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AN UPDATED EDITART  "AN UPDATED EDITART"

User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 12

#1

I started a topic on the DUKE MEGATON forum on STEAM about an updated EDITART (topic name: An updated EDITART and more backwards compatibility for old DOS .ART files). >M@tEo$< recommended that I start a new topic on here about this.

-L7- themaniacboy replied with a comment recommending me to use EDuke32. This solved almost all of my problems (listed on the first post under the STEAM topic). The only problem left was my 511 X 400 tiles for skies/floors were cut in half. Did some experimenting and found out that it was just the renderer (as stated on post dated June 9, 2018 @ 4:59:48 pm EDT).

The only problem left is there is no WINDOWS version of EDITART like there is of BUILD (Mapster32). EDITART still works on 7, 8, 8.1, and 10, but it would be nice if there was a program to import, create, manipulate, and animate all in one. I donít have a major problem using the DOSBox to use EDITART; I work in a DOS folder anyway. Yet it would still be convenient, and preferable for others who like the EDITART and classic look, to just double click and do whatever.

I have over 1,600 tiles and three dozen 511 X 400s that I have created over a period of 10 years. I am a heavy EDITART user and abuser, and would appreciate if someone would look into this.

Iím not a programmer; all I want to do is just copy and paste my maps, .ART files, and .CON files into the EDuke32 directory. Iím just a copy and paste guy. I just change simple things in the USER.CON file. Iím saying this in case someone thinks Iím proficient with programming; itís just maps, art, and simple changes in .CON files.

I do like EDuke32 much better than the MEGATON EDITION.
What I like about EDuke32:
Classic rendering
Classic look, but with the ability to use the mouse in menus
Mapster32
In game controller configuration
Understands .ART files (just copy and paste)
Understands .CON files
Can add more sounds simply by using the DEF.CON and USER.CON files
256 Voices

If a new EDITART is made, then I will move on to EDuke32 instead of using a DOSBox for everything. Personally, I want there to always be a DOSBox and the CLASSIC DOS version; I have used the DOSBox from XP to 10 and it works fine, but EDITART and BUILD are a little slow between switching screens/modes on 8, 8.1, and 10. The CLASSIC folder is one of the few things I like about the MEGATON EDITION, with one exception: the EDITART did not go past FRAMEEFECT, so I just copied and pasted the V1.4 EDITART from the PLUTONIUM EDITION, and have been using it ever since.

There is a reason why after multiple viruses and a video card failure, I have been able to continue without any setbacks. People like me believe in multiple backups and a secondary way to execute or open something. Having a backup plan is very important to me, which is why I canít completely leave the DOSBox and DOS version behind Ė it has proven itself.

Theoretically all of the parts are here, except EDITART32.
My vision of the next step would have a version that includes:
For DOSBox use
DOSBox
DUKE3D
BUILD
EDITART

For Windows use
EDuke32
Mapster32
EDITART32 (working title)
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User is offline   Perro Seco 

  • 263

#2

View Postrkilyan, on 09 June 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:

The only problem left is there is no WINDOWS version of EDITART like there is of BUILD (Mapster32). EDITART still works on 7, 8, 8.1, and 10, but it would be nice if there was a program to import, create, manipulate, and animate all in one.
I've never been able to understand Editart. However, there are better and more intuitive programs (in my opinion), like BAFed, DukeRes or BastArt. They all work in Windows.

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User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 12

#3

View PostPerro Seco, on 09 June 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

I've never been able to understand Editart. However, there are better and more intuitive programs (in my opinion), like BAFed, DukeRes or BastArt. They all work in Windows.


Thank you for your response Perro Seco.

You said youíve never been able to understand EDITART. EDITART allows someone to create a tile, import a picture and edit it, and edit existing tiles. There are also animation, offset, and tile editing tools built into it. EDITART can do far more than what these programs have shown me.

Iíve been using EDITART for 10 years, made over 1,600 tiles, and have been working on 4 episodes (44 maps). The vast majority of those tiles have been created in EDITART from scratch; very few of them started from an imported picture. As a heavy EDITART user, I can say that it is useful and convenient, but annoying and dangerous at times; I have learned how to handle it, and it can be a very powerful tool.

