on the street working would make traversing the map a lot faster and more convenient, and you basically had a justification for it already nicely placed within your plot!

The highlights of the map for me were the police station, teleporter, IMF building, cinema and general "all-over-the-place", chaotic yet realistic city layout, even with the large walls bounding the area it didn't feel contained, which is neat. Jetpack opening up another dimension of the level was another nice touch. On the other hand, some empty, underdetailed rooms or lazier texture choices/lack of trimming on very large walls (the last building) could have been improved. And of course, all the gameplay stuff - this mostly drags the level down. I still think this is an improvement over 7G HUB, though.

[unedukecated]

Aleks, on 02 August 2026 - 04:24 AM, said:

I have played the map over the past two evening, it took a total of almost 3 hours for me to complete and I'm fairly sure I have explored everywhere. There were some cool ideas and things I liked about the map. I think it was the first map I have played which really utilised the Polymer lights to the fullest (and I indulged myself and turned on the dynamic shadows and what not), which looked nice - however, the whole map still felt a bit too dark, which made the openness work against the map really. Some details were neat and the silly little jokes ("hehehe, what a mess" near the mess hall door, "check weapons at door" and I'm sure there was one or two more like that). The general layout felt very 1990ish, but with the expanded Eduke resources. I don't think it's a bad thing at all, however, in this case the progression felt extremely confusing and the "exploring" bit was ruined by some things I will explain later. In general, I will be honest - I appreciate the ambition behind the level and the effort put, but it is not a good map - but I think it could easily be at least much better by several fairly simple fixes, but it did feel like you abandoned it towards the end and just tried to push the product as finished, which is also understandable, but made the whole experience kinda meh...

I'll start with gameplay - the resources are extremely scarce up to some point, and a lot of "exploring" just punishes Duke by getting him swarmed with a horde of monsters and having to waste what little ammo he has, then rewarding him with something silly like two small medkits and a lone chaingun ammo. There is fairly a lot of freezer, RPG and devastator ammo, but freezer is only available fairly late on, with a single RPG following even later and the only devastator literally at the point where you will have no more use for it (there are also dummy RPG and devastator in what I believe is an unreachable place). Now this could have potentially worked, but not when you throw 700+ monsters (regardless of difficulty setting it seems), a lot of these being bullet-spongy newbeasts or octabrains. Some of the battlelord placements are genuinely puzzling - the first one in the police station was one of the coolest gameplay things because you basically had to avoid him and explore around his placement bearing that in mind. But then there's the second one that is just standing there - guarding a couple of useless items and inaccessible doors. I'm glad you pointed the player towards the shrinker location (expander ammo was a life-saver throughout the map), but it only had few shots and definitely not enough to deal with all the battlelords. RPG and devastator ammo kinda suggested there will be a weapon with them, but nope. Now the extremely heavy number of enemies simply feels like a cheap way of length-padding the level. Another "beginner mistake" that could easily have been avoided was seemingly random use of stayput enemies - I'd say it's a crime to put stayput octabrains or new beasts, which are both enemies that only really work when they can chase and get close to you, otherwise, they are (barely) moving target practices and bullet sponges. Same goes for some of the battlelords. Luckily, most of the commanders were very mobile.

Regarding the design, I can clearly see which areas where built towards the beginning of the map (i.e. when you had more resources), as they are much more detailed. On the other hand, there're a lot of basically empty, large rooms (again, there's a pointless room with a battlelord and two tanks that rewards you with an armor and I think one or two low-tier ammo packs). I appreciate making a lot of different accessible buildings and the whole map feeling like a large, "open" city where you can almost get lost (it's nice - I liked that, especially at the beginning), but then the lack of any detail to make the buildings more distinguishable and rewards for exploring kinda kill the fun.

Now I remember you mentioning running out of resources - but having taken a look at the map, I have seen some terrible mapping practices in place there! You make some technically solid, "structural" walls with sprites - why?! It's fine for roofs if you want to get above and underneath them (and you are applying that just fine in some places, e.g. around the IMF building), but for walls it will just eat through your sprites unnecessarilly. On the other hand, there are some walls that could have been just left as white walls, yet you turn them into a sector and make them red, meaning you waste 2x more walls on the same type of structure (as they span between the floor and ceiling anyway). I would say there is much optimisation that could be applied and really in your next map, you should just bear these things in mind - they will make the mapping both a lot faster and won't eat through your resources that fast.

I've found 15/18 secrets, but it appears that the last three are inaccessible - I know they are in one of the teleporters, but even checking in Mapster, it looks like turning off the forcefield is broken. By the way, the teleport company thing and the "police" teleporters were a nice touch of storytelling in game, too bad it was kinda cut short with the joke of San Holo in the station... Having the teleporters on the street working would make traversing the map a lot faster and more convenient, and you basically had a justification for it already nicely placed within your plot!

The highlights of the map for me were the police station, teleporter, IMF building, cinema and general "all-over-the-place", chaotic yet realistic city layout, even with the large walls bounding the area it didn't feel contained, which is neat. Jetpack opening up another dimension of the level was another nice touch. On the other hand, some empty, underdetailed rooms or lazier texture choices/lack of trimming on very large walls (the last building) could have been improved. And of course, all the gameplay stuff - this mostly drags the level down. I still think this is an improvement over 7G HUB, though.

