[Sanek]

I'm working on a brand new set of maps, where every enemy is a Battlelord!

I plan to make at least 8 new maps. I won't make the whole episode in a week like the first time, but considering the size and scope of the maps, I don't think it'll take 4 years to make lol.
I could just post new screenshots in the general WIP thread but I decided to make a dedicated one, since I want to gather all the comments, opinions and advices in one place. So, if you played the first episode and have any suggestions for a future installment - come right here!

So, what can I say about the the new episode?

FACTS:

1. While you still can find your pistol, shotgun and chaingun ammo across the map, there'll be much less of these, since many of you have complained that the game becomes tedious once you're out of projectiles. I agree!
2. Each secret place will be accessible throughout the level - I had some secrets in the first episode which you can't access after you pass the initial start location.
3. Unless I couldn't make 8 maps for some reason, I'm positive that I have enough will for at least 5!
4. I'll stick to 1.3D tileset only (the first episode didn't have any Atomic textures in case you didn't noticed).

DISCUSSION TOPICS:

1. Should you start each mission with only a pistol, or you'll carry weapons from a previous level? You can still finish each map with a pistol-start anyway.
2. Tripbombs - are these things effective enough? I make a huge emphasis on on tripbombs in this episode, but I don't how many of you guys use it. Personally, I switch between tripbombs and regular ammo all the time but who knows - maybe most of you hate tripbombs and use it as a last resort!
3. Should I change any damage settings?
4. In terms of layout - what kind of levels would like you to see? I make all my maps with a formula like "one central area with a mirrored corridors on the edges", but I always look for a new ways to make maps. If you can give me some ideas, I'd appreciate it!
5.. What do you think about NPC's running around? Imagine some space workers running scared, while giving you a second to find cover and also drop some useless (or crucial) shit in the process - like pistol ammo, 10hp cans or used armor. I need someone who can draw the guy (i,e, reskin the slaves from Blood) and also code it, though.
6. Any other ideas and suggestions that can help me enhance the BattleDuke eXperience..

REQUESTS:

1. If there's anyone who knows how to make Battlelord's pathfinding abilities better, I'll accept any help. Sure, I can make levels with vanilla AI in mind, but these guys gets so stupid it's ridiculous - instead of chasing you all around the map, you end hopping right in front of them, so they can leave the damn corner they stuck themselves in! So the best way to handle it is to make'em smarter via new code.
2. I need at least 2 testers. I assume that you're familiar with the original episode and can expect the same level of difficulty (i.e. you liked the stuff!).


Current progress (as of 28.02.2023):

Map #1 is DONE, Map #2 is complete layout and design-wise but the gameplay is missing, and just started working on Map #3.

Map #1 - Started it way back in May, actually, but dropped it for one reason or another. I returned to it only 2 weeks ago, added some shadows, gameplay elements and stuff and now I consider this map 100% complete (unless my testers would think otherwise hehe).
The location is junk yard here. See the screnshots below!

MAP #2 is some kind of a water processing plant. It's very small compared to map 1, but I think it's fine (the last shot is the start location of this map).

MAP #3 have the theme I'm very excited about, but I'll drop the shots when I feel confident about it.

That's about it. Stay tuned!

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 
• 
• 

[Sanek]

Finished Map #2 today. I'm on a roll!


This texture theme of this whole map was inspired by one single location from the original game. Can you see which one it is?
png]

[Ninety-Six]

Sanek, on 01 March 2023 - 02:53 PM, said:

This texture theme of this whole map was inspired by one single location from the original game. Can you see which one it is?

Gonna go with either the red room with all the enforcers in Tiberius Station, or the end of XXX-Stacy/start of Critical Mass.

[Sanek]

Ninety-Six, on 01 March 2023 - 10:43 PM, said:

Gonna go with either the red room with all the enforcers in Tiberius Station, or the end of XXX-Stacy/start of Critical Mass.

Nope!

This one will give you a better (perhaps too obvious) idea.

