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Apex Legends

User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 468

#1

As a surprise to no one, this game is terrible. Why do people always play the games with design that is determined to tone down the skill-based aspect of shooters as much as it can?
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User is offline   HulkNukem 

  • 890

#2

What? This game is great and feels good.
Really good traversal, super fast combat, and generally very stable, something you can't say for something like PUBG.

In fact I don't know how you are saying it isn't skill-based when it fully favors twitch aim.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 468

#3

Sure, it favors aiming but still: most of the time the guy with the better armor and the better weapons will win.

Super fast combat? Well, after something like Quake I just want to fall asleep and not necessarily because the game is slow (compared to other BR titles it's really not) but simply because well, there is not much going on, it's boring. This is a first person shooter where you're not shooting 90% of the time and even if you do combat is mostly decided by random factors (loot).

The aiming also feels floaty as hell, for some weapons ADS (you know, that thing you love) is necessary and really bullets just tend to not go where your crosshair is if you're not using ADS (and since ADS was designed for precise aiming with analog sticks why would I want to use ADS on a freakin' PC?). After 5 hours of playtime I ran back to play the only competent multiplayer shooter on the market right now (Quake Champions even with its bugs, man, it's amazing what modern technology is capable of: my shots go where my crosshair is, magic!).

Overall Apex is just overhyped shit for Fortnite people but with the added charm of it having game mechanics stolen from literally every FPS ever made. :D

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 16 February 2019 - 04:48 PM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 3,352

#4

I haven't played PUBG because it costs money I don't have. Fortnite is third person and has building mechanics so screw that. Apex is first person and looks like something I'd actually play. I might give it a go one of these days.

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 468

#5

Yeah, that was my thought process too (also it is my first BR game)... man, how wrong I was! :D
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User is offline   HulkNukem 

  • 890

#6

View PostZaxx, on 16 February 2019 - 04:45 PM, said:

Sure, it favors aiming but still: most of the time the guy with the better armor and the better weapons will win.


How is that any different than any competitive shooter ever made? The guy with the super shotgun or BFG in OG Doom is typically going to win. The guy with the railgun or rocket launcher in Quake is typically going to win. The guy with the higher tier weapons in Apex Legends is typically going to win.
That isn't to say there's no skill needed. A low tier looted player can still outskill a higher tier looted player. Every character has unique abilities but they also have the same speed and health which favors the player's own skill.

View PostZaxx, on 16 February 2019 - 04:45 PM, said:

Super fast combat? Well, after something like Quake I just want to fall asleep and not necessarily because the game is slow (compared to other BR titles it's really not) but simply because well, there is not much going on, it's boring. This is a first person shooter where you're not shooting 90% of the time and even if you do combat is mostly decided by random factors (loot).


Start landing in the hotter zones then and stop hiding :P
No you aren't going to be fighting others throughout your entire game, but that's part of the appeal. You have no idea when or if you are going to get into a fight. You could be looting minding your own business and one or more teams show up. You could go an entire game without even seeing other players until the very end.
Comparing it to Quake also seems misguided. They aren't the same type of multiplayer at all. If Quake Champions had a battle royale mode, I guarantee it'd have a similar pace. If this had a traditional TDM mode, it'd be like Quake.

View PostZaxx, on 16 February 2019 - 04:45 PM, said:

The aiming also feels floaty as hell, for some weapons ADS (you know, that thing you love) is necessary and really bullets just tend to not go where your crosshair is if you're not using ADS (and since ADS was designed for precise aiming with analog sticks why would I want to use ADS on a freakin' PC?). After 5 hours of playtime I ran back to play the only competent multiplayer shooter on the market right now (Quake Champions even with its bugs, man, it's amazing what modern technology is capable of: my shots go where my crosshair is, magic!).

Overall Apex is just overhyped shit for Fortnite people but with the added charm of it having game mechanics stolen from literally every FPS ever made. :D


Aiming feels great to me, so that might be your own opinion which is fne.
Also lol @ your final assessment. What fucking nonsense is that? You are championing so hard for Quake Champions yet that borrowed plenty of mechanics from other popular FPS games today. I honestly can't tell if your posts are satire or not.

