[Luis EDF Marine]

Duke Nukem 64 has better Looking Levels, you can Save Babes new Ammo types for certain Weapons and a new Gun called Plasma Cannon, but just like doom 64 it Suffers from the Capacity of Nintendo 64 so it doesnt have music, the Assault Trooper and Assault Captain share the same sprite and some weapons are missing the controls kinda suck and the smg feels weak.

[Reaper_Man]

Saving the babes may be the single greatest addition to the gameplay, as it rewards exploration and gives the player a secondary objective. The different ammo types always seemed gimmicky to me and was the weakest of the new gameplay features. The new weapons, the grenade launcher and the plasma cannon, were really fun and interesting additions.

[DNSKILL5]

I agree with Reaper_Man about being able to save the babes being a great feature, though I think a better balance would have been save them to be rewarded but if they die it spawns in more aliens. That would have made saving them more of a challenge and there would have been a risk factor in them dying in the crossfire. As for the new weapons, I prefer the PC look of the weapons that were only reskinned in DN64, but don't mind the new weapons such as the grenade launcher and plasma cannon, though I feel DNZH made those weapons better than they were in DN64. I also think the censorship was hit or miss at times. Some of it didn't really make much of a difference until episode 2's maps. I also think they should have either made a new OST or format the PC soundtrack to work on the N64 hardware. I've heard they didn't add music because they didn't feel like it and not due to hardware limitations or ROM space, which is a shame because DNZH ended up having a unique OST. The multiplayer was a nice touch and the maps that were in this version specifically for DM are quite good "official" Dukematch maps. DN64 definitely outdid Doom 64 and Quake 64 when it comes to multiplayer, with the former not even having the feature and the latter having a really shitty 2P mode that is nearly unplayable. I think DNZH is a great sequel to DN64, and because DN64 is basically DN3D, I've always considered DNZH to be a sequel to DN3D.

[Gorilla]

DN64 is higher resolution than the original PC version.

I'm biased as it was my first version of Duke (in fact it was the first video game I ever loved as a little baby boy!), but I consider it the superior Duke 3d experience when it comes to the first 3 episodes. After that it's worth going back and playing The Birth and New World Order (iirc thats the name of the new expansion in world tour). I dont really mind the censorship, though I can see why it was such a big deal back in the day considering the nature of Duke's advertising and character (boobies, dude.)


If only it had music! But as a young chillun I supplemented that with Nirvana. The White Stripes, and Linkin Park

[MusicallyInspired]

The PC version could go up to at least 800x600 though if you had a VESA compatible card. (I want to say 1024x768 too but I'm less confident of that)

Love Duke64 though. It's great. Love the new replacement Duke lines actually. The map changes were very creative and interesting. I did enjoy the alternate ammo. Especially explosive shells.

[Phredreeke]

As MusicallyInspired said the PC version could run in higher resolution. Also a lot of DN64's textures were of significantly lower resolution than their PC counterparts, which may have been hidden by the forced on texture filtering on the console. One of the worst offenders is the Battlelord door texture



Still love the Duke64 version though as it actually brings something different to the original episodes.

[Aleks]

As someone who's only recently (a year or 2 ago) played DN64 for the first time (thanks to Rednukem abilities), I have to say I did enjoy the replaced guns and secondary ammo, also enjoyed saving the babes thing. However, the levels themselves - despite how they have some nice concepts in "connecting" them together - seemed like a large step down from the PC version, simply because it seems the guys/guy who worked on the additions wasn't as AHB and The Levelord - which means the stuff clashes a bit and probably even without knowing the original levels, it would be possible to tell most of the added areas apart. I did like some of them (Area 51 secret in Movie Set or the entirety of Rabid Transit), it just felt... Weird.

[Phredreeke]

I actually like the DN64 Rabid Transit better than the original

[OpenMaw]

Aleks, on 06 December 2022 - 04:23 PM, said:

As someone who's only recently (a year or 2 ago) played DN64 for the first time (thanks to Rednukem abilities), I have to say I did enjoy the replaced guns and secondary ammo, also enjoyed saving the babes thing. However, the levels themselves - despite how they have some nice concepts in "connecting" them together - seemed like a large step down from the PC version, simply because it seems the guys/guy who worked on the additions wasn't as AHB and The Levelord - which means the stuff clashes a bit and probably even without knowing the original levels, it would be possible to tell most of the added areas apart. I did like some of them (Area 51 secret in Movie Set or the entirety of Rabid Transit), it just felt... Weird.

