[Aristotle Gumball]

Do you find that you post less than you otherwise might, given that in a disagreement here, you might be called names or have your argument grossly misconstrued while everyone else just stands back and watches, out of fear (or simply annoyance) of having the same happen to them? Having to very carefully choose your words to avoid attacks? Walk on eggshells, as it were.

Because that happens everywhere that you allow belligerent assholes have free reign. And then the belligerent assholes on the other side start attacking, and the rest are pulled into the fight (and corrupted) or pushed out entirely. To an outside observer, it looks like there are only assholes.

That's the issue with Duke4.net as I see it, but it's a broader problem.

I consider alternate takes too. I don't subscribe to the standard narrative on anything.

[Radar]

Cartaphilus, on 23 July 2020 - 02:47 AM, said:

Radar is another one, but I think he's just a sheltered rich kid rebelling against his liberal parents.

Accurate.

But unlike the average Marxist with daddy/mommy issues, I actually love my parents even if we have our disagreements.

All of my sisters + brother-in-laws are very right wing. Even with liberal parents, left-wing values have a tough time surviving in a nuclear family with no history of divorce. That's why the left hates marriage and family.

[ck3D]

Cartaphilus, on 23 July 2020 - 04:44 AM, said:

Do you find that you post less than you otherwise might, given that in a disagreement here, you might be called names or have your argument grossly misconstrued while everyone else just stands back and watches, out of fear (or simply annoyance) of having the same happen to them? Having to very carefully choose your words to avoid attacks? Walk on eggshells, as it were.

Because that happens everywhere that you allow belligerent assholes have free reign. And then the belligerent assholes on the other side start attacking, and the rest are pulled into the fight (and corrupted) or pushed out entirely. To an outside observer, it looks like there are only assholes.

That's the issue with Duke4.net as I see it, but it's a broader problem.

Honestly I'm not sure - I post with the frequency I'm naturally tempted to post, then of course the frequency of every act we all do has to do with context, and how pleasant or unpleasant the experience first appears then turns out to be. I think it's just about reading the room. I have other interests that have me frequent other forums that are the polar opposite of this one in terms of the 'average political orientation' and on there I'll feel more free to express certain things without rubbing feathers, but also less free to express some other things. I think all in all people are just people and just the idea of an 'average political orientation' on a forum comprising a variety of users with different backgrounds and profiles is jokes. In a way that takes us back to placing people in boxes and although that's a tempting simplification, it would still be a mistake to make. I believe in intelligent communication and think it's important to keep talking to individuals as individuals and not as representatives (again) of this or that group, otherwise we're also falling into the exact same trap we criticize and probably placing ourselves in a box too. I find the idea of an 'average political orientation' to be just another mental construction in that sense. I've read some stuff in this thread that I personally can't get down with at all, but I'm also aware that every person tends to feel deeply justified in the way they think due to having their own singular background and vulnerabilities that eventually resulted in the construction of their reasoning thus far, then if you think you can contribute to another person's development in a constructive way I think attacks can only do so much.

And then there's stuff I've actually been reacting to, and I didn't feel any fear regarding putting my thoughts out there. I just try to comprehend the basic background of the person emitting what stimulates my reaction and then communicate accordingly and appropriately because the denial of cultural differences has to be one of the biggest obstacles there is to effective communication.

As a mapper though, not going to lie, I've had the thought of 'OK, who in the crowd is actually going to enjoy playing this creation of mine' spontaneously cross my mind before and in those moments of weakness, reading some of the stuff on here could get pretty depressing if I was naive and afraid of difference. But I'm not, and I believe maps are vehicles of emotions and artistic distraction for people to enjoy, and whoever finds joy in them is more than welcome to get all of it than they can take regardless of their profile, because joy is exactly what so many people are driven to lack in their lives and the more positivity everyone can get the better. Plus it would be silly for an author to imagine having any control over the accessibility of their public creation anyway - you don't create for some people, you create for all people, you create for humanity with all its quirks because it needs it. Not to mention that in this particular instance, this is a community of FPS enthusiasts so I think it's pretty logical to assume it's going to comprise quite a few people who are legitimately into guns (for example, and again of something I personally have no particular opinion on the subject of).

There are some troll profiles on here that I personally can't stand (they rarely post anyway) but I just skim over those posts and otherwise, most everyone I've ever engaged into a conversation with on here has always been respectful back and just as considerate of our cultural differences (except for johnnythewolf which I always strongly suspected was from my country, ironically enough). That's for my honest experience, since you were asking (and see, I'm not scared of posting it).

