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Ancient Rome map WIP

User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#31

In parts of the wide open area the frame rate is already dropping to 20FPS on a decent computer. I'm afraid that if I change 70 or 80 tree, bush and torch 2D sprites to 3D models it might slow things down even more. And that is without adding any enemies yet which I'm guessing will bog things down even more. I guess I could try and see what happens.
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User is offline   zykov eddy 

#32

Looks freakin' great!
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User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#33

I made a copy of the map and added 200 of the palm tree model and noticed no difference in frame rate. So I guess I will start looking for or make some tree and bushes models to replace the existing sprites. Does anyone know a link to some free ones?

This post has been edited by Marked: 07 July 2010 - 12:55 PM

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User is offline   Sobek 

  • There's coffee in that nebula!

#34

Do you have any examples of exactly what you're after? I tend to generate my own tree meshes and texture them accordingly, but they scale really well... They can be ultra-low detail or fairly realistic looking, either way. You can just hit up Google though and search for things like "Free tree meshes" or somesuch, to get some hits.

Also, just to note that I have found a few situations where I've replaced upwards of 50 sprites or so with models and found the framerate to either not change or improve dramatically. Go figure :lol:
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User is offline   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#35

View PostSobek, on Jul 7 2010, 09:02 PM, said:

Also, just to note that I have found a few situations where I've replaced upwards of 50 sprites or so with models and found the framerate to either not change or improve dramatically. Go figure :lol:


In Polymost, frame rate is better with sprites, but in Polymer it is as you describe.
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User is offline   Sobek 

  • There's coffee in that nebula!

#36

View PostDeeperThought, on Jul 8 2010, 03:42 PM, said:

In Polymost, frame rate is better with sprites, but in Polymer it is as you describe.


That's interesting to know. Is there a technical explanation for why that is? I'm assuming some intentional overhaul on the render backend (or something else I don't understand yet).

This post has been edited by Sobek: 07 July 2010 - 09:47 PM

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User is offline   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#37

I was just repeating what TX told me once: that in Polymer, there is little to no advantage for framerate of using sprites over models. Maybe everything gets converted to something model-like for rendering? I don't know.
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User is offline   Plagman 

  • Former VP of Media Operations

#38

Polymer should be way more efficient than Polymost at drawing models because all the model geometry can reside in video memory. This is made possible by leveraging the programmable vertex processing unit of modern GPUs to perform the animation interpolation. In Polymost this interpolation had to be performed on the CPU and then all the geometry data sent across the bus each frame, whereas now the load is entirely shifted off the CPU and PCI bus.
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User is offline   Sobek 

  • There's coffee in that nebula!

#39

View PostPlagman, on Jul 9 2010, 12:46 PM, said:

Polymer should be way more efficient than Polymost at drawing models because all the model geometry can reside in video memory. This is made possible by leveraging the programmable vertex processing unit of modern GPUs to perform the animation interpolation. In Polymost this interpolation had to be performed on the CPU and then all the geometry data sent across the bus each frame, whereas now the load is entirely shifted off the CPU and PCI bus.


And therefore hence the need for Shader Model 3.0? Nice.

Well there you go Marked - might be a good idea to swap any abundant sprites over to models, if you can do it in an aesthetically pleasing manner.
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User is offline   Plagman 

  • Former VP of Media Operations

#40

Just for vertex shaders; Polymer doesn't currently require any SM3 _features_ (it will in the future since post-processing will require MRT) but the GPU programs are complex enough that most non-SM3 compilers choke on them currently.
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#41

View PostMarked, on Jul 7 2010, 01:54 PM, said:

So I guess I will start looking for or make some tree and bushes models to replace the existing sprites. Does anyone know a link to some free ones?


You can find some free ones in MD3-format on this page:
http://www.wemakemap...mapmodels17.htm
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User is offline   Stabs 

#42

YOU BLOODY CHAMPION BROILER!!!

I was looking for a gaspump :)
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#43

View PostDanM, on Jul 12 2010, 11:32 PM, said:

YOU BLOODY CHAMPION BROILER!!!

