Help
Duke4.net
DNF #1
Duke 3D #1
Dark Side, Derelict and Golden Carnage are the holy trinity of the Build Engine. If you think you can beat them with your levels, give up already! Levelord should have been close, if he properly finish Sewer, but he didn't.
Duke Map/Mod of the Month Club - October 2022 "Atomic Edition + World Tour"
#32 Posted 15 October 2022 - 10:29 AM
TheDragonLiner, on 14 October 2022 - 11:11 PM, said:
The Queen :
Final Level at last ! Interesting design and layout. I don't recall seeing anything like this, even in usermaps. Only downside being that the map looks like 1 half having been copied, pasted and mirrored with slight alterations to the colors and some level functionalities just for the sake of it. Maybe they were in a rush, a usual thing with ends of games.
Final Level at last ! Interesting design and layout. I don't recall seeing anything like this, even in usermaps. Only downside being that the map looks like 1 half having been copied, pasted and mirrored with slight alterations to the colors and some level functionalities just for the sake of it. Maybe they were in a rush, a usual thing with ends of games.
I'm pretty sure it's not rushing, but something done on purpose - these 2 areas serve as bases for green and brown teams in Duke-Tag, so it's reasonable that the layout is the same (well, besides the underwater puzzle).
Quote
Music works well as a final level music. And it being called "Departure" fits both the final level aspect and the music's tone IMO. Not really one of my faves though. One of the classic cases of musics I like in-game but not really out-game. AdLib treated it well IMO. I'm surprised at how Adlib didn't make any of the musics of Ep4 unbearable to my eyes like it usually does ...
I forgot to write about it while doing my post, but to me this is the best song in Atomic - super catchy and having this intense, pressure-building vibe. It always reminded me of something, but I could never pinpoint it to anything in particular, I've read Lee's post about it being inspired by some music from an old sci-fi show IIRC, but I didn't know that, so my connection had to be something completely different. Nevertheless, it's a great piece!
#33 Posted 15 October 2022 - 02:46 PM
E4L4 - Babe Land
My least favorite level in episode. Some details and stuff were done nice, but not my cup of tea. Still it has funny and challenging parts.
E4L4 on Damn I'm Good Video: https://files.fm/f/486cra6k5
My least favorite level in episode. Some details and stuff were done nice, but not my cup of tea. Still it has funny and challenging parts.
E4L4 on Damn I'm Good Video: https://files.fm/f/486cra6k5
#34 Posted 15 October 2022 - 11:25 PM
Aleks, gotta admit I never thought of the possibility of it being a MultiPlayer thing :/
Now onto Ep5. I'll be playing with BuildGDX because World Tour had some bullshit functionalities that impede my experience too much. Such as the Weapon Switching which is completely stupid for a PC game for instance >_< And F2 and F6 being exactly the same. Why bother then ?
On Skill 3 unfortunately, since GDX doesn't allow me to dnskill5 T_T
Introduction : Not much to say since this is only my second playthrough ever >_> I forgot to talk about the new weapon in the texts so I might as well talk about it here. Incinerator is a very good weapon as it is THE cost-effective weapon in the game, yes above the Shrinker because its projectiles don't clip through enemies. Surely it slows down gameplay a bit, but more enemies, you just shoot and forget. Only downside being that it's highly unsatisfying to use due to it having ZERO sound feedback
Also, the new Sky Textures, I wish they were less pixelated because some of them would look quite grand !
High Time :
It's become a trend to have tough beginnings after Ep1 ... Immediately, I'm liking what I'm seeing. Brand new textures everywhere and highly detailed environnement. Perhaps a bit too detailed because it makes enemies that aren't 6ft away kinda hard to notice. Also starting Pistol alongside ammo in the Trash isn't enough to deal with all of them from the starting position. Starting Area is kinda tough but nothing overwhelming if you stay in the street corners.
Aesthetics are top notch. I suppose those colored patches on the water are meant to represent sun reflection ? I wouldn't have done it that way but who am I to judge >_> Coffee Shop looks good, kinda have some "Red Light Disctrict" vibe somehow. And a secret that allows to have a better view of the sky texture.
The, I suppose, iconic part comes with that classic 720 circle with the strangeness that comes with it. First time I did this part, I struggled, especially when the BattleLords came in. Namely because I hadn't cleared the areas entirely meanwhile, also there tends to me lots of enemies, but fortunately you're given enough, especially with the 8th weapon. I wasted a good bunch of RPG on those new FireFlies. I like the idea and all, but once they're shrunk, I find it stupid that they're basically invincible except with explosions. An interesting new enemy no-less. And a bizillion Incinerator Ammo with no weapon to use it with X__X
Ending is kinda abrupt IMO. You just drop down that hole and there you go, Ending Button :/
Music, I really like it, I don't count it as a Stalker variation since it's a different music (BulletDam) but it will still remain my #1 favorite take on it ! And hell, it would even strive for the podium of my favorite DN3D music !
All in all, a surprisingly intense beginning of an episode. More so than all the previous ones. My landmark will be the Starting Area. Very nice and touristic-like ! My only complaint for the level will be that it is surprisingly short, and the ending comes a bit abruptly.
I don't have much idea yet but I'm thinking this level will thrive for the podium at the end ...
Now onto Ep5. I'll be playing with BuildGDX because World Tour had some bullshit functionalities that impede my experience too much. Such as the Weapon Switching which is completely stupid for a PC game for instance >_< And F2 and F6 being exactly the same. Why bother then ?
On Skill 3 unfortunately, since GDX doesn't allow me to dnskill5 T_T
Introduction : Not much to say since this is only my second playthrough ever >_> I forgot to talk about the new weapon in the texts so I might as well talk about it here. Incinerator is a very good weapon as it is THE cost-effective weapon in the game, yes above the Shrinker because its projectiles don't clip through enemies. Surely it slows down gameplay a bit, but more enemies, you just shoot and forget. Only downside being that it's highly unsatisfying to use due to it having ZERO sound feedback
Also, the new Sky Textures, I wish they were less pixelated because some of them would look quite grand !High Time :
It's become a trend to have tough beginnings after Ep1 ... Immediately, I'm liking what I'm seeing. Brand new textures everywhere and highly detailed environnement. Perhaps a bit too detailed because it makes enemies that aren't 6ft away kinda hard to notice. Also starting Pistol alongside ammo in the Trash isn't enough to deal with all of them from the starting position. Starting Area is kinda tough but nothing overwhelming if you stay in the street corners.
Aesthetics are top notch. I suppose those colored patches on the water are meant to represent sun reflection ? I wouldn't have done it that way but who am I to judge >_> Coffee Shop looks good, kinda have some "Red Light Disctrict" vibe somehow. And a secret that allows to have a better view of the sky texture.
The, I suppose, iconic part comes with that classic 720 circle with the strangeness that comes with it. First time I did this part, I struggled, especially when the BattleLords came in. Namely because I hadn't cleared the areas entirely meanwhile, also there tends to me lots of enemies, but fortunately you're given enough, especially with the 8th weapon. I wasted a good bunch of RPG on those new FireFlies. I like the idea and all, but once they're shrunk, I find it stupid that they're basically invincible except with explosions. An interesting new enemy no-less. And a bizillion Incinerator Ammo with no weapon to use it with X__X
Ending is kinda abrupt IMO. You just drop down that hole and there you go, Ending Button :/
Music, I really like it, I don't count it as a Stalker variation since it's a different music (BulletDam) but it will still remain my #1 favorite take on it ! And hell, it would even strive for the podium of my favorite DN3D music !
