[Maarten]

RELEASE: ANOTHER ATTACK PART 3: Down The Upstairs

AAP3 continues exactly where AAP2 stopped. So that means exploring even more of this big world!
This time even more rough nature: lots of underground & a mysterious unknown world which you will discover.

DOWNLOAD HERE: https://we.tl/t-k2wVwxDwPJ
SECOND LINK: https://taw.duke4.ne...theUpstairs.zip

Be quick @ wetransfer, because the site has only 3 days ;-)
After this I hope you'll find this map on sites like MSDN etc.!

Have fun!!

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[Merlijn]

Awesome, congrats with the release! I have played the beta and will soon play the final version. Almost needless to say, it's an awesome map and a worthy follow-up to the previous entries.
Will share more detailled thoughts once I've played the final version.

[zykov eddy]

Can you please use something else to upload the file?

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[quakis]

Here's an alt download link for now: https://taw.duke4.ne...theUpstairs.zip

[ck3D]

The map is fantastic, I would like to say my favorite entry out of the whole (thus far) trilogy but in reality it's very hard to compare all three maps as I feel like each single one of them does completely different things, yet they perfectly complement one another, all the while remaining firmly anchored into the Maar10 style. I too will post more thoughts once I have played the final version. Congrats on releasing it, I am very glad you finished it.

[Dr.Panico]

Sweet map! Took me 51 minutes.

Very wild and action-packed. The underground city section in particular is very breath-taking. I was half-expecting a crossover with Shaky Grounds, with maybe bits and pieces of Emmerichville showing up underground, but I understand having these two series doing each one their own thing.

Navigating in the dark caves was pretty difficult and a little confusing - especially on the green area, where not even NVG can help you much. But the level does pickup spectacularly afterwards.

I still missed 4 secrets, so of course a replay is on the schedule. Meanwhile, I'm looking forward for AAP4!!!

[Mike Norvak]

Wow, this looks gorgeous and magical the gameplay surely must be a ride!

[lllllllllllllll]

Took 1hr 8 minutes only found 1 secret.
I like train tracks.
The cablecar turned my stomach and then "using" it turned my stomach again.
On that part I chose to stay and got overwhelmed by troopers.
Nice map.

A few times I was circling the cave area figuring out where to go next but it was my own fault mistakenly marking off spots I hadn't yet explored. So no complaints.

[Maarten]

Really happy to see all the comments in just 20 hours! Thanks!! And thanks Quakis for the link! I actually wanted to upload it, but my file was too big this time around. It's in the first post now

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it's very hard to compare all three maps as I feel like each single one of them does completely different things

That's exactly what I was going for! I never like to repeat too much. Also, I always wanted to make some E1L5-like parts for Duke. Same goes for the cablecar, it almost made AAP2 actually, but instead I choose to make a farm+golf part there back in the day.
Great to know you like this map even more!

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Navigating in the dark caves was pretty difficult and a little confusing - especially on the green area, where not even NVG can help you much. But the level does pickup spectacularly afterwards.

Hmmm, I never was aware these part(s) could be hard. I'm happy I got some beta reports about it, it was even harder/less clear. Still, it was also my plan to go a more "puzzle" direction this time around after so much action @ AAP2 and the very start of this map.
Glad you enjoyed the map!

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Wow, this looks gorgeous and magical the gameplay surely must be a ride!

Really happy to read this!

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Took 1hr 8 minutes only found 1 secret.
I like train tracks.

Thanks! Glad to hear, this train track idea was in my mind quite some time. The new Mapster sprite-tricks made it even more close to what I wanted to reach with it.

About the 6 secrets: some of them are vissible when looking around. Some of them are really hidden. The more hidden it is, the more rewarding it will be.
Actually, you can get de devestator(s) or shrinker/expander on more early stages
That's the only "tip" I give for now.

Thanks again peepz, and for those who are going to play: have fun!!

[Merlijn]

Here are my stats after playing the final version on CGS:


Great map overall! I like how each map is different from the last one, yet it feels like part of the same world. It helps that we can still see the bell tower from map 1 in the background and that this map picks up exactly where the last one ended. Really makes the whole thing come together.

This one is a wild ride indeed, if I should describe it with one word it would be "hostile". Not only due to some tough fights but the environment feels straight up unfriendly to humans and seems to wants to kill you in any possible way. If there's not projectiles coming out of the walls, it's the darkness or the deadly chasms you have to traverse over. And this is a positive in my book, it makes the map stand out and keeps you on edge throughout the whole journey.

