[Phredreeke]

I wasn't planning to buy the game, but I definitively won't now (shoving cringy political statements in your game is one thing, copystriking a guy for pointing it out something entirely different)

[Zaxx]

What? You make an outrage video called "The WOKEST Game Ending of All Time! Mortal Kombat 11" and the publisher gets pissed at you because of that? Who would've thought? The sad part is that he doesn't even seem to understand that you can't really deal with this stuff like if you were just another commenter on Reddit because your shitty videos with the false conclusions can affect a small minority of people in their opinions. It's so fucking tasteless, man, making your living from doing these "X company did something LIBERAL! Hate now" type of videos.

Fuck that guy, he's worse than the tabloids of old.

Edit: For some actual context: the story of MK11 is the same old stupid B movie plot as it always was, it's about some guardian of time wanting to restart history and of course that problem is solved by beating her to pieces. She is the final boss on the arcade ladder so most of the character endings are based around the winning character getting "time powers" and changing the world to his / her liking. So based on that I should be outraged because a black guy would erase slavery? Really? Why is that so out there, it's kind of an obvious thing to think up in a "what would you do if you could..." scenario.

But nope, there was a referential joke where they said woke, gotta hate them. Stop listening to some random guy with a beard, please, even if he's tapping into your hate reflexes because really, that's just some random guy with a beard and you take his words as fact because he's on Youtube.

[Phredreeke]

Publishers copystriking YouTube channels is bad, regardless if it's TheQuartering, Jim Sterling, Pewdiepie or anyone else. Or do you think Digital Homicide did nothing wrong?

[Forge]

making videos pointing out that video game developers and publishers cater to the left-leaning metascore crowd is no worse than video game publishers and developers catering their game's socio-politcto undertones to increase metascores,

[Danukem]

Would it be better to have 2 different threads on this game, one that talks about politics and one about the gameplay? I wouldn't say that the politics surrounding the game are off the topic of the game, but it's clear from previous posts that some fans of the game feel that the thread is being hijacked.

Upper Echelong Gamers recently posted a take on this issue sans the game footage (to avoid the publisher abusing copyright to get the video taken down).

[Forge]

meh.
the developers do it to themselves by pushing articles and videos of how progressive they are. That kind of self-righteous arrogance is alluring to the detractors.

The game has name-brand recognition, probably plays well for its genre, and is going to make millions of dollars.

[Sledgehammer]

Forge, on 22 April 2019 - 01:12 PM, said:

probably plays well for its genre

So far it didn't happen yet and I doubt it will be any different for MK11. The only thing which kept NRS games relevant were WB money. I bet the game will be dominated by that furry black player like every NRS game.

Trooper Dan, on 22 April 2019 - 12:36 PM, said:

some fans of the game feel that the thread is being hijacked.

I had an idea to make fighting game thread but I figured people don't play fighting games on duke4. But then again, MK isn't exactly liked as a fighting game, not in fighting game communities at least.

[Forge]

Sledgehammer, on 22 April 2019 - 01:38 PM, said:

So far it didn't happen yet and I doubt it will be any different for MK11.

I only meant for the physics, and reaction time between the button push and the on-screen character.

I don't play fighting games often enough to get into the nuances that make one game superior to another.

[Futuretime23]

Sledgehammer, on 22 April 2019 - 01:38 PM, said:

So far it didn't happen yet and I doubt it will be any different for MK11. The only thing which kept NRS games relevant were WB money. I bet the game will be dominated by that furry black player like every NRS game.


I had an idea to make fighting game thread but I figured people don't play fighting games on duke4. But then again, MK isn't exactly liked as a fighting game, not in fighting game communities at least.

Kinda false. there's definitely FGC people that aren't NRS folks that do like MK games, but admitedly it always tends to be MK1, MK2, UMK3/MKT (n64 version in particular) and MK9, even if the games are seen as kinda broken (lol). X got shat on a lot due to issues I described earlier, no one really cares about MK4, and the 3D era as a whole is disliked even from a casual point of view due to what many deem as clunky gameplay that was trying to ape off Tekken to an extent. Sure, there's 3d era defenders but in general the entire era is seen as the worst or at least most divisive part of MK history (not counting Mythologies, Special Forces or Advance obv. I'm talking the main series installments)

Also, MK9 wasn't dominated by Sonicfox and that game was (from a competitive pov) the most successful one out of all them. Shame it didn't get supported officially for longer, as MK9 is amazing.