All in all, a surprisingly intense beginning of an episode. More so than all the previous ones. My landmark will be the Starting Area. Very nice and touristic-like ! My only complaint for the level will be that it is surprisingly short, and the ending comes a bit abruptly.
I don't have much idea yet but I'm thinking this level will thrive for the podium at the end ...
This post has been edited by TheDragonLiner: 15 October 2022 - 11:27 PM
#35 Posted 16 October 2022 - 09:30 AM
High Times could have been a masterpiece. The concept is great, it has a memorable layout, and a sense of place. It's the only map that uses the beta troopers well. But there were so many little things wrong from the unneccesary kitsch outside, through the usemap like use of stuff, to the lukewarm ending. Meh.
This post has been edited by The Watchtower: 16 October 2022 - 09:30 AM
#36 Posted 16 October 2022 - 01:32 PM
E4L5 - Pigsty
Levelord's masterpiece that really brings back some Episode 3 vibes here. One of my favorite levels of this episode. Nothing much more to comment. I liked how some final parts due the theme reminds me of off Duke DC expansion, and as a kid, i often had an habit to confuse between The Birth and Duke DC assets due this level. Really good, only i hated that Battlelord scum at final room.
E4L5 on Damn I'm Good Video: https://files.fm/f/mrqg5gx2h
Levelord's masterpiece that really brings back some Episode 3 vibes here. One of my favorite levels of this episode. Nothing much more to comment. I liked how some final parts due the theme reminds me of off Duke DC expansion, and as a kid, i often had an habit to confuse between The Birth and Duke DC assets due this level. Really good, only i hated that Battlelord scum at final room.
E4L5 on Damn I'm Good Video: https://files.fm/f/mrqg5gx2h
#37 Posted 16 October 2022 - 06:51 PM
Pigsty is very good indeed. I doesn't feel it's episode 3 style, but it has a tremendous atmosphere and a great urban night feeling. It could have worked well with a merger of LA Rumble.
#38 Posted 16 October 2022 - 11:09 PM
Watchtower, Beta Trooper ? Where O_o ?
Red Ruckus :
That level's a bit long so it'll be hard to sum up. Globally this feels like "Red Light District"'s town ambiance with dark music but with tons of details. There's even a shop again. Now I wonder why Duke says "Back in the USSR" while it no longer exists ... Anyway, that level reminds me of many maps of similar style, the only exception being that this one has ventilation ducts of sorts on the sides of the street and true Russian aesthetics, instead of American-ish passe-partout styles.
I'd say, like with the previous level, all the Outside Area is the landmark of the level, shop and appartment included. Because once you're going into the Bunker, it becomes less thrilling :/ Except the Final Room due to its huge size, well capturing the fact something's gonna happen, and the whole show-off aesthetics with the size and the presentation of the two Missiles. Something memorable to end the level. Not as memorable as the previous level's but still.
As for gameplay, it's kinda challenging, as the level finds ways of throwing Enforcers at me without me noticing them in the Outside Area. And it doesn't go lightly with the numbers all throughout. Especially that onslaught of Pigcops/Tanks with the Garrage and then the Barracks-like Area which is packed and with 2 Mini-Overlords O_o Triple mini-boss at the end was okay though, thanks to the size of the room. Also the BattleLord kinda helps dealing with the Overlords since they keep standing in its line of sight.
Music, when I discovered it, I found it lacking, but now that I got to listen for good while playing I like it. It's kind of a "Death Toll" track with its ghost-town like tone but with a more intense vibe, and more fitting with action gameplay.
Overall, I'd say that map is a bit less inspiring than the previous, but just like the previous level, it really shows high detail and recreates ambiances of other countries with some touristic vibes, though less present here apart from the Kremlin in the Sky Texture of course. And that weird "A" Chimney O_o Not sure where I would rank that one at the end ... perhaps a mid-fielder ...
Red Ruckus :
That level's a bit long so it'll be hard to sum up. Globally this feels like "Red Light District"'s town ambiance with dark music but with tons of details. There's even a shop again. Now I wonder why Duke says "Back in the USSR" while it no longer exists ... Anyway, that level reminds me of many maps of similar style, the only exception being that this one has ventilation ducts of sorts on the sides of the street and true Russian aesthetics, instead of American-ish passe-partout styles.
I'd say, like with the previous level, all the Outside Area is the landmark of the level, shop and appartment included. Because once you're going into the Bunker, it becomes less thrilling :/ Except the Final Room due to its huge size, well capturing the fact something's gonna happen, and the whole show-off aesthetics with the size and the presentation of the two Missiles. Something memorable to end the level. Not as memorable as the previous level's but still.
As for gameplay, it's kinda challenging, as the level finds ways of throwing Enforcers at me without me noticing them in the Outside Area. And it doesn't go lightly with the numbers all throughout. Especially that onslaught of Pigcops/Tanks with the Garrage and then the Barracks-like Area which is packed and with 2 Mini-Overlords O_o Triple mini-boss at the end was okay though, thanks to the size of the room. Also the BattleLord kinda helps dealing with the Overlords since they keep standing in its line of sight.
Music, when I discovered it, I found it lacking, but now that I got to listen for good while playing I like it. It's kind of a "Death Toll" track with its ghost-town like tone but with a more intense vibe, and more fitting with action gameplay.
Overall, I'd say that map is a bit less inspiring than the previous, but just like the previous level, it really shows high detail and recreates ambiances of other countries with some touristic vibes, though less present here apart from the Kremlin in the Sky Texture of course. And that weird "A" Chimney O_o Not sure where I would rank that one at the end ... perhaps a mid-fielder ...
This post has been edited by TheDragonLiner: 16 October 2022 - 11:10 PM
#39 Posted 17 October 2022 - 03:53 AM
What's the name of the incinerator guys in WT? Really? Fireflies? Sorry, beta trooper is the best name for that unfinished thing. The concept was great, but it was so wrong, Levelord never used it, and Blum only put them in a few scarce places after High Times. The graphics are from an old Assault Trooper beta, but others are more knowledgable on this than me.
Red Ruckus, Tour de Nukem, Bloody Hell all suffer from the same issue: they are totally random maps, and don't have any kind of narrative, what should have been the selling point of the entire thing. They are just levels... not bad ones, but not great either. It's quite clear that Tour is using scrapped areas of Sewer, but doesn't have much stuff other than that. The second half of the map is significantly superior to the first half (starting with the metro area), because at least it reminds me of classic Duke style.
But really, remove the random Russia/London/Paris kitsch from the maps (and most of them are kitsch without any relevant function), use a classic LA sky and classic city textures, would you actually guess, where you are? It's a cheap way to reproduce world areas, I would say the Randy way. And he thought we would be impressed by a low-pixel skybox with the Eiffel Tower behind. Recreating the Eiffel Tower itself, that would have been something. But even if that was unrealistic, why didn't they try something doable? From the famous world landmarks, I think stuff like Marrakesh Market, Petra, Chitzen Itza, Machu Picchu, Easter Island, Taj Mahal, the Great Wall in China would all have worked miraculously well with the Build engine. Heck, if you do Paris or London, why the fuck you didn't do the Louvre or Stonehenge??? Or the Red Square/subway/7 sisters in Moscow?