The final stretch is really the highlight, gotta love the strange underground city in this huge cavern. I also like how we never get an explanation. Who built it? Who dwells or dwelled here? We'll never know for sure. There's something Lovecraftian about it (there's a short story from Lovecraft called "The Mound" and it has a very similar vibe to this map - it's also about a secret underground world that should not be entered by mortal humans). The last fight is super intense, I won't spoil it here but it really puts you to the test.

In that light I also enjoy the hot start, it sets the tone perfectly. The dark cavern system is a fun environmental puzzle and serves as a bit of a break before things get really intense again. This part also reminded me a bit of "The Unknown Planet". Great usage of pals and dramatic lightning adds to the atmosphere. Also love the warnings about the severe storm coming your way, with the sky getting darker and darker throughout the map. Can't wait for part 4!

[Aleks]

Still haven't played the final version, but I'm glad to see it released and there wasn't much stuff to report in the beta - the map was absolutely awesome. Felt very adventurous and exploration based, but at the same time really fast paced with some of the best verticality I've seen yet and an atmosphere that just can overwhelm. And agree with someone above mentioning the breathtaking moments, which worked really cool here - even if the screenshots kinda teased what is yet to come! The puzzles were fun throughout and nothing that would be frustrating. I didn't find any secrets during the beta, so there's that challenge ahead as well. Gameplay felt very nicely balanced throughout!

[ck3D]

MSDN link: https://msdn.duke4.n...theupstairs.php

[Maarten]

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The final stretch is really the highlight, gotta love the strange underground city in this huge cavern. I also like how we never get an explanation. Who built it? Who dwells or dwelled here? We'll never know for sure. There's something Lovecraftian about it (there's a short story from Lovecraft called "The Mound" and it has a very similar vibe to this map - it's also about a secret underground world that should not be entered by mortal humans).

First of all: thanks!! Also for lots of beta testing, except the last months

I always wanted to make something like this, so this is great to read! Actually...the map & "attack" tricks (no spoilers) all got along the way when making the map. But the sinister part was always there, which I also really loved about the original E1L5.
I don't know 'The Mound' - at least the name doesn't ring a bell right now. But reminding names isn't my thing anyway

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Felt very adventurous and exploration based, but at the same time really fast paced with some of the best verticality I've seen yet and an atmosphere that just can overwhelm. And agree with someone above mentioning the breathtaking moments, which worked really cool here

Thanks man! Reading all these comments from excellent mappers is a very nice thing to see! And yeah.. I like maps to be adventurous..I wasn't going for "super special effects", but still aiming for a special gaming experience which you don't see too much (but still clear enough to make your way) So I'm glad to read this!

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MSDN link: https://msdn.duke4.n...theupstairs.php

Thanks for posting this! I'm really satisfied with it Also happy to see he got the clear Minas Tirith reference Couldn't resist to make it a bit oblivious.

[Merlijn]

Maarten, on 30 December 2025 - 12:49 PM, said:

I don't know 'The Mound' - at least the name doesn't ring a bell right now. But reminding names isn't my thing anyway

It's not a well known story, and as far as I know never translated to film. So this is probably the first time you heard about it.
But it does feature a huge underground cavern with a subterranean city. Unfortunately the inhabitants aren't very friendly to humans

Congrats with the review! And yeah the Minas Tirith reference is awesome

[Maarten]

Thanks! Yeah I had to add the Minas Tirith thing
And...someday I really need to read more books to know this kind of stuff

--------------------------

I just found this live stream video, I'll watch it myself later. But here it is, by The Legend Of Devon / Boomershooters:
https://www.youtube....ive/IpF6WDYW54A

[Dynamo128]

Finally got around to playing this. Overall, an excellent map, although I have somewhat mixed feelings on the very start with those flying turrets, but the map really picks up once you are in the cave, both in terms of atmosphere and creativity. The stakes also keep increasing and this has a bit more of a sinister/horror slant than the previous entries. Overall though, I think I liked the first two more, but this is still exceptional and I hope to see Another Attack 4 in the not too distant future. Thank you very much for making this and sharing it with us!