I appreciate the potential solutions, but have not found what I want. However, I did download and try to use these. Some parts of them are easy to understand and intuitive, but not really what I wanted. It was worth the investigation: BAFed could be the most useful, if there are no other programs or developments.

BAFed: It isnít really what I was looking for, but may be useful. It is good that I can import pictures (256 Bitmaps) and create new .ART files (TILE024.ART), but the pallets in the game look funny. The way BAFed prompts the user is practical, when starting a new .ART file. Unfortunately I canít edit anything as much as I could in EDITART.

DukeRes: I donít see how DukeRes is useful. I did notice that I can expand beyond TILES023.ART and did view a test dummy TILES024.ART in Mapster32 (TILES023.ART renamed to TILES024.ART after I clicked and dragged TILES023.ART into the DukeRes window). Unfortunately I donít see how I can create tiles from scratch, import, or import and edit MSPaint or Artweaver 256 Bitmap images.

BastART: Got an error message: Component ĎCOMDLG32.OCXí or one of its dependencies not correctly registered: a file is missing or invalid.

If anyone is thinking of creating an EDITART32 (working title), you can always talk to me on what an EDITART user might be expecting.
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User is offline   oasiz 

  • 1,006

#4

You can use tilefromtexture to import png files into tiles.
I recently released a rudimentary offset/animation tool for png files My link

Editart is a nice suite though, however its limitations do make it quite obsolete
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User is offline   Perro Seco 

  • 263

#5

View Postrkilyan, on 12 June 2018 - 07:44 PM, said:

EDITART allows someone to create a tile, import a picture and edit it, and edit existing tiles. There are also animation, offset, and tile editing tools built into it.
I know what Editart does, but what I meant is that I've never bothered to learn how to use it because its lack of intuitivity (does this word exists? :D).

So I use DukeRes the most, and everything you named can be done with it, except editing the picture's pixels. For that I use Paint Shop Pro, which has more tools to create and edit textures easily. Other people use Photoshop, but for me that's another hard to understand program.

I'm almost sure that Editart32 will never happen. I found some people still using it, but they switched to those other programs when I told them about it.

By the way...

View Postrkilyan, on 12 June 2018 - 07:44 PM, said:

have been working on 4 episodes (44 maps)
Are all those maps available to the public? Four episodes sounds interesting, I would like to know more about it.

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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador
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  #6

EDITART is not likely to ever be ported to anything but DOS. It's full of enough nasty DOS code that any such effort would be closer to rewriting than porting, and the utility isn't part of our workflow on IM at all.

EDuke32 ē wiki ē svn builds ē bugs
Join us in #eduke32 on irc.freenode.net!
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User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 12

#7

INTUITIVITY
Intuitivity does not exist. To make it exist: right click, a menu will open up, and then left click on, Add to Dictionary. Congratulations, you have created a new word on our computers and added one to our vocabularies.

***[Initial word declaration tag: 06/13/2018, 10:19 AM, by Perro Seco]***

Yes, EDITART is not an intuitive program. I had to look in the Duke Level Design Handbook for just starting EDITART, and the key assignments. I have learned them well enough to be fast with making tiles.

DUKERES
I did find out how to insert my .ART files into the DUKE3D.GRP and tested it. It did work. That is so much better than having a bunch of .ART files floating around the directory. However, the altered .GRP makes the EDUKE32 launcher only display the Nuclear Winter one and gives an error when STARTED; this never happened when I just copied and pasted the .ART files into the EXPERIMENTAL EDUKE32 Folder. To fix that problem, I renamed the Duke 3D Folder that Steam uses. I just put the word OFF in front of it and changed it back when I restored the original .GRP file in the EXPERIMENTAL EDUKE32 FOLDER, after the experiment. I have the modified DUKE3D.GRP in the MEGATON GAMEROOT Folder and that works fine.

