[Arjak]

Hello, everyone! I'm new around here.

As a gamer growing up, I fell in love with early FPS games. I played Doom and Wolfenstein to death, downloading new maps and playing everything that I could find. I wanted to get my hands on anything I could find that would give me the same feeling. That's how I discovered Duke.

As a preteen boy who loved first-person shooters, it should've been a match made in heaven, but for some reason, at the time the game just didn't gel with me. It was too difficult, even on the easiest setting. I didn't notice all the care and craft that went into the interactive environments. I didn't understand the importance of saving mid-level. I got bored and frustrated and moved on to other things.

Still, the franchise wouldn't leave my mind. I did eventually play the earlier 2D platformers and enjoy them somewhat, but it always bothered me that, despite everyone loving Duke 3D, I never really understood it.

Until now.

With all the hype and controversy surrounding the release of Ion Fury, I decided to give DN3D another shot. Several days ago, I installed the latest version of eDuke32, popped in my copy of the Atomic Edition, and decided I was going to complete L.A. Meltdown no matter what.

Well, a couple nights ago, I finally did it. I beat the first episode on Piece of Cake, and I'm happy to say that I finally understand what all the fuss was about.

As a kid who was used to the straightforwardness of Doom, I missed out on a lot of the gags and secrets found by interacting with the environments. As an adult who could appreciate the craft and nuance of all the little details, I was floored. I was now experimenting with everything I could think of, even knocking all the balls on the pool table in Red Light District into the holes, just to see if something would happen.

When I finally reached the crashed alien ship in The Abyss and beat the difficult boss inside, I felt a sense of pride for finally giving the game a fair chance. The next morning, I registered here, having to tell someone all about it who would understand. I have finally embraced Duke Nukem 3D.

A few of my favorite moments from Episode 1:

-Finding the hidden map to a secret in Death Row. At first, I couldn't figure out how to get past the laser sensors without blowing up. Then I got the idea to throw a pipe bomb. When I finally threw it just right and blew up the sensors, I was so proud of myself!

-Approaching the plaque in The Abyss. Just reading about the San Andreas fault is enough to set it off!

-Going crazy over trying to figure out how to get into the room over the broken bridge in The Abyss before finally giving up and moving on. What a disappointment!

-Exploring the cliffs in The Abyss, only to find a cavewoman dancing in front of a fire surrounded by Atomic Health power-ups. Holy Sh*t, indeed!

-Getting nervous about how many power-ups were just being thrown at me as I approached the wrecked ship. I knew that a boss had to be coming up!

I can't wait to play Lunar Apocalypse. I'll definitely have to let you guys know how that goes. Until then, peace!

[DisgustedGrunt]

Make those alien bastards pay.

[NightFright]

A fair warning: Many out there hate Lunar Apocalypse. I think it's very atmospheric. Just play it and make up your own mind.

[Ninety-Six]

NightFright, on 24 August 2019 - 11:50 AM, said:

A fair warning: Many out there hate Lunar Apocalypse. I think it's very atmospheric. Just play it and make up your own mind.

It's my favorite episode out of the original four, personally. Though I am aware that I'm in the minuscule minority.

[Tea Monster]

Remember, nobody steals your chicks, and lives.

[Zaxx]

Arjak, on 24 August 2019 - 08:15 AM, said:

I can't wait to play Lunar Apocalypse.

[Sledgehammer]

You forgot to write a hint to this pic. Something like "See this fucker? His name is Sentry Drone and you'll never forget him for the rest of your life, especially the sound he makes".

Though under this context I'd say "He can't wait either".

[axl]

Nice to see people discovering Duke 3D ! I look foward to read your impressions on the next 3 episodes.

[MrFlibble]

Arjak, on 24 August 2019 - 08:15 AM, said:

I was now experimenting with everything I could think of, even knocking all the balls on the pool table in Red Light District into the holes, just to see if something would happen.

Haha, I remember doing that too!

[Radar]

I share a similar story to the OP, except with the other build games. For some reason I could always play Duke as a kid, but SW and Blood were way too hard for me. Mind you, I played these games originally on DOS and non-WASD controls because I didn't know better. 2 years ago I decided I would grab SW Redux and complete the whole game no matter what. I did the same with Blood last year. They are definitely all great games, but Duke is still king.

[Arjak]

Sledgehammer, on 24 August 2019 - 11:07 PM, said:

You forgot to write a hint to this pic. Something like "See this fucker? His name is Sentry Drone and you'll never forget him for the rest of your life, especially the sound he makes".

