[Ninety-Six]

I'm sure some of us know by now, but there's a kickstarter going around for the development of a documentary spanning the entirety of the FPS genre.

https://www.kickstar...tary?ref=88k0ep

The trailer looks sweet and the splash image is awesome. I've kind of made a game out of trying to figure out what everything is:



Pig Cops are accounted for, as they should be.


Anyway, this looks like it will be a hell of a lot more respectful than a certain other documentary series that decided to piss all over every game that came between Doom and Half-Life. I'm seeing plenty of series in here that do not get talked about enough in regards to the evolution of the genre, so I do have some hopes for this one.

[DisgustedGrunt]

This is what Ready Player One should have been.

(for some reason i couldn't get the image to display, so i had to download it and upload it to imgur)

[# 1 duke nukem spanish fan]

I dont know. Maybe the talk about the "sexism" part. All do knowing more about Duke 3d development seems cool. There is not so much information about its development compare to Doom Or Duke Nukem Forever

[Ninety-Six]

I dunno, the trailer seems to imply it has a lot of respect for DN3D. It uses a lot of Duke quotes throughout the whole thing, and it pairs footage of the game alongside other games with no separation or stigmatization. It even has some DN3D developers on board with the project already.

I'm not seeing the typical stink of a political lens around it, at least not yet. It could still happen, but at least judging from the trailer and what's on the kickstarter page, it seems to hold the game in a fair regard relative to the others. The lowest (and therefore most common) tier is even named after him. It doesn't get as much screentime as Doom, which is perfectly fair. I like DN3D more but I wouldn't argue it was more important. But it does still get a good chunk of screentime anyway, more than even some other big FPSes out there.


Hell, the footage of the game actually avoids showing off the only parts the public consciousness remembers (the strip club and porn theater), instead opting for scenes of Stadium or kicking a Pig Cop to death. I dunno, altogether it looks like they are prepared to give DN3D the respect it deserves, no more and no less.


I could be completely wrong about this, of course, but initial signs are promising at least. It seems like they're more interested in talking about the game's actual contributions to the genre, for once. Functional mirrors, interactable objects in the environment, semi-believable locations, scripted sequences. There is stuff to talk about, especially since in far too many cases Half-Life gets the credit for a lot of these despite DN3D doing a lot of them two whole years before HL. It's been a constant frustration for me, and I love Half-Life.


Only time will tell, but if this will truly celebrate what Duke and Shadow Warrior did instead of condemning them, it will be worth the wait.

[DNSKILL5]

While this sounds interesting and the trailer shows a lot of awesome footage from games you wouldn't expect them to cover; the trailer doesn't really show off any of their documentary skills. Here's hoping they can make this documentary factual, informational, unbiased, and entertaining all at the same time.

[Ninety-Six]

Gerolf, on 30 June 2021 - 02:13 PM, said:

While this sounds interesting and the trailer shows a lot of awesome footage from games you wouldn't expect them to cover; the trailer doesn't really show off any of their documentary skills. Here's hoping they can make this documentary factual, informational, unbiased, and entertaining all at the same time.

This is true, but that's always the risk of kickstarter projects... Well, that and total failure to result.

[X-Vector]

Gerolf, on 30 June 2021 - 02:13 PM, said:

Here's hoping they can make this documentary factual, informational, unbiased, and entertaining all at the same time.

Considering the tone of the sales pitch on their Kickstarter page, there's a distinct possibility this will turn out more of a gush fest than a "warts 'n' all" analysis of the genre.

Quote

Made by fans, for fans - this will be the ultimate love letter to the genre. But, we can only make it with the support of the FPS Community. Back now to help us celebrate these fantastic games and the people who made them.

[MusicallyInspired]

Gerolf, on 30 June 2021 - 02:13 PM, said:

While this sounds interesting and the trailer shows a lot of awesome footage from games you wouldn't expect them to cover; the trailer doesn't really show off any of their documentary skills. Here's hoping they can make this documentary factual, informational, unbiased, and entertaining all at the same time.

This is the same group that already did at least two highly successful documentaries. A horror film doc (thr name of which I can't recall right now), and a Sci-Fi Doc called "In Search Of Tomorrow". I heard about FPS a couple months ago and saw lots of high praise given to the horror film doc which made people really excited about FPS. I aldo remember seeing ads for the sci-fi one and it looked quite good. I didn't realize until this Kickstarter started that they're all the same group. I'm highly optimistic.

[Morpheus Kitami]

I don't really back things, got burned on it before, but I can tell they really put some effort into this. As sad as it is, Catacomb 3D is some deep dive stuff, but Battlezone? The original 3D Monster Maze? Whatever that ZX Spectrum-looking title is? Let me tell you from someone who's done their research on the subject in the past, they've done theirs well.

[Ninety-Six]

X-Vector, on 01 July 2021 - 12:03 AM, said:

Considering the tone of the sales pitch on their Kickstarter page, there's a distinct possibility this will turn out more of a gush fest than a "warts 'n' all" analysis of the genre.

