[Radar]

A kind moderator suggested that I try posting political content in General Discussion again. This thread can be about anything. I'm only posting this here because this would have been my next post in one of the Outhouse threads.


Just this week, President Trump has changed a longstanding US policy on the status of Israeli "settlements" in the "west bank". The US no longer recognizes Jews living in the "west bank" as illegitimate, or Muslims living in the area as under "occupation".

https://apnews.com/3...91a7d4ae9ab4e57

The most ironic thing about this is that Trump is always attacked by the left for being an antisemite, or "inciting" antisemitism, yet in reality Trump may just be the most philo-semitic president in American history.

Meanwhile, the progressive, tolerant, and "liberal" EU has recently ruled that products produced in the "west bank" must be labeled as made in "Israeli settlements". Is it 1930s Germany again?

https://apnews.com/9...eb9eb0d1491184a

This truly is a clown world.


P.S. I hope this goes without saying, but let's try to keep this thread out of the Outhouse.


EDIT: Fixed the links. My stupid phone appended weird white space characters at the end of them.

[Seb Luca]

Quote

This truly is a clown world.

Clowns are funny ; human world is not

[Sledgehammer]

Haven't seen leftists calling him an antisemite, likely because they know he's not the one and because they would make look themselves like total morons, which is why they're trying to play it safe, I guess. Not to mention illegals which is a big deal, but later on that.

It's always "racist" with him, but that's about where it usually ends, at least this is what I'm getting from reading about him if we speak of "racial discrimination", which of course they're pulling out of their asses too. It is pretty amusing to watch how the media still goes with this old narrative, by the way, especially after Trump dropped his plans in regards of illegal immigration and stated it many times that he won't get rid of them in the end (hell, even deportations percentage during Obama's presidency was higher than during Trump). It's so bad, leftists themselves still believe this total bs, unlike a lot of right-wingers who feel betrayed by him right now due to this specific broken promise (and they don't plan to vote him for this). Those right-wingers also jokingly (not) claim that the media keeps "racism" narrative in a desperate attempt to lure the most naive right-wingers into thinking that he's still is absolutely the most right-wing politician in the entire history of American presidency (or alt-right which is just a buzzword term) and that Trump totally will get rid of illegals one day and totally will build that wall (which gets mentioned to calm the tits of right-wingers when Trump does something for the left or the Jews), and you know, they kind of have a point (though at the same time they were wrong if they seriously believed he was a typical right-wing guy, despite the fact that he even was on the dem side in the past). Speaking of broken promises or bs, not so long US military got back to Syria (which surprises no one).

The reality is that in the end, Trump is no different than Putin, both are pretty left-leaning, I'd call even centrists since they both are trying to appease to both the right and the left (or better yet the people and the elites), at best they support civic nationalism while they also don't really oppose illegal immigration either. The biggest difference though is that Trump is trying to keep that image of an "ebil" right-winger republican on social media, that he totally opposes the left, "seriously guize", but it's really just trolling most of the time. Just in case, before someone tries to call me a "leftard" (just kidding, but you get the point), well, I don't say he's bad, hell, I complimented him by calling him a centrist even, that he still do support some interests of the people, but yeh, the only thing I'd say I don't envy Americans anymore, just as I don't envy Russians (at some point Japanese people admired Putin just like they admire Trump too, in fact, many still admire them both for being strong leaders, I did too, but not for too long). Abe and liberals just don't look like the worst option anymore.

Now, getting back to antisemitism, democrats are the ones that are openly antisemitic (as you mentioned too, Radar), which too is ironic. However, I'm not sure if the dems are getting called out on that by leftist media either, haven't seen the media calling them literally "antisemitic", you know, straightforward and with no some implication words, not even Omar who is definitely the most known antisemitic dem right now. I just gotta admit that it's funny to watch how the dems now feel betrayed just because Trump took their precious Jews away from them, among other things. They're even acting like kids who are very envy of that other kid who has a very expensive and cool toys now, they're so desperate they're trying to do everything to take it away, their enviousness is so bad they're ready to forget their supposed ideals just so they can get rid of the wrong guy who does not oppose them on many things (I mean, they actually hate Jews now just because of Trump, although they hate whites too, but I wouldn't say republicans support whites and rather go with the same "minority" rhetoric, so they're the same to me, not that I considered republicans to be very different from the dems). I hope censorship ends badly for the left, on global level preferably, by the way.

