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AN UPDATED EDITART  "AN UPDATED EDITART"

User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 2

#1

I started a topic on the DUKE MEGATON forum on STEAM about an updated EDITART (topic name: An updated EDITART and more backwards compatibility for old DOS .ART files). >M@tEo$< recommended that I start a new topic on here about this.

-L7- themaniacboy replied with a comment recommending me to use EDuke32. This solved almost all of my problems (listed on the first post under the STEAM topic). The only problem left was my 511 X 400 tiles for skies/floors were cut in half. Did some experimenting and found out that it was just the renderer (as stated on post dated June 9, 2018 @ 4:59:48 pm EDT).

The only problem left is there is no WINDOWS version of EDITART like there is of BUILD (Mapster32). EDITART still works on 7, 8, 8.1, and 10, but it would be nice if there was a program to import, create, manipulate, and animate all in one. I donít have a major problem using the DOSBox to use EDITART; I work in a DOS folder anyway. Yet it would still be convenient, and preferable for others who like the EDITART and classic look, to just double click and do whatever.

I have over 1,600 tiles and three dozen 511 X 400s that I have created over a period of 10 years. I am a heavy EDITART user and abuser, and would appreciate if someone would look into this.

Iím not a programmer; all I want to do is just copy and paste my maps, .ART files, and .CON files into the EDuke32 directory. Iím just a copy and paste guy. I just change simple things in the USER.CON file. Iím saying this in case someone thinks Iím proficient with programming; itís just maps, art, and simple changes in .CON files.

I do like EDuke32 much better than the MEGATON EDITION.
What I like about EDuke32:
Classic rendering
Classic look, but with the ability to use the mouse in menus
Mapster32
In game controller configuration
Understands .ART files (just copy and paste)
Understands .CON files
Can add more sounds simply by using the DEF.CON and USER.CON files
256 Voices

If a new EDITART is made, then I will move on to EDuke32 instead of using a DOSBox for everything. Personally, I want there to always be a DOSBox and the CLASSIC DOS version; I have used the DOSBox from XP to 10 and it works fine, but EDITART and BUILD are a little slow between switching screens/modes on 8, 8.1, and 10. The CLASSIC folder is one of the few things I like about the MEGATON EDITION, with one exception: the EDITART did not go past FRAMEEFECT, so I just copied and pasted the V1.4 EDITART from the PLUTONIUM EDITION, and have been using it ever since.

There is a reason why after multiple viruses and a video card failure, I have been able to continue without any setbacks. People like me believe in multiple backups and a secondary way to execute or open something. Having a backup plan is very important to me, which is why I canít completely leave the DOSBox and DOS version behind Ė it has proven itself.

Theoretically all of the parts are here, except EDITART32.
My vision of the next step would have a version that includes:
For DOSBox use
DOSBox
DUKE3D
BUILD
EDITART

For Windows use
EDuke32
Mapster32
EDITART32 (working title)
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User is offline   Perro Seco 

  • 170

#2

View Postrkilyan, on 09 June 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:

The only problem left is there is no WINDOWS version of EDITART like there is of BUILD (Mapster32). EDITART still works on 7, 8, 8.1, and 10, but it would be nice if there was a program to import, create, manipulate, and animate all in one.
I've never been able to understand Editart. However, there are better and more intuitive programs (in my opinion), like BAFed, DukeRes or BastArt. They all work in Windows.

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User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 2

#3

View PostPerro Seco, on 09 June 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

I've never been able to understand Editart. However, there are better and more intuitive programs (in my opinion), like BAFed, DukeRes or BastArt. They all work in Windows.


Thank you for your response Perro Seco.

You said youíve never been able to understand EDITART. EDITART allows someone to create a tile, import a picture and edit it, and edit existing tiles. There are also animation, offset, and tile editing tools built into it. EDITART can do far more than what these programs have shown me.

