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Cyberpunk 2077 - A First-Person RPG From CD Projekt Red

User is online   Futa Orc 

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#61

View PostNull, on 19 December 2020 - 12:36 AM, said:

I would assume redcandle would have asked steam first, to re-release the game, steam probably just said no, therefore there's no news of the company announcing its re-release on steam, and steam denying the game, or games disappearing from the store as that's hardly news. Steam would have probably removed it, and the studio just acted in good faith.

Only difference is redcandle thought that gog would re-release it, then gog retreaded, probably because they didn't do proper research.

No sane studio is going to release solely on gog without reason, gog has a miniscule market share compared to steam, and they don't have fortnite unreal tencent money for exclusivity deals. Gog was probably a last hope situation.

It makes no financial sense whatsoever to release solely on gog.


Thanks for those enjoyable opinions.

This post has been edited by BattleWalrus: 19 December 2020 - 01:10 AM

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User is offline   Balls of Steel Forever 

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#62

View PostBattleWalrus, on 19 December 2020 - 01:09 AM, said:

Thanks for those enjoyable opinions.

I will definitely change my opinion once I see the game rereleased on steam, until then. *Shrug*

Unless they changed it from when red Eclipse 2 got released, it only costs $100 to to put your game on the store, it's a little weird that their game isn't currently on the steam store.

There has to be something more going on then they willfully removed it.

This post has been edited by Null: 19 December 2020 - 01:20 AM

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User is offline   jkas789 

#63

Oh boi. CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT HERE WE GO!

Attached Image: Solo-Star-Wars-Story-Memes.gif
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#64

I've not followed the development of this and honestly the first 10 minutes of gameplay that I watched (after the Critical Drinker issued a video about unprofessional reviewers) did not make me that interested in the game at all, but now I'm wondering, not only was it worth the hype, and was it worth the trouble that is brewing with refunds and all?

What's happening to the industry anyway? Didn't we have discussions here a while ago where opinions were voiced advocating refunds versus the good old fashioned demo versions as an excellent, state of the art way to "try before you buy", and now said refunds seem to be actively destroying a developer who flunked on the initial release? Makes one wonder.
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User is offline   Balls of Steel Forever 

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#65

View PostMrFlibble, on 19 December 2020 - 12:02 PM, said:

I've not followed the development of this and honestly the first 10 minutes of gameplay that I watched (after the Critical Drinker issued a video about unprofessional reviewers) did not make me that interested in the game at all, but now I'm wondering, not only was it worth the hype, and was it worth the trouble that is brewing with refunds and all?

What's happening to the industry anyway? Didn't we have discussions here a while ago where opinions were voiced advocating refunds versus the good old fashioned demo versions as an excellent, state of the art way to "try before you buy", and now said refunds seem to be actively destroying a developer who flunked on the initial release? Makes one wonder.

It's good that refunds are happening.

Hopefully sony and microsoft expand their refund policies.

This is refunds being used exactly how they should be, given that cd Projekt is encouraging it, I see no problem with it.

They fucked up.

Game studios fuck up all the time.

At least they're recognizing their fuck up. And apologizing for it.

The publishing arm should have not oversold the game to it's investors and to us with advertisements. That's why it's a huge issue. It's sad that people are going to lose their jobs over it.

This post has been edited by Null: 19 December 2020 - 02:35 PM

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User is online   Futa Orc 

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#66

I started watching a stream and it's bumming me out the devs got shafted so hard. The launch of Carmageddon Reincarnation taught me that you can only make a first impression once...

It's a shame cause the game looks really cool otherwise, I like the characters and the story, but yeah this needed like 8 months to a year of work.
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#67

View PostMrFlibble, on 19 December 2020 - 12:02 PM, said:

What's happening to the industry anyway?

The continued shift from focus on your hobby customer to the media customer. It occasionally pays off and when it does... oh man... entire new HR departments are invented just to beat down the creativity of the massive influx of developers who think making video games is forever riding the crest of Shell Games at worst.

