[the_raven]

I've been wondering about this.

In DN1, Duke spawns with some kind of energy weapon that shoots what looks to be lightning-bolts. I'm thinking that it's either an ion weapon, or some kind of electrical charge weapon because Dr. Proton's army consists primarily of robots and cyborgs, so it would make sense for Duke to use such a gun (the title-screen shows smoke coming out of its barrel which makes things confusing). On the offside, this gun has never been seen in any of the follow-up games, neither in the main series, nor in any of the spin-offs (unless you count the DN1 graffiti in DNMP). The closest to it, I suppose, could be either the Shrink Ray/ Expander from DN3D, or the DFG from DNF's 'Hail to the icons' dlc. However, since the Shrink Ray/ Expander is implied to be an alien weapon - at least the Shrink Ray is - it's highly unlikely to be it. Likewise, the DFG looks too different and shoots a different kind of energy bolt than the weapon in DN1. In fact, from the primitive DN1 textures it's not even fully clear whether the weapon is supposed to be a pistol or a rifle, although the DN1 title-screen does show it to be some kind of rifle or even a shotgun.
(in-game screenshot)
(title screen)

Onto the weapon in DN2. This much is simpler as both the game art¹ and the intro cutscene² show that it's an energy rifle or some kind¹, originally belonging to the Rigelatins². We don't know if the Rigelatins developed it, or captured it from a previously conquered alien species, but this doesn't even matter. It's barrel is vaguely (and strangely) similar to the gun in DN1, implying that it might have been an upscale. If that's the case, then this raises the question on which game's events actually take place first. The canon of DN being what it is, we may never get a proper answer, and with this in mind, I will continue to regard the weapon from DN2 to be different from the one in DN1.
(in-game loading screen)
(game art)
(fan re-imagining I found on the internet)

The white/ grey "shotgun" in DN3D's arts and cutscenes. We all know it, Duke's sprite carries it regardless of what weapon is actually equipped, Duke is seen carrying it during the post-boss-battle cutscenes, and in the inter-level screen, when he pumps it right before the next level starts. Why it never appeared as a playable weapon in the game itself, I don't know. I mean, the game already has a shotgun, so why not just have this thing instead of it? Still, when I was younger, I thought the RPG was this weapon because it's also grey/ white. Is it possible that this gun was made for the very early versions of DN3D and never removed?
(inter-level screen)

And a more misc question, since we're at the topic of Duke's guns and arts. What are these two guns, and why were they also never featured in the games? I remember seeing this artwork and being so excited, so when I got into the game and didn't find these exact guns, I was a tad disappointed.
(art/ title-screen for DN3D)

[dnskill]

the_raven, on 02 September 2020 - 02:59 AM, said:

I've been wondering about this.

In DN1, Duke spawns with some kind of energy weapon that shoots what looks to be lightning-bolts. I'm thinking that it's either an ion weapon, or some kind of electrical charge weapon because Dr. Proton's army consists primarily of robots and cyborgs, so it would make sense for Duke to use such a gun (the title-screen shows smoke coming out of its barrel which makes things confusing). On the offside, this gun has never been seen in any of the follow-up games, neither in the main series, nor in any of the spin-offs (unless you count the DN1 graffiti in DNMP). The closest to it, I suppose, could be either the Shrink Ray/ Expander from DN3D, or the DFG from DNF's 'Hail to the icons' dlc. However, since the Shrink Ray/ Expander is implied to be an alien weapon - at least the Shrink Ray is - it's highly unlikely to be it. Likewise, the DFG looks too different and shoots a different kind of energy bolt than the weapon in DN1. In fact, from the primitive DN1 textures it's not even fully clear whether the weapon is supposed to be a pistol or a rifle, although the DN1 title-screen does show it to be some kind of rifle or even a shotgun.