Seb Luca, on 20 November 2019 - 12:32 PM, said:

Clowns are funny ; human world is not

[Mark]

I'm tired. Post too long...I...think...we...should........snore...snore....

[Hank]

Radar 100 Watts, on 20 November 2019 - 10:48 AM, said:

... cut
Meanwhile, the progressive, tolerant, and "liberal" EU has recently ruled that products produced in the "west bank" must be labeled as made in "Israeli settlements".

... cut

Canada also.
https://www.jurist.o...duct-of-israel/
A Canadian Federal Court ruled Monday that wines produced in Israeli settlements in the West Bank, cannot be marked with “Product of Israel” but must be clearly labeled as a product of an Israeli settlement.

In addition - Canada reverses UN stance on Palestinians in break with U.S. over settlements
https://www.cbc.ca/n...el-us-1.5365637
Canada voted for a UN resolution on Tuesday in support of Palestinians' right to self-determination.

The vote marks a major departure for Canada, which has declined to support substantially the same resolution through 14 consecutive votes since Stephen Harper came to power in 2006.

[Zaxx]

Radar 100 Watts, on 20 November 2019 - 10:48 AM, said:

The US no longer recognizes Jews living in the "west bank" as illegitimate, or Muslims living in the area as under "occupation".

That's great but uh... the West Bank is not part of Israel and it is objectively occupied territory. Antisemitism has nothing to with that really so I don't get ya guys.

I also never heard anyone call Trump an anti-semite, usually the guy gets the "general" racist thrown at him because he doesn't seem to be too fond of black dudes.

Edit: But seriously, like, this is the map of Israel:

What's not there? Right, the West Bank.

[Radar]

Israel won the West Bank fair and square in the 6 Day War. But even if they didn't, why should Jews be internationally treated with contempt for living there?

[Zaxx]

I don't think the Jews are treated with contempt, it's just that Israel wasn't exactly established under great circumstances and that baggage is pretty heavy compared to how border disputes are treated these days. It's not exactly fun there, you know, I have some family in Israel and oh, the stories they tell. They should resolve this stuff and really the only thing that could accomplish that is the so called two state solution with both Israel and Palestine being sovereign states so what Trump's doing (or really anything the US and Israel have done in any shape or form so far, this really has nothing to do with Trump honestly) is not helping that. I mean okay, you can say that it belongs to Israel because their military won but that won't change the fact that the vast majority of the population is Palestinian: that wouldn't work out well under Israel.

And that's where the contempt is coming from: it's not directed at the people but at the Israeli and US politics. Too many people killed each other for various reasons and that's just sad.

[Danukem]

Radar 100 Watts, on 20 November 2019 - 10:48 AM, said:

P.S. I hope this goes without saying, but let's try to keep this thread out of the Outhouse.

In that context, the flame motif and the "pure fire" tag are questionable choices, since you want to establish that such a thread can exist without a flame war.

I believe that we can have strong disagreements but fight clean and show respect to each other. I could be wrong, though, and I will look like a fool for encouraging this if I'm proven wrong.

[Sledgehammer]

Zaxx, on 20 November 2019 - 09:19 PM, said:

I don't think the Jews are treated with contempt

Pretty much. No one even complain about Jews either these days (especially not leftists which is ironic since they're supposed to love and protect muslims, but Palestine is usually an exception), aside from Arabs, some right-wingers and a bunch of Jews that consider Israel a huge mistake on it's own. Israel has no real opposition towards their actions anyway, which is why nothing has happened after Golan occupation as well (and America simply give them what they want anyway). Compare that to Crimea annexation.

Zaxx, on 20 November 2019 - 09:19 PM, said:

the only thing that could accomplish that is the so called two state solution with both Israel and Palestine being sovereign states

There is more possibility for true communism to happen.

[Kyanos]

Radar 100 Watts, on 20 November 2019 - 08:43 PM, said:

Israel won the West Bank fair and square in the 6 Day War. But even if they didn't, why should Jews be internationally treated with contempt for living there?

As if you believe yourself. IMO this question should be answered with a few quotes from the protocols.