I think I will be switching to DukeRes one day, Perro Seco, but I have some questions:

Q1: Where is tilefromtexture? I cannot find it anywhere. That would make it so much easier, rather than use BAFed for pictures to tiles, and DukeRes for tiles to .ART files. If someone can import pictures into DukeRes, then I cannot find how.
Q2: How do I import a picture (ex: MSPaint, Paint Shop Pro, Artweaver) into DukeRes?
Q3: What are the proper imported image formats (ex: png, bmp) and size (ex: 320 x 200)?
Q4: How do I import a picture into an empty slot in an .ART file that already exists?
Q5: How do I open an ART file, if I want to edit the pixels of only one or a few individual tiles?
Q6: How do I load a pallet into another program (ex: MSPaint, Paint Shop Pro, Artweaver) so the tiles do not look oddly colored in the game?
Q7: Is there a manual on how to use DukeRes? The help button did not work. Then I tried the Dukeres.hlp and it said, “The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows. However, you can download a program that will allow you to view Help created in the Windows Help format.”
After the update from a Microsoft site, the message then said, “Cannot display this help file. Try opening the help file again, and if you still get this message, copy the help file to a different drive, and try again.”
I reinstalled it, and the help file still did not work.
It would be nice if there was a manual or instructions.

What would be the problem if DukeRes had a modification with basic pixel manipulation like in EDITART? The idea of what EDITART does is practice, but the program, which from the sound of it, seems to be loaded with ancient DOS quirks. What exactly are those quirks? No one has ever explained that, but I do not need to know. Thanks, TerminX for brining that up. That’s why it would be nice to start out with a program like DukeRes and build on top of it. EDITART is unyielding, dangerous, and arguably obsolete, even though it is an all-in-one program from pictures to tiles in the .ART array.

Some people would ask, if you need multiple programs to do the job of an obsolete one, then what is the advantage, and how is the other one obsolete?

I find it disturbing how the same people who urged me to upgrade from XP to Vista, windows 7 to 8, and windows 7 to 10 were the first ones to complain about how it wasn’t the best. “Hey, my games don’t work”, “hey my internal internet card doesn’t work anymore”, “my pictures are fuzzy”, “my DVD drive doesn’t work”, “my Digital Dolby Equalizer thing doesn’t work”, In my experience, sometimes the latest and greatest isn’t so great.

Perhaps it is time to think about merging some of these programs’ functions together.

Hey, do you think the best programing language (qb64) could be used to make a more user friendly equivalence of EDITART? It could combine DukeRes, BAFed, that animation program from oasiz, and some MSPaint mixed with EDITART-like pixel manipulation tools. I do like the interfaces, ease of navigating through them, and use of the mouse (keesteesee: now there's a word).

-Thanks for the Help so far

This post has been edited by rkilyan: 17 June 2018 - 12:34 AM

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User is online   BlitZ 

  • Banned on Rigel
  • 4,634

#8

If you'd like to continue using EDITART I'd suggest using my packaging of the latest version of it. It's more stable in most ways.

DOS / DOSBox Emulation Wrapper

FREE JOHNNY!
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User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 12

#9

View PostJimmy, on 18 June 2018 - 05:22 PM, said:

If you'd like to continue using EDITART I'd suggest using my packaging of the latest version of it. It's more stable in most ways.

DOS / DOSBox Emulation Wrapper


Thanks, Jimmy

Aside from all the other issues, most of them resolved, 15,360 tiles (60 files. Art) is way better than the ORIGINAL EDITART. I tested it out with the DOS version: it can only handle 24 .ART FILES (000 to 023). I then tested it with EDuke32: works perfectly in Mapster32 and EDuke32. I appreciate this.

-rkilyan

This post has been edited by rkilyan: 19 June 2018 - 09:14 PM

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User is offline   Striker 

  • Auramancer
  • 1,034

#10

I suggest BAFed. It supports modern image formats, and will properly convert true-color images to the Duke Palette instead of erroring out like DukeRes. It also allows setting animations, offsets, and whatnot just like EDITART. It also displays offsets correctly, unlike DukeRes. From there, I suggest using something like GIMP, Photoshop, or Paint.NET to edit your images.
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User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 12

#11

Oh yes, BAFed is far better than DukeRes. I did say those other programs were not very useful, BUT after playing with them more, I realized using BAFed was far better than DukeRes. My liking with it is, it can also EXPORT a tile, in case if I would like to have some temples.

