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Duke's dimensions and movement speeds in real world terms?

User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#1

So what would the real world conversions of Duke's dimensions and movement translate into in the real world roughly?

I'm talking character height (standing and crouched)
Walking speed, running speed
Jumping height.

Have these things been converted into a real world metric before? I know when this is done with Doom, for example, the marine is basically faster than a car going 80 MPH or something ridiculous.
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User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#2

Not to my knowledge.

Also I think Doomguy's speed was calculated to be around ~45 MPH? I admit I don't remember but I'm pretty sure it wasn't as high as 80. Still, ~45 is almost highway speeds and is ridiculous for a human to run at.


We know Duke is a bit slower, unless he has the steroids at which point I think he might actually be faster than Doomguy. It certainly feels faster but nebulous feelings aren't a replacement for cold hard math.

Unfortunately the math would have to come from someone else. I am curious to find out, though. Assuming someone cares enough, anyway. I'm not so good at the maths, myself.
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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#3

The challenge is not so much the math, but deciding what the scale is. How much distance is 1024 build units? It seems like about 1 meter but I'm not sure. If it is one meter then doing some tests should be pretty simple. Strafe-running does complicate things, though. We should know Duke's speed at both regular running and strafe running. I know Doom also has a strafe running boost but I wonder how it compares.
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User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#4

We might have to start at Duke himself. I know textures and sprites can have whatever scaling they want applied, but vertical distance should still be measured in BUs, right? So if we figure out how tall Duke is, we might have a starting point.


Of course, I don't think there is any official documentation about that anywhere, so we might have to use an estimate. I don't think the average human height would suffice; he seems to be slightly taller than that. Not by a lot, but somewhat.
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#5

Indeed. If we could find Duke's official height, we could use that as a point of reference by laying Duke sprites flat, at the same size as the real player sprite, and measuring how fast he could run past them.

In my head he was always around my height, like 6'4" or maybe a tiny bit shorter at 6'2", but I don't know where this comes from. It would probably be safe to assume he at least reaches 6' (around 2 meters) so I guess we could get a rough calculation. I can't do anything right now, but have some ideas I might play with later.

To save others time, APLAYER has a 42x36 X/YREPEAT respectively.
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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#6

I'd have to go and dig through the art book, or the DNF manual. Somewhere it does give Duke's official height. Here's what Google gave me.


I don't know why that didn't work.

Quote


Image result for Duke Nukem Official height
According to the stats provided by the Duke Nukem Character Memory Card, he is 6'4" (1,93 m) and weighs 240 lbs. (109 kg).


One of the reasons I'm asking is I'd like to see the movement and controls from Duke 3D understood in a more universal way so that they could be converted to other engines, emulated as such.

This post has been edited by OpenMaw: 24 October 2020 - 08:46 PM

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#7

OK so here's what I've got;

Code was used to place the player exactly on the center of the first white line facing forwards.

These mathematics could be completely wrong, so feel free to rip the video and do your own math. Each white line is placed one player height away, I let Duke move for a while to reach full speed and then let him pass ten white lines, which with Duke being 6'4" would mean he had traveled 63'4" to reach that distance from when I started measuring. I divided this by the number of 30ths of a second it took, then multiplied that number by 30 to see how far he had traveled in one second. From there I had feet-per-second and could easily convert this into miles-per-hour;

Quote

WALK 63'4" in 2 27/30th seconds
RUN 63'4" in 1 13/30th seconds
ROID 63'4" in 0 21/30th seconds

So speed doubles every time.


It takes 87/30ths of a second to walk ten player heights, or around 760 inches, so;
760 / 87 = 8.735632183908046

The player walks 8.73 inches in 1/30th of a second and;
8.735632183908046 * 30 = 262.0689655172414

This means the player walks 262 inches per second, or 21 feet and 10 inches.
Or;
21.83333333333333 / 1.467 = 14.88636363636363491MPH
WALK 14.88MPH (Heil Hitler!)
RUN 29.76
ROID 59.52


Seems I forgot a division, fixed now. That's still pretty fast.