Quote

The second secret requisite for the success of our government is comprised in the following: To multiply to such an extent national failings, habits, passions, conditions of civil life, that it will be impossible for anyone to know where he is in the resulting chaos, so that the people in consequence will fail to understand one another. This measure will also serve us in another way, namely, to sow discord in all parties, to dislocate all collective forces which are still unwilling to submit to us, and to discourage any kind of personal initiative which might in any degree hinder our affair. THERE IS NOTHING MORE DANGEROUS THAN PERSONAL INITIATIVE: if it has genius behind it, such initiative can do more than can be done by millions of people among whom we have sown discord.

Quote

FOR A TIME PERHAPS WE MIGHT BE SUCCESSFULLY DEALT WITH BY A COALITION OF THE "PEOPLE" OF ALL THE WORLD: but from this danger we are secured by the discord existing among them whose roots are so deeply seated that they can never now be plucked up. We have set one against another the personal and national reckonings of the PEOPLE, religious and race hatreds, which we have fostered into a huge growth in the course of the past twenty centuries. This is the reason why there is not one State which would anywhere receive support if it were to raise its arm, for every one of them must bear in mind that any agreement against us would be unprofitable to itself. We are too strong—there is no evading our power. THE NATIONS CANNOT COME TO EVEN AN INCONSIDERABLE PRIVATE AGREEMENT WITHOUT OUR SECRETLY HAVING A HAND IN IT.

Quote

Capital, if it is to co-operate untrammelled, must be free to establish a monopoly of industry and trade: this is already being put in execution by an unseen hand in all quarters of the world. This freedom will give political force to those engaged in industry, and that will help to oppress the people. Nowadays it is more important to disarm the peoples than to lead them into war: more important to use for our advantage the passions which have burst into flames than to quench their fire: more important to eradicate them. THE PRINCIPLE OBJECT OF OUR DIRECTORATE CONSISTS IN THIS: TO DEBILITATE THE PUBLIC MIND BY CRITICISM; TO LEAD IT AWAY FROM SERIOUS REFLECTIONS CALCULATED TO AROUSE RESISTANCE; TO DISTRACT THE FORCES OF THE MIND TOWARDS A SHAM FIGHT OF EMPTY ELOQUENCE.

[Radar]

Sledgehammer, on 20 November 2019 - 01:56 PM, said:

Haven't seen leftists calling him an antisemite, likely because they know he's not the one and because they would make look themselves like total morons, which is why they're trying to play it safe, I guess. Not to mention illegals which is a big deal, but later on that.

The "Trump is an antisemite" rhetoric comes out every time there's an antisemitic hate crime over here or whenever Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib talk.

Zaxx, on 20 November 2019 - 09:19 PM, said:

I don't think the Jews are treated with contempt, it's just that Israel wasn't exactly established under great circumstances and that baggage is pretty heavy compared to how border disputes are treated these days.

This isn't a fair critique of Israel considering this describes the entire middle-east.

Zaxx, on 20 November 2019 - 09:19 PM, said:

It's not exactly fun there, you know, I have some family in Israel and oh, the stories they tell. They should resolve this stuff and really the only thing that could accomplish that is the so called two state solution with both Israel and Palestine being sovereign states so what Trump's doing (or really anything the US and Israel have done in any shape or form so far, this really has nothing to do with Trump honestly) is not helping that.

The 2-state solution is full hypocrisy. No other Western country thinks twice about splitting itself up to appease ingratiating minorities. Why Israel is subject to this kind of global pressure is idiotic.

Zaxx, on 20 November 2019 - 09:19 PM, said:

I mean okay, you can say that it belongs to Israel because their military won but that won't change the fact that the vast majority of the population is Palestinian: that wouldn't work out well under Israel.And that's where the contempt is coming from: it's not directed at the people but at the Israeli and US politics. Too many people killed each other for various reasons and that's just sad.

Because of Israeli "oppression", or "palestinian" aggression?

Trooper Dan, on 20 November 2019 - 09:37 PM, said:

In that context, the flame motif and the "pure fire" tag are questionable choices, since you want to establish that such a thread can exist without a flame war. I believe that we can have strong disagreements but fight clean and show respect to each other. I could be wrong, though, and I will look like a fool for encouraging this if I'm proven wrong.

Heheh this never occurred to me. The fire emoji originates from Snapchat. I have an 8 year old nephew that looks at online pics and says "this meme is pure fire". These motifs were intended to signify a playful nature for this thread.

[Radar]

Photonic, on 21 November 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

As if you believe yourself. IMO this question should be answered with a few quotes from the protocols.

