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[RELEASE] BattleDuke  "7 maps filled with Battlelords!"

User is offline   Sanek 

#1

Here's my brand new episode called BattleDuke, actually my first episode for the vanilla game in more than decade!

It's 7 new maps, where every enemy you're fighting with is a Battlelord! They have twice as much health than usual, so if it doesn't sound like your cup of tea, don't play it!

Each map was made within 24 hours periods, so 7 maps was made in 7 days. Testing and fixing/polishing took over a month though.

You have to use strategy and all the skills in order to beat these guys! Some levels you start without weapons, some you carry the weapons from previous map, but in any case each map was designed with pistol-start in mind. Don't forget to use Holoduke when you have it and remember: each bullet counts! It'll be a real bummer when you're just a pistol shot away from victory and you didn't get it in the end. Sure, you can speedrun the whole thing, and don't kill all the enemies, but will it make you a man? No, it will make a chicken! You have enough ammo on each level, so try to 100% it, okay? :rolleyes:

Thanks to Ninety-Six for a detailed report of each map, he really helped me to polish the maps (without changing my vision of the project) and pointed some fatal flaws in the process.

The whole thing was inspired by the Faces of Death map from L.A. Meltdown. I like this map since it's a real challenge even for a seasoned player. I started adding Battlelords on some dukematch maps, then decied to make levels designed specifically with battlelords in mind.

I don't know how you'll react to this episode. You either love it or hate it. In any case, I released this episode the way I wanted it to be release, even if it means that you'll hate it.

But i'm not over yet: I send my previous unfinished project (a 'normal' single-player map) to one excellent mapper, so you might see a new release from me at one point or another.

Meanwhile, enjoy (?) this episode. :)

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: duke0049.png
  • Attached Image: duke0057.png
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Attached File(s)


16

User is online   quakis 

#2

Having played through it all, I'm honestly glad you kept the intended vision intact. Being inspired by Faces of Death already grabbed my interest, definitely a nice twist, yet horrifying because my first encounter with that level was playing through Duke3D on the PS1. It was brutal.

As for Battleduke, I enjoyed it a ton, finishing each level with 100% kills after dying several times until I understood a tactic that worked for me. Some comments below;

We Store Your Space
Spoiler

Assault on Memorial
Spoiler

Woodsteroid
Spoiler

Tiberius Madness
Spoiler

Jungle Hive
Spoiler

Hunter or Prey
Spoiler

Halls of Battles
Spoiler

What a ride that was, a refreshing twist exploring a relatively ignored level concept and seeing how far you can push the idea. Yeah I really liked this release, good work Sanek, please keep mapping what you consider a fun project to create and play!
5

User is offline   Sanek 

#3

Thank you for such a detailed review, quakis!


Quote

then stepped on a mortar from a previous fight and died.


Oh yeah, that's where the pistol comes to use.

Quote

Just after dropping down a vent shaft he got close to the grate making him easy pickings to be kicked to death. It was slow. Painful. And by that I meant Duke's foot, which must be swolen by now.


Damn dude that's crazy! I never attempted to kick'em myself, ever. In this particular case i went through the vent, then deal with the guy after i get the yellow key.

Quote

The Battlelords didn't stand a chance, did you increase the shrink radius? I'm certain a single blast shrunk three of them at once.


Yes. You can shrink the lords with a default settings actually, but you must shoot at a very certain angle, which might work only half of the time. After I increased the radius, it gets him with a shot one, as well as some nearby guys in the process.

btw, did you find any secrets?

Anyway, glad that you enjoyed this episode!
1

User is online   quakis 

#4

View PostSanek, on 05 June 2022 - 02:34 AM, said:

Oh yeah, that's where the pistol comes to use.

Definitely, sometimes handy for extra splash damage against Battlelords too. I think in that instance the mortar was hidden just behind a crate out of sight.

View PostSanek, on 05 June 2022 - 02:34 AM, said:

Yes. You can shrink the lords with a default settings actually, but you must shoot at a very certain angle, which might work only half of the time. After I increased the radius, it gets him with a shot one, as well as some nearby guys in the process.

