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Hollywood Holocaust - Street part - Remake in 1996 classic render  "MAPe1l1a's remake in classical render and fully finished"

User is offline   Bruno 

#1

Hi Duke4 community,

By the past, I shared with you a HRP + Dukeplus MAP titled "mape1l1a.map". It was supposed to be a remake of the outdoor part of Hollywood Holocaust map with a huge extension and some liberties taken to make the whole thing more "real". For those who remember, it was a huge framerate killer... (this unplayable map is still available here : http://www.scent-88....M/map1/map1.php)

So, I decided early 2022 to "recreate" this map in the 1996 classical render without all Dukeplus mechanics (So the ladders are no longer functional), polymer point lights nor HRP models in order to be able to have a real enjoyable oldschool gaming experience.

Therefore, I added lots of sprite work, shadows, easter eggs, secrets area (some require you to engage several hidden switches, others require a little imagination or reflection. But there are clues scattered to help you find these secrets).

Beyond a shooting game and the classic search for access cards, the interest of the map relies rather in the search for the various alternative paths available to reach the nuke button (these alternative path did not exist in the previous version of the map of 2012). I've also tried to make as many things as possible interactive (especially in the apartment), even if it's still very limited.
I also added difficulty settings. "Come get some" could be very challenging (in my opinion).

Initially, it was a remake of the outdoor part of the "Hollywood Holocaust" map. I admit that it is very difficult to recognize the original map due to the important extension of the street.

Now this map is fully playable in the classic DUKE3D (eduke32). I hope you will like it. ;)

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Attached File(s)


19

User is offline   Paul B 

#2

View PostBruno, on 16 May 2022 - 11:50 AM, said:

Hi Duke4 community,

By the past, I shared with you a HRP + Dukeplus MAP titled "mape1l1a.map". It was supposed to be a remake of the outdoor part of Hollywood Holocaust map with a huge extension and some liberties taken to make the whole thing more "real". For those who remember, it was a huge framerate killer... (this unplayable map is still available here : http://www.scent-88....M/map1/map1.php)

So, I decided early 2022 to "recreate" this map in the 1996 classical render without all Dukeplus mechanics (So the ladders are no longer functional), polymer point lights nor HRP models in order to be able to have a real enjoyable oldschool gaming experience.

Therefore, I added lots of sprite work, shadows, easter eggs, secrets area (some require you to engage several hidden switches, others require a little imagination or reflection. But there are clues scattered to help you find these secrets).

Beyond a shooting game and the classic search for access cards, the interest of the map relies rather in the search for the various alternative paths available to reach the nuke button (these alternative path did not exist in the previous version of the map of 2012). I've also tried to make as many things as possible interactive (especially in the apartment), even if it's still very limited.
I also added difficulty settings. "Come get some" could be very challenging (in my opinion).

Initially, it was a remake of the outdoor part of the "Hollywood Holocaust" map. I admit that it is very difficult to recognize the original map due to the important extension of the street.

Now this map is fully playable in the classic DUKE3D (eduke32). I hope you will like it. ;)



One of the best highly detailed levels the World has ever seen. There's so much detail in this map I have a tough time paying attention to the AI and it gets me killed. The original map was a masterpiece in detail and design. For those who couldn't appreciate the original release this will definitely not disappoint.

Lots of work put into this map and it's a great showcase of how a wonderful a vision and creative mind can be put on display.

Thanks for sharing this labor of love looking forward to the sequel. "Red Light District" =)

This post has been edited by Paul B: 16 May 2022 - 01:22 PM

1

User is offline   Mark 

#3

I remember the original. Looked awesome but like the author said, framerate sucked. Those 2-300 explosions in the building didn't help. :P
I messed around with trying to optimise it back then. Reducing size of the humongous polymer spotlights and converting some to point lights. Tried blocking off some areas with tall walls so less was visible all at once. Dividing large sectors. Trimmed the number of explosions by about 70 percent. The usual stuff. I had minor success but I gave up. Now 8-9 years later, maybe more players have the hardware to run it. So try the new and the old version.

This post has been edited by Mark: 16 May 2022 - 02:28 PM

2

User is offline   ck3D 

#4

Architecture looks really good and from the screenshots you have a very interesting style. I can only really keep up with classic compatible releases and so always appreciate those technically, but also the aesthetics in general, something about that classic Duke 3D feel vs. arguably superficial 'enhancements' (but that's me). Looking forward to finding the time to play this, thanks for sharing and I (a bit selfishly) hope you make more maps in that style in the future, could see you come up with great, original material (but in fact and like you're saying yourself, those screenshots already are full of that despite E1L1 not being new per se, it's actually pretty remarkable how you well you articulated it around the base style, as that's a science in itself).