I was looking for a gaspump :)


No problem mate :)
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User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#44

View PostDeeperThought, on Jul 6 2010, 11:57 PM, said:

I really like the atmosphere in those indoor shots; they use Polymer well. Regarding the outdoor areas: I hope you make up your mind whether you are using sprites or models, hi-res or low-res. Imo it doesn't look good to have 8-bit stuff mixed in with hi-res and models.


It still needs some texture tweaking but here is the model replacement I made for the 2D torch sprites. Since I am new to modeling I don't know how to animate this one. So what I ended up doing was create a very small sector hidden in the middle of the model. I raised it up to a height just slightly lower than the top of the model. I then placed the animated HRP flame on top of the raised sector. This was needed because without the raised sector the flame would drop to the floor because of the way it is coded in the game. A nifty cheat. :)

EDIT: Just made another model replacement for a 2D sprite ( 3rd pic ) The white structure in case you couldn't tell.

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: torch1.jpg
  • Attached Image: torch4.jpg
  • Attached Image: pillargate.jpg


This post has been edited by Marked: 14 July 2010 - 03:46 PM

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User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#45

I guess my little trick for getting the animated flame on the model has a flaw. The model has a tendency to flicker in and out a lot in the game. Unless the player is looking above straight ahead. Then the model stays on screen. I tested it out side by side with the same model but no "hidden sector" inside of it. That one was fine.

I'm not a programmer so I have no way to make the flame stay at it's starting height and not drop down which would let me get rid of the sector inside the model.

Its very hard to make a decent looking animated 3d flame. I wouldn't know where to begin.

And pasting on the old 2D flame would look lame.

So for now I'm out of ideas.

This post has been edited by Marked: 14 July 2010 - 04:27 PM

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User is offline   chicken 

  • Fashionable Modeler

#46

What if you place a small blocking groundaligned sprite within the upper part of the model?
Do the flames stay on that?
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User is offline   Inspector Lagomorf 

  • Glory To Motherland!

#47

Call me an old fogey, but I actually prefer the 2D sprite flames to the actual 3D models.
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User is offline   Stabs 

#48

well you are using custom art so having a con file on the side would not hurt

Your going to need someone to write some simple code, probably if flame is lotag 1 make not drop or not be actor, iam not sure
its fairly simple code, perhaps someone will be kind enuff to write it for you
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#49

View PostMarked, on Jul 14 2010, 02:31 PM, said:

It still needs some texture tweaking but here is the model replacement I made for the 2D torch sprites. Since I am new to modeling I don't know how to animate this one. So what I ended up doing was create a very small sector hidden in the middle of the model. I raised it up to a height just slightly lower than the top of the model. I then placed the animated HRP flame on top of the raised sector. This was needed because without the raised sector the flame would drop to the floor because of the way it is coded in the game. A nifty cheat. :)

EDIT: Just made another model replacement for a 2D sprite ( 3rd pic ) The white structure in case you couldn't tell.

Boring

This post has been edited by blackharted: 15 July 2010 - 06:51 AM

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User is offline   CruX 

#50

View PostMarked, on Jul 14 2010, 03:31 PM, said:

It still needs some texture tweaking but here is the model replacement I made for the 2D torch sprites. Since I am new to modeling I don't know how to animate this one. So what I ended up doing was create a very small sector hidden in the middle of the model. I raised it up to a height just slightly lower than the top of the model. I then placed the animated HRP flame on top of the raised sector. This was needed because without the raised sector the flame would drop to the floor because of the way it is coded in the game. A nifty cheat. :)

EDIT: Just made another model replacement for a 2D sprite ( 3rd pic ) The white structure in case you couldn't tell.


Looks nice! I hope this'd be for WGR2 or something, though. Even though I know vanilla Duke can cover a variety of map themes, the vanilla Duke enemies would look SO out of place in a map like this.
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User is offline   The Commander 

  • I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...

#51

View Postblackharted, on Jul 16 2010, 02:50 AM, said:

Boring

Would you stop spamming in the DN3D section and stick to spamming in your general section ffs, I have already had to remove several of your useless unneeded posts.
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User is offline   Sangman 

#52

Marked that actually looks pretty cool. Basic, but nice! :)


commander how are you removing posts

This post has been edited by Sangman: 15 July 2010 - 09:41 AM

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User is offline   The Commander 

  • I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...