Duke uses a blaster in the first game. It is the size of a "long gun". A rifle or shotgun are both considered long guns or long arms. So Duke is using a "long arm" styled blaster cannon. It could be argued that it's a laser shotgun. The reason? Duke can use multiple projectile types. Rifles can have different bullet tips, but a shotgun can have different sized shells that do completely different things. So Duke definitely is using a prototype laser shotgun, which makes sense given the enemies he encounters in DN1. The difference between the title screen and in-game graphic is probably just an oversight. My guess is that the CIA gave Duke this prototype or Duke stole it from Dr. Proton.

the_raven, on 02 September 2020 - 02:59 AM, said:

Onto the weapon in DN2. This much is simpler as both the game art¹ and the intro cutscene² show that it's an energy rifle or some kind¹, originally belonging to the Rigelatins². We don't know if the Rigelatins developed it, or captured it from a previously conquered alien species, but this doesn't even matter. It's barrel is vaguely (and strangely) similar to the gun in DN1, implying that it might have been an upscale. If that's the case, then this raises the question on which game's events actually take place first. The canon of DN being what it is, we may never get a proper answer, and with this in mind, I will continue to regard the weapon from DN2 to be different from the one in DN1.

I think this is definitely a shotgun weapon that looks like a rifle, but it's not the same one from DN1. To me, it looks like a bullpup rifle, like the Steyr AUG. So it's not the same gun from the first game, but it's a better weapons in this game because now Duke needs to be able to shoot upward which he couldn't do in DN1. Also, Duke spawns with it, but it's not his gun. So it must be an alien gun.

the_raven, on 02 September 2020 - 02:59 AM, said:

The white/ grey "shotgun" in DN3D's arts and cutscenes. We all know it, Duke's sprite carries it regardless of what weapon is actually equipped, Duke is seen carrying it during the post-boss-battle cutscenes, and in the inter-level screen, when he pumps it right before the next level starts. Why it never appeared as a playable weapon in the game itself, I don't know. I mean, the game already has a shotgun, so why not just have this thing instead of it? Still, when I was younger, I thought the RPG was this weapon because it's also grey/ white. Is it possible that this gun was made for the very early versions of DN3D and never removed?

This one makes a lot of sense though. Duke uses a generic "All purpose" weapon in his animations in DN3D so that they wouldn't have to draw individual animations for each weapon. It looks like an RPG mixed with the Ripper and shotgun on purpose. It can be animated to depict any of those guns. Also, it's not "white/gray"... it's called "stainless steel".

the_raven, on 02 September 2020 - 02:59 AM, said:

And a more misc question, since we're at the topic of Duke's guns and arts. What are these two guns, and why were they also never featured in the games? I remember seeing this artwork and being so excited, so when I got into the game and didn't find these exact guns, I was a tad disappointed.

One is clearly meant to be a pistol. The other is likely a machine gun, but not an SMG. Chances are, the artist was told to draw something that looked cool, and they drew generic weapons for the same reason as why they drew a generic weapon for the sprites and model of Duke. These weapons ARE in the game, but they don't look like what's on the artwork. The alien Duke is on top of looks a lot more like an Enforcer, but is about the size of the Battlelord.

[MrFlibble]

the_raven, on 02 September 2020 - 02:59 AM, said:

The white/ grey "shotgun" in DN3D's arts and cutscenes. We all know it, Duke's sprite carries it regardless of what weapon is actually equipped, Duke is seen carrying it during the post-boss-battle cutscenes, and in the inter-level screen, when he pumps it right before the next level starts. Why it never appeared as a playable weapon in the game itself, I don't know. I mean, the game already has a shotgun, so why not just have this thing instead of it?

I'd say that this is the most confusing weapon because it seems to try being an automatic rifle and a pump-action shotgun at the same time. It's like a metaphor for the weapons he's actually using in the game without being anything specific.

Or maybe Duke is carrying it around with him purely for the purposes of posing because it's so cool and defies logic.

Also, consistency in 90s shareware game art? Possible but not really required.