[NNC]

I decided to play this map after playing Woudrichem (missed the second one so far, I should try it later). While that one didn't click me with it's eclectic texturing and typically usermappy elements, this one was much more interesting. Genuinely loved some places like the cable car or the mine cart tracks in the dark city. In fact, I actually liked most things about this map, the aesthetics were gorgeous, and the whole place was genuinely creepy. I think the idea of a very slowly pulsating area (like that green room early on) with darkness and brightness is so original, I don't think I have ever seen that one. The map is also very focused on monsters (although I thought tanks and enforcers don't belong), and didn't have the issue of "bad" textures like Woudrichem (apart from the weird pinball texture used as a chimney).

One critical error is that one of the five switches that open the ramps needs a hidden switch to use which I only found after cheating and like 15 minutes of wandering. That hidden switch needs to be replaced IMHO, and marking the five opening switches somehow should have been useful for navigation. Also the map had only one NVG, while it certainly needs at least 3 (and not in secrets). They help navigation a lot, both in the early part and later on. I used up mine (which was also found in the later hub), so I had to navigate in the dark a couple of times.

Also a bug report. While the idea of having areas from the previous maps are cool, I think you should have removed ammo, enemies, respawns, cameras, etc. from them. There are totally random enemies there, and a couple of oddball octabrains are circling around early on which don't seem to be part of the playable level.

[ck3D]

NNC, on 09 January 2026 - 05:33 PM, said:

I decided to play this map after playing Woudrichem (missed the second one so far, I should try it later). While that one didn't click me with it's eclectic texturing and typically usermappy elements, this one was much more interesting. Genuinely loved some places like the cable car or the mine cart tracks in the dark city. In fact, I actually liked most things about this map, the aesthetics were gorgeous, and the whole place was genuinely creepy. I think the idea of a very slowly pulsating area (like that green room early on) with darkness and brightness is so original, I don't think I have ever seen that one. The map is also very focused on monsters (although I thought tanks and enforcers don't belong), and didn't have the issue of "bad" textures like Woudrichem (apart from the weird pinball texture used as a chimney).

One critical error is that one of the five switches that open the ramps needs a hidden switch to use which I only found after cheating and like 15 minutes of wandering. That hidden switch needs to be replaced IMHO, and marking the five opening switches somehow should have been useful for navigation. Also the map had only one NVG, while it certainly needs at least 3 (and not in secrets). They help navigation a lot, both in the early part and later on. I used up mine (which was also found in the later hub), so I had to navigate in the dark a couple of times.

Also a bug report. While the idea of having areas from the previous maps are cool, I think you should have removed ammo, enemies, respawns, cameras, etc. from them. There are totally random enemies there, and a couple of oddball octabrains are circling around early on which don't seem to be part of the playable level.

I think you might enjoy the second one too if you ever feel like giving it a try. The one thing you probably will find user mappy about it might be how keycards are used, but in the context of how the progression functions it works, they do separate the map into sections and convey the message in a way what a map that scale needs (I just tend to think there always can be less artificial ways to block access to areas than keycards, but sometimes you do want them as a symbol). AA1 is sandbox, AA2 is more traditionally fragmented, and AA3 a bit of a 50/50 mix between 1 and 2. AA2 also has some memorable sceneries and moments that will stay with you and are worth experiencing. Very artisanal map sure but that is all the more beauty about it when executed so well.

[NNC]

ck3D, on 10 January 2026 - 02:08 AM, said:

I think you might enjoy the second one too if you ever feel like giving it a try. The one thing you probably will find user mappy about it might be how keycards are used, but in the context of how the progression functions it works, they do separate the map into sections and convey the message in a way what a map that scale needs (I just tend to think there always can be less artificial ways to block access to areas than keycards, but sometimes you do want them as a symbol). AA1 is sandbox, AA2 is more traditionally fragmented, and AA3 a bit of a 50/50 mix between 1 and 2. AA2 also has some memorable sceneries and moments that will stay with you and are worth experiencing. Very artisanal map sure but that is all the more beauty about it when executed so well.

I actually don't have problem with sandbox, because it can calibrate your goals. I actually liked the sandbox in AA3. The aspect of raising a ramp and spawn two newbeasts every time in a seemingly distant place (at least I found it pretty late on due to darkness), while those newbeasts appear at your back in seconds is a work of art.