I mean, maybe that's because of time. When I was growing up with basically both versions I didn't really see the additions as jarring.

If you've been playing Duke 3D for 26 years and then you go and play 64, I guess they would stick out because your muscle memory would be so atoned to the PC versions of the maps.


And yeah the 64 version of Rabid Transit is a little better in my view. I also always loved that addition of the minimart in Hollywood Holocaust.

[NNC]

The only remotely interesting idea in the map design is the connection of Red Light District and Rabid Transit. But as both levels are bastardized in other ways, even this can't be considered as a net positive change. The levels otherwise look terrible with the modifications, all the fem sprites have been replaced with other random things (yea, XXX is forbidden, but gore and death is okay), the movement is terrible, the new weapon, pickup sprites are terrible, the battlelord battle became awful with no RPG, and unlike many, I don't like the save babe feature. It looks dull, and removed some of the important gamplay elements, ie. explosions not generating monsters around. Also, no real dark atmosphere, no real dark skies, palette is off totally, and other dumb errors. A big fat NO from me.

[Reaper_Man]

While it was a shame the 2D skies were cut, the expanded sky areas, generously calling them "skyboxes", was one of my favorite visual additions. Connecting Red Light District with Rabid Transit was a great change as well, although it makes it seem like Duke leaves LA, goes to space, then comes back to LA a couple blocks over, which is kinda weird. The lack of music, again while disappointing, especially considering 64 has one of my favorite versions of Grabbag, the silence during gameplay gave the game an eerie and deserted feeling a lot more than the original.

[ck3D]

I was playing a lot of Duke 64 just around the time I was first starting out mapping for 3D. I think I like both equally albeit for different reasons, meaning that there are a few crucial things that prevent me from considering it an update to the game. Some of the level design alterations actually are a nice touch, you can tell whoever was in charge was really trying, I actually like all of the new extra bits, but also lament all the cuts, lack of an episode format, and miss the original content that's gone despite the additions (I can appreciate the bonus but am not sure it was worth the penalty that is losing some of the original artistry, although technically speaking that couldn't be avoided, hence the reason for the tweaks in the first place). Saving the babes was cool as it gave the player a glimpse of hope in an otherwise depressing (and semi-liminal, since mostly silent) settings, and also made for a new incentive for secret places, official or not, encouraging map exploration on a new layer. The new weapons I always thought are awesome and perhaps more fun than base Duke 3D's - the dum dum bullets or explosive shotgun shells are refreshing for 3D veterans (if you can find that rare ammo, thereby also once again encouraging exploration), but the grenade launcher I find to be the best, since 3D didn't have such a weapon based on rebounds and delayed explosions, in itself it allows for a brand new reinterpretation of the level design. Doesn't completely replace the Freezer (one of my favorite weapons in 3D) since while the mechanics are close, the effect and gimmick are different but fun in its own right. Generally speaking I like the Plasma Cannon and various gun reskins but once again find myself missing the originals. Feels like a rather even trade off as a whole, though. Addition of the 'skyboxes' adds depth parallaxed skies miss but also ruins the whole 'if I can see it, I can reach it' logic purists love to defend (but worked really well otherwise, especially on original N64 where it would match the classic hardware aesthetics). I always loved, loved, loved no music, to the point where going back to 3D felt off for a while; would also emphasize all the ambient sounds and solidify the general atmosphere of doom. Liked the new explosions (seeing sprite explosions again in fact is another thing that felt off for a bit in 3D after that), but thought the gigantic Cycloid 3D model, all the while impressive at the time, really looked more like a tech demo and so felt quite anticlimactic. Deathmatch was great - tons of memories, especially in the multiplayer-only exclusive, Shaft.