[the_raven]

gerolf, on 02 September 2020 - 10:05 AM, said:

Duke uses a blaster in the first game. It is the size of a "long gun". A rifle or shotgun are both considered long guns or long arms. So Duke is using a "long arm" styled blaster cannon. It could be argued that it's a laser shotgun. The reason? Duke can use multiple projectile types. Rifles can have different bullet tips, but a shotgun can have different sized shells that do completely different things. So Duke definitely is using a prototype laser shotgun, which makes sense given the enemies he encounters in DN1. The difference between the title screen and in-game graphic is probably just an oversight. My guess is that the CIA gave Duke this prototype or Duke stole it from Dr. Proton.

I never actually saw it as a shotgun, but not that you've mentioned it, I suppose it's a possibility. I'm still not sure if it can be funny considered a shotgun though, even an energy shotgun: Duke doesn't pump it after all, and given the fact that shotgun shots have larger spread the farther they fly, it doesn't look like a shotgun because its shots fly in a straight line without any kind of spread, regardless of distance. The different projectiles are the same energy projectile that just becomes more powerful, or is shot at a higher speed. At least, that's the way I see it. But I do agree that it's a "long gun", especially if the title screen is anything to go by.

gerolf, on 02 September 2020 - 10:05 AM, said:

I think this is definitely a shotgun weapon that looks like a rifle, but it's not the same one from DN1. To me, it looks like a bullpup rifle, like the Steyr AUG. So it's not the same gun from the first game, but it's a better weapons in this game because now Duke needs to be able to shoot upward which he couldn't do in DN1. Also, Duke spawns with it, but it's not his gun. So it must be an alien gun.

Well yeah, of course it's different, the intro cutscene shows Duke take it from a weapons locker (if I remember correctly, there were several such guns in that locker too). I was just noting that the both the DN1's in-game gun and DN2's gun have a similar-looking barrel (attachment?). But yeah, they're different weapons. I also agree that it looks like a bullpup, though that's obviously not the case because the thing that reminds us of the bullpup mag is actually the gun's handle. Still, a nice observation. Also, I wouldn't go so far as to speak of Duke needing to shoot upwards, because they way I see it, it's just a game mechanic making use of the improved (new?) engine. I'm sure that if DN1 was done in the same engine, Duke would have been able to shoot upwards in it as well.

gerolf, on 02 September 2020 - 10:05 AM, said:

This one makes a lot of sense though. Duke uses a generic "All purpose" weapon in his animations in DN3D so that they wouldn't have to draw individual animations for each weapon. It looks like an RPG mixed with the Ripper and shotgun on purpose. It can be animated to depict any of those guns. Also, it's not "white/gray"... it's called "stainless steel".

Yeah, I guess you're right. It also saved the devs the time and effort making individual gun cutscenes, and also processing memory for the game. And yeah, "stainless steel", agreed.

gerolf, on 02 September 2020 - 10:05 AM, said:

One is clearly meant to be a pistol. The other is likely a machine gun, but not an SMG. Chances are, the artist was told to draw something that looked cool, and they drew generic weapons for the same reason as why they drew a generic weapon for the sprites and model of Duke. These weapons ARE in the game, but they don't look like what's on the artwork. The alien Duke is on top of looks a lot more like an Enforcer, but is about the size of the Battlelord.

Makes sense. As to the Enforcer being the size of a Battlelord, it may have simply been perspective. If you take a close look at the picture, you'll notice that the angle is looking a bit upward. So since the alien is closer to the camera, it appears bigger.

[the_raven]

MrFlibble, on 02 September 2020 - 10:51 AM, said:

I'd say that this is the most confusing weapon because it seems to try being an automatic rifle and a pump-action shotgun at the same time. It's like a metaphor for the weapons he's actually using in the game without being anything specific.

But where did you get the idea that it's an auto-rifle? I don't remember any cutscenes where Duke uses it as such?
Actually, if we look at its barrel, the lower "barrel" looks like a laser pointer, though obviously, there' no laser sights in the game itself, neither during the playable portions, nor in the cutscenes. Much like with the pistol, in fact.

MrFlibble, on 02 September 2020 - 10:51 AM, said:

Or maybe Duke is carrying it around with him purely for the purposes of posing because it's so cool and defies logic.