I have used BAFed to also align tiles that need offsets. In EDITART, certain size tiles cannot be aligned using the ` key, so instead, I had to use BAFed. Some tiles like the mice have to be aligned by the FEET, because of the tail, so that way they stay in one spot as you move around them. The JAB-Adrian Statue.png demonstrates this. The tile had to be shifted over (not rotated); I had to move the middle point to be between the legs. You will notice the tails make this tile odd because the middle to our understanding is different than that of the computer's. When the statue was NOT adjusted, the feet were moving off of the column, because the actual mid point was closer to the tails and not between the legs. Yet another reason why BAFed is a good tool to have.

Yes as you have stated and as I found out, the IMPORTING is so much easier than DukeRes concerning sizes of the images and colors. However, I did make this thing called, BLOCK.png. I use BLOCK.png as a color template in paint. I make an image in MS PAINT using this thing as a color reference. Then I IMPORT the image into BAFed. Finally, I do more adjustments and animate it in EDITART. Since BAFed works both ways (IMPORT and EXPORT) I can reload it into MS PAINT without discarding any of the changes I made to the tile in EDITART.

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: JAB-Adrian Statue.png
  • Attached Image: BLOCK.png

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User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 12

#12

Thanks to all of the input from you guys, I think I can ask the same question EXCEPT in reverse.

Are there any thoughts of having a BAFed with a modification to mimic EDITART? Meaning just like BAFed, but with a Sub-module or some Tool mode called "Pixel Edit". It could be called BAFedART, or BAFed 2.0.

We know how much EDITART is hard to use, it's unyielding, and very annoying. However, I have used it for years and have made 100's of tiles using it alone, prior to you guys showing me other programs.

"Going from scratch?"

Yes.

Few tiles started as imported, because EDITART is so irritating with bringing stuff in. It needs to be EXACTLY 320 x 200 pixels or it doesn't work, even if the actual picture is only 64 x 64. I don't know how the makers of Duke 3D used this program to IMPORT art into the game. I found it was much easier to create artwork from scratch, directly in the array itself. BAFed makes IMPORTING far easier; no need to mess with the dimensions.

On the other hand, I still use EDITART once the tile has been IMPORTED. The pixel manipulation tools are crude, but I've made 100's of tiles, over 1600, with it alone. So is having pixel editing functionality added to BAFed that impractical?

One of the major initial reasons for why I wanted another art program was due to space, but I am glad I started asking questions. In doing so, all of you, your input has significantly upgraded the tools that I use. DOS DUKE3D to EDuke32, BUILD to Mapster32, and OLD EDITART to new EDITART with more space and BAFed, was all from your suggestions. I am glad I asked. I'm sure others may find this discussion to be useful also, thanks to your inputs.

Personally, I still think that giving BAFed pixel manipulation tools just like in EDITART would benefit some people out there. It could be practice in some situations. Sometimes when you see a tile in BAFed or EDITART, it is missing the application. Sometimes I see the artwork better in Mapster and Duke then I do just seeing a picture. I'm one of those people who just wants something that can be used as an easy tweak tool, like EDITART, to get it just right. Programs like GIMP and Artweaver are very complex and may be intimidating to some people coming out of EDITART, yet MS PAINT is too simple, but can be useful for making crude shapes and lines. EDITART's pixel tools are significantly better than MS PAINT's, but easier to understand, for me, than GIMP and Artweaver.

It seems like all it comes down to is, what programs we learned on and the strategy we used to build our world. Some people like using Artweaver, others may not see a need for it if EDITART gets the job done too.

Thanks you guys for your input.

I posted some screen shots from D1_E1L1

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: SCREEN SHOT.png
  • Attached Image: SCREEN SHOT 2.png
  • Attached Image: SCREEN SHOT 3.png


This post has been edited by rkilyan: 18 February 2019 - 09:56 PM

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User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 12

#13

Here are some screenshots with backgrounds, and a few other things I've made in EDITART, just to show what these Simple Pixel Editing tools can do. I did use BAFed to help with IMPORTING and EXPORTING.

In my personal opinion, sometimes the Backdrops and Background Sky (Parallax Sky) can make the map stand-out, feel and look bigger, and immerse the player deeper into the world. The Background Skies in D1_E1L6, D1_E4L8, and D1_E4L10 were made to demonstrate what the map really is; they show what it truly means to be inside a Plasma Venting Facility, a Volcanic Enrichment Station, and the Bio-Catacombs.