I actually thought after grabbing the Shrinker you were intending for players to know and exploit that glitch, but I guess since the radius had been increased, it's a little simpler to pull off and basically Duke's equivalent to the BFG for this episode.

View PostSanek, on 05 June 2022 - 02:34 AM, said:

btw, did you find any secrets?

Actually, I don't believe I did. I am curious how much of a difference they could provide had I found them.
1

User is offline   Sanek 

#5

View Postquakis, on 05 June 2022 - 03:27 AM, said:

Actually, I don't believe I did. I am curious how much of a difference they could provide had I found them.


Spoiler

1

User is offline   ck3D 

#6

Congrats on release! Radar's vid:


3

User is offline   Sanek 

#7

thanks, ck3D!

This video shows all the secrets, yes... but it is not representative of the pack in the slightest. He obviously played it before recording so he jumped over the touchplates, he obviously changed the amount of health that lords have and on top of that he did something (either cheated or smtn with the port's version) that caused some bugs with door on level 2.

I'm sorry if i'm nitpicking on Radar or sound like a dick, but as the author I can't stand things like this.

I had to say it, i'm sorry.
1

User is offline   Radar 

  • King of SOVL

#8

I didn't do anything like modifying the health of the battlelords or using a different port to exploit glitches. I'm using close to the latest EDuke32. As for skipping touch plates that appear to only spawn battlelords... yes I jumped over those if the opportunity presented itself. That's not cheating; it's quite easy to do that even on accident. As a general rule of mapping, if you attach a horde of enemies to a touch plate, it's important that it also does something essential such as opening a door needed to progress, or something similar. Otherwise if it just spawns monsters, I'll pass. It's not the first or the last touch plate I've skipped.

This post has been edited by Radar: 06 June 2022 - 03:42 PM

3

User is offline   Sanek 

#9

I said what i think already. I don't want to start meaningless arguing, so tired of all this.

I'm done.
1

#10

Hey.
Congrats on release. Beat it with 100% kills. Played the episode on the day it was released actually, but I didn’t have time to type out my thoughts. To be honest I was kinda sceptical when I first saw those screenshots in “What are you working on” thread, but as soon as I read the description I was intrigued. It did pay off.

Right off the bat my favorite level is Hunter Or Prey. It’s a very clever idea and finally somebody made some use of Holoduke. The level itself wasn’t as difficult for me as it was for quakis, I beat it rather quickly, but it was tense and fun. The labyrinth-like layout worked very well since you can’t be sure where the enemies are, which in turn creates tense situations as you lure the monsters away from the center of the map to distract them with Holoduke and collect much needed supplies potentially running into more Battlelords. Good stuff. Being a Holoduke master myself the ending of the map was a piece of cake: I just placed a Holoduke in the far end of the corridor and created a bottleneck for myself so I could unload almost everything I had from a safe distance.

Another really great level I think is Woodsteroid which is also the toughest one. The map is chaos: I died many times in this map, but after learning the map and retrying a couple of times I’ve managed to find a strategy and route that works and then I could brute force my way through. The design of the arena is also pretty cool: lots of space, height variations, cover, elevators and these mean teleporters managed to catch me off-guard. I also like how you have to use steroid jumps: another underused mechanic of Duke 3D. By the end of the map I had 6 HP and almost no ammo left, but I did manage to kill everything.
Also I enjoyed Tiberius Madness quite a bunch, mostly because the layout makes great use of tripbombs: maps 2&3 barely provided a meaningful way to use them, but here I think I used them the most. In terms of difficulty the map was a breather for me, but still fun.

The balancing is mostly good. I always had just enough ammo to kill everything (and I didn’t find any of the secrets), though some levels tip the scale off. The worst offenders in that regard were open arenas where you had to run around looking for the last scraps of ammo with little health in a wide open area with battlelords sniping you from far away, though sniping was an issue only in maps 2 & 5.

I’m not going to nitpick the visuals (which can be characteristically sloppy: for example I found leftover acid in Junge Hive, stretched out textures in other levels and etc.) and level design too much, since I know it wasn’t your intention to make super complicated levels with detailed visuals and you wanted short concise and to the point arenas, and the maps themselves were made in a week, but I would still point out that this concept would’ve greatly benefited from slightly more complex design: as of now some of the levels can make the whole concept feel undercooked (and I do believe there could be a lot done with this concept).