Though under this context I'd say "He can't wait either".

Oh no, I've heard about these mofos...seen 'em in Youtube videos. I forgot that they were coming up. This is gonna be painful...

[PokeThePower]

Arjak, on 24 August 2019 - 08:15 AM, said:

I can't wait to play Lunar Apocalypse. I'll definitely have to let you guys know how that goes. Until then, peace!

Please do!

Zaxx, on 24 August 2019 - 10:05 PM, said:

Their preferred fuel is subtle gases given off by wooden shipping crates or that concentrate near ceilings.

Radar, on 25 August 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

...grab SW Redux...

Spoiler

[Sledgehammer]

Arjak, on 25 August 2019 - 09:27 AM, said:

Oh no, I've heard about these mofos...seen 'em in Youtube videos. I forgot that they were coming up. This is gonna be painful...

They're very easy to dodge, don't even have to spend bullets or rockets on them. Though dealing with them in large groups can be challenging a bit.

[ck3D]

Great to hear about your experience and how you're enjoying your (re-)discovery of the game. Witnessing newcomers to Duke 3D in 2019 is amazing. Have fun with the rest of the game (you'll find that every episode looks, feels and plays different), it's good practice prior to entering a world of thousands of quality user maps.

[MusicallyInspired]

Drones aren't that bad. When I was a kid I just accepted everything about the entire game and went through it. It was only when I went online that I discovered everyone hated them. They were a nuisance but they didn't ruin the game for me.

Lunar Apocalypse is pretty dreary looking though. But it also has some of the best music in the whole game too.

[Never Forgotten]

I never knew people have a problem with Lunar Apocalypse. It's honestly my favorite episode. Lunar Apocalypse has some great level design, plus it introduces the Enforcer, and the Overlord is a highly underrated boss.

[ck3D]

My understanding is that Lunar Apocalypse has some of the most intricate maps (as in, actual blueprints) in the game, and the alien cosmetics and oppressive ambiance only makes it even more intimidating. E1 and E3 feel like quick, family-friendlier suburban strolls in comparison (or maybe it's because they are so great I've played them so much, I take them for granted). When you think about it, Lunar Apocalypse is pretty much the eerie atmosphere of the end of Abyss carried over to an entire episode of levels coincidentally introducing bigger scale layouts, and less familiar or humanly relatable environment design. Makes it feel like one big stand-alone adventure of its own that maybe appeals to the most hardcore fans and gamers better.

Personally I always appreciated it, but was never hardcore enough for it (in all honesty). Always played E1 and E3 a lot more, with E4 tying with E2 in terms of fun factor (despite the difference in level design).

[t800]

axl, on 24 August 2019 - 11:33 PM, said:

Nice to see people discovering Duke 3D ! I look foward to read your impressions on the next 3 episodes.

And what about 5th one?

[Ninety-Six]

ck3D, on 26 August 2019 - 11:56 AM, said:

When you think about it, Lunar Apocalypse is pretty much the eerie atmosphere of the end of Abyss carried over to an entire episode of levels coincidentally introducing bigger scale layouts, and less familiar or humanly relatable environment design.

This here is why I love Lunar A. so much. It has a very crushing atmosphere that I enjoy. One particular moment that always stood out to me happened when I first returned to this game after having lost the original disk (and re-ordering it from 3DR directly after some 5 years or so).

I'll put it in spoilers for the sake of OP in case he'd like the chance to experience this for himself:

Spoiler

It was Dark Side, near the end. You all know what I'm talking about: the big moon crater with the drone swarm.

After killing them all and the few other aliens nearby, I slowed down to take a breather. And there, in the silence of my victory, with Plasma quietly diddling away in the background, something changed. I looked up at the Earth, and it just kind of dawned on me that, now that I was outside, there was literally nothing left alive inside the moonbase anymore. Everyone else was either killed by the aliens or by me. Now it was just empty. And soon enough I'd be the only one left on the moon.

Admittedly it's an odd experience to have in Duke Nukem of all games, but that's kinda what makes Lunar Apocalypse special. The episode shows that, if you peel back the one-liners and references, there's still an invasion going on. There are still stakes. With as joyless and dark the episode is, it's a warning that the same would befall Earth if you fail.