[Sledgehammer]

Forge, on 22 April 2019 - 01:58 PM, said:

I don't play fighting games often enough to get into the nuances that make one game superior to another.

What makes a fighting games good is balance (you could figure that since again NRS games are dominated just by one guy) and good competent mechanic which means that to be good at the game you need skill (NRS games have too much of the stupid shit and it's not just lack of auto-block).

Futuretime23, on 22 April 2019 - 02:07 PM, said:

Kinda false. there's definitely FGC people that aren't NRS folks that do like MK games, but admitedly it always tends to be MK1, MK2, UMK3/MKT (n64 version in particular) and MK9, even if the games are seen as kinda broken (lol). X got shat on a lot due to issues I described earlier, no one really cares about MK4, and the 3D era as a whole is disliked even from a casual point of view due to what many deem as clunky gameplay that was trying to ape off Tekken to an extent. Sure, there's 3d era defenders but in general the entire era is seen as the worst or at least most divisive part of MK history (not counting Mythologies, Special Forces or Advance obv. I'm talking the main series installments)

Also, MK9 wasn't dominated by Sonicfox and that game was (from a competitive pov) the most successful one out of all them. Shame it didn't get supported officially for longer, as MK9 is amazing.

Kinda, yes. However so far the closest to traditional fighting games from the West were KI and Skullgirls (which was heavily inspired by Marvel and a bit by Guilty Gear). MK2 in opinion is the best MK game which is closer to traditional fighting games though, although it's also unbalanced. I think some fans tried to make arcade hack to make both MK2 and UMK3 balanced. MK9 was there but lacked balance too. This is the entire reason what killed the game as a competitive fighter, by the way. Kabal was the most OP character.

Anyway I maybe will go too far, but ironically NRS could outperform at least Street Fighter which was fucked up by Capcom themselves. Instead they're trying to copy this pile of trash which is SFV, they should have tried to copy something like KOF or GG which is of course complex as fuck, but still, why the fuck not? The answer of course is that making fighting games is very difficult because the more complex mechanics you have the harder it is to balance your game. MK9 was excusable since it was their first attempt at making somehow competitive fighting game but they decided to fuck up and do MKX. I don't think MK11 will be any different, they even trying to take some questionable Injustice 2 things and that was a crappy game too which died faster than MKX.

Still, does anyone play fighting games outside of casual ones like MK? Maybe it's worth making FGC related thread if there are some people who play those games. Esports doesn't matter, not a fan of esports myself and consider it cancerous for many reasons.

[Futuretime23]

Sledgehammer, on 22 April 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

What makes a fighting games good is balance (you could figure that since again NRS games are dominated just by one guy) and good competent mechanic which means that to be good at the game you need skill (NRS games have too much of the stupid shit and it's not just lack of auto-block).


Kinda, yes. However so far the closest to traditional fighting games from the West were KI and Skullgirls (which was heavily inspired by Marvel and a bit by Guilty Gear). MK2 in opinion is the best MK game which is closer to traditional fighting games though, although it's also unbalanced. I think some fans tried to make arcade hack to make both MK2 and UMK3 balanced. MK9 was there but lacked balance too. This is the entire reason what killed the game as a competitive fighter, by the way. Kabal was the most OP character.

Anyway I maybe will go too far, but ironically NRS could outperform at least Street Fighter which was fucked up by Capcom themselves. Instead they're trying to copy this pile of trash which is SFV, they should have tried to copy something like KOF or GG which is of course complex as fuck, but still, why the fuck not? The answer of course is that making fighting games is very difficult because the more complex mechanics you have the harder it is to balance your game. MK9 was excusable since it was their first attempt at making somehow competitive fighting game but they decided to fuck up and do MKX. I don't think MK11 will be any different, they even trying to take some questionable Injustice 2 things and that was a crappy game too which died faster than MKX.