While Witcher went mainstream gaming in a way, Witcher 3 is still FLAGRANTLY aimed at exceeding the grandest expectation of the only people that were fans of prior Witcher releases. Hobby gamers.

So there isn't anything wrong with the industry, it still has all the appropriate pressure points. Just some folks over-estimate their ability to overcome those natural pressure points and also just don't notice when they aren't playing in the hobby pond but are now out in the shark ocean.
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User is offline   Danukem 

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#68

View PostBattleWalrus, on 19 December 2020 - 04:28 PM, said:

I started watching a stream and it's bumming me out the devs got shafted so hard. The launch of Carmageddon Reincarnation taught me that you can only make a first impression once...

It's a shame cause the game looks really cool otherwise, I like the characters and the story, but yeah this needed like 8 months to a year of work.


I'll be happy to buy and play the fully patched game late in 2021 at a discount.

Maybe it's just me but it seems like people are less tolerant of unfinished games being released than they used to be. That's probably a good thing, but watching it unfold is brutal.

EDIT: I wonder if they could have salvaged the release date by delaying only the legacy console release by another three months, and just focused on PC and PS5. Then even if it ran like shit on the legacy consoles later, the initial release could have been good and the damage would be limited.

This post has been edited by Danukem: 19 December 2020 - 05:09 PM

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#69

View PostDanukem, on 19 December 2020 - 05:02 PM, said:

I'll be happy to buy and play the fully patched game late in 2021 at a discount.

Maybe it's just me but it seems like people are less tolerant of unfinished games being released than they used to be. That's probably a good thing, but watching it unfold is brutal.

EDIT: I wonder if they could have salvaged the release date by delaying only the legacy console release by another three months, and just focused on PC and PS5. Then even if it ran like shit on the legacy consoles later, the initial release could have been good and the damage would be limited.

I feel like they should have pulled a reverse square enix, focused on solely the pc release, and released the console versions at a later date. Especially given that CD Projekt mainly markets for pc gamers, at least, used to.

Especially given that the ps5 and ps4 versions of cyberpunk are fundamentally the same, with the ps4 pro version being 30 fps instead of 60.

I guess more of a serious Sam 4 but w/o contractual obligations.

But well, they fucked themselves.

This post has been edited by Null: 19 December 2020 - 06:54 PM

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User is offline   Player Lin 

#70

That's why I still stick on PC.
Yes, there are some good games on consoles, I won't deny that. But...sometimes it may made the game worse than PC for whatever reasons.

And CDP may want more profits by target consoles too, sadly, it bite them so hard because they cannot finished all ports on the same time and rushed them to meet deadline...

Shit, it looks like still people never learned that from those failed games in past, history repeats again... :(

This post has been edited by Player Lin: 20 December 2020 - 12:52 AM

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User is offline   Scarred 

#71

I haven't watched any trailers since that announcement one 7(?) years ago and all i heard awhile ago was that u could customize your body. its really immersive, awesome city but there is very little u can do outside the side quest ( which are very fun ) im only up to act 2 and game is running fine for me besides those annoying bugs. wish you could choose body size ( fat, skinny ect ). i heard alot of shit was promised but got cut. i'll watch all the trailers after i finish the game to see how awesome it could of been ( like bioshock infinite )

Game reminds me of Cybermage which i loved back in the day.

This post has been edited by Scarred: 21 December 2020 - 06:02 AM

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User is offline   jkas789 

#72

Yeah a lot of stuff was cut apparently. Slightly reminds me of another game... ;)

View PostScarred, on 21 December 2020 - 06:00 AM, said:


Game reminds me of Cybermage which i loved back in the day.


It is indeed a fun game.
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#73

View Postjkas789, on 21 December 2020 - 06:21 AM, said:

Yeah a lot of stuff was cut apparently.

