[William Gee]

New map from me.
Requires Eduke32.

WG HOTEL HELL....
Have fun!

Attached File(s)

•  WGHOTELHELL.zip (223.4K)
  Number of downloads: 187

[Seb Luca]

Why not to add a little description, and one screenshot or two ?

[Mark]

I'm guessing with his reputation he doesn't need those.

[William Gee]

I like to share as little info as possible so the map is a complete surprise for the player. What you do know is the map is styled like Hotel Hell.

[Ninety-Six]

Seb Luca, on 31 May 2023 - 04:52 AM, said:

Why not to add a little description, and one screenshot or two ?

dont worry i got you covered:



it has textures

if that doesnt convince you i dont know what will

[Polunka]

Well, shit. I feel kinda embarassed but I'm stuck right at the freaking beginning. Basically I've got to the parking garage with a truck parked outside and two army cars inside. Have been looking for an hour but for the love of me can't find where to proceed.

Would you mind dropping a little spoiler for me, WG? At least the very next step I'm supposed to take after reaching the garage building?

Also, congrats on another (undoubtedly cool) release!

[Ninety-Six]

Polunka, on 31 May 2023 - 07:36 PM, said:

Well, shit. I feel kinda embarassed but I'm stuck right at the freaking beginning. Basically I've got to the parking garage with a truck parked outside and two army cars inside. Have been looking for an hour but for the love of me can't find where to proceed.

Would you mind dropping a little spoiler for me, WG? At least the very next step I'm supposed to take after reaching the garage building?

Also, congrats on another (undoubtedly cool) release!

Assuming you're in the place I think you are,

Spoiler

Look up through one of the holes in the ceiling. You should see three switches. Hitting these will turn off the force field.

[William Gee]

Thanks Polunka!

Spoiler

At the lazer fence, look up.

[Aleks]

Congrats on the release again, WG!

Polunka's question is interesting, I've mentioned this exact spot to William after my testing of the map, but instead of feeling confused, I praised him for the creative use of TROR for a fancy variation of the otherwise very regular DN3D puzzle. Still, I think it's a good one and a way to slowly teach the players out of their 20 years old habits and to start thinking in 3D!

[Maarten]

Great work of art you just released there, Mr. Gee!
It's fun, a lot of surprises, one of the best build ups I've seen in a Duke map (gameplay balance, but also visual). I agree about the first puzzle here with Aleks; it got me searching for about 5/10 minutes, but totally loved this puzzle how it's made.

I see you worked on the map a little since the beta, good to see!
Without too much spoilers, here is what I like the most:

-The fact you could enter EVERY room, mini-doors, water
-The restaurant
-The balcony with view felt really sunny
-The "5 part swimming pool"
-The very very last fight felt like a refreshing climax.

Go play this map peeps!!

[Merlijn]

Aleks, on 01 June 2023 - 08:03 AM, said:

Congrats on the release again, WG!

Polunka's question is interesting, I've mentioned this exact spot to William after my testing of the map, but instead of feeling confused, I praised him for the creative use of TROR for a fancy variation of the otherwise very regular DN3D puzzle. Still, I think it's a good one and a way to slowly teach the players out of their 20 years old habits and to start thinking in 3D!

Agreed with this, it's a great combi of TROR and a good ol' button puzzle. It took me a few moments as well, but I thought it was a nice creative puzzle!
I've only played the beta version so far, but the map is a lot of fun and I especially love how the player will slowly unlock each level and room of the hotel (and uses explosives to create even more alternative routes ).

[ck3D]

I have yet to play the map (and so many others I want to catch up on, WGCity 2 too) but in case you're curious, Seriouscacodemon streamed it using Legacy Edition last night: https://www.twitch.t...deos/1835178064 (level starts at 03:40:57), color palette looks pretty amazing like that. Didn't watch too much as to refrain from spoilers but the omnipresent TROR looks crazy, inside the hotel feels like the Cube movies, very impressive!

[William Gee]

That was very frustrating to watch him run past 2 big open double doors multiple times and not enter while looking for the correct way, why look at the doors but not enter but look everywhere eles in the map. AHHHHHHHH

He also doesn't open many small doors, and that kinda one of the fun things about the map.

Anyways at some point when I can be bothered I need to aim all of the toilets for the sake of voxils. ops.

Became fun to watch once he got to the red level...

As for your questions as whats next, that depends on what inspires/motivates me the most.
Ive always wanted to make a flood zone map using TROR for transparent water.
Also a "return to ice moon" map.

I do also have a space level that I started many months ago that needs to be finished, as well as all of my AA levels.

[William Gee]

Maarten, on 01 June 2023 - 10:51 AM, said:

Great work of art you just released there, Mr. Gee!
It's fun, a lot of surprises, one of the best build ups I've seen in a Duke map (gameplay balance, but also visual). I agree about the first puzzle here with Aleks; it got me searching for about 5/10 minutes, but totally loved this puzzle how it's made.