[Aristotle Gumball]

ck3D, on 23 July 2020 - 05:16 AM, said:

I believe in intelligent communication and think it's important to keep talking to individuals as individuals and not as representatives (again) of this or that group, otherwise we're also falling into the exact same trap we criticize and probably placing ourselves in a box too.

As the moderator of a forum, what would you do if intelligent communication such as the one you've described, continually fails due to the actions of a few specific members?

[ck3D]

That's funny, I've actually been in that spot (on countless of other forums, not on here). Arguably my levels of empathy and patience can be too strenuous for my own good at times (I actually question them quite regularly), but I was never ban-happy. Thinking about it and realizing it just now, the rare times it happened was always when someone was crossing the line over to real-life threats. The promiscuity of different personalities I always found more constructive in terms of general exchange, and it's only in the few rare cases I was mentioning earlier that the communication was really fruitless, giving off the idea that those folks had registered on a public message board just to get off to essentially hearing their own voice, now that's a complete waste of time but everyone knows it.

Also I gave up on moderating duties everywhere I was doing it over a decade ago, in retrospect I think because it was just fucking impossible working as some kind of agent in charge of regulating the compatibility between everybody's different personalities when it's a public website everyone will keep using anyway. Like, literally impossible, unless someone would really insist on pushing the limits to the point where they could have gotten sued for harassment and whatnot. And even when done with those profiles in particular, similar ones would always pop up again later down the line anyway - it just seems to be a logical pattern of sorts. People are and will be people.

[Aristotle Gumball]

ck3D, on 23 July 2020 - 05:41 AM, said:

similar profiles would always pop up again later anyway, it just seems to be a logical pattern.

True. There's no end to it.

You sound like someone who tries very hard to see every side, but I think you're exactly the kind of person at risk of being swept beneath the tide of stupidity when it does come. The smart ones usually are.

If I had my way, I'd just ban anyone who consistently straw man's the other persons argument, uses ad hominems and mischaracterizations, or generally just appears to be trying to win, rather than learn or reach a broader understanding.

When I felt no one was reading what the fuck I was saying, I just started doing what they were doing. At least that was more entertaining, but then, I've always been terrible in communities. I do much better one-on-one.

Johnnythewolf is Canadian by the way.

[ck3D]

I appreciate the concern. If you ask me I think I don't especially try to see every side, I just spontaneously see it and consider every singularity for what it is - I've been fortunate (well, not monetarily, but for that I made do) enough to focus on traveling and seeing a lot of the world quite early on in my existence, thus being exposed to a kaleidoscope of historical backgrounds and cultural profiles and to this day I work and am friends with lots of people in a variety of countries that I keep in touch with on a personal level regularly, and provide me with their local news and personal insight, so I think I'm somewhat in place to remain critical. Also that personal experience allows me to connect with the mindset of different cultures in a way that might be more accurate than if I only had a foreign, abstract representation of them. I have my own system of personal beliefs that I don't make a fuss about, too, but exists, so it's not like I'm completely devoid of my own reasoning and free to sway just about any way the wind presents itself. But I get the point you're trying to make and I've seen people I used to look up to as highly intelligent eventually fall into the shittiest of traps before. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, sometimes shit hits.

To me, your way of running a community sounds interesting on paper but at least myself, in your place I'd be scared of placing myself in that position of reference and indirectly start asserting my own views over said community. It's not that I don't trust myself, it's that I view message boards as websites where people should converge to exchange with each other and learn, that would also be my own case on the ones I would run or moderate, so to me it'd be (and was) tough placing barriers (again I eventually dropped the whole act for a reason).

Ha, johnnythewolf wasn't actually from my country then. But if French Canada, then close enough!

[Aristotle Gumball]

ck3D, on 23 July 2020 - 06:15 AM, said:

To me, your way of running a community sounds interesting on paper but at least myself, in your place I'd be scared of placing myself in that position of reference and indirectly start asserting my own views over said community. It's not that I don't trust myself, it's that I view message boards as websites where people should converge to exchange with each other and learn, that would also be my own case on the ones I would run or moderate, so to me it'd be (and was) tough placing barriers (again I eventually dropped the whole act for a reason).