PS: I appriciate the said maps for what they are. But with less kitsch, only classic textures, Levelord should have released them as a mini-user episode. Because why not? That would have been level 9000 awesome.
Red Ruckus, Tour de Nukem, Bloody Hell all suffer from the same issue: they are totally random maps, and don't have any kind of narrative, what should have been the selling point of the entire thing. They are just levels... not bad ones, but not great either. It's quite clear that Tour is using scrapped areas of Sewer, but doesn't have much stuff other than that. The second half of the map is significantly superior to the first half (starting with the metro area), because at least it reminds me of classic Duke style.
But really, remove the random Russia/London/Paris kitsch from the maps (and most of them are kitsch without any relevant function), use a classic LA sky and classic city textures, would you actually guess, where you are? It's a cheap way to reproduce world areas, I would say the Randy way. And he thought we would be impressed by a low-pixel skybox with the Eiffel Tower behind. Recreating the Eiffel Tower itself, that would have been something. But even if that was unrealistic, why didn't they try something doable? From the famous world landmarks, I think stuff like Marrakesh Market, Petra, Chitzen Itza, Machu Picchu, Easter Island, Taj Mahal, the Great Wall in China would all have worked miraculously well with the Build engine. Heck, if you do Paris or London, why the fuck you didn't do the Louvre or Stonehenge??? Or the Red Square/subway/7 sisters in Moscow?
PS: I appriciate the said maps for what they are. But with less kitsch, only classic textures, Levelord should have released them as a mini-user episode. Because why not? That would have been level 9000 awesome.
This post has been edited by The Watchtower: 17 October 2022 - 04:21 AM
#40 Posted 17 October 2022 - 07:21 AM
I don't find those Firefly things in Alien World Order interesting either, but i still consider Episode 5 still solid overall. (judging from my last playthought of it which was like one year ago)
Anyway, let's back to Episode 4 progress. I have done secret level Area 51 and these are my thoughts about it:
E4L11 - Area 51 (Secret Level)
Another level made by Randy Pitchford. Indeed it does have some very annoying moments, but level is quite memorable due its "restricted area" architecture. Its MIDI music goes pretty well with it, but even more mystic MIDI piece would fit it even better. I think the secret area with alien space ship interior is copied and stolen from here in some 1996 User maps if i remember correctly.
E4L11 on Damn I'm Good video: https://files.fm/f/afn2hh68v
Anyway, let's back to Episode 4 progress. I have done secret level Area 51 and these are my thoughts about it:
E4L11 - Area 51 (Secret Level)
Another level made by Randy Pitchford. Indeed it does have some very annoying moments, but level is quite memorable due its "restricted area" architecture. Its MIDI music goes pretty well with it, but even more mystic MIDI piece would fit it even better. I think the secret area with alien space ship interior is copied and stolen from here in some 1996 User maps if i remember correctly.
E4L11 on Damn I'm Good video: https://files.fm/f/afn2hh68v
#41 Posted 17 October 2022 - 01:09 PM
TheDragonLiner, on 16 October 2022 - 11:09 PM, said:
Music, when I discovered it, I found it lacking, but now that I got to listen for good while playing I like it. It's kind of a "Death Toll" track with its ghost-town like tone but with a more intense vibe, and more fitting with action gameplay.
#42 Posted 17 October 2022 - 08:02 PM
E4L6 - Going Postal
Also one of my favorites. Its MIDI Music is good pumping action full of action and geniously made. The level itself is great. Along with Pigsty and It's Impossible this is one of my favorite Episode 4 masterpiece levels.
E4L6 on Damn I'm Good Video: https://files.fm/f/eywetf8hs
Also one of my favorites. Its MIDI Music is good pumping action full of action and geniously made. The level itself is great. Along with Pigsty and It's Impossible this is one of my favorite Episode 4 masterpiece levels.
E4L6 on Damn I'm Good Video: https://files.fm/f/eywetf8hs
#43 Posted 17 October 2022 - 10:46 PM
Bloody Hell :
I believe this is the Royal Shakespear Theatre ? At least that's what I thought when I understood it was a theatre. Gotta admit, I was half-stuck in the scene because I hadn't seen the control room >.< Rest of the Theatre is okay, though it's not the best place ever >_> Only stand out being that Dressing Room. I got stuck for a while on my first playthrough because I didn't imagine that Green PhoneBooth to be interactive. Especially as I don't know about all that Dr Who stuff >_>
Then it's much better ! Grand looking place. And I remember struggling a bit with the combat. Truth be told, the bullet-proof Trees don't help :/ I like the place, though it's still not as charismatic as Amsterdam was. Though I'll prefer it over Russia as it feels less monochromatic and it's more intense. At least the Sky Texture (if you can see it) gives a good feeling that you're in the more central parts of London (I believe). The trickiest part I'd say is the Enforcer Field and then the opposite side of the Building with the OverLord and a Tank among other things. Then comes a strange puzzle. It feels strange to me because it's very easy ! And yet I keep having this feeling that there is more to it than meets the eye ...
Then the galleries. My Linguistic studies come back to haunt me as I'm supposed to know who those portraits are. My English Civilisation teacher won't be happy >_> Though 1066 was all that mattered to him ... Anyway, I have nothing much to say about it apart from the aesthetics and the nice portraits. Then I believe that's Parliament ? Looks quite grandiose, but also kinda empty :/ Emperor is tough though due to the terrain. Though I eventually got him stuck next to a pillar on the edge and I could RPG it's left foot off ^^
Music, same deal as the first level's, I really like it ! I like it's beat and theme, especially the later part of it. Does it fit London ? Apart from its small bell sound at the beginning ? Dunno >_> Don't care, it rules, period.
Gameplay wise, I prefer this level over the previous, as it's more intense and action packed. Also feels more fair as I feel less ambushed in the back unlike previous level. Though this level kinda lacks in variety compared to previous. Instead it's got aesthetics that cling more to me and a stupidly good soundtrack, and it's a smaller, though heavier, pack of action.
I believe this is the Royal Shakespear Theatre ? At least that's what I thought when I understood it was a theatre. Gotta admit, I was half-stuck in the scene because I hadn't seen the control room >.< Rest of the Theatre is okay, though it's not the best place ever >_> Only stand out being that Dressing Room. I got stuck for a while on my first playthrough because I didn't imagine that Green PhoneBooth to be interactive. Especially as I don't know about all that Dr Who stuff >_>
Then it's much better ! Grand looking place. And I remember struggling a bit with the combat. Truth be told, the bullet-proof Trees don't help :/ I like the place, though it's still not as charismatic as Amsterdam was. Though I'll prefer it over Russia as it feels less monochromatic and it's more intense. At least the Sky Texture (if you can see it) gives a good feeling that you're in the more central parts of London (I believe). The trickiest part I'd say is the Enforcer Field and then the opposite side of the Building with the OverLord and a Tank among other things. Then comes a strange puzzle. It feels strange to me because it's very easy ! And yet I keep having this feeling that there is more to it than meets the eye ...