This post has been edited by ck3D: 16 May 2022 - 04:06 PM

1

User is offline   Bruno 

#5

View PostMark, on 16 May 2022 - 02:25 PM, said:

I remember the original. Looked awesome but like the author said, framerate sucked. Those 2-300 explosions in the building didn't help. :P
I messed around with trying to optimise it back then. Reducing size of the humongous polymer spotlights and converting some to point lights. Tried blocking off some areas with tall walls so less was visible all at once. Dividing large sectors. Trimmed the number of explosions by about 70 percent. The usual stuff. I had minor success but I gave up. Now 8-9 years later, maybe more players have the hardware to run it. So try the new and the old version.


Yep ! The one from 2012 was unplayable...
However, I really like the polymer render and all the new features added by mods like Dukeplus.

But, well, the fact that many Duke Nukem fans cannot play with HRP maps or, usually, don't use mods nor HRP render, led me to this "classic render" project. And it was more challenging in mapster32 ! I really like the spritework.

So, ultimately, I prefer my new oldschool classic 2,5D version, fully playable with eduke32 without any framerate issue, than the one from 2012 that includes HRP and Duke Plus. Indeed, considering the fact that sprite works doesn't kill so much framerate, I tried to push to the limit all details : new secret area (some including several switchs hidden in the map), new design (I added Duke Burger decoration, some new things like vehicles, new toproof that could you reach, I change the elevator shaft, I add details on some sectors already existing, shadows, lights sectors, ...), new effects (Exploding bus, collapsing building, new viewscreens, ...) and above all, new alternative paths to reach the end of the map and some funny easter eggs. Now you can take a look to the all street without any issue and the 2-300 explosions (that didn't exist in the previous 2012 version) didn't cause any slowness in game. Of course, as I delete all dukeplus and HRP features compatibility, some features have been removed and replaced by others (duke plus fuses for exemple)

According to me, the 2012 version therefore becomes a draft now ! haha

You should try this new version dude ! :)
1

User is offline   Mark 

#6

I DL'ed it but haven't played it yet. I'm busy working on my stuff. I'm sure I'll like it after seeing the screenshots.
2

User is offline   Bruno 

#7

View PostPaul B, on 16 May 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

One of the best highly detailed levels the World has ever seen. There's so much detail in this map I have a tough time paying attention to the AI and it gets me killed. The original map was a masterpiece in detail and design. For those who couldn't appreciate the original release this will definitely not disappoint.

Lots of work put into this map and it's a great showcase of how a wonderful a vision and creative mind can be put on display.

Thanks for sharing this labor of love looking forward to the sequel. "Red Light District" =)


Thank you so much dude! It means a lot for me. I did not count the time spent on it but I do not even dare to imagine!

This new version is far more detailed than the HRP/Duke Plus draft map from 2012. You should even forget the previous map and keep this one in mind, if you let me say.

Indeed, I really love making these new sprite works with the classic render in mapster (requires more time and thinking than mapping with HRP, in my opinion, depend on what you're searching for) and it is really challenging sometimes. Moreover, it requires patience and it is very soothing after a long day at work. So, I like it!

Considering these facts, I should find time now to finish the next map (inside the cinema), I already started this map by the past but life didn't let me time for myself... I will work on the next one this week and next months though between personnal life and professional life.:)
2

User is offline   Merlijn 

#8

Downloading - the screenshots look really good!
2

User is offline   NNC 

#9

If the trend continues, we can create a full episode of Hollywood Holocaust copycats.
1

User is offline   ck3D 

#10

Video playthrough by Radar:


2

User is offline   Bruno 

#11

View Postck3D, on 18 May 2022 - 03:02 AM, said:

Video playthrough by Radar:





Very great video !

I checked it quickly. I will rewatch his playthrough after my daywork.

Maybe I missed some part of the video. By, if I'm not wrong, he missed the red and yellow keycards areas, (and so he didn't use the viewscreen for the DNF 2001 easter eggs) and the fact he didn't show the "boobs secret" (LOL) vent area.

I will also try to do a video or a "step by step" by myself to show some other things.

Great share ! thank you mate !
2

User is offline   Radar 

  • King of SOVL

#12

Since 100%-ing the secrets allowed me to finish the map early, I didn't bother looking for those areas. Perhaps I should have progressed the entire map normally in addition to finding the secrets. I am considering re-recording the ending. I save my progress, so it would be simple to seamlessly append a complete playthrough towards the end.
2

User is offline   Bruno 

#13

@Radar your playthrough is awesome and nice battle too.
Indeed, in fact the aim of these special secrets are to let you reach the end without any battle or less challenge.
I thought it would have been more complex for everyone to find some secrets (especially the one using yellow ducks haha)

Well done mate for the playthrough and your video.

