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"No updates availible" ?

User is offline   duke3d.exe 

#1

I haven't opened eduke3d in like a month or two, and I saw this on the log:

Connecting to http://www.eduke32.com
Current version is 20120522... no updates available


Is this normal? It's whitelisted on the firewall.

I've also noticed at the top it says:

EDuke32 r8620
Built Feb  7 2020 21:12:37, GCC 8.3.0, 64-bit 


I've downloaded the latest version from https://dukeworld.co...ynthesis/latest

And when opening the new exe I see:

EDuke32 r9297-2bb6cbcae
Built Dec 21 2020 07:11:31, GCC 10.0.0, 64-bit 


But at the bottom it again says:

Checking for updates...
Connecting to http://www.eduke32.com
Current version is 20120522... no updates available


So I don't get it. Same version number but different build?

This post has been edited by duke3d.exe: 25 December 2020 - 09:48 AM

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User is online   Mark 

#2

My guess is the 2012 version is considered the best stable version to run Duke3D as it was originally meant to be played.
Anything after that has been experimenting and enhancements.
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#3

This stems from the update check that existed in versions prior to 2012 -- this was from a time where the repository was still on SourceForge.

Here is where this version number comes from: https://www.eduke32.com/VERSION

It's essentially just a leftover. Currently eduke32 is a rolling release without major point versions, so it doesn't really make sense to nag users about updating it.
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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#4

Like the posters above wrote, this message has no meaning. It will never find an update, you will have to do that by yourself. It's save to ignore this. Probably should be removed from the code or at least turned off at this point.

This post has been edited by NightFright: 26 December 2020 - 02:06 AM

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User is offline   oasiz 

  • Dr. Effector

#5

View PostMark, on 25 December 2020 - 10:43 AM, said:

My guess is the 2012 version is considered the best stable version to run Duke3D as it was originally meant to be played.
Anything after that has been experimenting and enhancements.


Nope.
There was no such thing as "stable golden version", each version has it's own quirks, even older ones. Besides whole "E" in eduke is about enhancements, what did you think versions prior to 2012 were all about? :P
It's just old obsolete code as was mentioned and should be removed (I think all it ever did was just redirect the user to eduke32.com)
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User is online   Mark 

#6

OK. My guess was way off. But it was arrived at because I didn't think a useless outdated bit of code would remain after so many years. But then those else without if errors haven't been corrected for a decade either.
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User is offline   Striker 

  • Auramancer

#7

View PostMark, on 26 December 2020 - 01:41 PM, said:

OK. My guess was way off. But it was arrived at because I didn't think a useless outdated bit of code would remain after so many years. But then those else without if errors haven't been corrected for a decade either.

That's because the else with no if errors are a cock-up in the stock CONs, not wrong behaviour on EDuke32's part.

This post has been edited by Striker: 26 December 2020 - 08:28 PM

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User is online   Mark 

#8

And I'm guessing are untouchable by the devs because of license terms?
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User is offline   oasiz 

  • Dr. Effector

#9

There is that, and you would have to change things for each version if you wanted to patch it as each there is more than one CON version out there.
It's just a visual warning, something that the original compiler ignored (but the error was still always there).
These errors were simply added to help modders adhere to coding standards and help with debugging. It doesn't disable/break anything.
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User is online   Phredreeke 

#10

What about having a whitelist of CONs used for official releases of the game and suppressing those messages only for those?
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User is offline   oasiz 

  • Dr. Effector

#11

I don't think that makes much sense.. These "errors" already basically flash by during bootup and modders should be aware of these issues especially they you intend to copy & study code.
Suddenly people would be thinking that adding a single byte would "break" the con files if they even touch it at all (as the checksum wouldn't match).

It's kind of a non-issue and anything beyond this would be hacking around something for novelty value.
For comparison, open some maps in mapster and you also notice corruption despite original build never complaining about such.

The stock CON simply has legitimate errors in how it's written and the compiler notifies about these as it should (and should have) :P
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User is online   Mark 

#12

Previous versions of Eduke32 were coded to not display the ever present missing sound file errors in the log. In some other versions it did. So it must be a simple matter ( for our knowledgeable devs ) to not display the 2 "if" errors but it seems like somebody made the decision to keep them in. I know its nitpicking to even bring it up but I'm bored. ;)
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#13

It is an error and EDuke32 should always notify the user of errors.
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User is offline   Striker 

  • Auramancer

#14

View PostMark, on 27 December 2020 - 12:23 PM, said:

Previous versions of Eduke32 were coded to not display the ever present missing sound file errors in the log. In some other versions it did. So it must be a simple matter ( for our knowledgeable devs ) to not display the 2 "if" errors but it seems like somebody made the decision to keep them in. I know its nitpicking to even bring it up but I'm bored. ;)

It's not a simple matter. You'd have to hard-code some kind of exception for the if/else in many variations of the stock CONs, or ignore the error for everything, at all times, whenever it happens. (WHICH WOULD BE FUCKING HORRID)

This post has been edited by Striker: 11 February 2021 - 12:33 PM

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User is online   Mark 

#15

I assumed the fix would not be messing in the core coding but something on the periphery like a tiny script that detects just those 2 specific lines and then not write them to the log. Scripting seems to be very powerful and flexible and should be relatively easy to implement. Maybe I'm wrong.