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: JAB.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E1L6 Plasma Venting Background.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E2L4 Outside area.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E2L5 preview of D1_E2L6.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E2L9 Background.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E3L2 Background.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E3L3 Background.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E3L5.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E3L6 Background.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E3L6 Overflow area.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E4L8 1.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E4L8 2.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E4L8 3.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E4L10 Bio-Catacombs Upstairs.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E4L10 Bio-Catacombs Sewer-Bio drainage.png
  • Attached Image: City with Volcanos.png
  • Attached Image: More Volcanos (D1_E4L3).png
  • Attached Image: Fire Background.png
  • Attached Image: Adrian.png


This post has been edited by rkilyan: 19 February 2019 - 08:00 PM

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User is offline   Hank 

  • 2,181

#14

View Postrkilyan, on 19 February 2019 - 07:37 PM, said:

Here are some screenshots with backgrounds, and a few other things I've made in EDITART, just to show what these Simple Pixel Editing tools can do. I did use BAFed to help with IMPORTING and EXPORTING.

Holy shit dude! :dukecigar: :wub: :o

May I recommend moving from Editart to something like Krita ?
Sure, it may take a week or so to get the hang of this program, but once learned, the sky is the limit.

For starters here is the duke palette Attached File  duke3d.zip (1.8K)
Number of downloads: 48 (its' in the Gimp format, but I will not recommend the Gimp to do art from scratch) then go into the Krita manual to see how to import it, and then you can paint just like you would in Editart, only much more comfortable. :)

Ein sarkastischer Deutscher a.k.a. Thought Criminal.

This post has been edited by Hank: 19 February 2019 - 09:03 PM

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User is offline   Zaxtor 

  • 1,760

#15

Nice stuff.
Is almost like Doom except has lots of volcanic activity etc.

Trequonia TC's Status:
Levels : 100% done - Textures : 100% done - Sounds : 100% done - Musics :100% done
Mod is finished, going to test it.
Trequonia's Official website
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User is offline   Rellik 

  • 72

#16

Reminds me of Terraria's underworld
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User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 12

#17

View PostZaxtor, on 21 February 2019 - 03:30 PM, said:

Nice stuff.
Is almost like Doom except has lots of volcanic activity etc.


That's why I called it DOOMED. There are many concepts based on the original DOOM that I used in the game. In fact, the music that I have playing in the background, while playing the game, using Windows Media Player, is all DOOM 1 tracks (YouTube converted to MP3). I actually made most of these maps to the music. For me, usually the music determines the map.

This post has been edited by rkilyan: 22 February 2019 - 08:15 PM

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User is offline   Zaxtor 

  • 1,760

#18

Nice.

uses skyboxes right?

if yes, they have animations?

Trequonia TC's Status:
Levels : 100% done - Textures : 100% done - Sounds : 100% done - Musics :100% done
Mod is finished, going to test it.
Trequonia's Official website
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User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 12

#19

I think the success of Mapster32 mainly goes to the controls are very similar to BUILD, but the additional tools are practical, even though they are more mouse based like a Windows program. That's why I would like there to be an equivalence of EDITART inside BAFed or Pixel Manipulation Tools (PMTs) very similar to it, so users coming out of EDITART can easily transition into a Windows program that does not require hours and hours of learning something new to do the same thing.

Major interface changes, made it difficult for some people to learn Vista and Windows 8. Keep what works, donít change everything. Look at EDuke32 and Mapster32. If a said to be, ďfar superiorĒ Mapster came out, and was a tabs, menus, and toolbars based interface with nothing in common with Mapster32, people might become frustrated and lose interest with it. When EDITART no longer works, then all of those EDITART people will need to learn another program, and some people may become frustrated and lose interest. When there is an up-grade, the interface is just as important as the programís performance and application.

EDuke32 has a ďclassic rendererĒ for a reason. DUKE3D, BUILD, and EDITART are incompatible with Windows, but they were kept alive with a DOSBox. The DOSBox Team refused to let incompatible translate to obsolete. That was, until EDuke32 and Mapster32 replaced DUKE3D (DOS) and BUILD. Some people like the classic look of Duke, others donít; different looks, but it is still an up-grade. Not everyone likes the same thing.