That would have been really funny, though it's not like Duke to carry a gun and not use it.

MrFlibble, on 02 September 2020 - 10:51 AM, said:

Also, consistency in 90s shareware game art? Possible but not really required.

Ah, true, true.

[Ninety-Six]

For what it's worth, the DN1 in-game instructions (or the help program, I forget) call his gun a "nuclear pistol." He does hold it one-handed in the in-game sprite, but with two hands on the title screen. I wonder if there wasn't a technical reason for that, or if they simply weren't sure how to draw a sprite that small holding it two-handed. Or maybe they wanted to animate his other arm swinging to show off that Duke didn't have a mirrored sprite when facing the other way?


As for if DN1 or 2 take place first, the intro cutscene to 2 specifically mentions Duke "beating Proton last year."

[High Treason]

Could have sworn I remembered the gun in DN2, at least, being called an 'The Anygun' somewhere, with some story about it being a high-tech weapon that could use multiple ammunition types, but this may simply have been a fan-invented name. We certainly called it that in the stupid things we drew and wrote in school about Duke back then.

[Hendricks266]

High Treason, on 02 September 2020 - 01:49 PM, said:

Could have sworn I remembered the gun in DN2, at least, being called an 'The Anygun' somewhere, with some story about it being a high-tech weapon that could use multiple ammunition types, but this may simply have been a fan-invented name. We certainly called it that in the stupid things we drew and wrote in school about Duke back then.

I vaguely recall something like that describing the gun Duke has in his Duke 3D player sprites, on the end of level screen, etc. Pretty sure it was a fan-given title in either case.

[Fox]

the_raven, on 02 September 2020 - 02:59 AM, said:

And a more misc question, since we're at the topic of Duke's guns and arts. What are these two guns, and why were they also never featured in the games? I remember seeing this artwork and being so excited, so when I got into the game and didn't find these exact guns, I was a tad disappointed.

These guns were created by the artist who painted the box art. AFAIK they were never featured in any game.

It appeared again in this artwork:

[Jimmy]

The Duke 3D model gun has some resemblance to the machine gun early Pig Cop sprites carry, as well as some of the design features of the Ripper chaingun.

[MrFlibble]

the_raven, on 02 September 2020 - 12:05 PM, said:

But where did you get the idea that it's an auto-rifle? I don't remember any cutscenes where Duke uses it as such?

It has the look, with the ammo magazine and the skeletal stock that is kinda similar to that of the Marine pulse rifle from Aliens. If this ain't a rifle, at least these elements look odd on a shotgun.

Jimmy, on 02 September 2020 - 08:23 PM, said:

The Duke 3D model gun has some resemblance to the machine gun early Pig Cop sprites carry

Wanted to point this out too.

[the_raven]

MrFlibble, on 03 September 2020 - 12:34 AM, said:

It has the look, with the ammo magazine and the skeletal stock that is kinda similar to that of the Marine pulse rifle from Aliens. If this ain't a rifle, at least these elements look odd on a shotgun.

Check this out, the list features shotguns that have both magazines and skeletal stocks. Ironically, the first such shotgun is a Kalashnikov.
Oh, the lengths weapon manufacturers go to for whatever reason!

[dnskill]

That's a fairly new design of shotgun. There's been magazine fed shotguns in the past, but this one is essentially a pump action shotgun in every way other than how it is loaded/unloaded. Most of the other shotguns that use magazines have been semi-automatic or full-auto. Duke used a mag-fed shotgun in Zero Hour.

[jet_nick]

the_raven, on 02 September 2020 - 02:59 AM, said:

I've been wondering about this.