The best levels like Woodsteroid (wich I also really like visually, the colour palette and contrasting shadows give this map a very striking look) utilize lots of cover, clever (and cruel) enemy placement, multiple passageways and height variation, but also leave lots of space for battlelords to move around and ambush you (it did happen several times in map 3). The worst levels like Jungle Hive are basically a big square (in this case with a pillar in the center of the map) with some sporadically placed cover and battlelords simply piling up on you which honestly don’t make the fights very exciting.

Some of the design decisions I don’t like on a principal level. One of those is secret allocation. Not only because I couldn’t find any of them, but also because as I found out later many of them (maps 1, 3, 5 and I think in map 4 you can get locked out of the secret?) are placed at the beginning of the map, making them unreachable past the entrance point. I’d say doing that is just bad manners since nobody can know that in advance. Secrets in the other levels are very, very hard to spot since you barely gave any hints.

Another one is heavy reliance on hitscan weapons since most of the time facing a battlelord with a hitscan weapon is not tense, it’s tedious. Hitscan weapons work great as a part of a strategy (like shotgunning a nasty battlelord while looking for a better spot to fire your heavy weapons or luring them into certain position), but when you’re left with nothing but chaingun or pistol the game slows waaaaay down. And there's now reliable way to know when that happens and you can't really precisely calculate your ammo to have at least a few rockets ready at all times.

I understand balancing must’ve been a tricky issue and you wanted the fights to last longer (hence you beefed up the battlelords), but certain situations lead to borderline tedium as you’re stuck in a shitty spot firing short chaingun or pistol bursts from behind a corner slowly burning through the large healthpool. Because of the way the game works this is literally the most boring thing ever: anytime you open fire you have to wait until the motherfucker calms down and stops shooting his fucking chaingun. Moments like this slow the game down to a halt. Especially if it’s an open arena (like Map 2 or 5).

Also there were a few instances of cheap traps: teleporters in Tiberius Madness that lead directly to Battlelords right in your face, battlelords on the upper level of Jungle Hive.

But you know what? Despite any shortcomings I think the episode has, I’d say it’s one of your better releases at least purely from gameplay perspective. At its best it’s a very tense cat and mouse game, tricking battlelords into your traps, planning routes, running and gunning, clinging to the last bits of health and ammo, at its worst you’re stuck tediously chipping battlelords large healthpool with a chaingun from behind a corner.

Next time you think of something really cool like this I hope you'll give the idea more time and thought to let it breathe and thrive so you could absolutely nail it down.

That Radar video is ought to teach you a very valuable lesson: if you don’t want your touchplates to get cheesed you should always, ALWAYS point them downwards.

On a side note you did make my heart jump a little since I have a map ready to be released with a very similar idea, but upon playing the episode I was relieved. You did beat me to it, so kudos!

Hunter Or Prey = Woodsteroid > Tiberius Madness > We Store Your Space > Assault On Memorial > Jungle Hive > Hall Of Battles

This post has been edited by Mister Sinister: 06 June 2022 - 05:58 PM

4

User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#11

One thing I mentioned to Sanek during the beta testing was how much I appreciated the security cameras in Tiberius Madness. Every room off the central hub had a unique wall texture, and you could often see those textures from the hub by just looking down the respective corridor.

What that means was, combined with the cameras in each area, you could form an extremely accurate mental map of the level without having to walk into the line of fire. You knew exactly what you were up against in each room, where the lord was located, and often a glimpse of any weapons they might be guarding, allowing you the opportunity to really strategize how you want to approach the level, and in what order. Rarely are Duke cameras that useful and I just wanted to show my appreciation.
4

User is offline   Sanek 

#12

@Mister Sinister, thank you so much for such a detailed review!



View PostMister Sinister, on 06 June 2022 - 05:41 PM, said:

Another really great level I think is Woodsteroid which is also the toughest one.