About the only two negatives I can say about it is that you are required to be in a team of three (though I've heard they plan to do solos eventually) and that people are already waaaaaay too good at it.

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 16 February 2019 - 04:52 PM, said:

I haven't played PUBG because it costs money I don't have. Fortnite is third person and has building mechanics so screw that. Apex is first person and looks like something I'd actually play. I might give it a go one of these days.


Give it a shot. If I have time and you need someone to play with, I might be able to.

This post has been edited by HulkNukem: 16 February 2019 - 05:15 PM

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User is offline   TerminX 

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  #7

I've played Apex a couple of times and didn't think it was too bad, though I barely got any kills. It'll work as a distraction when Rainbow Six: Siege pisses me off too much. :)

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 468

#8

View PostHulkNukem, on 16 February 2019 - 05:09 PM, said:

How is that any different than any competitive shooter ever made? The guy with the super shotgun or BFG in OG Doom is typically going to win. The guy with the railgun or rocket launcher in Quake is typically going to win. The guy with the higher tier weapons in Apex Legends is typically going to win.
That isn't to say there's no skill needed. A low tier looted player can still outskill a higher tier looted player.

Sure, it is doable in Apex but in Quake even a very slight difference in skill between two players will be visible while in Apex the difference in skill needs to be very large because the difference in gear has a much bigger impact. The dynamics of the two games are also very different because in Quake every player gets better HP or armor from the same source (the mega health pickup and the heavy armor pickup) so if you get outstacked in a match it's your fault: you should have been the one to pick up those items, not the opponent. The same goes for the weapons: since they all come from the same source if the other player has better weapons than you then your pickup routes and map controlneeds a bit of work.

Quote

Also lol @ your final assessment. What fucking nonsense is that? You are championing so hard for Quake Champions yet that borrowed plenty of mechanics from other popular FPS games today. I honestly can't tell if your posts are satire or not.

Apex is more of a mishmash of everything though: there is a sense of CoD, Titanfall, Overwatch, PUBG and even Quake in there. When it comes to QC the only thing it's kind of borrowing is the hero / class mechanic but even that's done very differently than what you see in OW or TF2. The main reason for that is that really, QC only steals the aesthetics / UI design of Overwatch's heroes, the ability mechanics themselves come from a prototype id Sotfware made for Quake Live way before Overwatch came out. QC's abilities are not "ultimates", they are just utility-based special abilities that give you something extra (and in this sense Apex is doing this in a similar way, that's something I like about it) and most of them are actually "stolen" from previous Quake games (QWorld style bunny hopping, Quake 4's crouch sliding, Quake 2's grapple etc.).

So basically QC wants to capitalize on one trend (hero shooters) while Apex wants to use all the trends. :D
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 468

#9

View PostTerminX, on 16 February 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:

I've played Apex a couple of times and didn't think it was too bad, though I barely got any kills.

It's hard to start out in these games because half the weapons are filler / stuff that's only viable right after the drop but once you figure that stuff out it's easier to get kills. Just keep in mind that half the gameplay is a slot machine basically but it's interesting how most people don't think of it that way. For example when you get announced as a champion at the start of a match usually your teammates are like "okay, we'll follow you to the last man!" while all you did was win the lottery in your last match really so most likely you'll just lead the new guys to their deaths. :D I also love when you get "championed" because your team managed to drop right where another team dropped to too but you managed to quickly find a shotgun and put the other team away. Yay, I massacred them with a shotgun while all they had was their fists or peashooters, I'm good now! :D

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 16 February 2019 - 08:47 PM

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User is online   Jblade 

  • 1,803

#10

playing it a bunch, won quite a lot of games - it's a lot of fun (some character ults are too situational though, so you only have a use for them like once every 10 games) I like that they took a look at all the annoying GUI bullshit of other BR games and thought 'how can we improve this'? If you don't like BRs than you won't like this, not really anything surprising there.
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User is offline   Lunick 