This post has been edited by Bruno: 18 May 2022 - 06:27 AM

1

User is offline   Bruno 

#14

Hi everyone

I've just fixed two minor bugs in the map (so find attached a new Zip folder) :
- Add Lo-tag 21 for the secret vent door in the parking,
- Block only one side, at the bridge, next to the fire truck to let the drone (coming from the tunnel) entering player sectors for battle,

Not a bug, I add Lot-tag 32767 and a Shrinker Ammo in the parking vent after finding the "Boobs Secret", next to the "orgy chamber".

I had not found these bugs during my multiple tests (perhaps inadvertently). It is thanks to "Radar duker" youtube video that I was able to see these problems. Thank you Radar ! :)

Attached File(s)



This post has been edited by Bruno: 19 May 2022 - 08:53 AM

3

User is offline   ck3D 

#15

MSDN review by Mikko: https://msdn.duke4.n...caustremake.php (maybe get in touch with him if it turns out he's hosting the wrong version of the file)

This post has been edited by ck3D: 19 May 2022 - 09:35 AM

3

User is offline   Bruno 

#16

View Postck3D, on 19 May 2022 - 09:35 AM, said:

MSDN review by Mikko: https://msdn.duke4.n...caustremake.php (maybe get in touch with him if it turns out he's hosting the wrong version of the file)


Yessss ! Thank you mate. I send him an email with the new version and to talk about this review. I really like what he wrote, positive as negative points. That's great ! thank you for the share of this review :)
3

User is offline   Merlijn 

#17

Great piece of work! I pretty much agree with Mikko's review, the level of detail is amazing. It's barely recognizable as HH except for the general layout, but that's a good thing. I especially enjoyed all the alternate routes and secret area's that could be reached by performing some parkour. It reminded me a bit of 'Poison heart' by ck3d. I found 7 secrets, but didn't find all the duck hunt switches yet(cool idea btw!). As for gameplay, the fight near the construction site was my favorite. That one got pretty intense but the streets are spacious enough to make it a fun fight. Also liked the intensity of the parking area, and the fact that you need to use your night vision in combat (not many maps use it so it's always nice to see someone implementing it properly).

The invisible walls are a tad annoying in the beginning area, since it took me a while to realize which areas were off limits. On the other hand I get why they're there, and it can be quite difficult to balance a realistic looking city while still having to keep a contained gameplay area. But it's a good thing to keep in mind for your next map, to make the boundaries of the gameplay area more obvious.

Overall a very satisfying map with tons of detail, solid gameplay and some nice touches of humour as well. :)

This post has been edited by Merlijn: 24 May 2022 - 10:16 AM

3

User is offline   Bruno 

#18

View PostMerlijn, on 24 May 2022 - 10:15 AM, said:

Great piece of work! I pretty much agree with Mikko's review, the level of detail is amazing. It's barely recognizable as HH except for the general layout, but that's a good thing. I especially enjoyed all the alternate routes and secret area's that could be reached by performing some parkour. It reminded me a bit of 'Poison heart' by ck3d. I found 7 secrets, but didn't find all the duck hunt switches yet(cool idea btw!). As for gameplay, the fight near the construction site was my favorite. That one got pretty intense but the streets are spacious enough to make it a fun fight. Also liked the intensity of the parking area, and the fact that you need to use your night vision in combat (not many maps use it so it's always nice to see someone implementing it properly).

The invisible walls are a tad annoying in the beginning area, since it took me a while to realize which areas were off limits. On the other hand I get why they're there, and it can be quite difficult to balance a realistic looking city while still having to keep a contained gameplay area. But it's a good thing to keep in mind for your next map, to make the boundaries of the gameplay area more obvious.

Overall a very satisfying map with tons of detail, solid gameplay and some nice touches of humour as well. :)


Thank you very much mate ! I'm glad you gave it a try. Coming from someone with more experience in level-design (shaky ground episode remains one of the best user-release for duke3d in my opinion), positive and negative feedbacks are valuable.

Concerning the invisible walls, it was indeed a real difficulty (you're right, maybe I have to change this issue if I can) : To keep the visibility on the city while letting the enemies come from the two tunnels and to let the bus to arrive with explosion (the one next to the construction site), and at the same time prevent the player from access areas that would only serve to unnecessarily enlarge the playing area... I really wanted this effect of enemies coming from dark tunnels (whether it's the explosive drones from the tunnel located after the bridge, or the huge amount of enemy coming from the tunnel next to the construction site). Moreover, the bus needs, for realism, space to circulate with its explosion effect...

