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Wrath: Aeon of Ruin  "Formerly "3DRealms is working on a new game""

User is online   Zaxx 

  • 468

#61

Anyway what I'm really curious about is if they'll alter the Q1 physics or not. It would be great to have Q2-Q3-style strafe jumping instead of Q1's more limited strafe jumping where continous strafe jumping gives you no additional acceleration. Of course you can still bunny hop to gain more speed but I always found Q1 style bunny hopping hard as fuck.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 03 January 2019 - 05:13 PM

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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here
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#62

I am still surprised they went for the Q1 engine in general. Never imagined ever seeing a 3DR game using id technology, considering they used to be competitors back in the days. Guess they really "ain't afraid of no Quake" any more.


This post has been edited by NightFright: 03 January 2019 - 11:46 PM

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User is offline   Malgon 

  • 347

#63

They were actually using id technology (Quake 2 engine iirc) before the switch over to Unreal for DNF back in the day, so I guess they weren't really afraid of Quake back then either. ;)

Most anticipated games: Ion Maiden, Cyberpunk 2077, Doom Eternal, Beyond Good and Evil 2
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User is offline   Altered Reality 

  • 205

#64

View PostMalgon, on 03 January 2019 - 11:56 PM, said:

They were actually using id technology (Quake 2 engine iirc) before the switch over to Unreal for DNF back in the day, so I guess they weren't really afraid of Quake back then either. ;)

They got the Quake 1 source in January 1997, and the Quake 2 source in December 1997.
Quake 1 build
Quake 2 build
Note how they were bragging about the Quake 2 engine when they would not receive the source for another 8 months, and when they actually got it, they had to throw away all they did because Quake 2 does not use QuakeC.

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
-
There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 04 January 2019 - 06:06 AM

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User is offline   NightFright 

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#65

Those Quake engine builds were the DNF we deserved, but not what we got...


This post has been edited by NightFright: 04 January 2019 - 07:37 AM

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User is offline   Altered Reality 

  • 205

#66

View PostNightFright, on 04 January 2019 - 07:35 AM, said:

Those Quake engine builds were the DNF we deserved, but not what we got...

Finally, someone who agrees with me! Someone who is impervious to the hype of the 2001 trailer and realizes that 3DRealms fucked up WAY BEFORE failing to deliver the 2001 version!

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
-
There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.
0

User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here
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#67

Too bad Gearbox is sitting on the old copies, otherwise it could still happen. But well, according to Randy we would be disappointed. Weren't we later, anyway?
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User is online   MusicallyInspired 

  • 3,352

#68

View PostNightFright, on 03 January 2019 - 01:32 PM, said:

Why would they deny themselves the benefits and advantages of modern editors?
Even Romero is using recent tools for his "Sigil" Doom episode. You don't need to build oldschool to be oldschool.


I think 3DR are trying to continue to strike gold with the success that Ion Maiden, a true-blue retro Build game, is.

Quote

But it's another team that's working on the Quake game, right? TerminX and his Merry Men™ are not involved?


Right. Not Voidpoint.

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 04 January 2019 - 10:51 AM

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User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism
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  #69

lowercase p
1

User is offline   Altered Reality 

  • 205

#70

View PostNightFright, on 04 January 2019 - 09:38 AM, said:

Too bad Gearbox is sitting on the old copies, otherwise it could still happen. But well, according to Randy we would be disappointed. Weren't we later, anyway?

Blame 2K.
"No Randy, you cannot include the level editor, otherwise people would not buy DLCs and we would make slightly less money in the next fiscal quarter!" "No Randy, you cannot re-release DNF with obscure stuff only a dozen virgins in the world want to see, because that would result in a net loss for us!"

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
-
There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 04 January 2019 - 10:50 AM

2

User is online   MusicallyInspired 

  • 3,352

#71

View PostHendricks266, on 04 January 2019 - 09:58 AM, said:

lowercase p


Ah. For some reason I thought it was two words.

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
Latest release: Heretic SC-55 Music Pack (12/12/18)
*new* Buy the Mage's Initiation Original Soundtrack on Bandcamp by me!
Buy the P&C Adventure/RPG game Mage's Initiation on Steam, GOG, and Humble
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User is offline   Malgon 

  • 347

#72

View PostAltered Reality, on 04 January 2019 - 06:05 AM, said:

They got the Quake 1 source in January 1997, and the Quake 2 source in December 1997.
Quake 1 build
Quake 2 build
Note how they were bragging about the Quake 2 engine when they would not receive the source for another 8 months, and when they actually got it, they had to throw away all they did because Quake 2 does not use QuakeC.

Ahah, that's right there was Quake 1 in there, I'd forgotten about that. Thanks!

