[jkas789]

Let's start a metroidvania thread. I can't be the only weirdo on here who likes them.

For starters why don't we use this format that I totally did not stole from a 4chan thread:

-Favorite metroidvania
-Least favorite metroidvania
-Most recent metroidvania and what you thought of it

Let's start with my controversial patrician take:

Favorite metroidvania
Metroid Fusion.

Least favorite metroidvania
Hollow Knight

Most recent metroidvania and what you thought of it
Record of Lodoss War-Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth-

I loved -Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth-. It is not the best metroidvania but it is quite fun for the short experience it is. It needs to be more refined though, so I'm hoping the devs will keep working on it with future updates. It would be nice if the devs added higher difficulties, a bestiary and a boss rush mode. People give it a lot of shit for not being overly different from its peers but I don't think it has to be.

Man with the release of the blue rays, the Grey Witch novel english official translation and the fan english novel translations we international Record of Lodoss war fans are sure getting spoiled.

[Aristotle Gumball]

People say the console version of Powerslave is a metroidvania and it has become one of my favorite games. I have probably played others, but I don't know em by name.

[jkas789]

Immanuel Cunt, on 14 May 2021 - 07:00 AM, said:

People say the console version of Powerslave is a metroidvania and it has become one of my favorite games. I have probably played others, but I don't know em by name.

It really plays like one. At times I can't help but think that maybe some of the people who developed the Metroid Prime games probably looked at it for inspiration.

[jkas789]

Lets also start with a reccomendation:

Blasphemous is currently on sale on Steam.

It's basically a soulslike metroidvania with a spanish catholic barroque aesthetic. Played best with spanish voice acting.

Very wow, much recommend. It has it's problems (As any game trying to combine the the soulslike and metroidvania genres. I'm looking at you Hollow Knight!) however it is a fine romp worth the money.

[Ninety-Six]

Favorite metroidvania
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes

Least favorite metroidvania
Metroid (the original)

Most recent metroidvania and what you thought of it
The Messenger - Some of the best movement in a game of all time. I played a lot of NG+ solely so I could just keep having an excuse to move in the game. The movement is so smooth and absolutely perfect, and the feeling of maintaining a constant flow is unparalleled.


As a side note, about 95% of my metroidvania experience comes from the first half of the genre name.

[jkas789]

Ninety-Six, on 14 May 2021 - 07:28 AM, said:

Favorite metroidvania
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes

I personally do consider the 3D Metroid games (Except of Other M. Fuck Other M to high heaven.) as metroidvania games. However some people have a problem with them being 3D and not sidecrollers and the the "light" puzzle use. I think people are maybe a bit too pedantic about it but I guess it is a entertaining point of discussion on the nature of the genre if nothing else.

Also I agree that The Messenger is pretty great. I have so far bought it (and completed it) 3 times. People on the discord know that I'm a filthy fucking pirate, though I also believe in rewarding good behavior. If your game is good, I will throw you my hard earned pesos.

Have you had the opportunity of playing all the castlevania games? Or just OG castlevania + Symphony of the Night. Because the GBA and NDS games are surprisingly good.

[Ninety-Six]

jkas789, on 14 May 2021 - 07:43 AM, said:

I personally do consider the 3D Metroid games (Except of Other M. Fuck Other M to high heaven.) as metroidvania games. However some people have a problem with them being 3D and not sidecrollers and the the "light" puzzle use. I think people are maybe a bit too pedantic about it but I guess it is a entertaining point of discussion on the nature of the genre if nothing else.

I'd agree, especially since there are still quite a few puzzles in the Prime games. They're slightly fewer, but make up for it by being a lot bigger and more complex than what we've seen in the 2D entries. The rotating spiderball tower in the Phazon Mines comes to mind.

Plus there are plenty of 2D MVs out there now that are even lighter on the puzzles aspect nowadays.

jkas789, on 14 May 2021 - 07:43 AM, said:

Have you had the opportunity of playing all the castlevania games? Or just OG castlevania + Symphony of the Night. Because the GBA and NDS games are surprisingly good.

Unfortunately I haven't played too many, and the ones I have played were of the classic variety. Back when I myself was a pirate I had the chance to play the first three NES games but wasn't able to make much headway in them. The only Castlevania game I ever beat was Bloodlines (which has a phenomenal soundtrack).