  • Snazzy Ex Tazzy
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#11

The ping system is amazing

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 468

#12

View PostLunick, on 16 February 2019 - 10:46 PM, said:

The ping system is amazing

So what? That saves it? Sure, it's a good system but on the other hand:

- The netcode is fucking garbage (it's basically one of the worst in the industry) and sometimes you can really feel it when fighting long range, something is just off:


- Apex is running on the Source engine, a modified version of it but a version even Respawn admits is too old at this point so performance is shaky at best.

- The character designs are terrible when it comes to their looks, these are the ugliest characters I have seen in a long while. But hey, at least it started the "American character design vs. Japanese character design" meme:
Posted Image

I know, this all doesn't matter because it's a BR game where the technical / artistic quality of PUBG always set the bar very, very low but I'd like to see a BR game that doesn't suck in the netcode department at least. This low tickrate bullshit has to end.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 17 February 2019 - 07:31 AM

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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • 722

#13

View PostZaxx, on 17 February 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:

- The character designs are terrible when it comes to their looks, these are the ugliest characters I have seen in a long while. But hey, at least it started the "American character design vs. Japanese character design" meme:
Posted Image

Spoiler


On another unrelated note, can anyone elaborate on Siege? This game is quite appealing to me, but aside from the problem getting it means supporting Ubishit I briefly read that they even censored the game so they could cater to chinks and that it has ton of micros which wouldn't be such a big deal if it wasn't for the fact that supposedly a whole package (Ultimate Edition, would appreciate to elaborate on how complete it is too) cost 7128 yen at the moment which is roughly 65 bucks and that's with 45% off discount on Steam.

This post has been edited by Sledgehammer: 17 February 2019 - 09:51 AM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 468

#14

Sledge, I think you have a problem with hating too many game companies. :D

Anyway the comparison image is a bad example really because A: that's not actually how Lifeline looks like, she's ugly as hell but that image is shopped and B: it focuses on "beauty" instead of the real problem which is that the character designs are just boring and uninspired. Bloodhound is the only legend that looks cool to me and that's very bad for a game where you're supposed to have people who identify with their favorite characters. It's like if the characters were bland in a Mortal Kombat game and even if I look at Overwatch or Quake Champions I see lots of designs that tell me "hey, I wanna play that character!"

For example I wanna play her, she looks awesome:

Like in QC there are two champs who look bland and shitty to me (Athena and Nyx), the rest of the roster I at least want to try. And well, MK and QC has that theme going for them that characters who are psychos fit the concept.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 17 February 2019 - 11:52 AM

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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • 722

#15

View PostZaxx, on 17 February 2019 - 11:45 AM, said:

that image is shopped

It isn't. The right pic in there however is modified:
Posted Image

What's funny is that some people in Japan were saying that this is just a face of a Westerner.

Anyway:

View PostZaxx, on 17 February 2019 - 11:45 AM, said:

the real problem which is that the character designs are just boring

Design with beauty aren't mutually exclusive. That said, there is nothing interesting about her design either. If anything, original had it better so they'd get more points for going with original instead. Though after looking at some DLC outfits which were inspired by old designs made by competent people for the original, Claire ugly face doesn't mix well with these. RE2 Remake maybe is praised but definitely not for design, not for those ugly faces for sure and actually while searching for one screenshot I found Kotaku article which noted this too which is very ironic. But oh well, what do you expect from incompetent cheap as fuck tumblr hipsters who work as designers as well, a good work?

Though I still give you that Ada is very lucky of all people to be good looking, of all characters not only she doesn't look like battered old drug addict or even a paki, she actually looks younger compared to sequels where is a fine looking milf. They really nailed her in my opinion. At least during gameplay you can avoid looking at ugly faces of protags, something positive about third person view. The remake for the second game was released at a wrong time, should have made it right after the first Remake or Zero and now I'm not sure that I want Dino Crisis to get the same treatment, would rather see a proper remaster. Still love this fucking game.