I'm curious to see if it can get the KOTOR Sith Lords treatment.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#74

The problem with the industry releasing unfinished games now versus yesteryear is that they don't even try to convince you the game is finished anymore. We know now that Duke Nukem 3D wasn't completely finished when it was released, and that last quarter of content was rolled into an expansion pack. Splitting it up was a forethought, not an afterthought. That's a fine business model, really.

But the advent of high speed internet has created a problem. When Duke3D was released, they had to convince the consumer that the game was finished. Even a 10mb patch was a big deal back then and not everyone had internet. Now a game can be pressed to disc months ahead, and released with a massive day one patch.

The problem is that this doesn't hold the devs' feet to the fire. Oftentimes the games are still broken pieces of shit with the day one patch. Shudder to think what it'd be like without that patch. Unfortunately many of these games don't ever get fixed or it takes a year or more and by then no one really cares.

Anyone who has ever even dabbled in hobbyist game development knows that oftentimes you are not going to hit deadlines. The same is true for professional development. 3DR's policy of "When It's Done" would be pretty smart for the industry going forward, if used properly. But it wouldn't be, even if they tried.

The expectations of the average gamer and the industry big wigs are too high. Much like Hollywood before them, they are creating a bubble. And when that bubble bursts, there will be Hell to pay.

You can already see people betting on this bubble bursting (and it's a good bet) with the rise of more niche hobbyist games coming out like more indie Boomer Shooters. Even Nintendo, surprisingly, has wisely bet on "smaller" games like Animal Crossing and it is paying off for them.

This post has been edited by Jimmy: 21 December 2020 - 01:52 PM

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User is offline   Danukem 

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#75

Haha so in addition to all the other problems, it turns out that if your save file exceeds 8MB it becomes corrupted and you can't play the game. And your save file will grow automatically as you play the game and especially if you use the (highly unbalanced) crafting system.


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User is offline   Scarred 

#76

View PostJimmy, on 21 December 2020 - 01:48 PM, said:

The problem with the industry releasing unfinished games now versus yesteryear is that they don't even try to convince you the game is finished anymore. We know now that Duke Nukem 3D wasn't completely finished when it was released, and that last quarter of content was rolled into an expansion pack. Splitting it up was a forethought, not an afterthought. That's a fine business model, really.

But the advent of high speed internet has created a problem. When Duke3D was released, they had to convince the consumer that the game was finished. Even a 10mb patch was a big deal back then and not everyone had internet. Now a game can be pressed to disc months ahead, and released with a massive day one patch.

The problem is that this doesn't hold the devs' feet to the fire. Oftentimes the games are still broken pieces of shit with the day one patch. Shudder to think what it'd be like without that patch. Unfortunately many of these games don't ever get fixed or it takes a year or more and by then no one really cares.

Anyone who has ever even dabbled in hobbyist game development knows that oftentimes you are not going to hit deadlines. The same is true for professional development. 3DR's policy of "When It's Done" would be pretty smart for the industry going forward, if used properly. But it wouldn't be, even if they tried.

The expectations of the average gamer and the industry big wigs are too high. Much like Hollywood before them, they are creating a bubble. And when that bubble bursts, there will be Hell to pay.

You can already see people betting on this bubble bursting (and it's a good bet) with the rise of more niche hobbyist games coming out like more indie Boomer Shooters. Even Nintendo, surprisingly, has wisely bet on "smaller" games like Animal Crossing and it is paying off for them.


its pretty funny and sad how AAA gaming has had on the market. so many broken games and now Ubisoft is talking about how they are making a AAAA game lol.

Man if i was running CDPR i would just keep updating and adding stuff to cyberpunk. it has so much potential and they could do alot with this world.

i might pick up the books(?). they are on sale on humble bundle

This post has been edited by Scarred: 21 December 2020 - 08:11 PM

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User is online   Futa Orc 

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#77

View PostJimmy, on 21 December 2020 - 01:48 PM, said:

Anyone who has ever even dabbled in hobbyist game development knows that oftentimes you are not going to hit deadlines. The same is true for professional development. 3DR's policy of "When It's Done" would be pretty smart for the industry going forward, if used properly. But it wouldn't be, even if they tried.