Then the galleries. My Linguistic studies come back to haunt me as I'm supposed to know who those portraits are. My English Civilisation teacher won't be happy >_> Though 1066 was all that mattered to him ... Anyway, I have nothing much to say about it apart from the aesthetics and the nice portraits. Then I believe that's Parliament ? Looks quite grandiose, but also kinda empty :/ Emperor is tough though due to the terrain. Though I eventually got him stuck next to a pillar on the edge and I could RPG it's left foot off ^^
Music, same deal as the first level's, I really like it ! I like it's beat and theme, especially the later part of it. Does it fit London ? Apart from its small bell sound at the beginning ? Dunno >_> Don't care, it rules, period.
Gameplay wise, I prefer this level over the previous, as it's more intense and action packed. Also feels more fair as I feel less ambushed in the back unlike previous level. Though this level kinda lacks in variety compared to previous. Instead it's got aesthetics that cling more to me and a stupidly good soundtrack, and it's a smaller, though heavier, pack of action.
This post has been edited by TheDragonLiner: 17 October 2022 - 10:47 PM
#44 Posted 18 October 2022 - 08:46 AM
A second one exceptionally ...
Mirage Barrage :
Egypt, why does it always have to be Egypt ? Right off the bat, I like that big ominous pitch black Pyramid that thrones atop of everything like that. Immediately entices you to try and reach it. Starting with a maze, I'm sure most people must be hating this level already, while a good case of Hugging the same wall from A to Z solves everything >_> And orientation isn't that bad since 80% of it is made out of dead-ends, quite easy to remember the way. I also notice some fires that can help with orientation. .... I played Oblivion too much x_x
There's tons of 4th weapon ammo in there, it gives gameplay a good feel, though it's not the best weapon due to all the Enforcers, but I like how it feels. Also, if there had been an M-60 instead of the Chaingun, there would have been some Exhumed vibe ^^ Not gonna stretch it but, one downside is that the environnement kinda lacks in detail and aesthetics compared to the previous levels :/ Once you exit the maze, it's just Orange Sky, with Orange Sand and a few White Pillars and Walls >_> Gameplay is better than the environnement. Also, I kinda don't like the fact you have to climb the Pyramid to get a Key, which you use back in the Maze, only to have to climb the Pyramid again ... I may have played Oblivion too much but still.
BTW, does anyone know what that statue above the hole represents ? To me it looks like a sort of Owl but it's kinda strange looking :/ Inside the Pyramid. Well it's all white and Orange ... Apart from a Brown room. Though gotta like the 5th Element references, and how you have to find the passages to each "trial" so to speak. Some of them being actually good, like the Shrinker puzzle with all the Protectors and the Lava Room. And some good fighting once all 4 stone are activated.
Alien Ship is a good climax IMO. A much more charismatic room compared to what we've seen and some good fighting. And this episode is definitely the one where I get to use the 8th weapon a bunch and that level is no exception.
Music, I like it though not my fave. It's the last of the 3 I had originally downloaded from YouTube so that means I consider it to be one of the better tracks of the episode. Since the episode isn't too long, I might rank the musics at the end ...
In the end, it feels like this level is more into ideas and gameplay than in architecture. Which is a fair design choice in its own right.
Mirage Barrage :
Egypt, why does it always have to be Egypt ? Right off the bat, I like that big ominous pitch black Pyramid that thrones atop of everything like that. Immediately entices you to try and reach it. Starting with a maze, I'm sure most people must be hating this level already, while a good case of Hugging the same wall from A to Z solves everything >_> And orientation isn't that bad since 80% of it is made out of dead-ends, quite easy to remember the way. I also notice some fires that can help with orientation. .... I played Oblivion too much x_x
There's tons of 4th weapon ammo in there, it gives gameplay a good feel, though it's not the best weapon due to all the Enforcers, but I like how it feels. Also, if there had been an M-60 instead of the Chaingun, there would have been some Exhumed vibe ^^ Not gonna stretch it but, one downside is that the environnement kinda lacks in detail and aesthetics compared to the previous levels :/ Once you exit the maze, it's just Orange Sky, with Orange Sand and a few White Pillars and Walls >_> Gameplay is better than the environnement. Also, I kinda don't like the fact you have to climb the Pyramid to get a Key, which you use back in the Maze, only to have to climb the Pyramid again ... I may have played Oblivion too much but still.
BTW, does anyone know what that statue above the hole represents ? To me it looks like a sort of Owl but it's kinda strange looking :/ Inside the Pyramid. Well it's all white and Orange ... Apart from a Brown room. Though gotta like the 5th Element references, and how you have to find the passages to each "trial" so to speak. Some of them being actually good, like the Shrinker puzzle with all the Protectors and the Lava Room. And some good fighting once all 4 stone are activated.
Alien Ship is a good climax IMO. A much more charismatic room compared to what we've seen and some good fighting. And this episode is definitely the one where I get to use the 8th weapon a bunch and that level is no exception.
Music, I like it though not my fave. It's the last of the 3 I had originally downloaded from YouTube so that means I consider it to be one of the better tracks of the episode. Since the episode isn't too long, I might rank the musics at the end ...
In the end, it feels like this level is more into ideas and gameplay than in architecture. Which is a fair design choice in its own right.
#45 Posted 19 October 2022 - 05:01 AM
E4L7 - XXX Stacy
Despite being Levelord's creation, that is again fucked up by someone else, i didn't liked this level that much except for the last part maybe.
E4L7 on Damn I'm Good Video: https://files.fm/f/aqawutbup
Despite being Levelord's creation, that is again fucked up by someone else, i didn't liked this level that much except for the last part maybe.
E4L7 on Damn I'm Good Video: https://files.fm/f/aqawutbup
#46 Posted 19 October 2022 - 06:09 AM
Mirage Barrage has some minor issues, but this is how the entire episode should have looked like. An inspired "flawed masterpiece", and a proper level in a World Tour experience.
The biggest problem is the fucked up engine actually. The level has many enemies behind pillars, and you can destroy them with a single rocket in their radius. The 3 commanders at the maze exit were the biggest offenders. Shoot the middle one, and the other two disappear. Fuck this. Also the newbeast can't shoot diagonally on slopes.
The biggest problem is the fucked up engine actually. The level has many enemies behind pillars, and you can destroy them with a single rocket in their radius. The 3 commanders at the maze exit were the biggest offenders. Shoot the middle one, and the other two disappear. Fuck this. Also the newbeast can't shoot diagonally on slopes.
#47 Posted 19 October 2022 - 07:42 PM
E4L8 - Critical Mass
Good Level. Have very mysterious and mystic feeling about it. Some parts reminds me of E1L6 : Launch Facility. It is very well detailed and i like the puzzles and architecture. Even this level has some similarities with Duke DC. (mostly in final parts before explosion near the Derelict ship) Only bad part that level gets kinda annoying on harder skill settings due the shitloads of Protector Drones and Octabrain, but an very good Classic overall.