[Ninety-Six]

Oh, the end of Warp Factor!

[Sanek]

Map #3
itsgreen.mid is on
The sky is red.
(almost) Everything else is PAL 7.

Gameplay is a tricky part here, but visually I view this level as a highlight of the episode.

[Ninety-Six]

Reminds me of Oil Ocean.


So what becomes of the first batch? Are they being integrated in this new version in any way, or is this current project more of a separate sequel?

[William Gee]

Nice theme.

[Sanek]

Ninety-Six, on 03 March 2023 - 06:35 PM, said:

So what becomes of the first batch? Are they being integrated in this new version in any way, or is this current project more of a separate sequel?

I don't know yet. If weapons or AI of the enemy would be changed then I release it separately. Otherwise I have no problem with including the first episode.

@William Gee thanks!

[Merlijn]

Those map 3 shots are really neat!

As for your questions - Dukeplus has the option of improved monster AI, you could always ask Dan about it. But I'm not sure if it's neccesary, taking advantage of their stupid AI can also be part of the strategies of the player. I remember it helped a lot in the prison map of the first episode. I'd imagine that one would be a nightmare with improved AI.

As for level design, you can take a look at the feedback from players on the first episode. The third map (Woodstroid?) got the most positive reviews IIRC. I remember that one was really challenging but also very satisfying to beat. Basically you want to have the option of strategic thinking for the player. I think laying traps with tripmines and tripbombs are definitely part of that.

[Sanek]

Merlijn, on 04 March 2023 - 06:44 AM, said:

Those map 3 shots are really neat!

Merlijn, on 04 March 2023 - 06:44 AM, said:

As for your questions - Dukeplus has the option of improved monster AI, you could always ask Dan about it. But I'm not sure if it's neccesary, taking advantage of their stupid AI can also be part of the strategies of the player. I remember it helped a lot in the prison map of the first episode. I'd imagine that one would be a nightmare with improved AI.

Thanks for the suggestion! I enjoyed DukePlus, but the last time I launch it was like 8 years ago, mostly due to the lack of new maps that required DP.
Like, I don't need a bookworm-type lords; I just want some way prevent them from stucking.

Merlijn, on 04 March 2023 - 06:44 AM, said:

Those map 3 shots are really neat!

As for level design, you can take a look at the feedback from players on the first episode. The third map (Woodstroid?) got the most positive reviews IIRC. I remember that one was really challenging but also very satisfying to beat. Basically you want to have the option of strategic thinking for the player. I think laying traps with tripmines and tripbombs are definitely part of that.

Yeah, I read all the comments on the original; Mister Sinister had some really good suggestions btw.

[Sanek]

Just noticed that I kinda messed up with quotes in the previous post but i think you can figure it out.

Anyway, just finished Map #3 today; Didn't start the next one yet, but I have the idea for it already.

While I only have 3 maps in the can, I think I can use the testers' services already. Map #3 gameplay is not good atm imo, and I need some advices on how to make it better.

[Aleks]

Nice, I had a lot of fun (and probably the same amount of frustration ) in your BattleDuke episode, good to see you continuing it. Also, love the screenshots from map 3, really unique and good looking composition there, great job!

As for enhancing Battlelords' AI, I'd agree with Merlijn - knowing their behaviour is kinda part of the game IMO, so drastically changing it wouldn't be a good idea. They worked well in your original episode and you found some neat anti-stuck measures like slopes at some of the crates etc., the only problem is they're getting stuck (and well, also how they retreat after being shrunk and re-growing instead of attacking the player again), but other than that they still seem more "cooperative" than most monsters.

As for the tripbombs, I'd gladly use them, but the problem is how weak they are in single player. Maybe here's an idea to either just boost their damage or perhaps (if you wish to go deeper into coding) even change the way in which they actually damage the enemy (i.e. shooting some projectiles when the laser is crossed, so that the damage output might be greater, but requires more planning to be efficient).