I'll think about tweaking this when I will finish the sequel map (in the theater/cinema). Maybe I will release a 2-map package if time allows me...

About the fight near the construction site (huge enemis coming from the tunnel : protector drone, lizard, octabrain, ...), I tried to create a combat as in Serious Sam : Back up while shooting! All the way back haha ! That's why I also respawned some ammo on the street further back when you're backing up.

Night vision are necessary in all cases : If you reach the end on the normal way, you must fight in the dark parking (night vision). If you reach the end with secrets, you need clues by reading hidden messages (night vision again).
2

User is offline   Aleks 

#19

Played it and absolutely loved it! Though it's probably a map that requires some acquired taste to fully appreciate. But let's start from the beginning - or from the negative aspects.

The first few minutes were a bit overwhelming to be honest. There's a lot of troopers attacking you from everywhere and respawning behind you/in the darkness where you can't clearly see them, which makes these fights at the beginning a bit frustrating, especially with a lot of stuff restricting your movement and lots of steam to burn you. It took me a while (actually by the time I got the blue keycard) before I really started feeling like I'm getting something done there. It was a bit difficult to really grasp the navigation, the actual extents of the map (with invisible walls blocking significant parts of the city) and what is going on at all there. Another thing I disliked were the constant steam sprites combined with darkness and elevation changes that made traversing the vents particularly painful. Also there's some cases of either spriteworks getting in the way or enemies getting entrapped in the spriteworks (I've had a commander stuck inside that long spritework vent on the side of the blue building). Now if these might sound like quite heavy criticisms, imagine how much I liked all the other aspects of the map that I pretty much can turn a blind eye over all of that! :D

First thing, design. This is absolutelly beautiful, from the level of details and how meticulously it is placed, through the complex sprite structures and intricate shadows, to how cohesive it all looks like, capturing the feeling of original Duke 3D, but also looking like a modern game. The sense of grandness of the scale is there, the city feels really immersive and the architecture is particularly well done. I really liked all the vents and air conditioners or all the other structural details on the rooftops and on the walls of the buildings, besides looking great it was also nice to platform over them. Using the "circular table" sprite for the shadow blend under the street lights was a brilliant idea, for a moment I just stood there trying to figure out how you managed to pull out such a smooth lighting, amazing! The apartment with all it's interactivity was mindblowing - almost every cupboard was openable and hid something inside, you could use the refridgerator and turn on/off the washing machine, the TV, the speakers... Wow! Another of my favourite little designs was the crane - it was all the way outside of the player area, but gladly you made it bright enough to serve as a focal point and fully showcase it's detailed design, it looks like a model. Nice touch with the round catwalk around the crane cabin too.

Now the gameplay. I admit I got fucked by the explosions on the street level a few times, but besides the confusing beginning and some monsters respawning too much "in your face", it was very good. My favourite parts were the parking lot and yellow key/construction site attack, as Merlijn pointed out already, but also the intense highway battle with the tanks - placing them behind the invisible walls made them a lot more dangerous since you can't just cheap them with autodestruct button, and standing behind the 2 attacking forces from both sides doesn't make Duke last too long, so it's quite a challenging battle, but also worth it since there's probably the only location of an RPG. I didn't use NVG that much while clearing the parking at first (didn't even realised I already had them at this point), but I found it particularly cool that all the monsters there (besides the commanders that make the taunting noises anyway) had glowing red eyes, but then also you were never sure whether it's just a pig cop, a tank or... a Battlelord :D I mostly lured the stuff outside while clearing that part. Then used the NVG for the 2nd Battlelord that was surrounded by troopers, which made it all the more fun. As for the construction site attack wave, the street behind you was long enough so I could just back out and keep shooting RPG at whatever was coming my way, which left only the drones alive.