E4L8 on Damn I'm Good Video: https://files.fm/f/ybnj2ndap
Good Level. Have very mysterious and mystic feeling about it. Some parts reminds me of E1L6 : Launch Facility. It is very well detailed and i like the puzzles and architecture. Even this level has some similarities with Duke DC. (mostly in final parts before explosion near the Derelict ship) Only bad part that level gets kinda annoying on harder skill settings due the shitloads of Protector Drones and Octabrain, but an very good Classic overall.
E4L8 on Damn I'm Good Video: https://files.fm/f/ybnj2ndap
#48 Posted 19 October 2022 - 08:48 PM
I was hoping to find some time to replay the whole of The Birth sometime this month but that's probably not happening (unless?), so what I'll do for now is post my impression on each level but from the perspective of little kid-me who was struggling through that one around release time (alongside some distant relatives who were doing the same thing, I remember exchanging tips with uncles and cousins on the phone pre-Internet, was a cool era). Of course this may or may not be completely different to what my current impressions would be, especially from a mapper's standpoint, but gives me something original to post in one of those threads for once.
It's Impossible - may be an unpopular opinion but I don't have fond memories of that one at all. I remember thinking recreating the Mission: Impossible laser pit sequence in a video game was brilliant because it was iconic at the time, but level felt rather bland and gimmicky otherwise although it didn't exactly look bad - some of the references (like the succession of doors) were flying over my head which may have contributed to that. But I remember feeling like dedicating a whole level to a movie franchise felt off, so far base Duke 3D had established subtle pop culture nods and Easter eggs here and there in level parts (usually secret ones), whereas now this felt a bit too much and contrived. Music probably contributed to this. Wouldn't have minded a less in-your-face introduction to the episode with what would have been a more typical Duke 3D E1/E3 vibe and then the room with the lasers at the end to tie things up, more subtlety instead of being absolutely mistaken for Ethan Hunt. Stylistic direction aside though, on technical terms I remember it was a pretty decent level and the atmosphere could have been a lot worse.
Duke Burger - probably one of my favorites from E4, but I had played that one a shitload on the N64 where it was a secret level accessible from E1L2 long before I even got PC Atomic and so was already familiar. It's much more in line with Duke 3D E1/E3 with the sector-over-sector going on under the street to connect the two buildings, although it's a rather basic application compared to some of the stuff E1/E3 had done in that department. Always appreciated the amount of Pigcops too. Simple level but looks good and doesn't fault much if anything at all, also in part thanks to only being so ambitious. Card you have to get from the machine never bothered me, I remember being quick to find it because the machine aesthetically stood out and explicitly said 'order here'. Feels cryptic now, but I'm not sure it was as much back then - most players were more used to trying to hug every weird wall to try and progress.
Shop 'n' Bag - I also always loved that one, the intro section with the collapsing building is simple but I remember thinking was epic at the time, and then the level always felt like some classic Duke 3D goodness to me. Turret in the vents arguably is a bit mean, but I've seen a lot worse. I never really looked into the changes this level supposedly went through, wouldn't be opposed to knowing how different the original map was exactly. I remember liking how it used space and would turn aisles and crates into obstacles, also for platforming - early, cool pairing of form and function. The ending always felt sus.
Babe Land - I never got that one, always felt like a 1996 user map to me in terms of coherence. My guess always was one central effect or set piece dictated the theme originally, and then a lot of random bits must have been built (or copied) around that as a wonky extension, also possibly to get to cram in new mechanics like the ducks and targets, but I always hated those and never adopted them in my own mapping. Those puzzles always felt a lot more cryptic and contrived than the Duke Burger machine, to me. Never thought it looked good or played so well either, mostly due to very little verticality - aside from the pirate ship segment, a lot about it just feels flat, literally. It's probably the Duke 3D map where I feel trapped and sandwiched in between the sky and the ground the most if that makes any sense.
Pigsty - Always dug that one too, it starts off strong and moody but then I feel like loses some speed and ends just before coming to a stop. Not much to fault that I can think of, though - it's a decent Duke 3D level albeit IIRC a rather short romp.
Area 51 - I also remember that one as moody but apart from that do not have specifically good or bad memories from that map, it's just kind of there. Some of the Protector Drone fights I remember at the time felt epic, but once the novelty factor has worn off there isn't much to look back on and some of the design felt particularly sloppy.
Postal - This one is pretty great, one of my favorites from The Birth too as its design isn't necessarily ambitious but the theme and layout is interesting, the conveyor belt system felt very Duke 3D and the parking lot fight was memorable. It's pretty hard to get bored in that one since it's a few minutes of progressive build-up through some weird but intriguing environment culminating with that one giga fight and then level exit.
XXX Stacy - Started off pretty cool but then gave up on its theme and veered into nonsense. I actually liked the part of the map after the studio itself I remember, it's not completely bad per se except after having introduced a direction the map chooses to fail it and instead goes off topic with what feels like a completely disconnected second half that comes in way too early.
Rest of the episode is lost on me a bit more as I would usually lose interest in playing around XXX Stacy. But Critical Mass - I haven't played that map a lot but every time I did I remember loving that it really felt dynamic, I think for a short stint as a kid it was one of my favorite Duke 3D levels just on the basis of the progressive action and resolve alone. Derelict technically is a masterpiece, but I'd always get lost in that one and was too young to appreciate it but for how impressive it was at the time. The Queen - I actually like the principle behind that entire level, unfortunately the execution of the boss fight itself kind of sucks (always loved the arena and its theme and concept, and how oppressive it was meant to feel; just the boss itself is kind of free, but that's most Duke 3D bosses).
It's Impossible - may be an unpopular opinion but I don't have fond memories of that one at all. I remember thinking recreating the Mission: Impossible laser pit sequence in a video game was brilliant because it was iconic at the time, but level felt rather bland and gimmicky otherwise although it didn't exactly look bad - some of the references (like the succession of doors) were flying over my head which may have contributed to that. But I remember feeling like dedicating a whole level to a movie franchise felt off, so far base Duke 3D had established subtle pop culture nods and Easter eggs here and there in level parts (usually secret ones), whereas now this felt a bit too much and contrived. Music probably contributed to this. Wouldn't have minded a less in-your-face introduction to the episode with what would have been a more typical Duke 3D E1/E3 vibe and then the room with the lasers at the end to tie things up, more subtlety instead of being absolutely mistaken for Ethan Hunt. Stylistic direction aside though, on technical terms I remember it was a pretty decent level and the atmosphere could have been a lot worse.
Duke Burger - probably one of my favorites from E4, but I had played that one a shitload on the N64 where it was a secret level accessible from E1L2 long before I even got PC Atomic and so was already familiar. It's much more in line with Duke 3D E1/E3 with the sector-over-sector going on under the street to connect the two buildings, although it's a rather basic application compared to some of the stuff E1/E3 had done in that department. Always appreciated the amount of Pigcops too. Simple level but looks good and doesn't fault much if anything at all, also in part thanks to only being so ambitious. Card you have to get from the machine never bothered me, I remember being quick to find it because the machine aesthetically stood out and explicitly said 'order here'. Feels cryptic now, but I'm not sure it was as much back then - most players were more used to trying to hug every weird wall to try and progress.