Still, does anyone play fighting games outside of casual ones like MK? Maybe it's worth making FGC related thread if there are some people who play those games. Esports doesn't matter, not a fan of esports myself and consider it cancerous for many reasons.

Might interest you to know that MK9 also got a balance mod, MK9 TE. But anyways, I'm hoping MK11 is the proper sequel to MK9 I always wanted, at least gameplay wise.

Changing topic from gameplay a bit, there IS one thing I'm not really looking forward to and that's the story mode. I like spoiling myself and have spoiled myself the general gist of what goes in story mode (relax, I will not spoil anything in this thread guys) and suffice to say...goddamn it looks like it's gonna be hot trash.

[Forge]

Sledgehammer, on 22 April 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

MK2 in opinion is the best MK game which is closer to traditional fighting games though, although it's also unbalanced. I think some fans tried to make arcade hack to make both MK2 and UMK3 balanced. MK9 was there but lacked balance too. This is the entire reason what killed the game as a competitive fighter, by the way. Kabal was the most OP character.

MK2 is my favorite fighting game (not saying much, since I don't own it or play very many fighting games).
Never played MK3, but it looked pretty similar to MK2
MK4 looked incredibly stupid, so I stopped paying attention to the franchise.

[Sledgehammer]

Futuretime23, on 22 April 2019 - 02:41 PM, said:

Might interest you to know that MK9 also got a balance mod, MK9 TE.

Interesting, didn't know about that, do people play it online too? SFIV had good gameplay mod too which turned the game into enjoyable.

Futuretime23, on 22 April 2019 - 02:41 PM, said:

I will not spoil anything in this thread

Can't spoil what is already spoiled.

Forge, on 22 April 2019 - 02:46 PM, said:

MK2 is my favorite fighting game (not saying much, since I don't own it or play very many fighting games).
Never played MK3, but it looked pretty similar to MK2

MK2 by many is considered the best MK game of all time, I guess this is why NRS made MK9 closer to it. Anyway, MK3 big problem are preset combos which require memorization instead of skill. It was kind of bullshit in MK9 too, though chaining those combos arguably requires some skill.

[Futuretime23]

Sledgehammer, on 22 April 2019 - 02:46 PM, said:

Interesting, didn't know about that, do people play it online too? SFIV had good gameplay mod too which turned the game into enjoyable.


Can't spoil what is already spoiled.


MK2 by many is considered the best MK game of all time, I guess this is why NRS made MK9 closer to it. Anyway, MK3 big problem are preset combos which require memorization instead of skill. It was kind of bullshit in MK9 too, though chaining those combos arguably requires some skill.

MK9 online isn't GGPO, so naturally unless you are close to your opponent, it's not gonna work well so as a result it has limited the potential crowd of players. The recommendation I see people make is to have fast internet and use Parsec instead of the game's netcode. I've seen at least one online regular MK9 tourney be done that way in lieu of the game's actual netcode.

As a sidenote, what's the mod you are talking about for SF4?

[Sledgehammer]

Futuretime23, on 22 April 2019 - 03:17 PM, said:

MK9 online isn't GGPO

I know. I mean do people play the mod online too?

Futuretime23, on 22 April 2019 - 03:17 PM, said:

what's the mod you are talking about for SF4?

USF4 Remix: http://www.sf4remix.com

The video is old, but you'll get the general idea.

[xMobilemux]

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse:

[Futuretime23]

Sledgehammer, on 22 April 2019 - 03:40 PM, said:

I know. I mean do people play the mod online too?


USF4 Remix: http://www.sf4remix.com

The video is old, but you'll get the general idea.

Ohhh this mod. I wanted to give it a shot 3 years ago but couldn't get my friend to play with me since he had gotten tired of USF4 lol.

As for playing the mod online, yes there are people who play online with the mod but that's what I was trying to get at with the limited audience issue. MK9 online not being good does cut down a lot on how many people are playing. If a GGPO mod were to happen with MK9, I'd bet you'd see a lot more people playing not just TE online, but also regular 9 online.