Most anticipated games: Ion Maiden, Cyberpunk 2077, Doom Eternal, Beyond Good and Evil 2
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User is offline   WolfmanFP 

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#73

View PostZaxx, on 03 January 2019 - 05:05 PM, said:

This (the "original" QuakeC, whatever that means):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuakeC
As for the level editor specifically, I have no idea.


They use TrenchBroom as far as I know.
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User is offline   thricecursed 

  • 75

#74

View PostAltered Reality, on 04 January 2019 - 06:05 AM, said:

They got the Quake 1 source in January 1997, and the Quake 2 source in December 1997.
Quake 1 build
Quake 2 build
Note how they were bragging about the Quake 2 engine when they would not receive the source for another 8 months, and when they actually got it, they had to throw away all they did because Quake 2 does not use QuakeC.


"Our goal is to release Duke Nukem Forever no later than mid-1998 and Prey late that year, making 1998 a big year for us."

lol.
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User is offline   Altered Reality 

  • 205

#75

View Postthricecursed, on 06 January 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

"Our goal is to release Duke Nukem Forever no later than mid-1998 and Prey late that year, making 1998 a big year for us."

lol.

Which highlights one of George's problems: basing plans on unverified assumptions. Note how he said "Duke Nukem Forever will have all of the functionality of Quake and bring in the new Quake II functions". Too bad it's impossible, because there's no QuakeC in Quake 2. So when the actually received the Quake 2 engine in December 1997, and George's assumption about it was proven false, they had to throw away a year of work. This caused a chain reaction: in June 1998, they realized the Quake2 engine could not do vast open areas, so, in order to show the Hoover Dam in real time, they had to switch to the Unreal engine. But this, in turn, affected Prey!

Look at the estimated schedule here: the shareware version of Prey was supposed to be done by May/June 1998 (when the engine switch for DNF took place), and the full version was supposed to come out by September/October 1998.
According to what Scott said in first DNF press release, DNF was basically a stopgap, and the release window of mid-1998 would serve the purpose of giving Prey as much space as possible. But... uh-oh! Working with the Unreal engine meant that the stopgap was now looking better than the main dish! Switching DNF to Unreal had instantly obsoleted the technology they were using for Prey, so all 3DRealms could do was cancel that version! We even know when that happened: the internal news archive abruptly stops on September 30, around the time Prey was supposed to be released, and Corrinne Yu was hired on November 19 the same year to develop a new engine!

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
-
There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 07 January 2019 - 11:23 AM

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User is offline   thricecursed 

  • 75

#76

It's a great lesson about scope creep to anyone in any field, really. Stay true to the original vision. And don't forget that limitations can often result in more creative outcomes vs having the best tools available at all times.

This post has been edited by thricecursed: 07 January 2019 - 11:29 AM

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User is offline   necroslut 

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#77

View Postthricecursed, on 07 January 2019 - 11:29 AM, said:

It's a great lesson about scope creep to anyone in any field, really. Stay true to the original vision. And don't forget that limitations can often result in more creative outcomes vs having the best tools available at all times.

With that attitude we would have never gotten Duke 3D though but a polished up version of LameDuke... With many of the more interesting games released, they've gotten interesting because they don't stay on track.

Blue barrels are heavier than regular barrels
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User is offline   thricecursed 

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#78

View Postnecroslut, on 07 January 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

With that attitude we would have never gotten Duke 3D though but a polished up version of LameDuke... With many of the more interesting games released, they've gotten interesting because they don't stay on track.


Sometimes things pop up during development, but that's the creativity I'm talking about. Which works best when you know the tools you're using, instead of jumping from one shiny thing to another.
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User is offline   Commando Nukem 

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#79

View Postnecroslut, on 07 January 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

With that attitude we would have never gotten Duke 3D though but a polished up version of LameDuke... With many of the more interesting games released, they've gotten interesting because they don't stay on track.


No...? I'm not seeing how you're drawing that conclusion.

Duke Nukem 3D was a completely different kettle of fish. LameDuke was never going to be something they released. It wasn't ready for so many reasons. With Duke3D that team wasn't stopping until the game was fun. That was primarily done with smaller mechcanil and gameplay additions, not massive shifts in engine technology. Going from QUAKE to UNREAL was a HUGE transition. HUUUGE. Trying to map in QuakeED/Hammer/Radiant and then trying to map in Unreal is a big difference alone, to say nothing about the way the engines are programmed.



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User is offline   HulkNukem 

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#80

View Postnecroslut, on 07 January 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

With that attitude we would have never gotten Duke 3D though but a polished up version of LameDuke... With many of the more interesting games released, they've gotten interesting because they don't stay on track.


On the flipside, Duke Nukem Forever.
1

User is offline   necroslut 

  • 256

#81

View PostCommando Nukem, on 07 January 2019 - 12:22 PM, said:

No...? I'm not seeing how you're drawing that conclusion.

