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IGN: Scott Miller Discusses DNF's Troubled Development.

User is offline   Mr. Tibbs 

#1


I had never heard that there were discussions about potentially handing the game over to Digital Extremes before!

This post has been edited by Mr. Tibbs: 15 October 2018 - 09:57 PM

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User is offline   HulkNukem 

#2

A 2003 Digital Extremes Duke Forever would've been very interesting to see.

This would've been post-UT2003, pre-UT2004 (multiplayer heaven) and Pariah (pretty meh).
They had roots with UE with Unreal and UT99, so they would've known the engine inside and out to make the grand vision of DNF a reality.
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#3

Actually sounds cool with Duke 4ever and Duke 5. Sad that George would not hand over the game :rolleyes:
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User is offline   xMobilemux 

#4

Even Miller agrees that Gearbox is getting Duke wrong and I'm so on board getting George to help with Duke's character, George was involved with all the Duke games prior to the 2011 build of Forever and it shows.
Sure they have Allen Blum, but I don't think he understands Duke as much as George, or at least he just hasn't had any opportunity to try writing the character.

I like their idea for Duke Nukem Vengeance though, with Bombshell and a returning Duke.
But I still maintain that the Demolition Man plot is perfect for a returning Duke, even Doom Eternal is taking cues from Demolition Man's plot and everyone's loving it.
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User is offline   Mr. Tibbs 

#5

Full interview is up!


Around the 1:01 hour mark, Scott mentions 3D Realms are doing "a couple of other retro games that we haven't announced, and I think we're going to have similar results [to Ion Maiden]."

This post has been edited by Mr. Tibbs: 16 October 2018 - 12:41 PM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#6

Blake Stone? Bio Menace? Hmmm.
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User is offline   Psyrgery 

#7

Greetings from ResetEra Mr.Tibbs! 😜

Just watched the whole interview, listening to Miller's point of view was amazing.

He always came off as the "all about business" kind of guy to me, but the guy really looks sensible and with an eye for smart decisions in the videogame industry.

Too bad Broussard was way too passionate about Duke
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#8

 MusicallyInspired, on 16 October 2018 - 12:58 PM, said:

Blake Stone? Bio Menace? Hmmm.

I would be all for a new Blake Stone title based on UE4. Let the new generations know the character, give them a reason to care about the character and prefer it to others.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 16 October 2018 - 02:40 PM

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User is offline   Sanek 

#9

 Psyrgery, on 16 October 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

Just watched the whole interview, listening to Miller's point of view was amazing.

He always came off as the "all about business" kind of guy to me, but the guy really looks sensible and with an eye for smart decisions in the videogame industry.


I read a couple of interviews with Miller, and he appears as a really nice guy, passionate about bringing fun games and don't forget about all the marketing stuff.
It seems strange to me that he regards Terminal Velocity as a "meh" type of game without personality, considering it was first game from 3DRealms label and had what can be considered cutting-edge tech at the time.
I also wonder what "unnanounced retro games" he was talking about. Don't get a much new anecdotes as I hoped to but anyway, this interview is great from start to finish. :rolleyes:
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User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#10

Damn. What I wouldn't give to even glimpse the alternate timeline where Duke Forever and Vengeance came out as intended...
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#11

Is there anything about World Tour in the full interview?

 Ninety-Six, on 16 October 2018 - 11:09 PM, said:

Damn. What I wouldn't give to even glimpse the alternate timeline where Duke Forever and Vengeance came out as intended...


Your eyes, because you can't glimpse without them.
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User is offline   Sanek 

#12

 PikaCommando, on 17 October 2018 - 12:54 AM, said:

Is there anything about World Tour in the full interview?

No.
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User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#13

 PikaCommando, on 17 October 2018 - 12:54 AM, said:

Your eyes, because you can't glimpse without them.