I see you worked on the map a little since the beta, good to see!
Without too much spoilers, here is what I like the most:

-The fact you could enter EVERY room, mini-doors, water
-The restaurant
-The balcony with view felt really sunny
-The "5 part swimming pool"
-The very very last fight felt like a refreshing climax.

Go play this map peeps!!

Thanks Maarten, I had to think how to make the rooms all diferent or interesting in different ways even though they would be the same room over and over, and what other rooms or areas in a hotel would be interesting.
I still get ideas for it but since it had used all the walls up there is no point in adding more.

I think its quite different for me, I find indoor maps more challenging to make.

[William Gee]

As for the TROR button puzzle, there has been 2 people so far who needed to ask what to do there, and more spend a bit of time before looking up.
And also 2 people got stuck in the firetruck before eventually jumping out.

[ck3D]

William Gee, on 02 June 2023 - 02:17 PM, said:

As for the TROR button puzzle, there has been 2 people so far who needed to ask what to do there, and more spend a bit of time before looking up.
And also 2 people got stuck in the firetruck before eventually jumping out.

From the few minutes I've watched of it I'd say that potentially confusing aspect actually seems like the forte of the level, that is what I meant by the Cube comment or in the streamer's chat commenting it looked like a fun orientation challenge, you have all those rectangular rooms stacked on top of one another with passageways every which direction and as a result you kind of get a Zelda dungeon, technically that is a feat in a 2.5D engine but also a rare take on Duke 3D gameplay. Players these days have a lot less patience for the games they jump into in general the moment the experience starts requiring actual involvment as to figure out a solution that is not explicitly handed to them but the real ones appreciate the personal challenge (and some might go as far as saying that is the entire point of gaming), and you need novelty in order to teach players new things they don't know they might like yet. I like it when maps dare try something, those always have the merit of feeding the ante a little.

[Ninety-Six]

William Gee, on 02 June 2023 - 02:17 PM, said:

As for the TROR button puzzle, there has been 2 people so far who needed to ask what to do there, and more spend a bit of time before looking up.

This was something Valve Software had to deal with when they were making Half-Life 2. The discovery that "players never look up."

[ck3D]

Ninety-Six, on 02 June 2023 - 10:42 PM, said:

This was something Valve Software had to deal with when they were making Half-Life 2. The discovery that "players never look up."

You know I used to kind of talk shit about players who never looked up, at the very least to myself. And then it happened, I missed my first ceiling button. And then again, I missed my second. One of those definitely was in a Gambini map. Since then I've learned humility and now only talk shit about players who confuse key card and lock colors when they insist for any longer than five seconds, but this time around I'm not fooling anyone, I know it will happen to me too.

[William Gee]

I tend to get lost or die in most maps so...
But I do get frustrated watching streams after they have finished cause you want to scream where to go.
Getting the balance right between learning new tricks and not pissing people of can be tricky, I just try to enjoy myself while mapping, I really dislike holding the players hand and generally just leave it up to them to work out whatever the puzzle is.

[Šneček]

Ninety-Six, on 31 May 2023 - 02:31 PM, said:

dont worry i got you covered:

duke0599.png

it has textures

if that doesnt convince you i dont know what will

according to the screenshot it's going to be very nice!

[DNSKILL5]

Wow, two hotel maps around the same time from WG and ck3d! Looking forward to playing this.

[ck3D]

Just completed the map, took me 56 minutes but I actually had to play in two sittings as my PC started overheating just around 45. Great one as expected, sewers and cliffs reminded me of WGCity a bit which itself reminded me I still need to play the sequel to that map, but now this one got me very much in the mood, so I'll try that one out next. Layout work was absolutely fantastic, not just technically speaking but the progression I thought really worked, I never got stuck but around the beginning where for a while I failed to locate the first blue key but that was fun searching around all the terrain and figuring out where it would be. (I had found and reached the balcony early and didn't see the key and so it took me a while to come back and realize it was indeed there, I assume it respawned after I entered the building correctly. Later I was similarly confused by a door in one of the rooms which seemed to trigger automatically and open late, but I wasn't sure of the trigger or what exactly happened, worked me for though, didn't waste time.)

I also really liked all the little tricks I saw in the monster placement with one calling the next, the 'compatibility' in the combos or the more seemingly anecdotal, but important things like the slimer drawing attention away from the tank, encouraging using the shrinker just prior to sudden Newbeasts or all the plays on the mirrors. Was on full if not Atomic health for the most part of my playthrough until the very end where I started struggling but could always go back to earlier places to try and retrieve loose medkits. Map was fairly generous (so generous, but fair) with ammo and the weapons were distributing in an interesting manner.

My favorite part about it I think is how just the first couple of unlocked rooms in, the logic clicks and the level just takes you around as you now trust it with that.

Was playing on CGS, apparently got all kills but only found one official secret, it had so much stuff in it though.