Duke Nukem 3D was a completely different kettle of fish. LameDuke was never going to be something they released. It wasn't ready for so many reasons. With Duke3D that team wasn't stopping until the game was fun. That was primarily done with smaller mechcanil and gameplay additions, not massive shifts in engine technology. Going from QUAKE to UNREAL was a HUGE transition. HUUUGE. Trying to map in QuakeED/Hammer/Radiant and then trying to map in Unreal is a big difference alone, to say nothing about the way the engines are programmed.

Sure, but that wasn't really what I was referring to. People bring up all the time how 3DR should have made a "plan" and stuck with it, but that isn't generally how great games are made - it is how Barbie's Horseriding 4 is made.
Maybe going with Quake/QII from the start was the mistake.

View PostHulkNukem, on 07 January 2019 - 12:42 PM, said:

On the flipside, Duke Nukem Forever.

Obviously. As game development gets more and more expensive that style of development probably becomes more and more unfeasible, but I fear that means we get less and less creative and interesting games.

Blue barrels are heavier than regular barrels
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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#82

View Postnecroslut, on 07 January 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

Sure, but that wasn't really what I was referring to. People bring up all the time how 3DR should have made a "plan" and stuck with it, but that isn't generally how great games are made - it is how Barbie's Horseriding 4 is made.

It's also how Prey (2017) was made (we can rage all we want about how the IP was hijacked, but in the end, it was a damn fine game). How The Talos Principle, Crysis, GTA5, Breath of the Wild, Red Dead Redemption 2 were made. Making a game without a plan produces Daikatana, Battlecruiser 3000, Duke Nukem Forever, Limbo of the Lost.

View Postnecroslut, on 07 January 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

Maybe going with Quake/QII from the start was the mistake.

If we assume that DNF development started in January 1997, choosing Unreal from the beginning would have just meant that George would have made the same mistakes a year and a half in advance. We would've gotten exactly the same game, in the same condition of disarray... only, it would have come out in January 2010 instead of June 2011. There is only one condition in which they could have succeeded, and that is if Scott had booted out George, or formed another company taking all 3DRealms employees with him, in January 1997.
Remember, George was the person who was ecstatic they could go five more years without shipping a game.
In the end, the mistake was George's general attitude, regardless of the engine of choice.

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
-
There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.
0

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer
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#83

You can't blame engine choices for this mess. Even on the last itteration, George had way more than enough time to finish the game. He didn't.
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User is offline   VGA 

  • 14

#84

View PostTea Monster, on 07 January 2019 - 11:59 PM, said:

You can't blame engine choices for this mess. Even on the last itteration, George had way more than enough time to finish the game. He didn't.

Agreed. A ton of games have been released on the Q1, Q2, Unreal etc engines. Many of these games created by newcomers, by small teams with low budgets ... you name it. Those that had some good ideas and a willingness to work got it done.

Usually you hop onto another engine when you are NOT close to having a ready product. There's the actual problem, they didn't even get close. That's why Randy says people would be disappointed by a potential DNF dump.
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User is offline   DukeNukem64 

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#85

View PostVGA, on 09 January 2019 - 06:42 PM, said:

Agreed. A ton of games have been released on the Q1, Q2, Unreal etc engines. Many of these games created by newcomers, by small teams with low budgets ... you name it. Those that had some good ideas and a willingness to work got it done.

Usually you hop onto another engine when you are NOT close to having a ready product. There's the actual problem, they didn't even get close. That's why Randy says people would be disappointed by a potential DNF dump.


I can say with no hesitation this is BS. I have seen the "almost" done build. Frederik is not lying.
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User is offline   thricecursed 

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#86

View PostDukeNukem64, on 09 January 2019 - 09:45 PM, said:

I can say with no hesitation this is BS. I have seen the "almost" done build. Frederik is not lying.


Where have you seen it? Can you say more about it?
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User is offline   HulkNukem 

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#87

I've always held onto the belief that Randy says it barely complete while Fred says its almost complete, it's probably 50% complete.
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User is offline   VGA 

  • 14

#88

View PostDukeNukem64, on 09 January 2019 - 09:45 PM, said:

I can say with no hesitation this is BS. I have seen the "almost" done build. Frederik is not lying.

You "saw" it. Dude, in order to understand how close to completion a game is you need to check out several of its levels and see how far along they are.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • 8,227

#89

View Postthricecursed, on 10 January 2019 - 03:23 AM, said:

Where have you seen it? Can you say more about it?

He got it off a USB drive left at Medieval Times
2

User is offline   Malgon 

  • 347

#90

^
Spoiler


Most anticipated games: Ion Maiden, Cyberpunk 2077, Doom Eternal, Beyond Good and Evil 2
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