Iíve been using EDITART for 10 years, made over 1,600 tiles, and have been working on 4 episodes (44 maps). The vast majority of those tiles have been created in EDITART from scratch; very few of them started from an imported picture. As a heavy EDITART user, I can say that it is useful and convenient, but annoying and dangerous at times; I have learned how to handle it, and it can be a very powerful tool.

I appreciate the potential solutions, but have not found what I want. However, I did download and try to use these. Some parts of them are easy to understand and intuitive, but not really what I wanted. It was worth the investigation: BAFed could be the most useful, if there are no other programs or developments.

BAFed: It isnít really what I was looking for, but may be useful. It is good that I can import pictures (256 Bitmaps) and create new .ART files (TILE024.ART), but the pallets in the game look funny. The way BAFed prompts the user is practical, when starting a new .ART file. Unfortunately I canít edit anything as much as I could in EDITART.

DukeRes: I donít see how DukeRes is useful. I did notice that I can expand beyond TILES023.ART and did view a test dummy TILES024.ART in Mapster32 (TILES023.ART renamed to TILES024.ART after I clicked and dragged TILES023.ART into the DukeRes window). Unfortunately I donít see how I can create tiles from scratch, import, or import and edit MSPaint or Artweaver 256 Bitmap images.

BastART: Got an error message: Component ĎCOMDLG32.OCXí or one of its dependencies not correctly registered: a file is missing or invalid.

If anyone is thinking of creating an EDITART32 (working title), you can always talk to me on what an EDITART user might be expecting.
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User is offline   oasiz 

  • 675

#4

You can use tilefromtexture to import png files into tiles.
I recently released a rudimentary offset/animation tool for png files My link

Editart is a nice suite though, however its limitations do make it quite obsolete
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User is offline   Perro Seco 

  • 170

#5

View Postrkilyan, on 12 June 2018 - 07:44 PM, said:

EDITART allows someone to create a tile, import a picture and edit it, and edit existing tiles. There are also animation, offset, and tile editing tools built into it.
I know what Editart does, but what I meant is that I've never bothered to learn how to use it because its lack of intuitivity (does this word exists? :D).

So I use DukeRes the most, and everything you named can be done with it, except editing the picture's pixels. For that I use Paint Shop Pro, which has more tools to create and edit textures easily. Other people use Photoshop, but for me that's another hard to understand program.

I'm almost sure that Editart32 will never happen. I found some people still using it, but they switched to those other programs when I told them about it.

By the way...

View Postrkilyan, on 12 June 2018 - 07:44 PM, said:

have been working on 4 episodes (44 maps)
Are all those maps available to the public? Four episodes sounds interesting, I would like to know more about it.

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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador
  • 5,283

  #6

EDITART is not likely to ever be ported to anything but DOS. It's full of enough nasty DOS code that any such effort would be closer to rewriting than porting, and the utility isn't part of our workflow on IM at all.

EDuke32 ē wiki ē svn builds ē bugs
Join us in #eduke32 on irc.freenode.net!
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User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 2

#7

INTUITIVITY
Intuitivity does not exist. To make it exist: right click, a menu will open up, and then left click on, Add to Dictionary. Congratulations, you have created a new word on our computers and added one to our vocabularies.

***[Initial word declaration tag: 06/13/2018, 10:19 AM, by Perro Seco]***

Yes, EDITART is not an intuitive program. I had to look in the Duke Level Design Handbook for just starting EDITART, and the key assignments. I have learned them well enough to be fast with making tiles.

DUKERES
I did find out how to insert my .ART files into the DUKE3D.GRP and tested it. It did work. That is so much better than having a bunch of .ART files floating around the directory. However, the altered .GRP makes the EDUKE32 launcher only display the Nuclear Winter one and gives an error when STARTED; this never happened when I just copied and pasted the .ART files into the EXPERIMENTAL EDUKE32 Folder. To fix that problem, I renamed the Duke 3D Folder that Steam uses. I just put the word OFF in front of it and changed it back when I restored the original .GRP file in the EXPERIMENTAL EDUKE32 FOLDER, after the experiment. I have the modified DUKE3D.GRP in the MEGATON GAMEROOT Folder and that works fine.