Whether or not Duke is wearing his sunglasses, he only sees 256 colors. Whether someone uses Artweaver, Photoshop, or just EDITART, it is still only a 256 palette that we see in Mapster and the game. These other programs are more than capable of making something in the 256 palette. Which is why they are overkill; they are designed to go far beyond 256 colors. Maybe there could be a smaller step from EDITART.

Why canít there be a program that is just like BAFed, except it has 3 modes? The first mode would be BAFed as it is. The second would be Pixel Manipulation Tools (PMTs) similar to EDITARTís. Then the third would be like OASIZís fpot. We are only about 4,400 members. How many Duke Fans are outside of this site? How many of them still use EDITART? BAFed combined with Pixel Manipulation Tools (PMTs) and fpot would be a benefit.

Hereís another idea: how about a guide made from people who use other art programs? A quick way to set stuff up for making art for a 256 palette. Some people may not have much free time on their hands to play around with another program.

Something I want to mention: Iíve tested the new DOSBox 0.74Ė2 on a Windows 10 OS, and EDITART still responds slow when switching from the array (tile selection mode) to the individual tile (tile editing mode). This has me concerned, and I would deeply appreciate it, if there was some thought towards one of the below ideas.

Maybe there could be a smaller step from EDITART Ė Some simple program from scratch for a start.

Why canít there be a program that is just like BAFed, except it has 3 modes Ė BAFed, PMTs, and fpot combined.

How about a guide made from people who use other art programs? A quick way to set stuff up for making art for a 256 palette Ė Something in this Discussion or a new Topic.
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User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 12

#20

Sorry, I didn't have enough of the Plasma Venting Station (D1_E1L6) and the Bio-Catacombs (D1_E4L10).

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: D1_E1L6 Plasma Venting Background 2.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E1L6 Plasma Venting Background 3.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E1L6 Plasma Venting Background 4.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E1L6 Plasma Venting Background 5.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E1L6 Plasma Venting Background 6.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E1L6 Plasma Venting Background 7.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E1L6 Plasma Venting Background 8.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E1L6 Plasma Venting Background 9.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E1L6 Plasma Venting Background A.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E1L6 Plasma Venting Background B.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E1L6 Plasma Venting Background C.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E4L10 Bio-Catacombs Upstairs 2.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E4L10 Bio-Catacombs Upstairs 3.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E4L10 Bio-Catacombs Sewer-Bio drainage 2.png
  • Attached Image: D1_E4L10 Bio-Catacombs Sewer-Bio drainage 3.png

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User is online   conoklast 

  • 29

#21

View Postrkilyan, on 23 February 2019 - 12:20 AM, said:


How about a guide made from people who use other art programs? A quick way to set stuff up for making art for a 256 palette Ė Something in this Discussion or a new Topic.


This guy covered the basics of creating duke-friendly art in GIMP (which is my 2d program of choice)

https://steamcommuni...s/?id=165800019
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User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 12

#22

View Postconoklast, on 23 February 2019 - 01:02 AM, said:

This guy covered the basics of creating duke-friendly art in GIMP (which is my 2d program of choice)

https://steamcommuni...s/?id=165800019


I went to the link and this did help. I created a few stock tiles for temples, figured out the Palettes and some of the tools. I made most of this image in GIMP using the tutorial, but I could not figure out the selection tool and move tool, so I just moved the screen in the lower right with EDITART. I'm sure there is a way to use GIMP just as effectively as EDITART. I also learned the keys for the tools in GIMP that I used.

Attached Image: num1.png

This is a good start to what I was looking for.

If people are going to move out of EDITART, then these other programs should have the same tools and more.

So, here is something to help out with one of the solutions I'm asking for. Now you can see what specific functions I am looking at and how to do some of this in GIMP or any other program. I do like GIMP's ability to use the shift key to draw straight lines with the pencil tool.

Attached Image: EDITART KEYS.png
Most of the information in this image is based on The Official Duke Nukem 3D Level Design Handbook, by Matt Tagliaferri. Copyright 1996 SYBEX Inc.

This post has been edited by rkilyan: 23 February 2019 - 06:02 PM

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User is offline   Zaxtor 

  • 1,760

#23

I still use editart

Also use dukeres combination with editart

Certain texture dimension let say 159 68 would crash upon upload on Dukeres
and stuff with transparency (pink)
I use editart to solve it.