Spoiler

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are a fraudulent text. Please do not troll here.

In other news, behold, the greatest political scandal of our time:

Spoiler

F A R T G A T E

[Jimmy]

Zaxx, on 20 November 2019 - 08:13 PM, said:

[Trump] doesn't seem to be too fond of black dudes.

[CITATION NEEDED]

[Jimmy]

Radar 100 Watts, on 21 November 2019 - 03:19 PM, said:

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are a fraudulent text. Please do not troll here.

My only problem with calling the Protocols fraudulent is that you can clearly see what was outlined in them put in place in our world today. Now does that mean they're "real"? No. But there is a cabal out there doing exactly what the Protocols describe, made up of Jew and Gentile alike.

I think the Protocols were fraudulently created and propagated by the very people who intended to do those things to discredit those that would go against them. Using anti-Semitism is a common wedge used by this Cabal to skirt criticism.

[Forge]

Sledgehammer, on 20 November 2019 - 01:56 PM, said:

Haven't seen leftists calling him an antisemite, likely because they know he's not the one and because they would make look themselves like total morons, which is why they're trying to play it safe,

https://www.breitbar...gogue-shooting/

https://www.sun-sent...p7we-story.html


etc. etc etc.

[Forge]

Jesus is King, on 21 November 2019 - 03:38 PM, said:

[CITATION NEEDED]

which one do you want?

huffpost, theguardian, vox, wapo, thedailybeast, nytimes, usatoday, theatlantic?

i can't find an article that isn't in a hillary for pres. owned publication

[Radar]

Jesus is King, on 21 November 2019 - 03:43 PM, said:

My only problem with calling the Protocols fraudulent is that you can clearly see what was outlined in them put in place in our world today. Now does that mean they're "real"? No. But there is a cabal out there doing exactly what the Protocols describe, made up of Jew and Gentile alike.

I think the Protocols were fraudulently created and propagated by the very people who intended to do those things to discredit those that would go against them. Using anti-Semitism is a common wedge used by this Cabal to skirt criticism.

A broken clock is right twice a day. It's also notable what the Protocols never mention. For all the talk about Zionism, the Protocols are not even a Zionist document.

[Kyanos]

Radar 100 Watts, on 21 November 2019 - 03:19 PM, said:

Spoiler

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are a fraudulent text. Please do not troll here.

Quote

fair and square

https://en.wikipedia...the_Six-Day_War

Stop trying to distract from Benji's indictment. Or is it the yacht fires?? Any news on the powerpuff girls???

Seriouslly though, you asked a pre-loaded question and are fanning your own flames, everyone knows that Jews are not Israel and the protocols are not Jews, and people are just people some worse than others... but who am I to judge... ... ... maybe in '52 we'll see.

[Radar]

What makes you think I care about Benji? I just care about Isreal. Whether Benji goes or stays makes no difference to me.

Photonic, on 21 November 2019 - 04:58 PM, said:

everyone knows that Jews are not Israel

Somebody tell Israel this.

[Jimmy]

Radar 100 Watts, on 21 November 2019 - 04:14 PM, said:

A broken clock is right twice a day. It's also notable what the Protocols never mention. For all the talk about Zionism, the Protocols are not even a Zionist document.

Like I said, it's intentionally crafted to shield against future criticism + inspire boneheads to hate the Juice™.

[Sledgehammer]

Radar 100 Watts, on 21 November 2019 - 03:11 PM, said:

The "Trump is an antisemite" rhetoric comes out every time there's an antisemitic hate crime over here or whenever Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib talk.

Forge, on 21 November 2019 - 04:00 PM, said:

etc. etc etc.

I see. Looks like someone is getting very desperate (even projecting their own believes onto their enemies, even though no one buys it).


Not that it will help them to get Jews and Israel back on their side.

Radar 100 Watts, on 21 November 2019 - 03:11 PM, said:

The 2-state solution is full hypocrisy. No other Western country thinks twice about splitting itself up to appease ingratiating minorities. Why Israel is subject to this kind of global pressure is idiotic.

UN whining and leftist complaining doesn't count and in truth are completely irrelevant. In the end, Israel keeps steady relationship with everyone, including UN countries, which matters the most. There is no economical pressure (the only pressure that matters) and there will be none in the future. I envy Israel for that. Though maybe if Japan risked getting Takeshima back no one aside from UN would give a damn. Hard to say, US still values S.Korea more than it cares about Palestine, Syria or Arabs.