One of these days I'll get that big Castlevania collection and do a proper marathon of the franchise.

[OpenMaw]

Immanuel Cunt, on 14 May 2021 - 07:00 AM, said:

People say the console version of Powerslave is a metroidvania and it has become one of my favorite games. I have probably played others, but I don't know em by name.

I swear I saw or heard or read somewhere that some of the guys at Lobotomy went on to work at the company that made Metroid Prime.

Favorite Metroidvania would have to be Super Metroid. From tone, to music, atmosphere, the upgrades, the art, the character design, Samus' amazing movement sent. I'd give second runner up to OG Metroid Prime for absolutely blowing my mind in the early 00s.

Least favorite would have to be Metroid Fusion or Metroid 2. Metroid 2, love the 8bit music, hate the very monotonous gameplay. Metroid Fusion, although well made, is the start of the downward trend where Metroid games started doing a lot of hand holding and putting too much emphasis on some kind of a story.

[Ninety-Six]

The only thing I dislike about Fusion are the points of no return and being able to permanently miss stuff. Later games cut down on that significantly. Otherwise Fusion is an amazing horror game.


I'm also not all that against the hand-holding in Metroid's case. In Fusion it was a problem since you were constantly being locked out of stuff. In, say, Zero Mission, while you had to stop at the chozo statues, you were still mostly free to go any "wrong" direction first. Hell if anything I'd say that made it slightly easier to explore since you now knew where not to check out if you wanted to find stuff.

I also have to confess that if it wasn't for ZM doing that I probably wouldn't be a Metroid fan. Up until ZM, despite having played a few others, including Super, I just never "got" Metroid. The idea of there not being a direct end point was an extremely foreign and downright alien concept to me. Even in games like Zelda there's still an end point to the dungeons and such, with the overworld being sort of a connecting hub. Metroid doesn't work like that and it took some retinkering with my brain to grasp the concept. ZM was a massive help in that regard. Knowing where to go helped me grasp the flow of the genre.

These days I'm an obsessive completionist so missing out on stuff is the bane of my existence, so I'm ripe for Metroid. I value knowing where the next objective is for the opposite reason that I did before, that again being having the knowledge of where to check out last so I don't get locked in to a route I didn't want to go yet.

[jkas789]

Quote

These days I'm an obsessive completionist so missing out on stuff is the bane of my existence, so I'm ripe for Metroid. I value knowing where the next objective is for the opposite reason that I did before, that again being having the knowledge of where to check out last so I don't get locked in to a route I didn't want to go yet.

Lol same. Metroid Fusion was my first metroid game when I was a kid, so it is partly because of nostalgia that it is my number one. Later on as a fun hating adult I began to appreciate the unique mix of horror and exploration it played with. Honestly, it being linear is not bad. In regards to it being the reason Metroid games started putting more emphasis on story than gameplay, i would argue that is wrong. After all the only other metroid game with story upfront is Other M. And we know how that went.

Fun fact, the director of Other M expressed that he had no regrets about making it.

[Ninety-Six]

i have another unpopular take:

I don't hate Other M.

[jkas789]

Ninety-Six, on 14 May 2021 - 08:51 AM, said:

i have another unpopular take:

I don't hate Other M.

To be fair, the gameplay was all right. Everything else was rubbish IMO. I definitely did not like the way they butchered Samus character (the little we knew off at least), the story generally, and the fact that I had to get permission from the boss to be able to use my items. They literally treated the Power Bomb like a nuke.

Also this may be only me, but it generally felt like a rethread of Metroid Fusion in some respects.

[Ninety-Six]

I think her character was fine. It's also pretty much exactly how she was depicted in the prequel manga as well.


As for having to be allowed powerups, it's basically the same as finding a chozo statue but just in a different skin. Maybe not the greatest skin but on the whole it was still the same sort of formula. The only time I had a problem with it is when it decided to go silent and not give us any indication that we could use the power bomb, so I died about 20 times to the metroid queen before looking up a guide.

[jkas789]

Fair. I haven't read the mangas so I'm going from what little there is in the Metroid games. So basically the bulk of it is Fusion.

Quote

The only time I had a problem with it is when it decided to go silent and not give us any indication that we could use the power bomb, so I died about 20 times to the metroid queen before looking up a guide.