I would call this port a great effort altogether though. Always seemed like the developers involved had agreed to swim the extra mile to make sure the tone of the original would be respected as much as Nintendo and the 64 would allow, to me. Whether or not the changes are up to one's tastes, I find it's pretty obvious at the very least some passion went into that one. I think it was key to spreading 3D's popularity onto a whole generation of console players and so that would mean it was good enough for that.

[Phredreeke]

I dunno if it's correct to call them skyboxes when the geometry for the buildings is right there (assuming you mean beginning of Hollywood Holocaust and the end of LA Rumble and possibly others that I can't think of right now)

[Gorilla]

ck3D, on 07 December 2022 - 09:37 AM, said:

I always loved, loved, loved no music, to the point where going back to 3D felt off for a while; would also emphasize all the ambient sounds and solidify the general atmosphere of doom.

This is the first time I've seen someone other than my older brother mention this. I paraphrase him when I say this, "Duke 64 felt like you truly were humanity's last hope, and the lack of music emphasized the lonely atmosphere not to mention allowed you to hear the bone-chilling screams of women being captured." Adding onto this statement I feel the stressful, doom-filled atmosphere that is present when the music is gone also lends you to feel more attached to Duke as a character: he never shows fear in the face of total annihilation, and never forgets to do the right thing, and his wise-cracks serve to cut the tension in a very charming and fun way.

[Fox]

Phredreeke, on 07 December 2022 - 12:23 PM, said:

I dunno if it's correct to call them skyboxes when the geometry for the buildings is right there (assuming you mean beginning of Hollywood Holocaust and the end of LA Rumble and possibly others that I can't think of right now)

These are just extended off-limit areas, not skyboxes

They do improve the urban levels a lot, and show how much you can do with ridiculously simple geometry

It's also interesting how the maps look good on daytime, I guess it maps sense since they started like that as well

[Phredreeke]

Yes, hence why I think calling them skyboxes is misleading

[ck3D]

Gorilla, on 07 December 2022 - 12:51 PM, said:

This is the first time I've seen someone other than my older brother mention this. I paraphrase him when I say this, "Duke 64 felt like you truly were humanity's last hope, and the lack of music emphasized the lonely atmosphere not to mention allowed you to hear the bone-chilling screams of women being captured." Adding onto this statement I feel the stressful, doom-filled atmosphere that is present when the music is gone also lends you to feel more attached to Duke as a character: he never shows fear in the face of total annihilation, and never forgets to do the right thing, and his wise-cracks serve to cut the tension in a very charming and fun way.

We may be a minority (or just not the most vocal about that aspect of the silence), but we actually aren't alone on that boat; I've witnessed quite a few people describing the same effect on them, or directly backing that impression of mine in the past. In a sense, 64 really is a 'Duke 3D, but it's liminal spaces'. I'd go as far as the general desolation also boosts the impact of running into the babes to save - whenever you do, part of the reward mechanism is to make the player feel a little more hopeful and a little less alone, keeping pumping more fuel into their drive and actions as the game progresses, to an extent breaking (or punctuating) some of the tedium.

Re: 'skybox' term it is of course an abuse of language (but everyone who's been using that term has expressed reserves). How people are willing to use that shortcut though only means the effect was successful at carrying the intended feel of immersion (despite usually consisting in just a few simple, minimalistic sector constructions). This approach directly inspired the design of a lot of old, released maps of mine, one particularly observable trend being the pitch black building silhouettes in the Happy Hangover trilogy.

[Reaper_Man]

I mean I even said it was generous to call them skyboxes, AND I referred to them as expanded sky areas. Plus everyone knows exactly what I'm referring to. Not sure what the pedantry is about.

[randir14]

I played it when I was a kid, and even back then I thought it was just a half assed censored version of the PC game. The only thing I liked was the pistol replacement and the ability to save the women.

[oasiz]

Expanded areas are an interesting design choice probably enforced by technical limitations.
Having a while repeating sky would've requires quite a bit of texture memory vs. having extra geo done with already loaded assets as part of the level itself.
You'd think that more polygons would tax more than a texture, but the texture cache was extremely tiny on the n64.

Not only did it make the maps more realistic but you no longer had to load a rather large texture (probably 256x128 at least) to paint the background with. A gradient or a solid colour can be done with 3D primitives without any texture requirements.