Honestly, I can kinda accept that, too. If they want to just make it a pure celebration of all FPS, I'll take that too. It doesn't seem like it's playing favorites whether it's the classics or military shooters. We might have our favorites but a celebration of all things FPS is fine by me, too.

[MusicallyInspired]

Yeah that's fine. Why does it need warts?

[DNSKILL5]

MusicallyInspired, on 01 July 2021 - 05:16 AM, said:

This is the same group that already did at least two highly successful documentaries. A horror film doc (thr name of which I can't recall right now), and a Sci-Fi Doc called "In Search Of Tomorrow". I heard about FPS a couple months ago and saw lots of high praise given to the horror film doc which made people really excited about FPS. I aldo remember seeing ads for the sci-fi one and it looked quite good. I didn't realize until this Kickstarter started that they're all the same group. I'm highly optimistic.

Thanks for that, I know exactly which documentaries you’re referring here, but had no idea that this was organized by the same group. I think it could definitely turn out as good as those documentaries did.

[Ninety-Six]

It seems the doc is in post-production and they're doing a second fundraiser:

(Icarus' vid includes the new trailer alongside the breakdown so I just linked this one).

We get to see some of the people interviewed. There are the usual suspects, along with some...odd choices. No sign of the Duke devs either, but given JSJ's presence and the abundance of Duke quotes all over both trailers, it seems to me that that's not because of the production team's choice. Seems more like old 3DR members just don't want to talk about it, which to be honest I kind of expected.

Spoiler

Side-note this video made me realize I literally never heard John Carmack's voice before now.

[Ninety-Six]

Scratch that turns out Scott Miller is in it.

[Avenger]

I would have far more respect for this project if they just stuck to interviewing members of the software companies that made the games. I literally couldn`t care less what youtube pseudo pundits have to say.

I`ll probably still watch it at some point but won`t pay money to do so.

[DNSKILL5]

I think it will be interesting. Their Facebook page for this documentary shows a lot of obscure shooter games, so the trailers could be showing a very small glimpse of the bigger picture.

And I can understand where Avenger is getting at, but people like AVGN have had a pretty big impact on gaming culture so I guess that’s why they’re interviewing them, for a gamer perspective of these games, with the devs giving the more detailed behind the scenes side of the story.

[Avenger]

DNSKILL, on 17 July 2022 - 03:42 PM, said:

I can understand where Avenger is getting at, but people like AVGN have had a pretty big impact on gaming culture so I guess that’s why they’re interviewing them, for a gamer perspective of these games, with the devs giving the more detailed behind the scenes side of the story.

That`s demonstrably false. All the FPS games that actually matter and had real impact on the industry were around and broke ground well before youtube existed. Not to mention documentaries are supposed to be fact based. Not opinion pieces of pretentious social media fanboys riding the coattails of games they had nothing to do with.

[DNSKILL5]

Meh, I'd rather them interview what you consider pretentious social media fanboys than virtue signaling Hollywood celebs who may have just happened to have played one of the games being discussed, which would be far worse. Just pirate this and skip those bits, Avenger, lol.

Also, AVGN has certainly impacted retro gaming, I don't see how you could find that demonstrably false, but I can understand why it makes little sense for him, and others like him, to be apart of this documentary, but my only guess is it is because they will garner more views from their fairly large fan bases and they have at least some understanding of how to make discussion about video games interesting on camera.

[OpenMaw]

James is also a documentarian himself.

And yes, he has an impact on the retro gaming culture. Not just as AVGN, but as a collector, and again, as a documentarian. He's gotten many people who have followed in his footsteps to get really interested in gaming history.

He's also a HUGE Doom fan and has brought it up numerous times over the years since he started AVGN.

I honestly don't know why his presence is a problem. James is a cool dude.

[Avenger]

DNSKILL, on 18 July 2022 - 12:59 PM, said:

Meh, I'd rather them interview what you consider pretentious social media fanboys than virtue signaling Hollywood celebs who may have just happened to have played one of the games being discussed, which would be far worse. Just pirate this and skip those bits, Avenger, lol.

Also, AVGN has certainly impacted retro gaming, I don't see how you could find that demonstrably false, but I can understand why it makes little sense for him, and others like him, to be apart of this documentary, but my only guess is it is because they will garner more views from their fairly large fan bases and they have at least some understanding of how to make discussion about video games interesting on camera.

I would agree with that in theory but since that`s not the case, I don`t know how hollywood celebrities are relevant?

The genre has enough of a fan base without the need to try to gain views through others perceived internet fame.

[Avenger]

OpenMaw, on 18 July 2022 - 02:39 PM, said:

James is also a documentarian himself.

And yes, he has an impact on the retro gaming culture. Not just as AVGN, but as a collector, and again, as a documentarian. He's gotten many people who have followed in his footsteps to get really interested in gaming history.