In DN1, Duke spawns with some kind of energy weapon that shoots what looks to be lightning-bolts. I'm thinking that it's either an ion weapon, or some kind of electrical charge weapon because Dr. Proton's army consists primarily of robots and cyborgs, so it would make sense for Duke to use such a gun (the title-screen shows smoke coming out of its barrel which makes things confusing). On the offside, this gun has never been seen in any of the follow-up games, neither in the main series, nor in any of the spin-offs (unless you count the DN1 graffiti in DNMP). The closest to it, I suppose, could be either the Shrink Ray/ Expander from DN3D, or the DFG from DNF's 'Hail to the icons' dlc. However, since the Shrink Ray/ Expander is implied to be an alien weapon - at least the Shrink Ray is - it's highly unlikely to be it. Likewise, the DFG looks too different and shoots a different kind of energy bolt than the weapon in DN1. In fact, from the primitive DN1 textures it's not even fully clear whether the weapon is supposed to be a pistol or a rifle, although the DN1 title-screen does show it to be some kind of rifle or even a shotgun.
(in-game screenshot)
(title screen)

Onto the weapon in DN2. This much is simpler as both the game art¹ and the intro cutscene² show that it's an energy rifle or some kind¹, originally belonging to the Rigelatins². We don't know if the Rigelatins developed it, or captured it from a previously conquered alien species, but this doesn't even matter. It's barrel is vaguely (and strangely) similar to the gun in DN1, implying that it might have been an upscale. If that's the case, then this raises the question on which game's events actually take place first. The canon of DN being what it is, we may never get a proper answer, and with this in mind, I will continue to regard the weapon from DN2 to be different from the one in DN1.
(in-game loading screen)
(game art)
(fan re-imagining I found on the internet)

The white/ grey "shotgun" in DN3D's arts and cutscenes. We all know it, Duke's sprite carries it regardless of what weapon is actually equipped, Duke is seen carrying it during the post-boss-battle cutscenes, and in the inter-level screen, when he pumps it right before the next level starts. Why it never appeared as a playable weapon in the game itself, I don't know. I mean, the game already has a shotgun, so why not just have this thing instead of it? Still, when I was younger, I thought the RPG was this weapon because it's also grey/ white. Is it possible that this gun was made for the very early versions of DN3D and never removed?
(inter-level screen)

And a more misc question, since we're at the topic of Duke's guns and arts. What are these two guns, and why were they also never featured in the games? I remember seeing this artwork and being so excited, so when I got into the game and didn't find these exact guns, I was a tad disappointed.
(art/ title-screen for DN3D)

this gun (Mod chimera) is the same as the cover, right?

https://forums.duke4...attach_id=15467

[RichardStorm]

the_raven, on 02 September 2020 - 02:59 AM, said:

Onto the weapon in DN2. This much is simpler as both the game art¹ and the intro cutscene² show that it's an energy rifle or some kind¹, originally belonging to the Rigelatins². We don't know if the Rigelatins developed it, or captured it from a previously conquered alien species, but this doesn't even matter. It's barrel is vaguely (and strangely) similar to the gun in DN1, implying that it might have been an upscale. If that's the case, then this raises the question on which game's events actually take place first. The canon of DN being what it is, we may never get a proper answer, and with this in mind, I will continue to regard the weapon from DN2 to be different from the one in DN1.

As the Duke Nukem fan wiki says, Duke Nukem II is set a year after Duke Nukem I events (1997 -> 1998), as Duke says "I'm Back" after the glorious victory against Dr Proton, becoming famous and so on. When Duke gets captured by Rigelatins, escapes and finds that gun in a locker, it is more reasonable that it's a weapon manufactured by Rigelatins; it's most likely the ordnance rifle wielded by blue-suited guards, but for some reason Duke's gun fires red, more gun-like shots, rather than any other green laser-like shots, from such guards or turrets. Then duke remains on Rigel for the whole game, except when it follows the flying ship in the 4th episode, but anyway Duke have no contacts with Earth.
I'd discard the idea of that gun being a terran/Duke personal weapon, mainly because Duke carries no weapon during the TV transmission while he get kidnapped by Rigelatins. The only weapon he brings with himself is the "Explodo-Molar"

In definitive, DN1 and DN2 rifles are two different weapon.

What i can say about D3D guns:

MrFlibble, on 02 September 2020 - 10:51 AM, said:

Also, consistency in 90s shareware game art? Possible but not really required.