Thanks. I personally think that it's the highlight of the episode. It's also the only map that was planned well in advance (the other maps was made on-the-go), which gives a food for thoughts.
One tricky part is that the player would jump off the cliff when he used the steroids. It took me a while to realise that he stops running when a new steroids is picked up.

View PostMister Sinister, on 06 June 2022 - 05:41 PM, said:

but I would still point out that this concept would’ve greatly benefited from slightly more complex design

Don't understand wheter it means the visuals or the design as layout.

As far as visuals go, I think it turned out all right. The only things I dislike is that I didn't do enough with the edges of the maps, and level 4 I was worried a bit until I made it better with shadows and stuff.

View PostMister Sinister, on 06 June 2022 - 05:41 PM, said:

Secrets in the other levels are very, very hard to spot since you barely gave any hints.


Isn't it supposed to be secrets? Like, how would you know about any secrets in the original game.


View PostMister Sinister, on 06 June 2022 - 05:41 PM, said:

for example I found leftover acid in Junge Hive

It was actually made on purpose, so the player can't hide in these corners; it forces him to come out of there.

View PostMister Sinister, on 06 June 2022 - 05:41 PM, said:

Another one is heavy reliance on hitscan weapons

Yeah, I know it. There should be less chaingun ammo, but its' a tricky thing to balance since it also would hurt the vatiety.
The shotgun on another hand is a must. My strategy is always to use hitsan weapons when there's only one enemy to deal with.


So yeah, I understand all the criticisms, but the only thing I can say is that I'm just in a learning process of this concept and there's a lot of room for improvement.

Honestly, I'm kinda intrigued by this concept and I want to make of it in the future. I don't when or if i'll really continue, but If i'll do - I'll make the WIP thread so guys who's interested could give more specific advices. ;)
1

User is offline   ck3D 

#13

Can't know what Mister Sinister exactly meant by more complex design, but I was having a similar thought earlier whilst watching Radar's video in regards of the untapped potential of the idea here. I don't think it's about looks at all (I think when it comes to Build graphics I think you're long past the learning stages and know how to technically design anything you can think of), nor is it the 'arena style' of the level design per se either because the maps for the most part look like they function well (minus level two which to me looks a bit lacking in terms of scale, especially since the textures and decoration are very reminiscent of the camping lot in Weissensee which is a very open map with verticality; here feels like a 'boxed' version of the same aesthetics, whereas the other levels feel more original and, in my opinion, look better). I think it may be the episode format, actually, that undermines the whole idea in a way; it's tempting to imagine just one, big scale adventure based on strategic exploration featuring this concept (maybe think something Clear The Coast-styled, verticality included). With this abrupt succession of layouts and settings, there's only so much you can build up, whereas infiltrating say a base on an island, having to keep track of the enemy locations, hallways and whatnot would be sick. You could probably achieve it in the same amount of time it took you to make the maps here - could build everything disconnected and then assemble in Mapster then imagine transitions as one last step - you wouldn't have to overthink it (just make sure you shade walls as you go, to avoid the 'Doombox effect'). But then again I think the 'hit and run' approach here is also cool and a welcome approach. People are just inspired and pondering what if's. Have you thought of possibly re-using one of those abandoned maps of yours that were mostly complete, and articulating the gameplay in there around those .cons and ideas in lieu of traditional?

And yeah, 'as the author', you should angle your touchplates down - touchplate up may be OG but really sends the message 'I want you to be able to skip this if you want and know how to' to the player (or maybe you genuinely didn't know pointing touchplates down worked as a safety measure, that would be funny but I doubt it). Radar has dedicated hours of their life to showcasing the entirety of your Build body of work on the most mainstream video platform, and this openly is a 100% run so I don't know what not to respect. If anything you should rejoice that people like your work enough to approach it laterally, that's actually a good sign. 'As the author' your role is exactly to define what you want and don't want left open to interpretation at all but practically, directly in the work by making sure as fine detail as possible is right to you; words won't do it. In the case of touchplates, I know I consider whether or not I want every single one skippable as soon as I insert it and literally never have to worry about the player breaking my pots and pans.