Wasn't that coined by id software/John Carmack originally? Carmack later came to disown the phrase after the lengthy development cycle of Rage. He felt that if you wait too long, the industry can move on.

I mean, I know you wrote, "if used properly", but I'd just like to add what I think properly in this context should mean: focus on the essentials and avoid scope creep. I'd rather have somewhat limited games that do a few things really well vs games that try to do everything, but badly.

In the case of Cyberpunk, I'm finding out that CDPR has been working on it since 2012. Getting something as broken as this after 8 years is really an amazing achievement in itself. I desperately want to read a post mortem.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#78

They very well could have gotten it from id Software, but DNF's development definitely made the phrase popular, and a joke. And I agree with your sentiment. I'd rather pay for a small game that gets a dozen quality add-ons over time. With a game like Cyberpunk I know that it's supposed to be a large open world, but you could at least set it up for the world to grow in installments. Grand Theft Auto does this well (or at least it used to, San Andreas was the last one I played.) Games like this should just have daily, weekly, and monthly updates. It even fits the "Games as a Service" model the industry wants, but they're too stupid to make any of this stuff work right.

What's funny is that the industry also discourages/prevents community creation and mods, so their dedicated fans can't even fix the game for them, and create more sales. Dumb, shortsighted, and greedy industry.

This post has been edited by Jimmy: 21 December 2020 - 09:07 PM

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User is online   Futa Orc 

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#79

Another thing that GTA did well:



lol

But yeah, triple-A these days just means "early access, full price". Maybe that'll start to change now.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#80

Holy shit that's bad.
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User is offline   Balls of Steel Forever 

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#81

View PostJimmy, on 21 December 2020 - 09:30 PM, said:

Holy shit that's bad.

Water doesn't react to bullets or explosions in 2077, they put nanites in the water to break down pollutants, and the nanites also have the side effect of negating physics.

This post has been edited by Null: 22 December 2020 - 04:16 AM

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#82

View PostJimmy, on 21 December 2020 - 09:30 PM, said:

Holy shit that's bad.

This "problem" was solved in games that are 20 years old.

Look... motion capture > grenades in water where water is an almost irrelevant part of the user space.

Yes it's dumb it wasn't setup to just spawn a different VFX based on volume, but I'd bet almost everyone working on the project were like "Wait... some people are spending time near the water throwing grenades? Why? Who cares?"
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#83

Let me rewind a bit.

Republic Commando is damn near universally praised. And it has some of the most egregious first person shooter sins you can commit. It has OVERT... not masked but OVERT infinite spawns.

It also has a situation where you kill a droid in a turret. You command one of your squad to take over the turret. Literally 5 or less seconds later, the game spawns in plain view if you are far enough forward... another droid which walks 10 feet forward and gets in the turret. Then your squadmate goes "Derp... well I can't shoot him so I will run back to my last cover with my back to all gunfire and die." Even if you have an active command to take the turret, can SEE the turret and the spawn, and the unit about to take over the turret is mere inches from taking the turret. DGAF game design. Git Gud (which everyone did).

This is all happening while 5 feet away from the infinite droid to turret spawn... is a giant structure you have to spend half a minute or so interacting with to disable so that it will stop spawning an entirely DIFFERENT group of droids that have nothing to do with the turret. There is no equivalent spawner for the little turret droids, they are just pure magic.

And this is an overwhelmingly revered first person shooter experience.

So I think CDPR made some dumb mistakes during promotion, and it's their own fault people care about grenade splashes in water... but it's still a super dumb thing to care about grenade splashes because everyone knows nobody would care if there wasn't a hype train about finding every flaw.

This post has been edited by FunFilledFaith: 22 December 2020 - 08:32 AM

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User is offline   jkas789 

#84

To be fair. Environment interactivity is something that has become expected, Not a feature.