This. And they just used a multi-purpose weapon model for Duke Nukem sprite just for fitting any weapon they could insert in the game; anyway also LameDuke duke sprite got the same weapon, so one should question which weapon they intend to put in the game in beta version...

[oasiz]

I guess you could say that lameduke's blaster that eventually became the ripper kind of mirrors the blaster from duke1/2, I recall TX mentioning that they even experimented with alternate firemodes for it.
Also what Jimmy said, the early pigcop gun was very similar to the 3D "everygun".

I think all guns in 3D are just generic patchwork guns so that deathmatch sprites wouldn't seem too off.

[Jimmy]

As for the Duke3D title/cover art, something I've noticed is that while the gun in his right hand just looks like a made up pistol/SMG, the gun in his left bears striking resemblance to the Devastator. Interestingly, Total Meltdown's title screen has this gun revamped to look even more like the Devastator, while still making the same errors in it's depiction.

[KaijuTurtle]

I don't really have much to contribute insofar as the guns themselves are concerned but the 'fan re-imagining [you] found on the internet' was commissioned by new 3D Realms for their 3D Realms Anthology Collection back before they lost the rights to the IP altogether with the Bombshell fiasco. They hired someone to remake the Duke Nukem 2 box art as well as one of the more prominent Duke Nukem 1 shareware box arts (old ; new), and you can see them featured in the 'Duke Nukem Platformer Pack' trailer. Don't know why they used the DN1 cover for Manhattan Project at the end but whatever.

[necroslut]

Like someone mentioned, the DN1 gun is referred to in the instructions as the "Nuclear Pistol". Why it looks different in the title screen art? Well, the sprite and the title screen are drawn in very different art styles, with the title screen having much more realistic proportions, so it couldn't really look the same. Also, it's not necessarily meant to be the same gun, could just be some random gun.

The gun in the Duke II art is the same as the one he has in game, which is captured from the aliens in the intro and thus obviously an alien gun. It does have some visual similarities to the DN1 gun, but they are unrelated "in canon". I imagine they started by drawing a scaled up version of the Duke 1 sprite, the larger dimensions resulting in a change in style and the weapon being redesigned to fit, and that they from there made up a story for where it came from.

The Duke 3D "anygun" could be some early art left over, such as for the ripper. Since they couldn't do multiple sprites for the different weapons anyway, it was probably kept as it did a reasonable job in standing in for any of them. Like, what else would you do?

[duke3d.exe]

I remember being a kid and on the first map when you face a mirror for the first time and noticed that i was holding this big ass rifle, yet, i was equiped with a simple pistol. I suppose the devs were too lazy to implement every weapon on the duke sprite.. would have been cool to have that specially for multiplayer.

[necroslut]

duke3d.exe, on 19 September 2020 - 01:28 PM, said:

I remember being a kid and on the first map when you face a mirror for the first time and noticed that i was holding this big ass rifle, yet, i was equiped with a simple pistol. I suppose the devs were too lazy to implement every weapon on the duke sprite.. would have been cool to have that specially for multiplayer.

I'd wager it had more to do with memory limitations than laziness. Making sprites for each weapon would increase the number of tiles used for Duke tenfold (1x for each weapon).

[MrFlibble]

duke3d.exe, on 19 September 2020 - 01:28 PM, said:

implement every weapon on the duke sprite.. would have been cool to have that specially for multiplayer.

Considering the default low resolution the game originally ran at, the solution with showing the currently active weapon's icon above the player's sprite seems more efficient and user-friendly than baking every weapon into player animations -- you likely wouldn't be able to tell what the weapon was from such sprite anyway, half of the time at best.

[necroslut]

MrFlibble, on 25 September 2020 - 05:15 AM, said:

Considering the default low resolution the game originally ran at, the solution with showing the currently active weapon's icon above the player's sprite seems more efficient and user-friendly than baking every weapon into player animations -- you likely wouldn't be able to tell what the weapon was from such sprite anyway, half of the time at best.

Considering the speed of the game in multiplayer, at 320x200 it would be more like 5% of the time.