Radar 100 Watts, on 21 November 2019 - 05:23 PM, said:

Somebody tell Israel this.

Israel is a pretty complicated state, probably even more than America, especially if we speak of "politics", "religion" and "ethnic". Right now it's full of people from ex-USSR regions and ton of various semites, including muslims of course. Israel creation was a big mess on its own too for this reason (want to make big emphasis on UN plan).


The same can be said about Jews themselves (which is why there was a discussion about Jews being a race by blood or by religion around here). The Jews in the West (not just in Europe, but also in America) are different from Israelis as well (and some people even say the former are very soft compared to the latter). Zionists don't even hold the major power in Israel.

[Kyanos]

https://en.wikipedia..._Megiddo_(1918)

Your historical gif is way too short, skips all of WW1. The works of Britain and US in the early 20th century really cleared some space, with the help of an arab revolt, aka a foreign intelligence psychological campaign.

[Hank]

It ain’t that complicated. The current State of Israel was enforced by the old British Empire, a long time ago. This empire exhilarated in making borders to suit their needs, and in this case against the growing threat of Arabic countries.
Oh no, they (Good Empire) claim, we are not your enemy, the 'bad' guys are. They are the ones you need to deal with. - And then quietly feed military goods to the good guys, and not to evil bad guys; as defined by the media propaganda.
Now the US, the new empire, is following this theme. Good for those who invested in Oil, military tech or what ever; not so good for those suffering under this harsh reality (Iraq for example), of what is real and what is not real – claimed by those in power.
Yes, I’m pro Israel; an honest hypocrite! My country of birth was/still is forced to 'donate' billions of dollars to this poor, well deserving, ehm country. Now we (fam) make a profit, by realizing this farce, and acting accordingly in better investments.
Thank you UK/USA - LIFE IS VERY GOOD.

[PokeThePower]

I have slowly come to realize that my ethnic and namesake heritage is the most gaslit and abused faction in history.

I have little empathy left.

[Sledgehammer]

Photonic, on 22 November 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

https://en.wikipedia..._Megiddo_(1918)

Your historical gif is way too short, skips all of WW1. The works of Britain and US in the early 20th century really cleared some space, with the help of an arab revolt, aka a foreign intelligence psychological campaign.

That wasn't the point. My goal was to show what a mess Israel was when they finally decided to create it officially as a state (even after they cleaned the place, speaking of which), that they still couldn't establish a normal state after what was done here, in fact, Israel still has too much troubles with arabs and the course continues of course to this day with the aid of US and a bunch of other countries. I think the gif worked fine in that context (though I mostly wanted to show the UN plan). Anyway, good one. The history about Israel before its establishment is very interesting in general and rarely people talk about it.

Hank, on 22 November 2019 - 07:54 PM, said:

My country of birth was/still is forced to 'donate' billions of dollars to this poor, well deserving, ehm country.

Don't worry, yours ex wasn't and still isn't the only one. Though it's hard to find numbers if we speak of Canada's generous (or maybe not so, pretty confusing situation) aid for Israeli protection against terrorist state of Palestine (which they supported at some point before Harper administration as far as I remember). At the moment it definitely looks like Canada is trying to sit on two chairs, especially giving the fact that Israel is still not one of the sanctioned countries in Canada (it never was and never will be ever) or that they have a healthy economical relationship too despite those laughable "protests" in UN and in regards of wine and some other things. Though Palestine aid resume would be very interesting, I bet Israel would be very pissed by that.

OccludeOlgaOculus, on 23 November 2019 - 03:10 AM, said:

I have slowly come to realize that my ethnic and namesake heritage is the most gaslit and abused faction in history.

I have little empathy left.

Yes, but have you paid your taxes to support this poor, well deserving, ehm country?

[Forge]

OccludeOlgaOculus, on 23 November 2019 - 03:10 AM, said:

I have slowly come to realize that my ethnic and namesake heritage is the most gaslit and abused faction in history.

I have little empathy left.

an Inquisition is required

[Forge]

Israel is a Samaritan state, not Jewish.

there. said it.

[Mark]

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

[Sledgehammer]

Mark, on 23 November 2019 - 07:30 AM, said:

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

You're hundred decades too late, old men.