Also Editart let you make a texture 1024 width 256 high (You need to add another segment to be 1024 x 512 since editart don't let you import over 256 high
Dukeres cannot let you do something over 512

but can still read textures over it without crashing.

Trequonia TC's Status:
Levels : 100% done - Textures : 100% done - Sounds : 100% done - Musics :100% done
Mod is finished, going to test it.
Trequonia's Official website

This post has been edited by Zaxtor: 23 February 2019 - 06:00 PM

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User is offline   rkilyan 

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#24

View PostZaxtor, on 23 February 2019 - 05:59 PM, said:

I still use editart

Also use dukeres combination with editart



I was beginning to think that I was one of the few people left using EDITART. I'm glad to see that Jimmy 100MPH and I are not the only ones who use it. Personally I think using it with either BAFed or DukeRes is the best. Unfortunately, as I stated before, EDITART is sluggish with Windows 10, even with the DOSBox 0.74-2. That's why I'm hoping for some begins of a pixel manipulation program like EDITART, except Windows based. It doesn't really matter if it is built into BAFed or DukeRes, or just a stand alone program.

There is another advantage with EDITART: it has everything you need in the array. Once a tile is in there, you can move it around the array and use it as a template or take other parts along by coping and pasting them where you want. Instead of Exporting a tile somewhere to serve as a template, opening another art program to play with it, Export from there into somewhere else, and put it into Duke with BAFed or DukeRes. EDITART takes away the hassle of overhead with templates; you can just simply move what ever you need and use it wherever right there. That's why, preferably, it would be nice to have Pixel Manipulation Tools (PMT) inside BAFed or DukeRes; you can move around the array AND edit the art too.

This post has been edited by rkilyan: 23 February 2019 - 06:40 PM

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User is offline   Zaxtor 

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#25

I use dosbox for Editart
No probs

My folder has some spaces in the name is why I do example

Mount c "c:\$ Oblivion HRP $"

the " makes the spaces in the name recognizable.


Dukeres is faster when you upload stuff etc.

You can go farther in tileart when Editart is limited to 6000 or so.

when I need editart cus like I explained before certain shape on a higher tile art.
I backup an oldtile art.
Save as example TILES041.art to TILES021 and fix it on Editart then after Resave to 41
Delete the 21 and then restore the backup old 21

PS
probably newer editart can let you go over texture no 6143

Trequonia TC's Status:
Levels : 100% done - Textures : 100% done - Sounds : 100% done - Musics :100% done
Mod is finished, going to test it.
Trequonia's Official website

This post has been edited by Zaxtor: 23 February 2019 - 07:50 PM

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User is online   conoklast 

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#26

View Postrkilyan, on 23 February 2019 - 05:54 PM, said:


So, here is something to help out with one of the solutions I'm asking for. Now you can see what specific functions I am looking at and how to do some of this in GIMP or any other program. I do like GIMP's ability to use the shift key to draw straight lines with the pencil tool.

Attachment EDITART KEYS.png
Most of the information in this image is based on The Official Duke Nukem 3D Level Design Handbook, by Matt Tagliaferri. Copyright 1996 SYBEX Inc.


Do you have this in text/word/rtf format? If you do I'm prepared to add a third column to the table and provide the gimp alternatives.

As far as workflows go GIMP will always be extra work compared to a duke-centric program like editart. You're always going to have to convert the images to indexed, then export to use in BAfed or Dukeres. The point of using something like GIMP is that it can potentially do a lot more (I'm assuming that editart doesn't use layers right? - and layers are basically the key feature of suites such as photoshop and gimp).
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User is offline   rkilyan 

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#27

View Postconoklast, on 23 February 2019 - 07:01 PM, said:

Do you have this in text/word/rtf format? If you do I'm prepared to add a third column to the table and provide the gimp alternatives.

As far as workflows go GIMP will always be extra work compared to a duke-centric program like editart. You're always going to have to convert the images to indexed, then export to use in BAfed or Dukeres. The point of using something like GIMP is that it can potentially do a lot more (I'm assuming that editart doesn't use layers right? - and layers are basically the key feature of suites such as photoshop and gimp).