[Ninety-Six]

Aleks, on 15 March 2023 - 11:53 AM, said:

even change the way in which they actually damage the enemy (i.e. shooting some projectiles when the laser is crossed, so that the damage output might be greater, but requires more planning to be efficient).

Alien Armageddon does it this way I think, and I think this would actually be a fantastic way to go about it. One of the problems with the basic tripmine, especially in the original BD, was that in order to maximize the damage the target has to walk really close to the mine itself. With the way enemy AI works in Duke, particularly in wider open spaces, that's always a bit of a gamble. You can sort of direct them a little bit, but there are limits. Having it shoot a projectile (like a rocket or something) would make them a lot more reliable. Perhaps the tradeoff could be that you can only hold on to one at a time or something?

[Aleks]

Ninety-Six, on 15 March 2023 - 12:12 PM, said:

Alien Armageddon does it this way I think, and I think this would actually be a fantastic way to go about it. One of the problems with the basic tripmine, especially in the original BD, was that in order to maximize the damage the target has to walk really close to the mine itself. With the way enemy AI works in Duke, particularly in wider open spaces, that's always a bit of a gamble. You can sort of direct them a little bit, but there are limits. Having it shoot a projectile (like a rocket or something) would make them a lot more reliable. Perhaps the tradeoff could be that you can only hold on to one at a time or something?

I think DN:WMD also had an alt-fire tripmine shooting a rocket from the wall-mounted cannon.

[Sanek]

Not much progress over the last three weeks. The fourth map was a tricky one to make due to the desgin decisions. I suppose it's going to be the low point of the episode...

Some might call it "poor" or "underdetailed". I call it "solid".

Can't decide what to do with the layout, finally made a simple square, minus the center. I think it turned out to be OK.


Once again, this whole map was inspired by the section from the original game. Can you see it?

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 
• 

[Sanek]

Map #5 is complete. It's a snow-themed map with some vent structures scattered around, aptly titled ''Freezing Fans''. It's a logical follow-up to the previous map.

It's the biggest map in the pack yet, mostly due to the amount of empty space. In terms of gameplay it's probably the worst. I dunno really, I feel like I'm starting to lose the grip with this map. Unless something clicks with the next one, I think I'll wrap things up with 7 maps, like with the first episode.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 
• 
• 

[Sanek]

Map #6 is finished.

I stuggle with new maps a bit lately. The layout is a classic loop here (like every other map in the pack), but the gameplay just keeps getting worse. I'm not happy with this one in terms of gameplay; it's just kinda meh to have such map at this point of the episode, but perhaps some of you will appreciate it, as it's easier than the previous levels, a "brether" kind of map.


The visuals in sixth map is some kind of a waterfalls...and colored balls that act like trees for some reason. Also some odd easter egg here.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 
• 
• 
• 

[Sanek]

After numerous attempts to make a ''regular'' 7th map, I decided to call it a day and make it a boss map. So once again we have 7 maps to play.

I'm looking for at least one, better two testers right now. I assume that you're familiar with original episode and you enoyed it for what it is.

Expected timeframe of release is end of this month.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 
• 

[Aleks]

Sanek, on 09 April 2023 - 06:32 AM, said:

After numerous attempts to make a ''regular'' 7th map, I decided to call it a day and make it a boss map. So once again we have 7 maps to play.
I'm looking for at least one, better two testers right now. I assume that you're familiar with original episode and you enoyed it for what it is.

Expected timeframe of release is end of this month.

Just an idea from looking at the thumbnails, but instead of leaving this as an abstract (?) general battleground, it probably could be easily turned into a graveyard (alien graveyard with huge gravestones maybe), how about that?

[Sanek]

Sounds like nice idea for a map, but i dunno if i have timre or will to add anything more.


Graves means more cover (which is not what i'm aiming for in a boss map) and graveyard is not fitting the brght sky imo.

[Sanek]

BattleDuke 2 coming next week.