This post has been edited by Sledgehammer: 19 February 2019 - 05:58 AM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 468

#16

I really like REmake2's character designs, I think everyone was properly modernized but Claire got the short end of the stick, I give you that. Even her classic costume is weird, it's just not accurate to her original looks while Leon's 1998 skin is great.

And yeah, her facial animations have that uncanny valley effect and I think I know where they fucked that up. When designing the characters Capcom opted to scan real people's faces in which is good but after they done that they hired different actors to do the voices and the motion capture. Here's Claire's "face":
Posted Image
Everyone in the game resembles their face models very closely but Claire is just off: the girl they used is much skinnier than the model you see in the game so my guess is that she was a bit miscast and she did not fit well with the mocap they did with the voice actress. They altered her face and as a result she looks weird.
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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • 722

#17

This woman looks way better than the Claire she resembles though (still I think there are better potential models for her if you google Claire Redfield cosplay). As for Leon, it's normal in the West to make men look attractive and well designed too aka pleasing to watch, I bet Capcom made women (and faggots) very happy. Ironically the exact same shit happened with Andromeda. While a woman protag looks nothing like a person after which she was modeled (in a terrible way), they made a man model very accurate. What's more funny is that even Sherry, a child, looks like drag addict in the game. Why would you do that to children, even if they're virtual? Even Revelation 2 had it a bit better.

It's been proven many times that scanning real faces can be actually done right. In fact, Jill from the very first remake actually is well done (Capcom did use the tech plenty of times). She resembles her real life counterpart very well, so if your intention was to blame the tech I'd say it's not a problem. Speaking of which, I can't wait to see how they fuck up Jill in Remake for the third game even though there are a lot of good looking women who could work well for Jill. In Revelations she already was quite bad and they didn't use PhotoScan tech what resulted in her looking weird. A shame though that Capcom couldn't use that model anymore, but they surely don't regret it.

This post has been edited by Sledgehammer: 19 February 2019 - 08:47 AM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 468

#18

Quote

She resembles her real life counterpart very well, so if your intention was to blame the tech I'd say it's not a problem.

No, that was not my intention at all, what I'm saying is basically that they'd have gotten a better result if they simply used the same actors for the face, the voice acting and the mocap.

I think Jill looked really good in Revelations, sure, they stopped using her Remake face at that point but that was never an issue for me. I like my characters touched up here and there, that keeps them a bit more fresh. I'm sure she'll look different in the Nemesis remake but they are going for a different art style since RE7 so that's not bothering me.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 19 February 2019 - 09:19 AM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 3,352

#19

Alyx from HL2 didn't have the same voice actress as the face model. That worked pretty well. Also, the model for the GMan actually had more weight around the face than the in-game model did. His voice actor was different too (same as Barney). It can be done. It can also be done weakly.

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 468

#20

The facial animations of HL2 were not motion captured. The algorithm that adapted the lip syncing to the spoken language / sound is still impressive though.
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User is offline   ReaperAA 

  • 25

#21

View PostSledgehammer, on 19 February 2019 - 05:49 AM, said:

or even a paki.


Ahem. I found this slightly offensive. Just saying Posted Image
Spoiler

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User is offline   Forge 

  • 8,223

#22

View PostReaperAA, on 20 February 2019 - 02:48 AM, said:

Ahem. I found this slightly offensive. Just saying Posted Image
Spoiler


How much do Japanese care about PC culture and people's feelz?

Posted Image

This post has been edited by Forge: 20 February 2019 - 12:36 PM

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User is offline   ReaperAA 

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#23

View PostForge, on 20 February 2019 - 12:36 PM, said:

How much do Japanese care about PC culture and people's feelz?


Maybe u r right. I should've known better Posted Image
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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • 722

#24

Sorry, I tend to forget that duke4 isn't a Japanese forum for practicing English skills
Spoiler

-1

User is offline   Tekedon 

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#25

Apex Legends I7 4710hq GTX 850M (yotube)

I haven't played it too much, but what I've played so far seems pretty fun.