The 760 inches part is actually interesting as player height converts to around 760 build units, if laid flat on the floor, so each 76" would be about 760 build units.

This post has been edited by High Treason: 24 October 2020 - 09:17 PM

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User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#8

Damn, nice work.


I knew the roids were faster.
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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#9

That doesn't take strafe running into account, though, which most experienced players will do most of the time. Subjectively it feels like that boosts speed by around 20%
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User is offline   Aleks 

#10

I'm not sure if basing on Duke's in-game sprite is not a flawed approach, as he seems quite short and blocky from the F7 view (we've lately had a discussion about it here and I'm also quite sure it was mentioned in another thread). I'm not sure if basing on his height as a reference would be the best approach in this case (although good work with doing the test and all the maths, it shouldn't be hard now to just convert for different scale). I'd assume 512 Build units in X/Y or 8192 in Z would be 1 meter, as that seams a reasonable scale for most of the game's environment.

As for the strafe running speed, I've never given it much thought, but from general physics, shouldn't it just be like with vectors - so the normal speed multiplied by square root of 2? This would give about 40% boost.

This post has been edited by Aleks: 25 October 2020 - 02:49 AM

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User is offline   ck3D 

#11

View PostHigh Treason, on 24 October 2020 - 09:02 PM, said:

ROID 59.52


lol, so that's why Alien World Order didn't need transition maps from level to level - Duke just roid ran to every next country, nice. Probably stocked up on jetpacks and scuba gears too - or catch the right corrupted long wall to glide along and you're set to cross the ocean in seconds. Meanwhile, trusting public transportation would make you lose time on loop in between the same two stations forever.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 25 October 2020 - 05:42 AM

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User is online   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#12

A good thing to get a solid idea of height and speed would be to record a coop run and see how Duke compares to various props and map items and how fast he travels across the map.
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User is offline   ck3D 

#13

Maybe (or should be) common knowledge but for those who don't know, Duke's max jump height is of '20 Pg Up units' (so 20x1024=20480 Z units), sector and sprite constructions taller than that he won't be able to climb without assistance nor exploit, that's key to always have in mind while mapping as well as everything from here in general: https://infosuite.du...nces_dimensions instead of the F7 logic which indeed never made actual sense.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 25 October 2020 - 06:12 AM

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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#14

It is a fair point about Duke's in game height not being accurate. He looks like he's about a foot shorter than the strippers in the game.

Though i'd love to know how high Duke's jump height is on this scale.
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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#15

View PostOpenMaw, on 25 October 2020 - 09:11 AM, said:

It is a fair point about Duke's in game height not being accurate. He looks like he's about a foot shorter than the strippers in the game.

Though i'd love to know how high Duke's jump height is on this scale.


His in-game size is 42xrepeat, 36yrepeat. That's why when he's running around like a maniac, I think of him more as a Tom Cruise than a Dolph Lundgren. I'm not sure why they made his sprite height 36 when most of the in game characters and monsters are around 40. That's a 10% height difference which is quite significant. Perhaps they had already determined the camera height that felt right and then they squished down his sprite to match it.

If you look at the Duke cutout "you must be this tall to ride" sprite in Babeland, it is 40xrepeat 40yrepeat, and when you stand next to it it is taller than you.
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User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#16

So does that mean we should use the billboard as a base for the math? Or is that shorter than the strippers too?
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • 1776 World Wide

#17

Duke claims he wears a size 13 boot in the game, I don't know if that could help in any way. You could also compare Duke to the crashed car in Pig Sty, which appears to be like a 90s Lincoln four door, or the fire truck in Fahrenheit/Going Postal or the mail truck in Going Postal. Other real life objects that tend to be uniform in size are the manhole covers, toilets/urinals, fire extinguishers, fire hydrants, snack/drink machines.

Scaling in Duke3D is kind of bullshitted across the board honestly.
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