Also Republic Commando came out in 2005. And for all that it is revered it is full of jank.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#85

I know what you mean Chuck, and from the inside maybe your biases are different from mine. To me it just looks like zero effort was expelled there, a complete oversight. Even Duke Nukem 3D has water react to things falling into it, granted it doesn't have different effects for explosions on or in water, but that was 1996. I could let the basic explosion effect underwater slide, but the fact that there's smoke coming up from under the water is pretty bad, dude. Does it make the game bad? Certainly not. I think people are being too harsh for sure. But it is fucking raw, and that's a bad look. They should have delayed for a few more months and ignored the haters.

I also think at this point making console ports of PC games is an absolute mistake if you can't afford to outsource that to someone else. The last gen ports were a HUGE mistake and should have been canceled months back. It's a next gen game, get over it.

This post has been edited by Jimmy: 22 December 2020 - 09:26 AM

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#86

View PostJimmy, on 22 December 2020 - 09:21 AM, said:

I know what you mean Chuck, and from the inside maybe your biases are different from mine.

Except I'm not on the inside anymore. :dukewhistle:

View Postjkas789, on 22 December 2020 - 08:44 AM, said:

Also Republic Commando came out in 2005. And for all that it is revered it is full of jank.

2005 is WELL beyond when all the types of jank in Republic Commando had been solved. Tolerance for jank is extremely context sensitive.

Cyberpunk has earned a DNF treatment for better and worse... of being great fun to find anything wrong with. DNF was SOOO wrong though that finding things wrong wasn't even very fun. Cyberpunk is actually good enough in enough places (and on PC/next gen consoles) that you can hyper amplify the problems for fun and profit.

I think long term the technical issues will fade away and the general shallowness of real choice will come to the forefront of concern compared to their previous offerings.
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User is online   Futa Orc 

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#87

I agree that Cyberpunk looks like a good game that's very rough around the edges (as opposed to DNF which is just crap all around), but not that many are denying it. Everyone always caveats their reviews with, "but I still had fun", etc.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#88

View PostFunFilledFaith, on 22 December 2020 - 09:56 AM, said:

Except I'm not on the inside anymore. :dukewhistle:

Damn bro, congrats.

View PostFunFilledFaith, on 22 December 2020 - 09:56 AM, said:

I think long term the technical issues will fade away and the general shallowness of real choice will come to the forefront of concern compared to their previous offerings.

I already see people saying it's not as good as New Vegas because the decision making doesn't really matter.

View PostBattleWalrus, on 22 December 2020 - 09:59 AM, said:

I agree that Cyberpunk looks like a good game that's very rough around the edges (as opposed to DNF which is just crap all around), but not that many are denying it. Everyone always caveats their reviews with, "but I still had fun", etc.

Dunking on CDPR is a meme perpetuated by lefties like Jim Sterling and his ilk that don't like them for political reasons. I would also suspect that AAA Studios are behind some of this shit too. CDPR and Good Old Games are counter to their narrative.

This post has been edited by Jimmy: 22 December 2020 - 10:28 AM

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User is online   Futa Orc 

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#89

View PostJimmy, on 22 December 2020 - 10:20 AM, said:

Dunking on CDPR is a meme perpetuated by lefties like Jim Sterling and his ilk that don't like them for political reasons.


It is rather amusing they made a game about California 50 years in the future that socio-culturally is more like Eastern Europe in 2020.
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#90

View PostJimmy, on 22 December 2020 - 10:20 AM, said:

Damn bro, congrats.



View PostJimmy, on 22 December 2020 - 10:20 AM, said:

I already see people saying it's not as good as New Vegas because the decision making doesn't really matter.

Playing through the character creation and intro as corp, I just wanted to go re-install some New Vegas mods and fire it up again. Even though I broke down and bought it so I could noodle with making ex girlfriends in the character creator, I'll still not play the story for another month or two.

View PostJimmy, on 22 December 2020 - 10:20 AM, said:

CDPR and Good Old Games are counter to their narrative.

Yarp. Show me the man who hates CDPR and I'll show you the criminal jank in games they like.
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