Either way I definitely encourage you to keep pursuing your original vision in this instinctual direction that you're headed, it's what you should trust 100% (also in order not to underestimate it, which then can only show in the resulting work and it's a downward spiral from there). Doesn't matter one bit what anyone else is doing, in fact they're probably busy doing or trying to do exactly that too just on their own terms and in their own colors.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 07 June 2022 - 06:13 AM

3

#14

The episode format works just fine. By "complex design" I mean more complexity in layouts of the map and progression, more routes, height variations, a bit more complex enemy placement, traps, more subtle fights etc. When I'm designing a level I try to think of an interesting encounter or gameplay situation and then try to design the level around it, though most of the time this happens on the go.

As an example you could design an encounter like this: you enter a map and you see a central structure or a goal point with a switch guarded by 4 battlelords above your level, but to get there you need 1) get rid of them and 2) raise some steps. You are given insufficient amount of ammo, so you are forced to traverse and explore the map via cover and find a way to get to the goal and gear up. Those are two separate goals, which lead to branching pathways, where you'd come facing more Battlelords - let's say one of them guards some ammo and weapons and can be dealt by luring it in a trap or locking him out to safely grab the weapons, the other path leads to a switch that grants access to central point of the map (that switch is also guarded) - here you'd have to engage in a direct fight (the area of course is not simply a sqaure room, but it has nooks, verticality, cover and enough space for both the player and the battlelords to move and chase each other. The said switch lowers 3 of the 4 battlelords and raise platforms that lead you to your goal (which will provide cover in next encounter). The last one guards the switch, so you can't simply cheese through the last battle and forced to take the fight.
It all can be done in an arena-like map, I think, and this allows for build-up, exploration, progression and you could do it with windows, asymmetrical geometry, different height, cover, complex layout you name it. Like I said, the best levels of BattleDuke explore this type of design, the worst ones are confined within one boxy area.
It's such a shame that the thing that limits the level design the most is just how fucking stupid and inconsistent the Battlelord AI is. At least that's what was limiting to me when I was making a similar map.

As for the secretes, yeah, I get the intention and watching Radars vid I think some of the switches glitched out on me, but I still condemn placing secrets at the beginning of the level and then block players from backtracking.
Also I think the levels would also benefit from slightly more offbeat music choices, but that's a matter of taste.

This post has been edited by Mister Sinister: 07 June 2022 - 06:58 AM

5

User is offline   Merlijn 

#15

Honestly, I was also a bit skeptical when I read the premise, but it was a surprisingly fun challenge (for the most part)! Managed to get all kills on every map, didn't find one single secret though.
Woodsteroid and Hunter or prey are the thoughest maps and in the end also felt the most rewarding to conquer. The decision to beef up the battlelords ended up being the correct one, as it made them a much more serious threat and even pretty intimidating at first. Honestly in the first map I was wondering if you also tinkered with their speed and their path finding abilities, as they seemed much more efficient than usual. But I guess that's a by-product of their increased health plus a well designed arena (those sloped crates especially are a nice touch, providing cover while making sure the battlelords don't get stuck on scenery).

Another thing I liked is how each map required different strategies. In some maps taking out the stayput battlelords was the priority while in others (like Woodsteroid) it was the other way around. For me at least. The strategies I ultimately went with are very similar to those Quakis used. Tiberius Madness was probably my least favorite, because it was pretty easy to isolate each battlelord and take them out 1 by 1. And then it became more of a grind instead of an interesting challenge. It probably didn't help that the one that spawned in the beginning did get stuck in a corner.

My one major complaint would be that taking out the last remaining battlelord can be tedious, as I usually ran out of explosives at that point and had to resort to chaingun and shotgun (even pistol at one point). At that point the challenge is pretty much over and you're just waiting for the last bastard to finally die. Also it's possible to get soft-locked in Woodsteroid:
Spoiler


I have no complaints about the design, it's functional and makes good use of shadows and lightning. Woodsteroid was an interesting combo with its unique colors and striking long shadows. Jungle Hive reminded me of the 'duke is 10' episode for some reason (incidentally those maps were also made within 1 week).