Well, if it was my own forum, I would ban people I felt were unproductive and constantly breaking rules. If it's someone else's, of course I'd need their permission, but I wouldn't accept the role if they were going to question my judgment anyway. If I banned someone and it was reversed, I'd just stop moderating.

Quality over quantity. I don't mind a certain amount of elitism as long as it's for a good cause. People settle for too little these days.

IMO we should be showing to people what is possible, not what currently is. Same reason I fucking hate Star Trek Picard.

[Radar]

[Forge]

Cartaphilus, on 23 July 2020 - 05:54 AM, said:

If I had my way, I'd just ban anyone who consistently straw man's the other persons argument, uses ad hominems and mischaracterizations, or generally just appears to be trying to win, rather than learn or reach a broader understanding.

lulz

i made a post with a selfie of a blm supporter kneeling on the neck of a child. You acted shocked (feigned or not), then did a 180 when it was mentioned that the leaders of the organization that idiot was advertising for have been pushing rhetoric that promotes violence and hate since 2013.
The kneeling individual was basically doing what the leaders of his organization have been telling their community to do. He was obviously influenced by them to act out their doctrine.
You turn a blind eye because they have the same base marxist ideology that you have.
Then you go off on misdirection straw-man and ad hominem attacks. Blissfully and intentionally ignoring the recorded facts that show they are a violent group with leaders pushing said violence.
(btw, no I wasn't referring to cullors recorded interview - she used that statement elsewhere when specifically talking about dealing with those "racist police". Look it up and learn something, or just lazilly click on the first vox link you find. I don't care, you won't go against other marxist regardless.)

here's your bone (which I already hinted at) - Garza & Cullors were holding (internal) blm conferences and dictating Assata Shakur's 'teachings' as doctrine and methodology.
"Assata Taught Me"

You are a wonderful text book case of contradictions, manipulation, and circular reasoning.
Please do continue.

[Hank]

Cartaphilus, on 23 July 2020 - 12:56 AM, said:

Great. Hope they succeed.

They already have. Just look at some sports events, political events and watch all their worshipers kneeling.
They are the most welcomed smoke screen to stupefy the rebels without a clue, deflecting from the actual totalitarian system currently being implemented.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Forge, on 23 July 2020 - 07:34 AM, said:

god i love being white

That's cool bro

[Radar]

I'm sorry you hate being white.

[Aristotle Gumball]

R A D A Я, on 23 July 2020 - 07:46 AM, said:

I'm sorry you hate being white.

I'm sorry your dad forced you to read Marx.

[Radar]

Nobody actually reads Marx.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Oh really? What a pity.

This is something I wrote recently, maybe you'll enjoy it:

The history of all hitherto existing society [2] is the history of class struggles.

Freeman and slave, patrician and plebian, lord and serf, guild-master [3] and journeyman, in a word, oppressor and oppressed, stood in constant opposition to one another, carried on an uninterrupted, now hidden, now open fight, a fight that each time ended, either in a revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes.

In the earlier epochs of history, we find almost everywhere a complicated arrangement of society into various orders, a manifold gradation of social rank. In ancient Rome we have patricians, knights, plebians, slaves; in the Middle Ages, feudal lords, vassals, guild-masters, journeymen, apprentices, serfs; in almost all of these classes, again, subordinate gradations.

The modern bourgeois society that has sprouted from the ruins of feudal society has not done away with class antagonisms. It has but established new classes, new conditions of oppression, new forms of struggle in place of the old ones.

Our epoch, the epoch of the bourgeoisie, possesses, however, this distinct feature: it has simplified class antagonisms. Society as a whole is more and more splitting up into two great hostile camps, into two great classes directly facing each other -- bourgeoisie and proletariat.

[Radar]

And yet, far-left governments never happen to eliminate class hierarchies. Marx lied; people died.

[Forge]

[Aristotle Gumball]

R A D A Я, on 23 July 2020 - 08:15 AM, said:

And yet, far-left governments never happen to eliminate class hierarchies. Marx lied; people died.

I don't disagree. Not a Marxist by the way. Never was.

I don't think Marx "lied", though; he simply didn't know any better.

[Radar]

Oh, he knew exactly what he was doing.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Ohh okay then.

[Jimmy]

Cartaphilus, on 23 July 2020 - 02:47 AM, said:

I don't know about Jimmy beyond some health troubles and being the son of a preacher, which must be a mindfuck in itself.