Funnily enough I also had the same problem.

[Ninety-Six]

jkas789, on 14 May 2021 - 09:22 AM, said:

Funnily enough I also had the same problem.

A lot of people did, as I recall. That was not good game design by any stretch. I have no intention of defending that part of the game. That was just stupid.

[Ninety-Six]

I just remembered. The Messenger wasn't the last one I played. That was actually Touhou Luna Nights; I played the two very close together hence the confusion.

Thoughts on that: A bit short, but enjoyable while it lasted. Puts the time-manipulation to good use, but I feel like it was under-utilized and could have been further developed. Movement is also not as good as The Messenger but it's by no means bad.

Boss fights are A+ though, which they should be if they're gonna be based on Touhou.

[OpenMaw]

Ninety-Six, on 14 May 2021 - 08:51 AM, said:

i have another unpopular take:

I don't hate Other M.

My only response is this... I could forgive most everything in the game, except the complete personality-rape they did to Samus. Much like with Lara Croft in the rebooted Tomb Raiders, they took a character who was absolutely stoic, badass, and certain of herself, and shattered them. Ruined their mythical strength. That I can't abide.

Imagine they put a bunch of scenes in the next Doom game where Slayer laments his choices and weeps and cries. I don't see it going over well, personally. Not after building him up so much. Same thing here. Just going back and looking at Samus' stoic and simple responses in Super or Metroid Prime they were so impact... Compared to the minutes and minutes of Samus being somber, weepy, and weak in Other M... I just can't. There is some nice nostalgia in Other M, though. That's not enough to make a compelling game for me.

I can totally understand your point and I absolutely agree on Zero Mission. Zero Mission absolutely perfected the original Metroid. I just don't care for the GBA sound chip and some of the artwork. I prefer the darker tone of Super Metroid. It's foreboding and... I don't think the series has ever had a better soundtrack than SM.

[Ninety-Six]

I mean again the manga version was identical (which I do believe is considered canon).

There's also some cultural divide at play. I don't remember the exact details, but it goes something along the lines of the badass stoic hero not being seen quite as badass in Japan. Or maybe just for women; I don't remember.


I think a large part of the problem was also the voice acting. Truth be told, her long waffling monologues aren't really all that different from the same sort of monologues from Fusion or even Super's intro. If you were to show someone who'd never played or seen anything from any of the games and lined up all her monologues (text only) side-by-side, they wouldn't really able to tell a difference (the only reason she says "baby" in Other M more often than "Adam" in Fusion is cartridge space). IIRC the voice direction was also part of that cultural divide.

The Prime games also played a role in this. Being developed by western studios (even if the director was Japanese), they definitely animated and treated Samus like your usual badass western hero. And with them being the primary vehicle for the franchise for pretty much an entire decade almost certainly did some coloring of the character in public consciousness.

So in essence, Metroid had weighed heavily on the Western side of culture throughout the 2000s thanks to the Prime trilogy and its handful of spinoffs. And then as a followup, Other M came out while leaning back towards its ultra-Japanese roots since it was considered part of the core series and not a side-series, which led to a major shift in tone and portrayal. Given that, also IIRC, Metroid is far less popular in Japan than it is in the West, it probably would have been wiser to lean harder into the Western fanbase over the Japanese one.


With all that mind I can be a lot more forgiving to the game in its portrayal of Samus. Even more so since I was (and still am, really) a huge Metroid lore nerd, so of course I read the prequel material a lot. Samus was not out of character in comparison to supplemental material at all. ...Or really even compared to Fusion.

[OpenMaw]

Ninety-Six, on 15 May 2021 - 01:55 PM, said:

With all that mind I can be a lot more forgiving to the game in its portrayal of Samus. Even more so since I was (and still am, really) a huge Metroid lore nerd, so of course I read the prequel material a lot. Samus was not out of character in comparison to supplemental material at all. ...Or really even compared to Fusion.

If you're talking about the prequel manga where Samus is raised by the Chozo, then I would say it's not fair to compare that to Other M. Other M takes place at the tale end of the series just before Fusion. Technically, yes, Samus is consistent with her more morose depiction in Fusion, but her stoicism is a strong depiction of her character through the original Trilogy, and the only time Samus has anything to say in the original series is the opening to Super Metroid, where she is very by-the-book. She's not weepy, upset, or anything. She just gives us the recap. Her badass persona starts well before Prime and is the primary reason Prime adopted that depiction of her.