This post has been edited by Mark: 12 February 2021 - 11:11 AM

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User is online   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#16

The fact is those lines are bad and they should be written to the log. If anyone releases a project and hasn't taken a moment to fix them, they deserve to be called out for it. If I see those warnings I know I am dealing with stock CONs, or at least with someone who doesn't know how to or can't be bothered to fix them, which is useful information.
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User is online   Mark 

#17

I guess that would apply to the eduke32 team then for not bothering. My point has been made. Or does their license agreement forbid them to fix it but we as modders are allowed to? That doesn't make sense. Must be something else. This is so minor of a thing I shouldn't keep it going but I'm just curious.

This post has been edited by Mark: 12 February 2021 - 06:54 PM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#18

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. EDuke32 doesn't provide any game-level programming. The user does. If the user provides stock CONs then those CONs contain errors that EDuke32 will report in the log because they are errors.
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User is online   Mark 

#19

Explain to me why the eduke32 log file didn't always report a specific bunch of long standing sound errors. That had nothing to do with the user. It looks to me like it was a decision made by the eduke32 devs to not display them. So I thought the same could be done with the "if" errors.

IIRC I even posted about when these sound file errors popped up in a project where I hadn't seen them before.

Found it... https://forums.duke4...post__p__354495

This post has been edited by Mark: 13 February 2021 - 05:23 AM

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User is offline   oasiz 

  • Dr. Effector

#20

Stock Duke3D had a more archaic CON compiler that did not understand these issues during compilation time. Issues that were always there and always functioned like they do today.
No decision was ever done to "hide" things as far as I know, it's more that the CON engine itself was much less mature and it didn't even know when things we're broken.

EDuke32 and EDuke is all about extending the CON language, naturally it also means that catching any errors is much more important to a modder than it was before as more and more "hardcoded" behaviour is instead added to a custom language with it's own compiler.

Reporting of potential issues is provided as a form of convenience for the user, it might be ugly for first time users. However it will not change the outcome beyond complaints in logfiles or bootup.
As users will use the original code for reference undoubtedly, it opens a can of worms when trying to suddenly hide things from sight.
-> Suppress specific lines: This gives users broken code to study from as they have no idea that it's broken. While very low in risk, it's a bad practice.
-> Suppress errors for stock cons: The moment users copy and modify even a single byte of the CON, it will throw errors all of a sudden, never knowing why their single byte modification keeps breaking it.
I believe that due to above, keeping a harmless warning in a port designed primarily for modding makes the most sense, maybe their first entry-level task could be to fix the issue in the first place :P
Anyway...

I'm sure you can agree that the task of the CON (or any) compiler should be to follow the very spec that was outlined by the original author(s) in the 90s.
Any warnings that you encounter in 2021 would have been fixed back in the 90s extremely likely had the developers known about it.

In this specific case it's the same as pointing out that a C compiler from the 90s didn't throw you warnings about code you wrote that did wrong, undefined or potentially dangerous behaviour. But then the same version from 2021, while it still compiles your code with the same behaviour output (perhaps faster & optimized), it will throw you a warnings about the issues instead.
Coders get smarter and it might take years before someone catches an issue.
CON has a run of other bugs and undefined behaviour that devs have documented over the years, in many cases these get discovered by modders after hours or days of head bashing and thus a helpful warning gets added as some of the behaviour might not be logical at first but it just turns out that the spec is technically limited in some way. Generally warnings should still only appear for major issues but the point about us learning new things is there.

Personally I think it should have a mention in any readme / FAQ though.

A recap:
-> Errors you get in stock duke3d stuff are not cause by the gamer, they were caused by Todd.
-> CON files are part of each respective game, expansion or such. Duke3D CON files are copyrighted code. Although can be shared for mods (would eduke need to bundle CONs for all version now?)
-> Original behaviour of compiled CON is maintained regardless of the warning
-> EDuke32 does not touch original assets, i.e. see maphacks.
-> Any issues beyond these, i.e. old mods, reinforces the point of "copying from a bad reference" (remember, these are generally just visual warnings, not showstoppers).
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User is online   Mark 

#21

Thanks for the details. It makes sense. But IF, for a cleaner error log that won't confuse new modders, could a small script be added like I mentioned to keep those 2 error lines from ending up in the log? I'm not saying to do it, just asking if it would be an easy addon.

edit: Actually, never mind. This is too minor of a thing for me to keep nagging on. ;)

This post has been edited by Mark: 13 February 2021 - 08:56 AM

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User is online   Mark 

#22

Aww... little Jimmy got mad. :lol:
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