It's just if we use darkness to this extent, NVG should be more frequent, because it's a big help in navigation, as well as marking the 5 switches or their openings somehow to avoid needless wandering. If I was Maarten, I would try the Romero trick he used in his Doom (if you guys play Doom) E1M4b map back then, when he used pulsating sector numbers on the floors. It's important, because technically the place had 3 distinct areas: a red, a green and a blue. The green area has two switches, which alone can result an issue for a player because the natural instinct of us is thinking every room has one (unless said markers are there), and there is a well hidden 5th switch not in the distinct 3 places (which opens the first ramp and has a very cool buildup with teeth and spit projectiles), it can be accessed only after finding a SECRET switch.

For reference, there was another similar switch much later on in the dark city, and that one was much easier to find and it actually just opens a secret area.

I think sandbox design should work this way. In AA1, it's much worse, because (despite the screens) everything is so busy and scattered, finding the various openings is a chore. But my issues with AA1 is not just that, but I actually didn't like the design as I said on Discord. While AA3 only used sprite/texture abuse very rarely (the only ugly stuff was that pinball texture chimney), AA1 is full of them. That map absolutely needed new art instead of existing ones that are out of place (and I'm not even talking about the cannons, which were clever, and reflect the existing city). Also the abundance of this is also distracting, the first key took me 10 minutes, until I found that one of the 30 fake doors, one in the ship has a 3rd dimension, and you can jump on it. It was just wrong IMHO.

EDIT: Grammar/elucidate

[ck3D]

You make a lot of sense, the NVG's in AA3 actually were my suggestion during beta, originally the map had none (all the funnier an oversight that the room where the player would use it the most - the green Cycler room with two switches - is the same colored tint as when Duke uses NVG's). Felt similar to back when AA1 beta had all the roofs blocked with invisible walls which stumped me to where I had to ask Maarten 'what are you thinking?', since so much good terrain obviously was there for open platforming and the player of course would try everything. But then with AA2 and now 3 felt like Maarten now understands he doesn't need to artificially control so much about player initiative (probably old habits from smaller maps in the DOS days), and that his sector terrain style is in many ways self-efficient.

I also suggested more things akin to the Romero trick you are describing, platforms that would light up when activated, Cyclers turning on, etc. which I don't think were ever added (going off TLOD's stream; I have yet to play the final version of the map). So at this point I feel like it's just Maarten's style to play tricks, for instance I too didn't get why one of the rooms broke the apparent pattern by having two switches, or why the path to the red lava room was so hidden (and then the room itself is a bit misleading in where it suggests Duke may jump), but I reckon that would be his liberty to not care so much, and leave it up to the player. That is including straight up not bothering learning most anything technical that would make his environments dynamic, but the pictures he paints although often static are so cool in their own right I am more than fine with it and glad Maarten out of all people is pushing that (he is excellent at it).

Sprite collages these days I tend to view as a cute remnant of an era where the editor wasn't so flexible and every texture or sprite with a square pattern was fine to turn into building windows, etc. - in a way it is 'outdated' in a context where sloped sprites, TROR, rotated textures allow for just as creative takes that look way cleaner, but as an exception I think it is pretty cool whenever someone (and especially an OG) still does it, almost like a tribute to 2000's mapping with its strengths and struggles.

What you are advocating for is an application of the Bauhaus principle that form should always follow function to level design and I am a huge proponent of it too, all the more so that it just makes complete sense in a virtual environment where everything runs on pure math to worry about efficiency first and then looks (and then the looks get to shine all the more, which is the catch many miss). That must be why it is so cool to me whenever someone happens to completely ignore what I regard as fundamentals (that it took myself dozens of maps to get) and yet comes up with poetry that works, I give it extra attention and respect.

[NNC]

ck3D, on 10 January 2026 - 05:54 AM, said:

You make a lot of sense, the NVG's in AA3 actually were my suggestion during beta, originally the map had none (all the funnier an oversight that the room where the player would use it the most - the green Cycler room with two switches - is the same colored tint as when Duke uses NVG's). Felt similar to back when AA1 beta had all the roofs blocked with invisible walls which stumped me to where I had to ask Maarten 'what are you thinking?', since so much good terrain obviously was there for open platforming and the player of course would try everything. But then with AA2 and now 3 felt like Maarten now understands he doesn't need to artificially control so much about player initiative (probably old habits from smaller maps in the DOS days), and that his sector terrain style is in many ways self-efficient.