#53

View PostSangman, on Jul 16 2010, 05:38 AM, said:

commander how are you removing posts

How do you think I would remove a post?
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User is offline   Sangman 

#54

View PostThe Commander, on Jul 15 2010, 06:15 PM, said:

Would you stop spamming in the DN3D section and stick to spamming in your general section ffs, I have already had to remove several of your useless unneeded posts.



i mean afaik you're not a mod or anything but i could be rong

This post has been edited by Sangman: 15 July 2010 - 09:51 AM

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User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#55

View PostEmericaSkater, on Jul 15 2010, 10:13 AM, said:

Looks nice! I hope this'd be for WGR2 or something, though. Even though I know vanilla Duke can cover a variety of map themes, the vanilla Duke enemies would look SO out of place in a map like this.


Right now my noob modeling skills are not good enough to create and code in new characters. I'll have to settle for trying a few creative changes to the skins of existing enemies. I'm hoping to get at least some Roman soldier looking uniforms on some of them. Who knows, by the time this is released maybe my skills will increase or someone will PM me saying they are desperate to try out their new models in my mod :)

Thanks everyone for your comments so far. Even Blackhearted. :)

This post has been edited by Marked: 15 July 2010 - 03:39 PM

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User is offline   Sangman 

#56

View PostPlagman, on Jul 9 2010, 04:16 AM, said:

Polymer should be way more efficient than Polymost at drawing models because all the model geometry can reside in video memory. This is made possible by leveraging the programmable vertex processing unit of modern GPUs to perform the animation interpolation. In Polymost this interpolation had to be performed on the CPU and then all the geometry data sent across the bus each frame, whereas now the load is entirely shifted off the CPU and PCI bus.


this made no sense to me at all


just felt like saying that

:)

This post has been edited by Sangman: 16 July 2010 - 09:21 AM

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User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#57

View PostDeeperThought, on Jul 6 2010, 11:57 PM, said:

I really like the atmosphere in those indoor shots; they use Polymer well. Regarding the outdoor areas: I hope you make up your mind whether you are using sprites or models, hi-res or low-res. Imo it doesn't look good to have 8-bit stuff mixed in with hi-res and models.


A few more 8 bit sprites replaced by higher res models. There will be more as time goes by. I still have not found good looking low poly trees so those sprites will have to do for now. And a few lo-res wall and floor textures will eventually get replaced or re-made.

EDIT: Added one more fence model. Courtesy of my old buddy "Chicken"

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: duke0001.jpg
  • Attached Image: duke0007.jpg
  • Attached Image: duke0008.jpg
  • Attached Image: duke0002.jpg


This post has been edited by Marked: 01 August 2010 - 01:16 PM

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User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#58

Just a monthly update. I added a couple more tree models to replace the 2D sprites. Added a neat looking column and some more Polymer lights. Still no enemies or puzzles yet. I'm just enjoying the landscape creation and trying out new models as I make them. Who knows? Maybe thats all this will ever be :lol:

A few more random screen pics.

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: duke0000.jpg
  • Attached Image: duke0001.jpg
  • Attached Image: duke0006.jpg
  • Attached Image: duke0014.jpg

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User is offline   RazorZ 

#59

View PostMarked, on Sep 6 2010, 06:07 AM, said:

Just a monthly update. I added a couple more tree models to replace the 2D sprites. Added a neat looking column and some more Polymer lights. Still no enemies or puzzles yet. I'm just enjoying the landscape creation and trying out new models as I make them. Who knows? Maybe thats all this will ever be :lol:

A few more random screen pics.


Lighting really spices up the mood of Ancient Rome. Those models and lighting really do save a lot and makes the level visually nice. Although I canīt play this (crappy PC), Iīm still looking forward to this. ^_^
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#60

Those shots are sweet! My favourite is the second to last one, because it kind of reminds me of indiana jones and the last crusade where he goes into that underground thing in the library to get instructions off a shield. I mean, I don't want to go in there it looks spooky :S well done
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