He's also a HUGE Doom fan and has brought it up numerous times over the years since he started AVGN.

I honestly don't know why his presence is a problem. James is a cool dude.

I already explained why but since you refuse to understand, how about you tell me how someone collecting big box games in their personal life "impacts" an industry that they had nothing to do with and was already well established before their social media presence?

[OpenMaw]

Avenger, on 19 July 2022 - 09:42 AM, said:

I already explained why but since you refuse to understand

No, I understand perfectly. Your presumptions are false. That's the problem. I gave you one prime example within the very post you're quoting.

OpenMaw, on 18 July 2022 - 02:39 PM, said:

He's gotten many people who have followed in his footsteps to get really interested in gaming history.

James is part of the first generation of genuine Vloggers and Youtube personalities.


-His criticisms of games have lead to modifications and homebrews that directly address the issues he raises.
-There have been games made in a retro style ABOUT the AVGN for nearly a decade and a half.
-He has raised awareness on game preservation and game collecting through his blogs outside of AVGN.
-He himself is a major documentarian. A point I already made.

James predates all of the retro revivals. You do understand he had a part to play in inspiring many of those retro games? Via his romanticized, nostalgic attitude about his own childhood and via AVGN? There are numerous developers who have name dropped James, AVGN, as being a part of their inspiration.

[Avenger]

OpenMaw, on 21 July 2022 - 09:49 AM, said:

No, I understand perfectly. Your presumptions are false. That's the problem. I gave you one prime example within the very post you're quoting.



James is part of the first generation of genuine Vloggers and Youtube personalities.


-His criticisms of games have lead to modifications and homebrews that directly address the issues he raises.
-There have been games made in a retro style ABOUT the AVGN for nearly a decade and a half.
-He has raised awareness on game preservation and game collecting through his blogs outside of AVGN.
-He himself is a major documentarian. A point I already made.

James predates all of the retro revivals. You do understand he had a part to play in inspiring many of those retro games? Via his romanticized, nostalgic attitude about his own childhood and via AVGN? There are numerous developers who have name dropped James, AVGN, as being a part of their inspiration.

Clearly you don`t because you`re attempting to justify your stance with a bunch of assumptions and irrelevant factors that only confirm my point that he had absolutely nothing to do with any of the games you claim he "romanticizes". Living off the coattails of others is not the same as impacting an industry and quite frankly I would love to see you define "first generation vlogger" because videos have been uploaded to the internet well before youtube existed. You`re really showing your age here when you think that social media posters accomplish anything other than displaying how much free time they have.

[OpenMaw]

Avenger, on 21 July 2022 - 05:47 PM, said:

Clearly you don`t because you`re attempting to justify your stance with a bunch of assumptions and irrelevant factors that only confirm my point that he had absolutely nothing to do with any of the games you claim he "romanticizes". Living off the coattails of others is not the same as impacting an industry and quite frankly I would love to see you define "first generation vlogger" because videos have been uploaded to the internet well before youtube existed. You`re really showing your age here when you think that social media posters accomplish anything other than displaying how much free time they have.

You know what? I don't care to argue with someone who can't read. You want to misconstrue my words to say that he somehow made Doom or Quake. I never said that. I was arguing specifically against the point that he had NO impact. Which is not true.

But since you can't understand that, and now you want to try and go after my age... Bro, i'm 34 years old. I know the general history of the internet. Yeah, in the 90s you could find some smatterings of what you might call Vlogging, and some of that even extends back to the BBS era, but it did not take off until the early 2000s, and whether you like it or not, James Rofle was one of the big ones in those days.

In other words:

[Avenger]

OpenMaw, on 22 July 2022 - 03:30 PM, said:

You know what? I don't care to argue with someone who can't read. You want to misconstrue my words to say that he somehow made Doom or Quake. I never said that. I was arguing specifically against the point that he had NO impact. Which is not true.

But since you can't understand that, and now you want to try and go after my age... Bro, i'm 34 years old. I know the general history of the internet. Yeah, in the 90s you could find some smatterings of what you might call Vlogging, and some of that even extends back to the BBS era, but it did not take off until the early 2000s, and whether you like it or not, James Rofle was one of the big ones in those days.

In other words:

Who truly has the comprehension problem here? When did I say that you ever mentioned that this guy had anything to do with those games?

The point I`m making which obviously went well above your head is that my baseline for what constitutes "impacting an industry" is clearly a much higher standard and better defined than yours. I look for those thst actually possess talent and shape the industry through genre defining games that they contributed to, where as your bar is set so low you dish out such a title to self prclaimed social media pundits that simply ride their coattails piggy backing off their work. Let`s be honest, if this guys youtube ban stuck in 2013, he`d be flipping burgers at mcdonalds.

Glad you finally realized that your claim of "first generation vlogger" was wrong. The last step out of denial would be to not add citations as an excuse next time but I suppose it`s progress...