I also suggested more things akin to the Romero trick you are describing, platforms that would light up when activated, Cyclers turning on, etc. which I don't think were ever added (going off TLOD's stream; I have yet to play the final version of the map). So at this point I feel like it's just Maarten's style to play tricks, for instance I too didn't get why one of the rooms broke the apparent pattern by having two switches, or why the path to the red lava room was so hidden (and then the room itself is a bit misleading in where it suggests Duke may jump), but I reckon that would be his liberty to not care so much, and leave it up to the player. That is including straight up not bothering learning most anything technical that would make his environments dynamic, but the pictures he paints although often static are so cool in their own right I am more than fine with it and glad Maarten out of all people is pushing that (he is excellent at it).

Sprite collages these days I tend to view as a cute remnant of an era where the editor wasn't so flexible and every texture or sprite with a square pattern was fine to turn into building windows, etc. - in a way it is 'outdated' in a context where sloped sprites, TROR, rotated textures allow for just as creative takes that look way cleaner, but as an exception I think it is pretty cool whenever someone (and especially an OG) still does it, almost like a tribute to 2000's mapping with its strengths and struggles.

What you are advocating for is an application of the Bauhaus principle that form should always follow function to level design and I am a huge proponent of it too, all the more so that it just makes complete sense in a virtual environment where everything runs on pure math to worry about efficiency first and then looks (and then the looks get to shine all the more, which is the catch many miss). That must be why it is so cool to me whenever someone happens to completely ignore what I regard as fundamentals (that it took myself dozens of maps to get) and yet comes up with poetry that works, I give it extra attention and respect.

I think the green room shouldn't be guided with night vision (in fact, it doesn't work there because of palette). It should be played with muscle memory. The level gets bright for like 6 seconds, then creepily dark for another 6. That is fucking brilliant and easily the best thing in the map (although the cable car and the mine carts came close). My knowledge about user maps are limited, haven't played stuff like AMC TC and many others, but I don't remember anything even close in Duke history. It's delightfully creepy and memorable, and advocates "pause and reflect" style of play very well. Night vision is much more important everywhere else, finding corridors and pathways through the map.

As for "bauhaus", partly yes, partly no. In terms of texturing and spritework, yes. In terms of enemy placement, yes. I actually loved one thing in AA1, and that was it's great use of reconcars. And then, when entered the main playground, the enemy placement got ecclectic sadly. AA3 have a great enemy placement, and due to it's theme (Duke stock textures from The Abyss work well in many situations), it had mostly great texturing as well.

However in terms of geometry, I'm supporting complexity, like strong 3D shapes, or a well formed layout with multiple layers. Simple layouts are actually part of many map's problems, and darkness/texture ornamentation are often there to hide that (not this map though). For example Boxes and Doors 1 packs 650 kB size (AA3 packs 805 kB) all for a 20 minute gameplay. That one has like 3 door types with very strict use including palette on them, and a few textures (massively different ones for secret places), so on paper, it looks simple, but the amount of geometrical details are gargantuan. I think that is more of the map type made for my liking. Or of course Allen Blum's style. He never overtextured his maps. Just look at the used one list of his (pressing V once), and compare that to the likes of Pitchford maps. Instead he used very complex layers, like the one in Fusion Station, Derelict, etc.

[ck3D]

You know, I don't think the Bauhaus designation is off line with the rest of your comment about complex geo and layout; the way I see it, that isn't mutually exclusive with function first, layout is the literal DNA of the map - as in, whatever design is carved into non-player space as tunnels and nests that exist - and so its entire point is to be original space of some sort that is explorable all the while (ideally) not being a repeat of a concept one has already played dozens of times. In that sense it is pure function that has to manifest into form yes, but really runs everything from flow in/through/around/out to whichever combination of dynamics one may use to evolve the terrain at run time. So I don't think good layout and structure/geo is form first, since it is the whole of the tangibility of the level, and defines it. It is function that only looks like form so that it can be a vehicle, and then whatever you use to decorate the space is the actual layer of form and distraction that may enhance or tarnish the blueprint depending on how wise the direction. Not unlike how I would imagine electronic chip, or circuit board design must be like (but I know nothing about it). Form first would be you obsess over making a 1996 video game 'realistic' at the expense of its codes and/or the unique possibilities the engine offers, not because it is what you genuinely want to do but because you legitimately do not know any better and think that is the way. Sometimes the mixed results one gets (the in-betweens they land on) are interesting if not downright fascinating in their own right, but relying on the same base layout concept would have worked all the better without the decorations a lot of the time. Presentation couldn't save a badly constructed level that would not even work if all tile 0, on the other hand it is best when wisely applied to structure that is (ding ding) functional.