I found a handful of tiny bugs/minor issues:

https://i.imgur.com/Qi9sMmW.png
No idea if you can see this sprite that is buried well underground in Polymost but it exists and can be seen through the floor in classic.

https://i.imgur.com/hy5soLm.png
Wall around this rock seems blocked by mistake and so Duke can't jump over it from here.

https://i.imgur.com/wZyt7Uh.png
Switch clips the wall, I'd imagine not an issue in Polymost (?) but maybe looks weird as it's the only one I've seen that does that.

https://i.imgur.com/jpMbjO7.png
Floor pal of the alien sector is 14 and so the enemies keep flashing between normal palette and dark green, maybe it's for style.

I also took some screenshots of places and moments I liked a lot.

Website is forcing Imgur links onto me right now as the attachment upload feature is bugging out and so I'm posting direct links which I reckon should be fine in order to avoid spoilers (gotta really want it now).

https://i.imgur.com/x3oe8mu.png
https://i.imgur.com/bpY4Mws.png
https://i.imgur.com/oJWDU0Y.png
https://i.imgur.com/RmvTIMY.png liked the texturing so much in the bathrooms, I washed my hands
https://i.imgur.com/stNrsXe.png
https://i.imgur.com/bn7t3cq.png
https://i.imgur.com/BpAYNx8.png
https://i.imgur.com/IxELvFt.png I swear I might end up taking a similar screenshot at every Duke 3D piano
https://i.imgur.com/He9saAp.png
https://i.imgur.com/bfsoQqV.png
https://i.imgur.com/6MNbGwL.png btw not sure if one of those tripmine traps was meant to be particularly hard to avoid, but one (not this one) seemed almost impassable before I tried a bit harder
https://i.imgur.com/YD6Pchh.png
https://i.imgur.com/xumu4rK.png found the sweet spot

[William Gee]

Thanks for the comments CK, It takes me 25 mins to pass so I guessed it would take new players around 50 mins to pass.
This map is really my second attempt at a TROR hotel, the first was in WGCity2 that I felt I needed to make bigger better and take up a whole map so I map WGHotelhell.
Thanks for the bug reports, one day I might fix some of those bugs and a couple others, but that will be in the WGMEGA version that might be a part of the WGPandora episode along with WGCity2.
I also like the toilets being shiny and clean, the toilets are not aimed though so voxils all look the wrong way. this bathroom is based of the one I made in slick willy.
And yes the sewers are pretty much the same as WGCity sewers.

One thing I wish I had done was add a shinker/mirror puzzle, there are so many opportunity's for one. At least for a secret if not progression.

Also thanks for the screenshots they are fun to look at.

[ck3D]

Cool, re: the sewers I actually really liked them, wasn't a bad thing that they reminded me of WGCity I also loved them there. The new ones probably are cooler in fact, maybe narrower but the whole set-up works really well with the layout and ambient darkness. You did some really cool stuff with the lower visibility settings in the darkest parts of the map in general (it looked like), people including myself can be a bit scared of going there and actually increasing the fog, most just decrease it and so as a consequence every map that does the opposite feels fresh. But maybe I was imagining things and it's just default levels of fog in really dark places.

I don't know if you considered adding Cyclers to the sewers by the way, not necessarily strong ones that would ruin the mood, but light ones that only really serve for orientation purposes (e.g.. all the lights traveling in the same direction) might work unless you like how easy it is to get confused by the layout down there, which in its current state does a great job at preparing the player to a maze-like level and I reckon is a big part of the point. And so that would probably conflict with the design but I thought I would mention it since the existing structure as it's been built just looks perfect for Cycler work and I couldn't pretend not seeing that.

[ck3D]

MSDN review, congrats: https://msdn.duke4.n...wghotelhell.php

[William Gee]

My play through is up https://youtu.be/GgEgJzCQnrI

[Aleks]

I played the map last night, for the first time using the "proper" finished version and not the beta - and it was still a lot of fun, also during the 2 months since testing I forgot a lot about the progression so was still fresh Didn't seem like there's been many changes, this time I also spent my time to find all the secrets - the "double" secret took me the most to find, also I explored the roof of that small building on the opposite side of the street and was a bit disappointed there was nothing there. The fights are still super fun, I especially liked the moments when after something opens, there are 2-3 ways to proceed in different directions and each has its own wave of aliens, so you have to be quick and prioritise them or lure them around. The progression is clear, but at the same time it's quite easy to get a bit lost along the way with all the different rooms, but in a fun way. Great map, once again congrats on the release!

[William Gee]

Thanks Aleks, I have never jumped onto that building so I never thought of putting a secret there ops.
The only thing I would of liked to have done differently is made more levels, and that would mean less stuff on the first level of the Hotel.
One day I want to make a 10 level building, of cause that means less stuff in each level.

[ck3D]

Ten-level building would be crazy, like the two third of Duke Hard in just one map (WG Duke Hard!) I think you should do it. I don't think you'd have to worry about detail if the base structure itself is interesting enough to explore, built in a rather minimalistic, old school style I suspect actually would work really well, either way I hope you make it.

[ToiletDuck64]

A building with 10 floors could still have over 1600 walls/sprites (and over 400 sectors) per floor, so I think that's quite reasonably doable.
If it was 100 floors...then that would be awkward.