Anyways, moving back to MK11, today there was a Kombat Kast where they announced they were "fixing" the Krypt grinding issue. For those who don't know, take a look at this thread to get a detailed explanation of the issue: https://www.testyour...e-coming.69102/

[Sledgehammer]

Yeah, I know it's a shame that MK9 has no GGPO. Though I've played worse, GGXXAC+R has really shitty netcode, maybe I was lucky but I had better experience with MK9 (lol). Anyway, I highly recommend you to play Guilty Gear Xrd in case you have interest in fighting games. UNIEST would be my second recommendation and they even going to put it on American EVO which was a big surprise for me. Xrd has more offline content though and for online it's better to get Revelator 2 package. Both games are complex but are very great games (Xrd became much easier compared to AC+R though). Perhaps I really should make fighting games thread.

xMobilemux, on 22 April 2019 - 05:17 PM, said:

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse:

NRS writers went full retard. What's funny is that you'd expect to hear patriotic words from Kotal. Also those exposed boobs, can't unsee it now.

[Zaxx]

Phredreeke, on 22 April 2019 - 11:47 AM, said:

Publishers copystriking YouTube channels is bad, regardless if it's TheQuartering, Jim Sterling, Pewdiepie or anyone else. Or do you think Digital Homicide did nothing wrong?

It's a lot more complex than "copystriking Youtube channels is bad", you really have to look at why both parties are doing what they are doing. In the case of DH Jim Sterling put out actual critical content that tore a new asshole on The Slaughtering Grounds, that's absolutely a type of content that should be protected. This Jeremy guy does this on the other hand, just look at the list of his videos:
https://www.youtube....zuSi1Nag/videos
It's pretty clear that nuanced criticism or in-depth discussion is not the point, this guy just wants to make money by creating and exploiting topics that attract people who like to rage on the internet about pointless things. I think that if you're a publisher it's absolutely understandable that you don't want your social channels be full of idiots who tell you how much of an SJW you are because that's not relevant feedback on how your product is being received. You know, most of these guys don't even care about the game, they won't buy it, they just read or saw something on the internet, got outraged by it and now that's the thing you'll hear about for a week instead of the relevant stuff that should be talked about, mainly actual customer feedback. A copyright strike can be used to tone this shit down a bit and sure, that's not why it exists but that's the only way to make a video go away at least for a while and chances are that WB doesn't care about the dude's feelings since he never actually took the time to present a measured argument, companies like WB can only be the enemy to guys like this.

And when it comes to me well, I'm a lot more interested in balance, the Krypt grind and the state of microtransactions when it comes to critical content aimed at MK11 instead of another pointless "xy game is SJW, hate baaaaahh" shit. WB is a terrible fucking publisher when it comes to monetization so as an MK fan and a potential customer that's what I'm worried about, I don't care if Shao Kahn wants to make Outworld great again since the writing in MK was never exactly excellent and I don't care about the orange guy anyway.

[Danukem]

Zaxx, on 23 April 2019 - 12:21 AM, said:

It's a lot more complex than "copystriking Youtube channels is bad", you really have to look at why both parties are doing what they are doing. In the case of DH Jim Sterling put out actual critical content that tore a new asshole on The Slaughtering Grounds, that's absolutely a type of content that should be protected. This Jeremy guy does this on the other hand, just look at the list of his videos:
https://www.youtube....zuSi1Nag/videos
It's pretty clear that nuanced criticism or in-depth discussion is not the point, this guy just wants to make money by creating and exploiting topics that attract people who like to rage on the internet about pointless things.

Jeremy is not an angel and he does get carried away sometimes, but I have watched enough of his videos to know that he does his research and argues in good faith. He does pursue some topics more than is warranted, but that's his right. He has a passion for the topics he discusses, it's not just about getting clicks (although like any YouTuber he tries to grow his audience).

You seem to be arguing that copystriking was bad when used against Jim Sterling but OK when used against Jeremy because in your opinion Jeremy has bad motives and argues badly. That's false (in my opinion), but even if it were true your argument would still be fallacious. It's obvious that your judgment on this is being colored by the fact that you disagree with him and dislike his politics.