This post has been edited by Tekedon: 22 February 2019 - 01:26 PM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 468

#26

Yay, 12 minutes of gameplay and this is the number of enemies you've shot: 0. It's obvious you're champion material but all joking aside this is my biggest problem with this game: how it supports passivity over activity. It's a game you can "have fun with", it's like watching the grass grow.

Like today I played with 2 buddies and every single fucking time they were like "pls jump to a safe spot". When I'm playing with randoms I always jump to busy areas because fighting others is why I play FPS games. Sure, a lot of time it won't work out because your teammates are incompetent as fuck or because you get caught with your pants down in a bad spot... but if you do succeed in Skull Town for example then you've already started to learn something about the mechanics, it's a lot better than just dropping to a safe spot, creeping around corners for 10 minutes and just waiting to get fragged. Also: even if you're with randoms your teammates will noticeably start to take the match more seriously since we've already accomplished something.

People don't understand this though and the game is doing everything in its power to delay the inevitable (= actually shooting at something).

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 22 February 2019 - 01:42 PM

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User is offline   Tekedon 

  • 56

#27

View PostZaxx, on 22 February 2019 - 01:34 PM, said:

Yay, 12 minutes of gameplay and this is the number of enemies you've shot: 0. It's obvious you're champion material but all joking aside this is my biggest problem with this game: how it supports passivity over activity. It's a game you can "have fun with", it's like watching the grass grow.

Like today I played with 2 buddies and every single fucking time they were like "pls jump to a safe spot". When I'm playing with randoms I always jump to busy areas because fighting others is why I play FPS games. Sure, a lot of time it won't work out because your teammates are incompetent as fuck or because you get caught with your pants down in a bad spot... but if you do succeed in Skull Town for example then you've already started to learn something about the mechanics, it's a lot better than just dropping to a safe spot, creeping around corners for 10 minutes and just waiting to get fragged. Also: even if you're with randoms your teammates will noticeably start to take the match more seriously since we've already accomplished something.

People don't understand this though and the game is doing everything in its power to delay the inevitable (= actually shooting at something).


Yes.. I'm a noob at this game xD But also was not playing seriously since this was a benchmark for people with simlilar shitty pc's like I have.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 468

#28

I suck at it too, it's been so long since I've played a game with "CoD aiming" that I feel like a baby while playing. My main issue is that the game just can't hold my attention though so if there is a long time where nothing's happening I just get bored and start doing stupid shit. Apex wasn't made for me I guess.

This is me in Apex when I don't meet enemies for 10 minutes:


This post has been edited by Zaxx: 22 February 2019 - 02:47 PM

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User is offline   Tekedon 

  • 56

#29

View PostZaxx, on 22 February 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

I suck at it too, it's been so long since I've played a game with "CoD aiming" that I feel like a baby while playing. My main issue is that the game just can't hold my attention though so if there is a long time where nothing's happening I just get bored and start doing stupid shit. Apex wasn't made for me I guess.

This is me in Apex when I don't meet enemies for 10 minutes:



LOL. For me it's just a nice distraction from Blood for a while :D
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 468

#30

Thankfully I was wrong about the game's movement system to some extent. There is a bit of advanced movement in there, you can air strafe!

It works in a similar fashion as regular QuakeWorld / CPMA style bunny hopping / air strafing meaning that (on a WASD setup) if you let go of W after a jump, then hold A or D and move your mouse in the same direction you can control your air movement. It's not as powerful as in Quake so you can't do stuff like making sharp turns without losing speed BUT if you're sliding down a slope you gain additional movement speed = air strafing becomes more powerful. Basically you can use this effectively to control the direction (or rather the angle) of your sliding without losing speed.

It looks like this (kind of a noob execution for the second try because I experimented with controlling ground direction... failed at that miserably lol):

Finally, something! :D

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 01 March 2019 - 10:32 PM

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