Again, a bit more than you should expect from a Duke game. But the original 3 episodes were already decidedly less reference-y in comparison to later games or even episode 4. They wanted to build recognizable areas like apartments and restaurants and such. And while Lunar A. lacks those things, it still has areas that make sense (particularly on the moonbase). I feel like it's not far-fetched that with the immersion they were going for, they tried a different form of immersion within Lunar A via atmosphere.



I could also be wrong. Nevertheless, that moment firmly cemented Lunar Apocalypse as my favorite episode in the game. (It helps that almost every song is a home run for me, too).

It also highlighted for me what Duke 3D was really about, and what a monumental landmark it was with its psuedo-realism. It gave me a deeper appreciation for this game that I already loved.

[t800]

Arjak, on 25 August 2019 - 09:27 AM, said:

Oh no, I've heard about these mofos...seen 'em in Youtube videos. I forgot that they were coming up. This is gonna be painful...

Just dont forget - doors are your friends.

[NNC]

I'm surprised how often I see E1 and E3 in the same sentence as episodes with light-hearted, fast-paced, realistic city strolls.

In my opinion E1 and E2 are much closer to each other, than any of them to E3. Sure, Hollywood Holocaust and Red Light District are iconic city levels, but even these two have a more oppressing atmosphere, a sense of dark threat is going on, and more importantly, they look vastly different to the city maps of E3 (with the exception of LA Rumble and Freeway, but even those feel more iight-hearted and less progress based than Holly and Red). They are different for the better btw.

The rest of E1 is basically what you can expect from E2 except on Earth and not in space. Dreary (I saying this as something positive), menacing, demanding, dark, long hallways, large scale, no urban atmosphere at all. Death Row is clearly the level that separated the real Dukers from casuals. Many people stopped caring there, because Death Row was a relatively hard map with lots of dark ambience and places where you can be lost. Toxic Dump and The Abyss absolutely followed suit, there were some really frustrating (but also satisfying) moments in them back in those days. Episode 2 is more of the same, except it's a bit less adventurous in the first half of the episode and less consistent in quality.

After all, most E1 and E2 are built by Allen Blum. Sure, The Abyss is by Levelord, but it's his most atypical map ever, and honestly, it's more closer to Allen's style than anything else in the game (same goes for the scrapped Sewer map). If you want to see what kind of cities you can expect in E3 i nterms of quality compared to E1 cities, just compare Incubator, Spin Cycle and Lunatic Fringe (the last two are secret levels) to maps like Fusion Station, Lunar Reactor or Dark Side in E2. Warp Factor is a bit of a wild card here, but we shouldn't forget the level's layout was made by Blum (it's very similar to Dark Side's layout) and only the rest (texturing, the over the top enemy placement) was by Levelord, who got the official credits for the entire thing.

IMHO E2 is a mixed bag, because it dragged a tad bit too long and as said above, the quality varies. It should have been a 5+1 map episode, just like E1. I would say Spaceport, Warp Factor (with some modifications/less drones), Lunar Reactor, Dark Side, Fusion Station as secret, Occuppied Territory as boss would have worked quite well, at least IMHO.

E3 has never been my cup of tea. I'm still a bit surprised by how many say it's their favourite episode. IMHO most levels look unfinished, nerfed (like reportedly Rabid Transit) or just rushed to be SP compatible from former multiplayer maps (ie. Fahrenheit, Movie Set). My biggest problem with the episode that it lacks two things: 1) True sense of place, 2) Epic single player moments. LA Rumble is amazing though.

[MusicallyInspired]

It probably has something to do with the colour palette. Lunar Apocalypse is very grayscale for the most part. And when it's not it's all that drab yellowish green. I've often thought what a new palette with more vibrant colours would look like in classic/8-bit.

[Sledgehammer]

MusicallyInspired, on 25 August 2019 - 07:03 PM, said:

Drones aren't that bad. When I was a kid I just accepted everything about the entire game and went through it.

Same thing here. In fact, I learned pretty fast how to deal with them using environment which is why I didn't think of them as the most terrible enemies. Though I remember being annoyed when they were dodging rockets. My most hated enemy were mini battlelords, mainly for their bugged sprite on PS1 version.

Never Forgotten, on 25 August 2019 - 08:06 PM, said:

I never knew people have a problem with Lunar Apocalypse. It's honestly my favorite episode. Lunar Apocalypse has some great level design, plus it introduces the Enforcer, and the Overlord is a highly underrated boss.