Overall I'd say that this is a succesfull experiment, it might not appeal to everyone but I liked how it forced you to think outside the box, and makes you use every weapon and item at your disposal (never knew the holoduke could be THAT useful). Finding a proper strategy and reaching the end after several deaths felt very gratifying. B)

This post has been edited by Merlijn: 07 June 2022 - 10:53 AM

3

User is online   quakis 

#16

View PostMerlijn, on 07 June 2022 - 10:50 AM, said:

Spoiler

Spoiler

1

User is offline   Sanek 

#17

View Postck3D, on 07 June 2022 - 05:55 AM, said:

Can't know what Mister Sinister exactly meant by more complex design, but I was having a similar thought earlier whilst watching Radar's video in regards of the untapped potential of the idea here. I don't think it's about looks at all (I think when it comes to Build graphics I think you're long past the learning stages and know how to technically design anything you can think of), nor is it the 'arena style' of the level design per se either because the maps for the most part look like they function well (minus level two which to me looks a bit lacking in terms of scale, especially since the textures and decoration are very reminiscent of the camping lot in Weissensee which is a very open map with verticality; here feels like a 'boxed' version of the same aesthetics, whereas the other levels feel more original and, in my opinion, look better). I think it may be the episode format, actually, that undermines the whole idea in a way; it's tempting to imagine just one, big scale adventure based on strategic exploration featuring this concept (maybe think something Clear The Coast-styled, verticality included). With this abrupt succession of layouts and settings, there's only so much you can build up, whereas infiltrating say a base on an island, having to keep track of the enemy locations, hallways and whatnot would be sick. You could probably achieve it in the same amount of time it took you to make the maps here - could build everything disconnected and then assemble in Mapster then imagine transitions as one last step - you wouldn't have to overthink it (just make sure you shade walls as you go, to avoid the 'Doombox effect'). But then again I think the 'hit and run' approach here is also cool and a welcome approach. People are just inspired and pondering what if's. Have you thought of possibly re-using one of those abandoned maps of yours that were mostly complete, and articulating the gameplay in there around those .cons and ideas in lieu of traditional?


I can make longer levels if I want to, but one of the reasons I made this episode is because the whole concept revolves around making the best use of the small enviroment that you got; otherwise it'll just be a walk between the arenas, though I understand that something great can be achived there.

I also like to make more levels because I can explore more themes that wanted to tap in.

Yes, I have the unfinished content that I can use, through it'll mostly belong to the opening parts of the levels.

As for MAP 2, I never thought about Weissensee; I wanted to make a graveyard first, and my closest source of inspiration I could think of is some old 1997 map; then I caught some random DNF 2013 let's play on youtube and decided to make a "memorial" after the ending cutscene with a donkey.


What Mister Sinister said sounds more like a map I would eventually make.

@quakis I tried to make the jumps there as far away as possible, but i doubt that a player would desperately try to jump there if it can't be done easily.


Thanks for review Merlijn!
3

User is offline   ck3D 

#18

View PostSanek, on 08 June 2022 - 01:23 PM, said:

I can make longer levels if I want to, but one of the reasons I made this episode is because the whole concept revolves around making the best use of the small enviroment that you got; otherwise it'll just be a walk between the arenas, though I understand that something great can be achived there.

I also like to make more levels because I can explore more themes that wanted to tap in.

Yes, I have the unfinished content that I can use, through it'll mostly belong to the opening parts of the levels.

As for MAP 2, I never thought about Weissensee; I wanted to make a graveyard first, and my closest source of inspiration I could think of is some old 1997 map; then I caught some random DNF 2013 let's play on youtube and decided to make a "memorial" after the ending cutscene with a donkey.


Sounds good to me, especially that the way I see it, you're basically understanding and adapting to your attention span and instead of fighting the limits of your focus to try and fit into imaginary standards, you're acknowledging them and thus turning them into a strength. You're not letting artificial boredom get in the way anymore and since consequentially you're only doing what's fun to you, you can naturally concentrate on it and do it well (instead of trying to do tons of little things pseudo well and not even feeling satisfied on a personal level in the end). Individuals all have a different understanding, reading and structuring of time, which matters a lot in literally everything we do, but no condition (longer or shorter attention spans) is a blessing or a curse, what matters is going with the right format, usually whatever feels natural. I always wished to see you embrace 'natural' more in your mapping, you always did so more and more along the years but here in particular I can sense something has clicked, it's great to see it and I hope you keep going that way.