You win this round.
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#14

Duke Vengeance, what could have been. Heavy, heavy sigh.
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User is offline   HulkNukem 

#15

We probably would've had Duke Nukem VIIndication and Duke Nukem 7 which would simply be titled "Nukem" by now if George would've actually focused on finishing projects.

This post has been edited by HulkNukem: 17 October 2018 - 12:23 PM

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User is offline   necroslut 

#16

 HulkNukem, on 17 October 2018 - 09:34 AM, said:

We probably would've had Duke Nukem VIndication and Duke Nukem 6 which would simply be titled "Nukem" by now if George would've actually focused on finishing projects.

It would have been awesome to have gotten DNF back in 2002 or something, but I'm not sure it would have changed much down the line. The small-team indie developer model was becoming obsolete, unable to keep up with the rising graphical expectations and the costs and workload that came with that. Likewise PC-centric development was being left behind in favor of multiplatform and console titles, thoroughly changing game design axiomes.
Existing studios either had to change and become something else, be assimilated by the larger publishers (and churn out CoD DLC...) or, like most of them ended up doing: die.
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User is offline   Sanek 

#17

 necroslut, on 17 October 2018 - 10:42 AM, said:

It would have been awesome to have gotten DNF back in 2002 or something, but I'm not sure it would have changed much down the line. The small-team indie developer model was becoming obsolete, unable to keep up with the rising graphical expectations and the costs and workload that came with that.

While DNF's constant delays is obviously what sinked the studio, it always seemed strange to me why they didn't publish more games like they used to. If you want to survive in the business, you just can't bet everyting on one game, you should release as much games as you possibly can. Juggernaunts like EA can survive a bomb or two, but smaller studios obviously can't.
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#18

 Sanek, on 17 October 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

While DNF's constant delays is obviously what sinked the studio, it always seemed strange to me why they didn't publish more games like they used to. If you want to survive in the business, you just can't bet everyting on one game, you should release as much games as you possibly can. Juggernaunts like EA can survive a bomb or two, but smaller studios obviously can't.


I guess it's because money's needed for publishing other games and they're running dry after Max Payne.
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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#19

 necroslut, on 17 October 2018 - 10:42 AM, said:

It would have been awesome to have gotten DNF back in 2002 or something, but I'm not sure it would have changed much down the line. The small-team indie developer model was becoming obsolete, unable to keep up with the rising graphical expectations and the costs and workload that came with that. Likewise PC-centric development was being left behind in favor of multiplatform and console titles, thoroughly changing game design axiomes.
Existing studios either had to change and become something else, be assimilated by the larger publishers (and churn out CoD DLC...) or, like most of them ended up doing: die.


That wasn't really an issue for 3D Realms/Apogee though. They had a dual role and were already fairly dynamic with working on things with other development studios. Like id, Remedy, Raven, and Human Head.

The problem was getting stuck in the mud. The problem was that stupid lighting system update. If that simply hadn't happened and the 01/02 build of the game had been pushed through to completion, I think it's safe to say 3D Realms as it was might have continued to present day, and been one of the few developers to maintain it's Independence.

Duke Nukem, in the 90s, was practically a license to print money.
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#20

I can dig the what-ifs, but these dream Duke games could be made today. Or if not Duke, a SiN-esque similar tone thing with another one-liner dropping antihero could be made by a team with a dream. Gearbox has the Duke license, and like Scott was talking about Digital Extremes, Gearbox could get anybody to make a new Duke game if they want.

Just saying there's no reason we couldn't get these games today. We're getting Ion Maiden, there are all sorts of different levels of games released on steam from AAA to indie, so we could even get an ideal 2003 style Duke game if that's more feasible for the budget. Or a full on AAA one, or both, and/or something similar with a different IP from other teams, I say keep at it everyone! :rolleyes:

Seeing that Max Payne box brings me back, me and a friend went to two stores by bus since the first one wouldn't sell it to us teens. Cool interview by the way, fun vibe. Just on the what-if type stuff we often talk about, it's possibly never been easier to make some of these dream games. So maybe they're fifteen years late, hey, that's fine. We're still interested. :P Our dream games are retro-inspired FPS games, it's doable.