That is one thing I really adore about Maarten's style which exactly is how he plays with not just the practicality but also the practicability of his maps, at this point figuring it out essentially is the game, for instance in AA3 the goal is clear from the get-go that the main thing you will have to overcome really is going to be the terrain and that usually isn't something I see people push so much (or in such cool ways). WG is someone else who does it to a degree, I would recommend you should check out his Abyss-themed episode: https://www.moddb.co...ds/wg-the-abyss in case you haven't.

[NNC]

Well I see your point, thanks for clarifying. Gawd, we are now deep into our brainfart conversation again in the art of mapping.

But I have to agree Maarten can know something, we talk a lot about his stuff, that's a sign of good, I guess. And I haven't even tried Weissensee and Unknown Planet yet.

One more thing I forgot to mention, that AA3 is prone to a lot of fall death and fall damage. I think it worked sometimes, but not always. In the opening area of bullet hell or the big rocket area late in the map (I reckon this one was optional for devastator), it can caused a lot of problems. It was mandatory to save a lot.

[Paul B]

This was a beast of a level. Unbelievable how much detail and the magnitude of this level just kept unfolding. It was quite the journey.

Here's another download location: https://www.dukemaps...n-the-upstairs/

Nice work!

[NNC]

In the meantime, I played Weissensee as well. It was a much more entertaining ride than Woodrichem (apart from two stuck moments, once I haven't noticed the vented pool, then I didn't find the yellow key in that weird looking beach), I still think it was plagued, particlarly the city segment with unnecessary sprite ornament (the camping had some clever stuff though like bowling, campfires and the lordi disco was hilarious). I also feel (maybe not correctly), that these kinds of maps appear two frequently. I mean these roads go surrounded by rock or green, enter a town with many small buildings, and let's explore them type. The best segment was the cave, the blue crystal part was a winner, like every time such thing appear. Probably I'm not a big enough fan of city/village style I guess.

If I use the MSDN rating system, I would give AA1 a score of 86, AA2 a score of 90 and AA3 a score of 95.

[ck3D]

NNC, on 11 January 2026 - 01:47 AM, said:

In the meantime, I played Weissensee as well. It was a much more entertaining ride than Woodrichem (apart from two stuck moments, once I haven't noticed the vented pool, then I didn't find the yellow key in that weird looking beach), I still think it was plagued, particlarly the city segment with unnecessary sprite ornament (the camping had some clever stuff though like bowling, campfires and the lordi disco was hilarious). I also feel (maybe not correctly), that these kinds of maps appear two frequently. I mean these roads go surrounded by rock or green, enter a town with many small buildings, and let's explore them type. The best segment was the cave, the blue crystal part was a winner, like every time such thing appear. Probably I'm not a big enough fan of city/village style I guess.

If I use the MSDN rating system, I would give AA1 a score of 86, AA2 a score of 90 and AA3 a score of 95.

That is so cool you played the map. One thing I feel about Weissensee is the very beginning (camping site with pizza place; the D.J. O. Lordi also must be somewhere in the top 5 of my favorite Duke 3D 'outsider art' pieces, number one being Merlijn's 'The Battles - Abbey Roar' poster) feels super DooMish in a way that is hard to explain since the area involves SOS and platforming on the vertical axis, but the navigation around plenty of corners and having to figure out what really is a slightly convoluted way forward (to find keys, too) resembles the rat-in-a-maze experience/reward I generally associate to playing the first DooM games. I always thought it felt odd but fresh since Duke 3D maps typically do not play out like that, the upcoming progress always is rather explicit (and if you make a map where it isn't, then you'll be hearing about it) and it often is just extra candy to reveal more and more of the twisted automap honestly. It satisfies a curiosity that is stronger than the will to actually reach the ending, when DooM arguably has less to explore but more of the path feels like a mandatory riddle or puzzle. The player is asked to figure how to connect all of the dots the mapper peppered throughout and that will reveal the solution (like piecing together what the author's intent was and that ultimately what is satisfying), in Duke 3D (unless we are talking the specific levels that decide to have that type of tension) it is more common to see most, if not all dots as soon as map start but instead of barging through you really have more fun getting lost and pressing stuff to check on what is possible, also given all of the dimensions that can exist. That is why it feels extra cool when some E3 levels ultimately reveal that the exit button really was near the start all along, by extension. Level basically asks 'are you done having the zoomies yet?' all the while admitting to being one cheeky fucker. Whereas in DooM, showing the exit near the start is used to tantalize and frustrate the player (especially since/if they can't jump). It employs its rigidity as part of the gameplay, when Duke 3D just says 'fuck it, we don't need to do this' and gives you the jetpack.