Level 2 really reminded me of the camping lot in Weissensee yeah (may be the colored chairs and stage and abundance of grass hills), but also of the carousel section in Roch 1, I liked the sky texture pick too because it reminded me of some old user map releases and was a good throwback. I wasn't saying you had intentionally ripped those off, haha. Sometimes influences are subconscious. I want to give this a try soon!
3

User is offline   Sanek 

#19

View Postck3D, on 09 June 2022 - 01:35 AM, said:

Sounds good to me, especially that the way I see it, you're basically understanding and adapting to your attention span and instead of fighting the limits of your focus to try and fit into imaginary standards, you're acknowledging them and thus turning them into a strength. You're not letting artificial boredom get in the way anymore and since consequentially you're only doing what's fun to you, you can naturally concentrate on it and do it well (instead of trying to do tons of little things pseudo well and not even feeling satisfied on a personal level in the end). Individuals all have a different understanding, reading and structuring of time, which matters a lot in literally everything we do, but no condition (longer or shorter attention spans) is a blessing or a curse, what matters is going with the right format, usually whatever feels natural. I always wished to see you embrace 'natural' more in your mapping, you always did so more and more along the years but here in particular I can sense something has clicked, it's great to see it and I hope you keep going that way.



Well yes, that's exactly what I'm doing right now (even if i don't want to admit it). The reason I handled my previous project to another mapper is because I had a great idea and worked on it while I felt inspired, then dropped it since the scope of the map becomes too intimidating and I can't tie it together anymore (unless I force myself and make a lesser map as a result). That's why I turned to a smaller maps (like Dark Seed and Dark Station).

The only 2 "big" maps that I breezed through was the Bridge map and Winterfall.

While working on BattleDuke felt a genuine inspiration at every step of the way. It's not a top-notch mapping per se, but since I learned something in my 20+ years of map-making I think achieved a good results while doing to what I'm doing. The arena format really looks like a perfect match for me!
2

User is offline   Sanek 

#20

CGS now host the episode, can be downloaded here:

http://www.scent-88....ttle/battle.php
0

User is offline   Aleks 

#21

I've started playing the episode 2 days ago, was planning on waiting until I finish the whole thing before posting my thoughts, but since the write-ups for each level are getting kinda lengthy, I think it might be more suitable to divide it into 2 posts - so here's my impression of the first 3 levels.


We Store Your Space

Spoiler


Attack on the Monument

Spoiler


Woodsteroid

Spoiler


Looking forward to what's next!
2

User is offline   Sanek 

#22

Thank you for playing, Aleks!

Level 1 was more of a testing ground than anything else, which ended being a good introduction to the episode.

The slopes was really a smart move that could be used a lot. I also wanted to have teleports as a permanent feature in maps, but the lords is not that smart, unfortunately.

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There are some parts I didn't get about the progression, for example, what the 4 button code activated, also the teleport at the monolith seemed to have a too long range, which ended up in often being randomly thrown in the other part of the map and into the air.


The last 4 buttons turn off the forcefield with a nukebutton. And yeah, I agree that I didn't execute that teleport thing right.

And goddamit, I didn't even think about Weissensee while making it!

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Looking forward to what's next!


Since you find the super shrinker, the next level will be the easiest level ever! :D

And since you're writing about DM so much, here's a quote from the txt file that you probably didn't noticed:

"You're ALLOWED to make a MULTIPLAYER versions of these maps, but don't forget to mention the author and episode you lifted it from"


So feel free to modify the maps the way you want if you want to play it online!

This post has been edited by Sanek: 15 June 2022 - 03:04 PM

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User is offline   Aleks 

#23

View PostSanek, on 15 June 2022 - 03:03 PM, said:

And since you're writing about DM so much, here's a quote from the txt file that you probably didn't noticed:

"You're ALLOWED to make a MULTIPLAYER versions of these maps, but don't forget to mention the author and episode you lifted it from"

So feel free to modify the maps the way you want if you want to play it online!