(editor's note: by 2003 style I mean just a general lower budget/lower detail retro 3D game year, if made today. Lot of levels of detail and of budget that could work.)

This post has been edited by PsychoGoatee: 18 October 2018 - 02:27 AM

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User is offline   gemeaux333 

#21

Well, I guess we could take risks and doing right now another game, or simply wait until the movie is release, it could work too because some movies like Last Action Hero are well present in pop culture...

When it comes to the development of DNF, some seems to have noticed that at 3D Realms, Broussard and Miller seemed to spend more time playing World of Warcraft than anything else...

This post has been edited by gemeaux333: 18 October 2018 - 07:27 AM

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#22

Personally, I am against waiting for a movie. It's the industry I currently work in and that's a bureaucratic process to navigate. My gut tells me funding for such a movie is waiting for a game to come out first. I know Randy was kind of hoping for a movie first as he mentioned in his Podcast earlier this year. That may be putting Duke at a stalemate.
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User is offline   NNC 

#23

I don't think there was a single minute in our timeline when Duke Nukem Forever looked at least promising. People are dreaming of the 1998/2001 Betas, and how amazing they might have been, but I beg to differ: it was a flawed concept with flawed execution featuring an anachronistic character. I don't believe there was any legit gameplay moment in those trailers, at least not something that have been even qualified as an alpha. Just some random ideas and staged stuff that were as real as a $3 bill.

I think this game needs to be forgotten finally, and wounds might start to heal if the people involved move on.
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User is offline   hiczok 

#24

@Nancsi
I do not agree. 2001 trailer was the most promising bit of gaming that ever existed. Just cool single player game where You do a lot of cool and fun stuff every level.
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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#25

 Nancsi, on 18 October 2018 - 12:22 PM, said:

I don't think there was a single minute in our timeline when Duke Nukem Forever looked at least promising. People are dreaming of the 1998/2001 Betas, and how amazing they might have been, but I beg to differ: it was a flawed concept with flawed execution featuring an anachronistic character. I don't believe there was any legit gameplay moment in those trailers, at least not something that have been even qualified as an alpha. Just some random ideas and staged stuff that were as real as a $3 bill.


You're wrong. Legit wrong. Completely wrong.
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#26

 Nancsi, on 18 October 2018 - 12:22 PM, said:

I don't think there was a single minute in our timeline when Duke Nukem Forever looked at least promising. People are dreaming of the 1998/2001 Betas, and how amazing they might have been, but I beg to differ: it was a flawed concept with flawed execution featuring an anachronistic character. I don't believe there was any legit gameplay moment in those trailers, at least not something that have been even qualified as an alpha. Just some random ideas and staged stuff that were as real as a $3 bill.

I think this game needs to be forgotten finally, and wounds might start to heal if the people involved move on.


You are completely wrong about the 2001 version. :rolleyes:
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User is offline   gemeaux333 

#27

Its just like Randy Pitchford said about the 2001 version and its trailer : they just got in over their heads !
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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#28

 gemeaux333, on 22 October 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:

Its just like Randy Pitchford said about the 2001 version and its trailer : they just got in over their heads !


Again. No. Randy is talking out of his ass.


They weren't in over their heads. They just got stuck in an iterative loop.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#29

 hiczok, on 18 October 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

2001 trailer was the most promising bit of gaming that ever existed.

That is just... lol. The DNF 2001 trailer is the 300 trailer of video games. I mean look at this:

Was the movie this good? Nope, it wasn't even close. I think you can put together the rest from here.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 22 October 2018 - 09:56 AM

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User is offline   gemeaux333 

#30

Why Pitchford and Miller aren't working together on the next Duke games ? Nothing would stop them !
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