Thanks Aleks. You're right about:

-polymer lights, I couldn't find any vanilla map which uses Polymer lights excessively except "Hogwash" by Captain (Jack) Massive. If someone can name more vanilla maps with lots of Polymer lights: please let me know. Thanks!

-general darkness, but that's the intention due to map takes place at night but then you also have Polymer lights almost everywhere - at least indoors. Outdoors there are brighter spots sourced by moonlight. Polymer should be a bit brighter than Polymost in general, I have played the entire map in Polymost meaning no Polymer lights at all even though Polymost or classic renderers were never considered anyway for this map. Feel free to crank up brightness and/or visibility in Eduke32 since it is the only port this map was made for. When I play older vanilla maps in Polymost now I also have to crank up brightness to 105% due to some maps/areas are just too dark. Currently working on map #3 and having the plan to use some different shading style where only parts will have shadows of really dark values like 24, usually 16 or lower only. At the moment everything is still at 0 and I'm still thinking of general layout for map #3, did a big break in July because out of ideas and tired of building after "BOOM! Operator" went to be really time consuming. I also promise to use a more wiser walls/sprite ratio, and building solid walls better instead of making sectors.

-map not being a good map, I know of progession can be tricky but that's part of the exploration. So it shouldn't be that confusing as you said. Once you reach certain spots, getting new hints or similar it should be pretty obvious then. It's also clear that quite many areas are lifeless and/or empty, completely lacking "war ambient" sounds (numbers 231-232-233-234) everywhere. I could invest months of fixing all this but that would be as excessive as remaking it from zero, due to my editing skills are very limited and I'm too lazy and tired of editing once an area is actually "finished". Also out of resources for editing, I would need to delete details from detailed areas to add them to empty ones which would be very time consuming so I decided not to do and release the map as is. My ambitions were just too big, to really finish it I would easily need another 16.000 walls.

-difficult beginning, it's true but that was also intended. To make this map a bit more of a challenge, instead of rushing into new areas like Rambo would do. Also in contrast to other way too easy maps where you get all weapons and full ammo way too early and never have ammo problems. So rushing in is indeed punished by strong enemies and perhaps no ammo/health in sight. The key is the be careful in certain new areas, observing what's happening and react then - not just running through. But this depends on where you go from the start. The IMF is heavily guarded so it's not a good option to explore there first even though it's very tempting I have to admit. It's not impossible though, just tough. Ammo and health are scattered around almost everywhere, even if there is less or no combat in some more calm areas. Indoors it's often a good idea to look up and find more sources of health/ammo behind ceiling vents/grates that will drop down once you shoot the barriers holding them as it is in the police station for example. Or exploring ceiling vents made out of sprites. Or pressing "use" on vending machines will often spill out items like health, armor. Some don't of course, indicated by some beep sound. There's a total of 6 Duke Burger jolly meal containers which all reveal atomic health after you destroy its container. I didn't like to simply place obvious, glowing atomic health, so I decided to use more jolly meal containers instead.

-walls usage/layout/sprite walls, as mentioned before I was out of walls so I built walls out of sprites. The layout was intended to have more verticality in general outdoors but it's mostly flat and one and the same floor Z there which bothers me.

-weapons, the freezer is indeed hard to get and only accessible with a jetpack (or cheating). If you know where it is it's a good idea to get it as soon as you have the jetpack to receive more firepower. RPG and Devastator in one room are just decorations, another tease like the Devastator behind a see-through gate door in map "7G HUB". But they are both available later. Combat is meant to be more of challenge, instead of blasting through hordes of enemies with RPG/Devastator. At least there should be lots of option to take cover if you're facing strong enemies with weaker weapons only.

-improvement over "7G HUB" map, thanks. As for me there is only one direction: it only can get better, I am not Pepsodent who released an amazing work with his very first map "Weather Report". But I also don't want to spend years to learn and make such kind of maps, I rather want to release 2 maps with lower quality instead of 1 with superb quality. Why? Because this community needs more maps. Call me silly, but this is how I feel. Sorry! I am just too lazy to learn from viewing maps in Mapster, I rather learn by trial and error, and ask for help if I am stuck with (usually simple) problems. At least I am not stealing stuff from others as some mappers did from other mappers lol

Now where you are wrong:
-secrets 16-18, there are actually "only" 16 secrets. The "super secret" is #16 if you will and I made a mistake not removing secret area tags in its entry and exit teleporters = secrets 17+18. The forcefield can't be turned off, the way to reach the missing secret is different and there is a hint on how to get there "somewhere" nearby. Maybe I will make a YouTube walkthrough video including all secrets.
-cinema, there is no cinema. "La La Land" is supposed to be an event building for concerts and similar but whatever, minor mistake. If I ever build a cinema it'll be pretty obvious using the "million dollar" and babe movie poster textures and all.
-plot, there is no story at all. Some stuff like San Holo are just little jokes, not supporting any kind of story. Duke simply has to reach his birthday party as stated in the very first viewscreen briefing.

Anyway, thanks a lot once again Aleks. I really like your "Submachine" map, even tho that one keycard puzzle is a real PITA.