Yes the image does come from a MS Word Document, but when I tried to upload it as an attachment it gave me an error, so I used a picture instead.
Here is a picture.
Attached Image: EDITART GIMP.png

Email me at rkilyan@ptd.net

Give me yours, so I can email you the Word Document. I'm not permitted to Attach a Word Document, I keep getting an error.
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User is offline   rkilyan 

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#28

Here is a link for a sort of updated EDITART from Jimmy 100MPH.

Thanks again Jim

View PostJimmy 100MPH, on 18 June 2018 - 05:22 PM, said:

If you'd like to continue using EDITART I'd suggest using my packaging of the latest version of it. It's more stable in most ways.

DOS / DOSBox Emulation Wrapper


Here is the extra stuff EDITART either needs or may need.

Attached File  EDITART more stuff.zip (234.09K)
Number of downloads: 45
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User is online   conoklast 

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#29

I've done up the GIMP equivalences to the table that Rkilyan provided. I've already sent it to him via PM but in case anyone else wants to leave the dark ages and use a more modern 2d suite :P I've provided it here

Attached File(s)


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User is offline   rkilyan 

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#30

View Postconoklast, on 24 February 2019 - 05:50 PM, said:

I've done up the GIMP equivalences to the table that Rkilyan provided. I've already sent it to him via PM but in case anyone else wants to leave the dark ages and use a more modern 2d suite :P I've provided it here


We are working on an updated version of the above attachment.

The 'dark ages', yeah, really. EDITART can be a BAD kind of old. Here is why I think some people may have grudges against it. The very powerful Delete key, in Tile Selection Mode, and the Automatic Tile Position Updater.

Deleting in the Tile Editing Mode is just setting the tile to 0 x 0; just a blank spot. Unfortunately, hitting the delete key when you are in Tile Selection Mode (array) is also a Swap operation. Sometimes when you swap, it results in tile corruption. So, when you hit the Delete key accidently in Tile Selection Mode (array), you actually Swap the rest of the tiles in the array; they are all moved over one to the left. Usually the next .ART file has the first few tiles corrupted as well. There is no undoing this. Oh, no, but don't worry, it gets MUCH worse.

In a panic, you do what's natural: EXIT. So now you have a 'Y' or 'N' prompt that basically says your tiles are moved and if you want to update the maps; this is the very powerful Automatic Tile Position Updater (I'm not sure what the official name is, but I think that name covers it). Not thinking from the shock, you hit Y. As my 11th and 12th grade Latin teacher would say,

"Y, for yes is...

ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRNNNNT!!!!!!

Sorry Charlie. It's the facts Jack."

Now you have two damaged .ART files, moved tiles, and all of that is applied to your maps. Every time one of those tiles was used in a map, it is now shifted; you didn't want ANY thing moved in EDITART. Now it is not only just a matter of .ART files being messed-up, but now your maps are ruined too. Hopefully you have backups of BOTH. Those who make backups of everything, either hourly or daily, like I do, can just Copy, Paste, and Overwrite - as Pinhead would say in Hellraiser: Hellseeker, "all problems, solved."

Trust me, I've done all of the above, including having to use my backups. It was never a big deal to me. Some people may not have been prepared for the worst and carried a grudge against EDITART. In some ways it has nothing to do with EDITART. It's just being prepared, by making backups, and simple human error. I can understand that it is natural to blame EDITART instead of yourself, but it's just a set of instructions for the computer to follow. It is also arguable that, maybe EDITART should have a few more prompts and safeties to prevent these kinds of disasters. Perhaps this could have made people's experiences better.

From personal experience, I really do think all of this has contributed to EDITART having a bad reputation. It is a very unyielding program. I remember my first impressions of this told me to keep backups and to have some sort of backup schedule. Sometimes DOS programs are notorious for not having an undo feature or prompts. I think I can call these recollections of negative experiences concerning EDITART, which results in an impulsive aversion to it, Post Traumatic Editart Syndrome or PTES, or even PTEdit Syndrome. Remember, it is just a program - a set of instructions.

For those who use EDITART, like I and some others do, I would recommend Dropbox or Google Drive, and an external hard drive, at least. Then of course, NO DELETE in Tile Selection Mode (array) or SWAPPING! I would strongly recommend that you use BAFed or DukeRes for those types of operations; those two programs are also better for importing and centering a tile.

This post has been edited by rkilyan: 09 March 2019 - 12:43 PM

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