Shop 'n' Bag - I also always loved that one, the intro section with the collapsing building is simple but I remember thinking was epic at the time, and then the level always felt like some classic Duke 3D goodness to me. Turret in the vents arguably is a bit mean, but I've seen a lot worse. I never really looked into the changes this level supposedly went through, wouldn't be opposed to knowing how different the original map was exactly. I remember liking how it used space and would turn aisles and crates into obstacles, also for platforming - early, cool pairing of form and function. The ending always felt sus.
Babe Land - I never got that one, always felt like a 1996 user map to me in terms of coherence. My guess always was one central effect or set piece dictated the theme originally, and then a lot of random bits must have been built (or copied) around that as a wonky extension, also possibly to get to cram in new mechanics like the ducks and targets, but I always hated those and never adopted them in my own mapping. Those puzzles always felt a lot more cryptic and contrived than the Duke Burger machine, to me. Never thought it looked good or played so well either, mostly due to very little verticality - aside from the pirate ship segment, a lot about it just feels flat, literally. It's probably the Duke 3D map where I feel trapped and sandwiched in between the sky and the ground the most if that makes any sense.
Pigsty - Always dug that one too, it starts off strong and moody but then I feel like loses some speed and ends just before coming to a stop. Not much to fault that I can think of, though - it's a decent Duke 3D level albeit IIRC a rather short romp.
Area 51 - I also remember that one as moody but apart from that do not have specifically good or bad memories from that map, it's just kind of there. Some of the Protector Drone fights I remember at the time felt epic, but once the novelty factor has worn off there isn't much to look back on and some of the design felt particularly sloppy.
Postal - This one is pretty great, one of my favorites from The Birth too as its design isn't necessarily ambitious but the theme and layout is interesting, the conveyor belt system felt very Duke 3D and the parking lot fight was memorable. It's pretty hard to get bored in that one since it's a few minutes of progressive build-up through some weird but intriguing environment culminating with that one giga fight and then level exit.
XXX Stacy - Started off pretty cool but then gave up on its theme and veered into nonsense. I actually liked the part of the map after the studio itself I remember, it's not completely bad per se except after having introduced a direction the map chooses to fail it and instead goes off topic with what feels like a completely disconnected second half that comes in way too early.
Rest of the episode is lost on me a bit more as I would usually lose interest in playing around XXX Stacy. But Critical Mass - I haven't played that map a lot but every time I did I remember loving that it really felt dynamic, I think for a short stint as a kid it was one of my favorite Duke 3D levels just on the basis of the progressive action and resolve alone. Derelict technically is a masterpiece, but I'd always get lost in that one and was too young to appreciate it but for how impressive it was at the time. The Queen - I actually like the principle behind that entire level, unfortunately the execution of the boss fight itself kind of sucks (always loved the arena and its theme and concept, and how oppressive it was meant to feel; just the boss itself is kind of free, but that's most Duke 3D bosses).
This post has been edited by ck3D: 19 October 2022 - 09:13 PM
#49 Posted 19 October 2022 - 10:52 PM
Prima Arena :
I remember when I first played that level, I struggled throughout. The beginning has nothing special to it, however once you open the doors it's a different story. BTW, weird Blue KeyCard not serving any purpose >_> The Arena itself, IMO, represents what the Stadium from Ep3 should have been in a way. That BattleLord however, it takes me something like 25 or so rockets to beat it O_o To the point I was wondering if there wasn't a glitch when I first played.
Fighting is good, so long as you don't rush too much and get swarmed. Then I remember getting confused because the Big Pool of water gave me a feeling it was going elsewhere than the other Pool because of how big the area is under the big one.
Then comes a relatively forgettable part for the Yellow KeyCard. Only the Mini OverLord and its short-lived escort of OctaBrains keep the thing more lively. Now I remember circling around quite a bunch on my first playthrough because I had missed the Door x_x Then back to the surface where nothing much happens. Just a bunch of Enforcers having spawned at the Doors. I was expecting more, even with the Red KeyCard. Leads me to believe that the BattleLord I faced earlier might have been a glitch from GDX and you're actually supposed to fight it now. Could be wrong but that's the feeling it gives me >_>
Music, goes well with an Arena setting, though I'm not a fan of its style. Another case of music I like in-game but not out-game.
Not much to say about this level because I find it to be the second least inspiring level of the episode :/ The Arena looks cool but that's pretty much it. The rest around it doesn't bring much. It's kind of a forgettable level apart from the arena. That's my feeling at least >_>
I remember when I first played that level, I struggled throughout. The beginning has nothing special to it, however once you open the doors it's a different story. BTW, weird Blue KeyCard not serving any purpose >_> The Arena itself, IMO, represents what the Stadium from Ep3 should have been in a way. That BattleLord however, it takes me something like 25 or so rockets to beat it O_o To the point I was wondering if there wasn't a glitch when I first played.
Fighting is good, so long as you don't rush too much and get swarmed. Then I remember getting confused because the Big Pool of water gave me a feeling it was going elsewhere than the other Pool because of how big the area is under the big one.
Then comes a relatively forgettable part for the Yellow KeyCard. Only the Mini OverLord and its short-lived escort of OctaBrains keep the thing more lively. Now I remember circling around quite a bunch on my first playthrough because I had missed the Door x_x Then back to the surface where nothing much happens. Just a bunch of Enforcers having spawned at the Doors. I was expecting more, even with the Red KeyCard. Leads me to believe that the BattleLord I faced earlier might have been a glitch from GDX and you're actually supposed to fight it now. Could be wrong but that's the feeling it gives me >_>
Music, goes well with an Arena setting, though I'm not a fan of its style. Another case of music I like in-game but not out-game.
Not much to say about this level because I find it to be the second least inspiring level of the episode :/ The Arena looks cool but that's pretty much it. The rest around it doesn't bring much. It's kind of a forgettable level apart from the arena. That's my feeling at least >_>
This post has been edited by TheDragonLiner: 19 October 2022 - 10:53 PM
- Honored Donor
-
#50 Posted 20 October 2022 - 03:36 PM
E4L4 - Babe Land is one of my favorites. The music sort of reminds me of the movie Commando or Red Heat, even if Lee Jackson wasn't inspired by James Horner here, I can sort of feel the same feeling from the music track.
This map gets pretty intense on Damn I'm Good with a pistol start but there's just enough ammo around to take care of everything and blow up most of the bodies to prevent respawns. The design is rather unusual as the way the different rides connect feels a bit bland compared to the rest of the map. There looks like there's some sort of unfinished or destroyed ride that was meant to be some sort of roller coaster, but it leads you to a control room to unlock the ride entrances. My favorite area is for sure the boat ride which would be used in DN64's "Piracy" Dukematch map. While this map is OK, I feel it would've been far more interesting if they made it "Duke World" or something and have rides that reflect the previous episodes in some way.
E4L5 - Pigsty is probably my favorite of the episode but likely because I am a huge Terminator fan, and love all the references to cinematic cop heroes found in the offices. The music makes me think of "The People's Court" theme at certain parts, and I really like it. Bleeping the line from Die Hard was pretty fucking stupid though. Duke can say all the other curse words but fuck had to be bleeped? I wonder if Duke would've been allowed to say cunt. Anyways, this map is really cool and has a lot going for it.