And finally, my favourite thing about this map - all the secrets, Easter eggs and alternative paths. It seems like you really put a lot of heart and effort into this map to make it more than just another forgettable 30 minutes of shooting aliens in a cool location, which I wholeheartedly appreciate! The jokes landed really well, I think I found most of them and they are a nice mix of both contemporary stuff (DNF 2001 leak), classical Duke stuff (sexual innuendos and all that little stuff like a tampons machine in a backalley) and tributes to the community and 25+ years of its legacy (from DN IP Gearbox box to the Shelly's arm in a backalley). Managed to found all the secrets as well, although some were very difficult, I don't think they were particularly unfair. Especially the ducks deserve some praise - they required just the right amount of exploration to find and were nicely spread around the map, not requiring going too far out of the way - and the reward was worth it too! The largest difficulties for me were with the "speedrun secret" and "boobs secret". I've located them both before, but then getting inside was a pain in the ass. I've probably tried pressing/shooting every boobs in the map (and there's plenty!) but it took me a while before I figured out
Spoiler


As for the speedrun secret, not sure if there was any hint, but I just went the brute force way and tried looking everywhere for it (also tried another playthrough to see how fast I can finish by using this secret, took me 1:30). The final secret I found was the one with steroids in the corner, was expecting something intricate again then randomly walked there :P

In conclusion, this is one of these levels that perfectly clicked with me, despite the trouble at the beginning. You should be proud of this one, Bruno, it's really quite an achievement to make something so complex and convey the intended feeling in the players!
1

User is offline   Bruno 

#20

View PostAleks, on 31 May 2022 - 05:38 AM, said:

The first few minutes were a bit overwhelming to be honest. There's a lot of troopers attacking you from everywhere and respawning behind you/in the darkness where you can't clearly see them, which makes these fights at the beginning a bit frustrating, especially with a lot of stuff restricting your movement and lots of steam to burn you. It took me a while (actually by the time I got the blue keycard) before I really started feeling like I'm getting something done there. It was a bit difficult to really grasp the navigation, the actual extents of the map (with invisible walls blocking significant parts of the city) and what is going on at all there. Another thing I disliked were the constant steam sprites combined with darkness and elevation changes that made traversing the vents particularly painful. Also there's some cases of either spriteworks getting in the way or enemies getting entrapped in the spriteworks (I've had a commander stuck inside that long spritework vent on the side of the blue building). Now if these might sound like quite heavy criticisms, imagine how much I liked all the other aspects of the map that I pretty much can turn a blind eye over all of that! :D


First, thank you very much for this great review ! Glad you enjoy this map so much. I started working on the sequel map, the one inside the theater. I hope to create a map as enjoyable as this one.

It is always very interesting to have positive and negative reviews (above all, the negative one). So thank you for the positive review, I cannot say more ! Enjoy it as much as you can.

I assume this map is very hard on "Come Get Some" skill. For the story : Before starting this HRP / Dukeplus map conversion to a classic render map project and adding all these stuffs and spriteworks, I was thinking about making a very hard tactical Hollywood Holocaust version as they did in Plutonia Final Doom for the entryway level (lengendary map 32 "Go2it"), including some battelord here and here, lots of Pigcop tank, commanders, drone, tricks, etc. Out of sheer laziness, I started to make this using my HRP/Dukeplus old version map (the one unplayable due to low framerate), just by doing a simple classic render conversion. And then I changed my mind, I told myself that it had to remain very difficult but without too much abuse in terms of enemis amount... While keeping this aspect with Serious Sam Backward shooting and many enemies compared to the original Hollywood Holocaust from Duke3d. And, indeed, as you pointed, I never wanted to finish this map in mapster32. A day, after the working day, I added things here and here. the next day, I wanted to come back to it to add things. The next-next day, again, still things to improve, to add. Then, another day, the speedrun secret. A week after all that, why not a duck hunt secret ? I wanted this map to be perfect for me. I'm far from Pascal Roch's maps or the latest episodes recently released (shaky ground, duke hard, duke eternity, etc...) but I think it's fun enough (I think, just my opinion). The only thing that pissed me off is that wall limits in mapster32... That end with the nukebutton is so dumb...
About vent section : Maybe I should delete some steams, what do you think ? Because, in the future, I plan to release a ZIP archive including this map and the sequel map I'm working on. And, the invisible wall is an issue I have to work on (Though, I want to keep the visual on street and I don't want to enlarge the playable area, so maybe I should add some blocked grids... I don't know at the moment how to correct this level design error... Moreover, I reach the wall limit. So, I cannot create other sectors or red walls. That is a reason about the fact you don't have the cinema in the map and the end is a bit "raw" just with this nuke button came out of nowhere...). The same about spriteworks, maybe I have to check it. I didn't have this issue when I check the level several times.
Also, about the fact you didn't getting into something done, at the beggining of the level, yep. I tried to add some arrow sign, "danger" sprite, "detour" sprite ; I thought that the player will be careful about these clues. The same for the secret, I add hidden message in the dark, I think nobody find these haha ! Whatever ! thank you for these negative points that will help me a lot ! I will try to correct these things. :)
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