Intriguing intro and then that map turns into different things several times in a row, my favorite bit too is the cave and also the minigolf is nice (and transitions with the cave like a smooth criminal). The platforming in that area is pretty creative, and I think there has been multiple 'Leonard's houses' in Maarten's maps now? In actuality Weissensee shows the most heritage from Maarten's old classics such as Maarten Desert or Toxi City (ship attack at the end being another similar trope those used that received an updated iteration two decades later, that's really cool). Last button quest reminds me of what I did around the last island in the first secret level of Blast Radius (the second French one), I understand why to some that would look like a cop out but sometimes an area really is designed in a way that this would be the best possible approach, the Easter egg hunt. The one in Weissensee I find doesn't outstay its welcome, there is a sense of build up towards something as you uncover the last bits of map and switches and progressively climb the tower, so it works on me. All in all that level sort of is composed as a succession of not just areas but different mini games; I can appreciate that approach on the same level as I can respect going for something more coherent since neither option is easy to execute well.

[Maarten]

Hey they folks - it's time for me to reply
I'm really happy to see so many posts/discussion going on, feels like the community is still alive and kicking This actually surprised me!

It's too much to reply on all the things, but I wanted to say THANK YOU all for playing and reacting on my map. I'll pick a few quotes to reply on:

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One critical error is that one of the five switches that open the ramps needs a hidden switch to use which I only found after cheating and like 15 minutes of wandering. That hidden switch needs to be replaced IMHO, and marking the five opening switches somehow should have been useful for navigation. Also the map had only one NVG, while it certainly needs at least 3 (and not in secrets). They help navigation a lot, both in the early part and later on. I used up mine (which was also found in the later hub), so I had to navigate in the dark a couple of times.

Heh, I see where you're coming from. I'm happy my beta testers did note some, because at that stage it was even harder to find all the switches and ways to go. I do realize the green room is the only one with 2 switches; I thought the room was too big for just 1, and I wanted 5 "steps".
At the same time. I didn't want things to be too logical if that makes sense. The whole thing needed to feel as a weird puzzle since te locations are quite fantasy itself
Also, really interesting to see the different views on the cycler effect!

About the darkness:
I think my monitor is just a tiny bit brighter then most of you, I'll keep it in mind for the future. I actually did build with my laptop on tv screen and haven't tested it myself on other ways (also because I wanted to release this damn thing after 4+ years). Like as ck3D said, the beta didn't even had a NVG. I just saw the map @ Merlijns laptop, and it seemed to feel just a tiny bit darker.
Still, the darkness it also a part of what I was aiming for as well.

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or why the path to the red lava room was so hidden (and then the room itself is a bit misleading in where it suggests Duke may jump), but I reckon that would be his liberty to not care so much, and leave it up to the player.

Actually, especially in the beta, I didn't realize some rooms where too hidden to find out, same goes for the texture-jump thing; I was just making the location a bit more interesting and didn't think much about "hee..maybe people will try to jump on it" actually! I'm happy you and Aleks did point it out so I could improve it a little bit and make things more clear. Still, the basics are the same, that's true.

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If I use the MSDN rating system, I would give AA1 a score of 86, AA2 a score of 90 and AA3 a score of 95.

I'm actually happy to see so many different opinions on the maps. It's really interesting and I see where you're coming from. Also, glad to see the 95 rating on AAP3, it feels rewarding after mapping so long on it

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Also a bug report. While the idea of having areas from the previous maps are cool, I think you should have removed ammo, enemies, respawns, cameras, etc. from them. There are totally random enemies there, and a couple of oddball octabrains are circling around early on which don't seem to be part of the playable level.