Being a big fan of space movies, with Alien movies being one of the most favorite of mine, it was and honestly still is my favorite episode. Soundtrack was another strong point of the episode, especially on PC, Plasma is a masterpiece.

[axl]

The Watchtower, on 27 August 2019 - 05:58 AM, said:

E3 has never been my cup of tea. I'm still a bit surprised by how many say it's their favourite episode. IMHO most levels look unfinished, nerfed (like reportedly Rabid Transit) or just rushed to be SP compatible from former multiplayer maps (ie. Fahrenheit, Movie Set). My biggest problem with the episode that it lacks two things: 1) True sense of place, 2) Epic single player moments. LA Rumble is amazing though.

E3 used to be my favorite episode when I was young. I was also surprised to see Civie11 calling it his favorite episode of Duke3D. I do still think it's a great episode, but some maps lack a bit of polish. Raw Meat, Bank Roll, Flood Zone, LA Rumble, Hotel Hell and Freeway are awesome. Then again Fahrenheit, Movie Set and Rabid Transit feel a bit rushed...

[NNC]

axl, on 27 August 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:

E3 used to be my favorite episode when I was young. I was also surprised to see Civie11 calling it his favorite episode of Duke3D. I do still think it's a great episode, but some maps lack a bit of polish. Raw Meat, Bank Roll, Flood Zone, LA Rumble, Hotel Hell and Freeway are awesome. Then again Fahrenheit, Movie Set and Rabid Transit feel a bit rushed...

AFAIK TerminX said that Raw Meat, Movie Set, Tier Drops and Fahrenheit were all just multiplayer levels later adjusted to single player. It can be seen on their overall design (or the lack of it). Raw Meat works better than the other three, because it had a good flow, smart enemy placement, and the karaoke bar looked good and satisfying overall. TerminX also said that Bank Roll, Flood Zone, LA Rumble, Rabid Transit and Hotel Hell were massively nerfed during development to match the framerates of old computers. Flood Zone and LA Rumble still ended up being great levels (the former is a cool, and technically advanced concept level, the latter has the true scale and atmosphere of a futuristic city, and another level with legendary enemy placement). Once said, Rabid Transit originally was a much better level, and I wish we somehow have the chance to see it in the future. The train cars however aged very poorly. Not sure what to think of Bank Roll and Hotel Hell... I liked them as a kid, but I can't unsee their design flaws now. I think they also looked much better originally. Some rooms in HH look absolutely hideous, while Bank Roll is way too short.

However my biggest gripe with the episode is its lack of single player campaign feel. I missed the epic moments. I missed the feel of progression. I think the buildup in the first 4 levels in the city is pretty solid. But I think Duke should have been flying away further with that helicopter. The entire progression was stalled in Movie Set. By that time the whole episode felt like a collection of maps, not an adventure. E2 also suffers from this in some parts, but levels like Spaceport, Fusion Station, Occupied Territory, Lunar Reactor and Dark Side still felt like missions with goals. E4 is very inconsistent since many of the maps were just recycled scrap from the game development, but levels like It's Impossible, Duke Burger, Critical Mass and Derelict clearly felt like missions.

[axl]

The Watchtower, on 27 August 2019 - 10:51 PM, said:

AFAIK TerminX said that Raw Meat, Movie Set, Tier Drops and Fahrenheit were all just multiplayer levels later adjusted to single player. It can be seen on their overall design (or the lack of it).

Interesting ! That explains the teleporter rooms in Raw Meat.

It would have been awesome if Blum and The Levelord had updated their maps for the 20th anniversary edition of Duke.

[Kerr Avon]

t800, this is off-topic, but please excuse that. Your sig mentions a fixed version of SWP, does that mean it fixes the save-game bug?

[t800]

Kerr Avon, on 28 August 2019 - 06:38 AM, said:

t800, this is off-topic, but please excuse that. Your sig mentions a fixed version of SWP, does that mean it fixes the save-game bug?

I sent you PM to not derail thread.

[pacman]

Duke 3D was much more immersive than Doom and even Quake.

[Radar]

axl, on 27 August 2019 - 11:42 PM, said:

Interesting ! That explains the teleporter rooms in Raw Meat.

It would have been awesome if Blum and The Levelord had updated their maps for the 20th anniversary edition of Duke.

Those teleporter rooms would have been added anyway for multiplayer support. If anything, those rooms are evidence that E3L1 was not a dukematch map. They were added for better connectivity.