This map gets pretty intense on Damn I'm Good with a pistol start but there's just enough ammo around to take care of everything and blow up most of the bodies to prevent respawns. The design is rather unusual as the way the different rides connect feels a bit bland compared to the rest of the map. There looks like there's some sort of unfinished or destroyed ride that was meant to be some sort of roller coaster, but it leads you to a control room to unlock the ride entrances. My favorite area is for sure the boat ride which would be used in DN64's "Piracy" Dukematch map. While this map is OK, I feel it would've been far more interesting if they made it "Duke World" or something and have rides that reflect the previous episodes in some way.
E4L5 - Pigsty is probably my favorite of the episode but likely because I am a huge Terminator fan, and love all the references to cinematic cop heroes found in the offices. The music makes me think of "The People's Court" theme at certain parts, and I really like it. Bleeping the line from Die Hard was pretty fucking stupid though. Duke can say all the other curse words but fuck had to be bleeped? I wonder if Duke would've been allowed to say cunt. Anyways, this map is really cool and has a lot going for it.
This post has been edited by DNSKILL: 20 October 2022 - 03:51 PM
- Honored Donor
-
#51 Posted 20 October 2022 - 03:51 PM
And since my video took the secret exit,
E4L11 - Area 51 is a great secret level. I love the sense of uneasiness as you notice all the research the government has been doing is basically worthless as the aliens have taken the base for themselves. This map is likely the hardest to complete on DIG via a pistol start because of how many enemies there are and the tight spaces inside the base make it hard to use explosive weapons at times when there's tons of protector drones.
E4L11 - Area 51 is a great secret level. I love the sense of uneasiness as you notice all the research the government has been doing is basically worthless as the aliens have taken the base for themselves. This map is likely the hardest to complete on DIG via a pistol start because of how many enemies there are and the tight spaces inside the base make it hard to use explosive weapons at times when there's tons of protector drones.
#52 Posted 20 October 2022 - 05:57 PM
E4L9 - Derelict
I appreciate the effort and how its built, but man this level is so complex and over way too much confusing. I even rather play Babe Land than this shit horrible thing. But as i said already, i appreciate the effort and time the author put in this level.
Not to mention it's way too much unbalanced on Damn I'm Good skill level. So i was kinda forced to rush it to the end, without doing any effort of searching for any secrets. And on DIG, much kills as possible doesn't even matter since it's always "N/A" enemies left.
E4L9 on Damn I'm Good Video: https://files.fm/f/52g9nxg4y
I appreciate the effort and how its built, but man this level is so complex and over way too much confusing. I even rather play Babe Land than this shit horrible thing. But as i said already, i appreciate the effort and time the author put in this level.
Not to mention it's way too much unbalanced on Damn I'm Good skill level. So i was kinda forced to rush it to the end, without doing any effort of searching for any secrets. And on DIG, much kills as possible doesn't even matter since it's always "N/A" enemies left.
E4L9 on Damn I'm Good Video: https://files.fm/f/52g9nxg4y
This post has been edited by LakiSoft: 20 October 2022 - 05:57 PM
#53 Posted 20 October 2022 - 10:49 PM
"You notice all the research the government has been doing is basically worthless as the aliens haven taken the base for themselves"
As usual :/
Tour de Nukem :
Beginning is a bit reminiscent of the first level with all the colors and details. Though it's a much tighter fit since it seems to be central Paris. Small office at the beginning kinda reminds me of some Oostrum maps somehow ... First Area is kinda tough because, like in Amsterdam, the details of the surroundings make enemies harder to spot, and the fact some snipe you from windows doesn't help. And then close encounters with Tanks and PigCops keep spicing things up.
Now this is not the Paris I saw when I went there, these aren't Hausmanian buildings :/ Second Street is another challenge. I remember a review where the guy talked about Ep5 having "Fuck off Difficulty". Globally I don't agree but I'll make an exception with that second street due to the 2 Tanks and Pigs right next to you like that ! While the way is blocked behind you and there are goons on the right too X_X
After that, it's more okay. The garrage-like area after the Key is okay. Incinerator clears them out with just a couple of shots. Told you that weapon was good ! Quite a rough start anyway ...
Sewers, more charismatic than what I'm used to seeing. And some interesting combats with the Metro being destroyed among other things. Platforming I don't mind, except when there's lots of combat alongside. Still a good challenge to tackle. I like how the Emperor in the penultimate area just killed himself on my first playthrough. Final fight is a lot tougher than it looks O_o Namely due to having to dispose of the Commanders first and all those Slimes messing up auto-aiming >_<
And full Devastator isn't even enough ! Good thing the game gives you too much ammo for it, completely negating the battle's impact on ammo.
Music, it's okay, personally I'm not a fan due to how it's repetitive, it's always the same thing. I like the sad rock vibe it has, and some of the sounds behind it, but it's just always repeating >_>
In the end, this levels turns out to be one of more challenging of the bunch IMO. I sure struggled a bit through it on my first playthrough :/
As usual :/
Tour de Nukem :
Beginning is a bit reminiscent of the first level with all the colors and details. Though it's a much tighter fit since it seems to be central Paris. Small office at the beginning kinda reminds me of some Oostrum maps somehow ... First Area is kinda tough because, like in Amsterdam, the details of the surroundings make enemies harder to spot, and the fact some snipe you from windows doesn't help. And then close encounters with Tanks and PigCops keep spicing things up.
Now this is not the Paris I saw when I went there, these aren't Hausmanian buildings :/ Second Street is another challenge. I remember a review where the guy talked about Ep5 having "Fuck off Difficulty". Globally I don't agree but I'll make an exception with that second street due to the 2 Tanks and Pigs right next to you like that ! While the way is blocked behind you and there are goons on the right too X_X
After that, it's more okay. The garrage-like area after the Key is okay. Incinerator clears them out with just a couple of shots. Told you that weapon was good ! Quite a rough start anyway ...
Sewers, more charismatic than what I'm used to seeing. And some interesting combats with the Metro being destroyed among other things. Platforming I don't mind, except when there's lots of combat alongside. Still a good challenge to tackle. I like how the Emperor in the penultimate area just killed himself on my first playthrough. Final fight is a lot tougher than it looks O_o Namely due to having to dispose of the Commanders first and all those Slimes messing up auto-aiming >_<
And full Devastator isn't even enough ! Good thing the game gives you too much ammo for it, completely negating the battle's impact on ammo.
Music, it's okay, personally I'm not a fan due to how it's repetitive, it's always the same thing. I like the sad rock vibe it has, and some of the sounds behind it, but it's just always repeating >_>
In the end, this levels turns out to be one of more challenging of the bunch IMO. I sure struggled a bit through it on my first playthrough :/
This post has been edited by TheDragonLiner: 20 October 2022 - 10:53 PM
#54 Posted 21 October 2022 - 01:55 AM
I find it really interesting how with episodes 1-3 there's pretty much a general consensus at least to a certain degree on which levels are considered the best besides some details in the opinions, but then for The Birth, the opinions on basically every single level vary so drastically from love to hate. And moreover, it's not only about the feel of the level, combat etc., but even the perception of design and aesthetics (for example, I think Area 51 might be the best detailed/most "realistic" level in Duke, then ck3d finds it "particularly sloppy"; LakiSoft likes the "details and architecture" in Critical Mass, while I've always found it to be a gimmicky level centered around the traps and so with pretty crude/basic design (again, the room where you find blue key always reminded me something from an early 1996 user maps). Not really saying this to spark a grand academic discussion, but just about how easily the reception of a level can be completely different depending on the audience, which only gets amplified by the fact that mostly all of us experienced this thing for the first time as kids, decades ago.