About the enemies @ unreachable parts: I did remove lots of aliens, but didn't delete the Weissensee respawns, which are also the same activation as the explossions which you hear at the start.
I didn't delete it because 1) mostly it's my own laziness 2) it was a quite last minute thing to use and insert since the options was already there 3) it doesn't seem to "catch" the enemy count (did finish the map with 0 enemies left). But yeah, I was too lazy too care and didn't expect people would check it really out. Boy, I was wrong - I've seen quite some replies on it by now

[ck3D]

Maarten, on 11 January 2026 - 04:33 AM, said:

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I didn't delete it because 1) mostly it's my own laziness 2) it was a quite last minute thing to use and insert since the options was already there 3) it doesn't seem to "catch" the enemy count (did finish the map with 0 enemies left). But yeah, I was too lazy too care and didn't expect people would check it really out. Boy, I was wrong - I've seen quite some replies on it by now

In case that can help in the future:

In 2D mode after loading the 'previous' map you will copy from:

' + F (on AZERTY keyboards that is %/ù + F)

Delete all sprites of tile #### <- use tilenum of anything you want, e.g.. RESPAWN, TOUCHPLATE, etc...

Repeat process until map is cleaned up, and then copy that retouched version.

Alternatively, can run quick sprite searches (by tag, etc...) by hovering over a sprite (any sprite) in 2D mode, then Alt + F8, input desired criteria, Enter to validate, Esc to pop out of menu layer and then [ and ] to browse through results (and possibly delete).

[Aleks]

Played the final version last night and it was still a blast, not much changes were noticable from the beta besides few polishings here and there, which is understandable since we didn't really report that much

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About the darkness:
I think my monitor is just a tiny bit brighter then most of you, I'll keep it in mind for the future. I actually did build with my laptop on tv screen and haven't tested it myself on other ways (also because I wanted to release this damn thing after 4+ years). Like as ck3D said, the beta didn't even had a NVG. I just saw the map @ Merlijns laptop, and it seemed to feel just a tiny bit darker.Still, the darkness it also a part of what I was aiming for as well.

I have played on a different laptop this time and the map - especially the underground city part - seemed MUCH brighter, to the point of me wondering at first if you have bulk-brightened the whole thing, but then realising it's just my settings. But it was still as atmospheric as before and I have to say I enjoyed it more this time since the navigation was much more convenient like that. I also sniped the Battlelord at the final plaza (where the 'regular' devastator can be found) with an RPG through a hole way before getting there, as the extra brightness allowed me to spot him...

This time I've spent some extra time looking for secrets, some of them felt quite obvious in retrospect (especially the extra brightness in the city helped with the ones located there), the most difficult one was probably the pipebombs/large medkit one, despite scourging the area visually all the way up before! Also, since Merlijn mentioned the switches, I had no problems locating the first two but then spent a lot of time trying to find any others in that area until I gave up and then realised they are in an entirely different place

Regarding the Weissensee spawns, it seemed like some troopers from there manage to crawl through the rocks at the beginning during the climb, which looks and works cool (unless these were intended new spawns), so not a big deal. The most obvious stuff like leftover ammo on firetruck that I've pointed have been removed.

My favourite part of the map was probably the final octabrain battle on the winding suspended bridges, this part plays so cool also with the rockets shooting from every direction and mostly helping than being annoying, especially if you can maneuver the octabrains to be in their path and keep moving constantly. The massive trooper attack at the beginning of the city part was probably the most challenging, as there're like 20+ of them and they can pack quite some damage.

I'd say this is my second-favourite map from the "trilogy" so far and going by the MSDN rating system, I'd give Wudrichem 98, Weissensee 95 and this one 97. I've talked a bit on Discord with NNC about them and I'm gonna die on the hill of defending Wudrichem. The "10 minute search for a single keycard" is actually one of the best things about it, it's legitimately a map where you can get lost, feels like a first day during a cool city break somewhere, where you just walk and try to navigate your way around without a map. This is a feeling I've often had back in 96ish when playing user maps, of course they were not as large (but also I was quite smaller...) that I've always enjoyed, trying to grasp the layout that feels just sprawling at first and taming it under your control, both meticulously clearing it of enemies and also seeing more and more familiar locations as you get accustomed.

Regarding this one, I wouldn't say that the switch to "spikes" corridor is "secret", in both playthroughs this was the first thing I have stumbled upon, the area where it is located is particularly resembling one room from The Abyss and it just screams there'd be something of interest there - also there's a small "hole" allowing to peek through to the other side which I thought was a door (I've also spent soem more time there thinking there could be a secret area later on until turning on the automap and seeing I've already been on the other side...).

[NNC]

I only checked the out of border stuff, because those random octabrains and commanders at the start appeared, so technically they count. I realized there were more. I still think you should delete them in an updated version.