You don't know anything about me. I don't have any "health troubles" (I have a minor spinal disease that doctors said won't bother me in any major way until I'm geriatric) and my father wasn't a pastor until I was already a man. You don't know me, nigga. Stop pretending you do.

You know who tends to have "traumas"? People who sit around compiling information about people they don't even know.

Cartaphilus, on 23 July 2020 - 04:44 AM, said:

Do you find that you post less than you otherwise might, given that in a disagreement here, you might be called names or have your argument grossly misconstrued while everyone else just stands back and watches, out of fear (or simply annoyance) of having the same happen to them? Having to very carefully choose your words to avoid attacks? Walk on eggshells, as it were.

Because that happens everywhere that you allow belligerent assholes have free reign. And then the belligerent assholes on the other side start attacking, and the rest are pulled into the fight (and corrupted) or pushed out entirely. To an outside observer, it looks like there are only assholes.

That's the issue with Duke4.net as I see it, but it's a broader problem.

People like MRCK. He gets the benefit of the doubt. The only people who get attacked are disingenuous pests like you and JohnnyTheWolf. You don't actually care about the community (you have said so yourself) and only care to harm it somehow.

R A D A Я, on 23 July 2020 - 07:46 AM, said:

I'm sorry you hate being white.

Estonians aren't white.

[Aristotle Gumball]

/Defiatron\, on 23 July 2020 - 12:53 PM, said:

You know who tends to have "traumas"? People who sit around compiling information about people they don't even know.

Most of what I mentioned I gleaned from posts here and there. Didn't even go looking for it. Unlike you, I actually read and pay attention.

Someone told me in private about a certain members mental disorder, but I suspect that's not some closely held secret either. They brought it up. Radar was just obvious.

/Defiatron\, on 23 July 2020 - 12:53 PM, said:

You don't actually care about the community (you have said so yourself) and only care to harm it somehow.

I don't care about the shittier aspects of it. Turds like you for instance. And yeah, I consider this place to be a dead end and final resting place for the Build community. If you, Forge, Radar and a few other morons were kicked out, I think the forum would quickly repopulate with better people.

Never gonna happen, but hey, at least I tried.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Cartaphilus, on 23 July 2020 - 07:44 AM, said:

That's cool bro

Demoting someone's opinion due to their race, is racism.

I don't know why you try to fight something that you perpetuate yourself.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Morpheus Kitami, on 23 July 2020 - 06:34 PM, said:

If only there were other Build ports that had their own forums. You know, on a site that has the kind of moderation you like, but the people you hate with every fiber of your being would never touch with a ten foot pole. Ah, what a shame that such a place only exists inside the razed remains of our dreams.

Beautifully put. It is a shame indeed.

[Forge]

Cartaphilus, on 23 July 2020 - 01:10 PM, said:

Most of what I mentioned I gleaned from posts here and there.

If you, Forge, Radar and a few other morons were kicked out

the same cancel culture mentality that went after Ion Fury
textbook far left fascist tactic

Cartaphilus, on 23 July 2020 - 01:10 PM, said:

Never gonna happen

[Aristotle Gumball]

Except Ion Fury actually had quality content.

[Forge]

Cartaphilus, on 24 July 2020 - 07:06 AM, said:

Except Ion Fury actually had quality content.

and your echo-chamber group went after it anyway


and why would it stop at censoring just a few forum denizen? There is no line drawn at which to cease controlling the narrative. Duke Nukem itself is a cis-white male. Racist. Misogynist. Xenophobe. Homophobe. Transphobe. etc., etc., etc.

shut it down. shut it all down.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Forge, on 24 July 2020 - 08:44 AM, said:

and why would it stop at censoring just a few forum denizen? There is no line drawn at which to cease controlling the narrative. Duke Nukem itself is a cis-white male. Racist. Misogynist. Xenophobe. Homophobe. Transphobe. etc., etc., etc.

Because the slippery slope only exists in your head (unless you wanna call the staff of Duke4 a bunch of morons who can't tell right from wrong). Duke Nukem is a fucking parody. You idiots make it a symbol for something else.

Now go on, have the last word.

[Forge]

Cartaphilus, on 24 July 2020 - 08:49 AM, said:

Because the slippery slope only exists in your head.

cannibals eat themselves until there's only one left. Then it starves.

you have obviously been knocking over too many statues and forgotten the history of your culture