So far you haven't even bothered trying to engage in the actual debate, which is about a statement made by the developer regarding female costume design and what motivated the new approach. It's almost like you realize that the developer's statement is difficult to defend, so you have taken the easier route of dismissing the YouTuber for other topics he covered, rather than addressing the issue under discussion. EDIT: I'm striking that part out to acknowledge that it's combative. Also, it implies that I want to participate in further debate, which isn't actually true. I said what I had to say earlier. In the end the market will decide. I'm out. Peace.

[Zaxx]

Trooper Dan, on 23 April 2019 - 01:02 AM, said:

You seem to be arguing that copystriking was bad when used against Jim Sterling but OK when used against Jeremy because in your opinion Jeremy has bad motives and argues badly.

Yes, basically that's my point but I'm not jumping to conclusions based on looking at his thumbnails and whatnot. I started to watch his channel a lot when the whole "you guys don't have phones?" stuff blew up with Activision-Blizzard and I followed him for a while but after some time it became pretty obvious to me that he gets carried away a lot. You know, you can make a video about how "woke" MK is for people who are interested in that stuff but at least wait for the game to be released and play it before you make that argument because that's how you research that shit.

And now that I think of it it's absolutely possible that WB messed with him simply because he posted content that got leaked before the game was actually out.

[Mark]

Rumor has it that MK12 will feature a guy wearing a "Make America Great Again" hat versus a liberal activist in sandals.

[Phredreeke]

It's usually not for the criticised party to pick and choose what is or is not genuine criticism.

I also think it's a stretch to call it a leak, given that the source was a retailer selling the game ahead of its official release, not an inside source or a writer breaking a review embargo.

[Zaxx]

Phredreeke, on 23 April 2019 - 04:44 AM, said:

It's usually not for the criticised party to pick and choose what is or is not genuine criticism.

I also think it's a stretch to call it a leak, given that the source was a retailer selling the game ahead of its official release, not an inside source or a writer breaking a review embargo.

What you're describing is the definition of a leak so I don't know what your argument is.

Anyway I watched Maximilian Dood's stream and they fucked up the Krypt, the towers are shit and the microtransactions are unbelievably predatory so I cancelled my pre-order. I hope they fix it because I'd love to buy the game but I just can't support this shit.

[MusicallyInspired]

Anyone should have every right to make videos with whatever form of criticism they want. Copyright striking it is bad form and just makes things worse in the long run.

[Tea Monster]

Zaxx, on 23 April 2019 - 12:21 AM, said:

It's a lot more complex than "copystriking Youtube channels is bad",

No it isn't. You can't say, "I shot 20 people, they were all bad people, so I shouldn't go to jail".

Law doesn't work like that.

Justice doesn't work like that.

[Sledgehammer]

Mark, on 23 April 2019 - 04:28 AM, said:

Rumor has it that MK12 will feature a guy wearing a "Make America Great Again" hat versus a liberal activist in sandals.

Not that it would be surprising, like always incompetent suits or even leftists love to put outdated memes in their "work".


It's only getting worse when they put memes under wrong context which is cringe and makes the writing absolutely terrible. That said, they didn't make MAGA jokes in Injustice 2 when it was more relevant, right?

Zaxx, on 23 April 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

I hope they fix it because I'd love to buy the game but I just can't support this shit.

From what I've seen they don't need your or anyone else's money because they have sponsors what is much more valuable to WB. I wouldn't be surprised if forced microtransactions are needed to maximize profit from "whales" anyway. They even made sure for people not being able to cheat by making this game always online.

[Zaxx]

Tea Monster, on 23 April 2019 - 06:49 AM, said:

No it isn't. You can't say, "I shot 20 people, they were all bad people, so I shouldn't go to jail".

Law doesn't work like that.

Justice doesn't work like that.

Yet you shot 20 bad people instead of 20 good ones, that ought to make some kind of difference in the world even if you rot in jail.

[Forge]

[Zaxx]

I think I'll just reinstall Killer Instinct instead of buying MK11.