[Ninety-Six]

Well the first two games were on hardware that would never stand a chance to tell those sorts of stories while also maintaining the gameplay, and Super was in many ways almost a sort of expanded remake of the first. There was also literally zero other characters of any sort.

I'm also not even sure how much of the lore was even in place at the time of Super. The lore didn't seem to have much of anything to it until the 2000s with Fusion and Prime, though there was that one Nintendo Power adaptation of Super where Old Bird made his debut. Point being, with the coming of lore came characters as well.


We also can't exactly afford to oversell how much of Samus was actually in the Prime games. It was a first person game, after all. Most of what we know was written from the perspective of the Pirates, so of course they would set her up as some terrifying uber entity. Not to say that there wasn't anything that they put a spin into, because there was.

That said, given the lack of lore up until around the early 2000s, and Prime's storied development, their "choice" to portray Samus like in the original games may have more resulted from there being nothing else to draw from at the time.

[jkas789]

Ninety-Six, on 15 May 2021 - 11:02 AM, said:

I just remembered. The Messenger wasn't the last one I played. That was actually Touhou Luna Nights

From the same creators of Record of Lodoss War-Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth- . It was a good game I agree. Dirt cheap too so I have no regrets paying for it.

Quote

I prefer the darker tone of Super Metroid. It's foreboding and... I don't think the series has ever had a better soundtrack than SM.

I would argue Metroid Fusion was even darker at times.

[MusicallyInspired]

Shadow Complex was great.

[jkas789]

MusicallyInspired, on 16 May 2021 - 09:03 PM, said:

Shadow Complex was great.

Damn never though I would hear this game in this thread. What a blast from the past! Did you actually play this in the first release or did you play the remastered version?

[MusicallyInspired]

jkas789, on 17 May 2021 - 05:58 AM, said:

Damn never though I would hear this game in this thread. What a blast from the past! Did you actually play this in the first release or did you play the remastered version?

First release. I had just gotten a 360 at the time and heard it was coming only to XBLA and I was thrilled to be able to play it, judging from what I had heard about it being highly influenced by Super Metroid. I sure was not disappointed.

[jkas789]

You should try the remastered version if you ever get the scratch.

ATM I'm trying to get into Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon 2, it's definitely a Castlevania game alright.

[MusicallyInspired]

I have the remastered version as well. Got it on Epic and Steam as soon as it was available. Played through a bit of it but never beat it again.

[jkas789]

So, it seems a sequel for Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night is in development.

I'm quite happy about it, as putting aside the 3D graphics (I was hoping it would be a pure sprites game) I very much enjoyed it.

[jkas789]

BEST. DAY. EVER!



Interview with Yoshio Sakamoto.


Nintendo Treehouse gameplay footage:



Never, in my wildest dreams would I believe 2D Metroid game would be announced, let alone Metroid Dread of al things. It blows my fucking mind.

[Ninety-Six]

I would be excited, but after the shit Nintendo pulled with their physical on-disk (on-cart) DLC with the Metroid 2 remake aka amiibo aka that thing that they keep in perpetually low quantities meaning parts of the game are straight inaccessible whether you can pay for it or not

yeah I'm not exactly looking forward to this.


Metroid died for me, not when Other M came out (which I still hold was alright), not when the franchise was comatose like all the other abandoned Nintendo IPs, not even when Federation Force happened. No, it died for me when Nintendo nuked AM2R just to replace it with their own version that contained one their scummiest stunts of all time, and then hold the whole franchise hostage for it.

[jkas789]

That is fair, but also kind off expected. I personally like both AM2R and Samus Returns, and never felt that Fusion mode or the art galleries were really necessary. Sure it would have been cool to have them but honestly?

┐(￣～￣)┌

Also at that point my New 3DS had CFW installed and I could emulate amiibos in game so...

But again I can understand your point. Nintendo "killing" (unsuccessfully because it still gets regular updates) AM2R is one my pet peeves as well. But I also agree that having a free fan remake competing with a game they were about to release would have been fucking dumb on their part.

On another note, while I enjoy AM2R I don't think it is the end all of Metroid games / fan games.