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Deleting a square sector within a sector

User is offline   mike_s 

#1

I can't believe I just corrupted a map right after I tried deleting a sector and I don't know any utilities that can fix it so I guess I'll have to start all over after a few days work :(

Anyways, tutorials online tell me that to delete a sector within a sector, I join the green squares. Even though the sectors look removed, when I go preview my map, the walls look jittery and when I try to move around in my map, the system freezes.

Is there another way I can easily delete a sector within a sector without corrupting a map, and is there a utility that can even correct maps from this issue?

I'm using the original build made in 1995 by Ken silverman.
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#2

Why not Mapster32? Try these, not sure if they are specific to mapster.

ctrl del deletes any sector.
ctrl z is undo

If you can locate the error in the map you can select it with alt then delete it with ctrl + del.

This post has been edited by William Gee: 24 April 2021 - 10:36 PM

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User is offline   jimbob 

#3

i use join, i dont think that ever corupted a map for me.
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User is online   ck3D 

#4

You're supposed to join the parent sector (first) with the child sector (second) using the Joining tool indeed which is J on both in succession in 2D mode. The reason why the order matters is the data (texturing, shading etc.) of the former will always override the data of the latter, since you're deleting that one. Shifting the vertices atop of one another aka. 'collapsing' the sector was always a big no no that could easily result in corruption IIRC, I've almost only seen that method explained in tutorials as something you actually shouldn't do. Similarly, if you wanted to delete a structure made of white walls inside a sector, turn it into a child sector (valid player space) and then use J. For white walled structures that aren't 'island' components, you can use Ctrl + Del.

William: Undo is specific to Mapster (that I can recall), but Ctrl + Del is OG.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 25 April 2021 - 01:10 AM

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User is offline   oasiz 

  • Dr. Effector

#5

FYI: You really don't want to use the original DOS build for any serious editing these days, it's not very stable and has various quirks that let you corrupt your map.
It's bad enough that Blood devs added an autosave function since you could lose your work so easily.

Maps created with mapster32 are compatible with DOS Duke, provided you stick within the limits.
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#6

The autosave never clicked as a potential issue to me because, probably since the first time I broke a map, I've always made regular increments, especially before and after doing any major sector work. I'd always advise people get a version numbering scheme going and do this, you'll not regret it - even if you don't break something, you can always revert a part of a map to an older version if you decide to later or reuse a scrapped area in another map even. Sometimes I even build complicated things "off-world" and import them later, as they may have made editing somewhere difficult otherwise, or activated things I didn't want activated while testing elsewhere.

You'll notice my map file names are always things like _VHT0136.MAP, where 0136 is quite literally the version number. Special versions my have a letter appended, like D for 'DOS' or C for 1.3D. The underscore is just to put it at the top of the list when loading and the short filenames are because 8.3 is a habit that won't fully die. Meaningless, but the VHT is actually "Vain House Trapped", or something along those lines, as these were the working title

Moral of the story, always do incremental saves, especially if you're unsure of something.
Another advantage of version numbers is you can quickly tell if someone is playing or hosting an outdated version of your map.


According to Monolith, collapsing sectors is 'Bad Juju'.

This post has been edited by High Treason: 25 April 2021 - 01:16 PM

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User is online   ck3D 

#7

View PostHigh Treason, on 25 April 2021 - 01:08 PM, said:

The autosave never clicked as a potential issue to me because, probably since the first time I broke a map, I've always made regular increments, especially before and after doing any major sector work. I'd always advise people get a version numbering scheme going and do this, you'll not regret it - even if you don't break something, you can always revert a part of a map to an older version if you decide to later or reuse a scrapped area in another map even. Sometimes I even build complicated things "off-world" and import them later, as they may have made editing somewhere difficult otherwise, or activated things I didn't want activated while testing elsewhere.

You'll notice my map file names are always things like _VHT0136.MAP, where 0136 is quite literally the version number. Special versions my have a letter appended, like D for 'DOS' or C for 1.3D. The underscore is just to put it at the top of the list when loading and the short filenames are because 8.3 is a habit that won't fully die. Meaningless, but the VHT is actually "Vain House Trapped", or something along those lines, as these were the working title

Moral of the story, always do incremental saves, especially if you're unsure of something.
Another advantage of version numbers is you can quickly tell if someone is playing or hosting an outdated version of your map.


According to Monolith, collapsing sectors is 'Bad Juju'.


I feel like I could have written that post word for word, that's exactly how I do it too (minus the D for DOS thing, I do do extra letters for special versions but usually those are just test ones for when I'm envisioning an effect I'm not sure I'll keep in the end, so that if I don't like it I don't have to delete anything and can just go back) and I also got into the habit super early, as soon as I realized how unreliable OG Build could be, so it must have been 20+ years. Incremental saves are also super useful for general copy-pasting work from map to map because then the old revisions can act like just as many templates, say for SOS and whatnot, now that's something I realized not that long ago. In my case, I still save my WIP maps all the time out of habit and I'd say once every other Save is a Save As + number change, I even started keeping the most ancient revisions in subfolders a while back to avoid clutter or for every map I'd easily end up with roughly 1000 files, which is a pain in the ass to navigate through in Build/Mapster unless you get organized. I also think it's funny because indirectly, that method enables you to roughly quantify the number of times you save during the whole process of working on one map, even if you're not really trying to keep track - it's there, the insanity in plain sight.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 26 April 2021 - 10:27 AM

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User is offline   mike_s 

#8

I learned about the J after the fact. oh well. I did end up making another map after all. Funny thing is my maps are so huge that in some rooms it takes 5 seconds to go to the other end of the room while on steroids. Its definitely well suited for 8 players. lol
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