Man this map has plenty of stuff reminiscent of Oostrum maps, maybe early ck3d and most of all, the area that's super Roch-like! I think it pretty much proves that Levelord didn't just stay in his cave for these 20 years, but did end up playing some of the mapping community, since the evolution in style seems very similar and this would easily pass as a 2004ish user map.
Quote
Small office at the beginning kinda reminds me of some Oostrum maps somehow ...
Man this map has plenty of stuff reminiscent of Oostrum maps, maybe early ck3d and most of all, the area that's super Roch-like! I think it pretty much proves that Levelord didn't just stay in his cave for these 20 years, but did end up playing some of the mapping community, since the evolution in style seems very similar and this would easily pass as a 2004ish user map.
#55 Posted 21 October 2022 - 02:48 AM
Aleks, on 21 October 2022 - 01:55 AM, said:
I find it really interesting how with episodes 1-3 there's pretty much a general consensus at least to a certain degree on which levels are considered the best besides some details in the opinions, but then for The Birth, the opinions on basically every single level vary so drastically from love to hate.
I'm pretty sure our first meetings with the levels also had an influence. Even a good level can be hated if the person had a bad first experience with it, and vice versa.
#56 Posted 21 October 2022 - 02:53 AM
Aleks, on 21 October 2022 - 01:55 AM, said:
I find it really interesting how with episodes 1-3 there's pretty much a general consensus at least to a certain degree on which levels are considered the best besides some details in the opinions, but then for The Birth, the opinions on basically every single level vary so drastically from love to hate. And moreover, it's not only about the feel of the level, combat etc., but even the perception of design and aesthetics (for example, I think Area 51 might be the best detailed/most "realistic" level in Duke, then ck3d finds it "particularly sloppy"; LakiSoft likes the "details and architecture" in Critical Mass, while I've always found it to be a gimmicky level centered around the traps and so with pretty crude/basic design (again, the room where you find blue key always reminded me something from an early 1996 user maps). Not really saying this to spark a grand academic discussion, but just about how easily the reception of a level can be completely different depending on the audience, which only gets amplified by the fact that mostly all of us experienced this thing for the first time as kids, decades ago.
What's most funny to me is how I gave Derelict a perfect score but it's been panned by literally everyone else but Watchtower. The reason why I like Derelict so much is because I both appreciate the extra difficulty and I appreciate its extreme ambition for being a map that originated from LameDuke. I'd say I only played Duke 3D for the first time in 2020 - I had only been a Doom person before then and I was only just exploring the Build Engine trinity (I hadn't even played Blood yet). I'm not gonna try and say my opinions are 100% factual or anything, but I think what can definitely influence a player's perception of a map is nostalgia. I might really like Derelict, but I can definitely see how a teen playing The Birth for the first time and getting lost for 45 minutes wouldn't make them like the map very much.
#57 Posted 21 October 2022 - 04:37 AM
Derelict separates the boys from the men. I know others who love it, for example, Mikko. It got several 10/10s back then on AMC.
BTW I disagree with Aleks. There is no real consensus on the first 3 episodes. Many love Hotel Hell, I find it overrated. Red Light District is also a map with varied opinions. I think it's terrible. On the other hand I love Death Row, Toxic Dump, The Abyss, many dislike these.
BTW I disagree with Aleks. There is no real consensus on the first 3 episodes. Many love Hotel Hell, I find it overrated. Red Light District is also a map with varied opinions. I think it's terrible. On the other hand I love Death Row, Toxic Dump, The Abyss, many dislike these.
This post has been edited by The Watchtower: 21 October 2022 - 04:39 AM
#58 Posted 21 October 2022 - 07:12 AM
For what that's worth, I never said I disliked Derelict, I always found it fascinating and just didn't get to play it much due to the level's placement in the episode - all the former levels usually would have worn me out by the time I'd reach it, I'd have zero brain space left. Said placement as the penultimate level makes perfect sense but now I wonder how The Birth would have felt like with an introductory level that would have been in a similar style or as cool. A lot of E4 seems to be about being bombarded with new mechanics and themes and pop culture references all the time, and fatigues me way more to play than E1/2/3 (I don't think I ever abandoned a playthrough of those, but I've definitely abandoned plenty of E4 playthroughs after getting my fill of action).
This post has been edited by ck3D: 21 October 2022 - 07:14 AM
- Honored Donor
-
#59 Posted 21 October 2022 - 11:13 AM
E4L6 - Going Postal is a lot of fun and depicts a US post office quite well. I love the barricade near the end of the level where you're ambushed by a bunch of baddies. I'm pretty sure this is one of those maps that was made during development of E2 and E3 that was initially scrapped. If not, then it at least feels this way. This map also has my favorite music track of the whole episode. It adds a lot to the idea of Duke going "postal" on the aliens inside the post office.
E4L7 - XXX-Stacy is another map that makes me feel like it may have been designed during development for the registered game release. It feels like it would've fit in E3. I love the sniper ambush from the window you open when using the blue access card. I feel like there was wasted potential here though. Duke could've used a line in the comedy club and gave some dumb joke if he spoke into the mic. To me this is one of the easier maps of the episode.
E4L7 - XXX-Stacy is another map that makes me feel like it may have been designed during development for the registered game release. It feels like it would've fit in E3. I love the sniper ambush from the window you open when using the blue access card. I feel like there was wasted potential here though. Duke could've used a line in the comedy club and gave some dumb joke if he spoke into the mic. To me this is one of the easier maps of the episode.
This post has been edited by DNSKILL: 21 October 2022 - 11:14 AM
#60 Posted 21 October 2022 - 04:38 PM
E4L10 - The Queen
This is the level where things are getting started to be interesting. There's two giant puzzles you need to solve, and grab the keycards in order to confront Alien Queen in underwater base. Not to mention that before you reach Queen's area you have to RUN AWAY THE CRAP OUT THAT Purple liquid before it drains your protection boots. Really challenging but also really fun. Fuck Battlelords in main puzzles (both green and purple rooms) though. They were placed too way much annoying. But overall, this is really good final boss level to finish this master piece video game.
E4L10 on Damn I'm Good Video: https://files.fm/f/xhewxxrae
This is the level where things are getting started to be interesting. There's two giant puzzles you need to solve, and grab the keycards in order to confront Alien Queen in underwater base. Not to mention that before you reach Queen's area you have to RUN AWAY THE CRAP OUT THAT Purple liquid before it drains your protection boots. Really challenging but also really fun. Fuck Battlelords in main puzzles (both green and purple rooms) though. They were placed too way much annoying. But overall, this is really good final boss level to finish this master piece video game.
E4L10 on Damn I'm Good Video: https://files.fm/f/xhewxxrae