I think I will be switching to DukeRes one day, Perro Seco, but I have some questions:

Q1: Where is tilefromtexture? I cannot find it anywhere. That would make it so much easier, rather than use BAFed for pictures to tiles, and DukeRes for tiles to .ART files. If someone can import pictures into DukeRes, then I cannot find how.
Q2: How do I import a picture (ex: MSPaint, Paint Shop Pro, Artweaver) into DukeRes?
Q3: What are the proper imported image formats (ex: png, bmp) and size (ex: 320 x 200)?
Q4: How do I import a picture into an empty slot in an .ART file that already exists?
Q5: How do I open an ART file, if I want to edit the pixels of only one or a few individual tiles?
Q6: How do I load a pallet into another program (ex: MSPaint, Paint Shop Pro, Artweaver) so the tiles do not look oddly colored in the game?
Q7: Is there a manual on how to use DukeRes? The help button did not work. Then I tried the Dukeres.hlp and it said, “The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows. However, you can download a program that will allow you to view Help created in the Windows Help format.”
After the update from a Microsoft site, the message then said, “Cannot display this help file. Try opening the help file again, and if you still get this message, copy the help file to a different drive, and try again.”
I reinstalled it, and the help file still did not work.
It would be nice if there was a manual or instructions.

What would be the problem if DukeRes had a modification with basic pixel manipulation like in EDITART? The idea of what EDITART does is practice, but the program, which from the sound of it, seems to be loaded with ancient DOS quirks. What exactly are those quirks? No one has ever explained that, but I do not need to know. Thanks, TerminX for brining that up. That’s why it would be nice to start out with a program like DukeRes and build on top of it. EDITART is unyielding, dangerous, and arguably obsolete, even though it is an all-in-one program from pictures to tiles in the .ART array.

Some people would ask, if you need multiple programs to do the job of an obsolete one, then what is the advantage, and how is the other one obsolete?

I find it disturbing how the same people who urged me to upgrade from XP to Vista, windows 7 to 8, and windows 7 to 10 were the first ones to complain about how it wasn’t the best. “Hey, my games don’t work”, “hey my internal internet card doesn’t work anymore”, “my pictures are fuzzy”, “my DVD drive doesn’t work”, “my Digital Dolby Equalizer thing doesn’t work”, In my experience, sometimes the latest and greatest isn’t so great.

Perhaps it is time to think about merging some of these programs’ functions together.

Hey, do you think the best programing language (qb64) could be used to make a more user friendly equivalence of EDITART? It could combine DukeRes, BAFed, that animation program from oasiz, and some MSPaint mixed with EDITART-like pixel manipulation tools. I do like the interfaces, ease of navigating through them, and use of the mouse (keesteesee: now there's a word).

-Thanks for the Help so far

This post has been edited by rkilyan: 17 June 2018 - 12:34 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 4k 

  • Duke4 Thot Patrol
  • 4,056

#8

If you'd like to continue using EDITART I'd suggest using my packaging of the latest version of it. It's more stable in most ways.

DOS / DOSBox Emulation Wrapper

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User is offline   rkilyan 

  • 2

#9

View PostJimmy, on 18 June 2018 - 05:22 PM, said:

If you'd like to continue using EDITART I'd suggest using my packaging of the latest version of it. It's more stable in most ways.

DOS / DOSBox Emulation Wrapper


Thanks, Jimmy

Aside from all the other issues, most of them resolved, 15,360 tiles (60 files. Art) is way better than the ORIGINAL EDITART. I tested it out with the DOS version: it can only handle 24 .ART FILES (000 to 023). I then tested it with EDuke32: works perfectly in Mapster32 and EDuke32. I appreciate this.

-rkilyan

This post has been edited by rkilyan: 19 June 2018 - 09:14 PM

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