Hehe, in fact I did notice that in the txt file, which is probably one of the reasons I started mentioning it ;) I don't really play online anymore though!

Anyway, finished the episode, so here's the sum up for the 4 remaining levels (also just noticed how terribly I fucked the name of the 2nd level in my previous post...).

Tiberius Madness
Spoiler



Jungle Hive
Spoiler



Hunter or Prey
Spoiler


Halls of Battles
Spoiler



Overall, a very good episode, once again congrats on the release! The presume kinda reminded me of The Conundrum really, as in both are based on some concept made in a bunch of short maps and require some grinding/trial and error, while also being very difficult and challenging. The decision to increase their HP was a good one, since it made them A LOT more dangerous, also noticed they tend to perform some evasive moves from the rockets while they're charging at you, so it was best to hit them when they were either shooting their chaingun or - preferably - firing the mortars (or even better if stuck in a corner). My personal ranking of the levels would be something like this: Woodsteroid -> Hunter or Prey -> Jungle Hive -> We Store Your Space -> Tiberius Madness -> Assault on Memorial -> Halls of Battles.
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User is offline   Sanek 

#24

Thanks for playing it all, Aleks!

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Tiberius Madness


I made every level pistol-start finishable, try it like this next time! The maps have plenty of re-play value anyway.

I wanted to have more 'walkers' here btw, but I had to calculate everything so you'll have just enough ammo to deal with all enemies if you're pistol-starting.

Just realised I should've trigger at leat one fcker if you find the secret place. Damn.

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I have to agree with Quakis the slopes were a bit annoying.


I guess you'll hate the idea that I initially wanted to make sloped areas much, much bigger (like the size of this map bigger). I made this map precisely bc of the slopes, since you wanted to make the layout itself as a sort of challenge.

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Halls of Battles


It's easier than the previous levels, but not a walk in the park either. However, for a veteran player it's all up to how long it takes you to realise that you shouldn't waste your ammo on regular enemies, instead using a shrinker on them.

I initially wanted to make this level a bit larger, when you have sort of a build-up to final battle, afte bunch of regular enemies coming your way (so sort like The Abyss). However, I was worried that a player would be tired of 6 maps already, so I made it this short.



In your previous post you said this about Woodsteroid:

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design here - both for quite unusual texture combinations resulting in a fairly "Star Trek"/"2001 Space Odyssey" kind of scenery


I watched both (2001 and Star Trek TOS, TAS, season 1 of TNG and all the movies), but I don't understand the connection here. :unsure:
1

User is offline   Jim 

#25

Are there plans for a regular version of the maps?
1

User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#26

View PostJim, on 19 June 2022 - 09:13 AM, said:

Are there plans for a regular version of the maps?


Remove Game.con and user.con and just load them as user maps.

Still recommend the intended way, however. They will be quite easy with normal lords.

This post has been edited by Ninety-Six: 19 June 2022 - 11:01 AM

2

User is offline   Sanek 

#27

View PostJim, on 19 June 2022 - 09:13 AM, said:

Are there plans for a regular version of the maps?


Nope. I'll just repeat what Ninety-Six said. :lol:
0

User is offline   ck3D 

#28

Mikko's review: https://msdn.duke4.n...vbattleduke.php
1

User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#29

View Postck3D, on 19 June 2022 - 11:37 PM, said:



He reviewed it exactly how I thought he would (Note: I am not taking a dig at him. He just tends to wear his opinions on this side of Dukedom on his sleeve).
0

User is offline   ck3D 

#30

Yeah, it's called style. I had never seen it before, but just thoroughly enjoyed his review of the Alien Invasion game (it's linked to in the review), that one too is exactly what you would expect. I respect Mikko's dedication to the community throughout all those years so much. I also think it's pretty funny that in between MSDN and CGS currently being the only two websites still updated with user maps and reviews on a frequent-to-very-frequent basis, that means that crucial part of the community right now is basically ran by two vikings. True to their Scandinavian heritage, strong they are standing.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 20 June 2022 - 04:17 AM

3

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