Duke Builder Unfinished Build
#1 Posted 29 June 2018 - 02:58 PM
#2 Posted 29 June 2018 - 04:53 PM
#4 Posted 29 June 2018 - 08:01 PM
Maisth, on 29 June 2018 - 02:58 PM, said:
So is it actually being developed, or is it where MXD had left it?
#5 Posted 29 June 2018 - 08:58 PM
Nice find though, had no idea people were working on an alternate editor. Really looked like they were striving for a more true 3D look and feel.
This post has been edited by Paul B: 29 June 2018 - 09:19 PM
#6 Posted 30 June 2018 - 12:10 AM
https://github.com/m-x-d/Duke-Builder
Also, some interesting trivia on this editor:
The author, MaxEd, was originally the developer of GZDoombuilder, when one day in early 2017, he got really pissed off at users making suggestions and demands he didn't want to implement.
His final post was this:
Quote
And here we are.
#7 Posted 30 June 2018 - 06:28 AM
Doom64hunter, on 30 June 2018 - 12:10 AM, said:
https://github.com/m-x-d/Duke-Builder
Also, some interesting trivia on this editor:
The author, MaxEd, was originally the developer of GZDoombuilder, when one day in early 2017, he got really pissed off at users making suggestions and demands he didn't want to implement.
His final post was this:
And here we are.
A friend of mine found the Build on the ZDoom discord server, not sure if the link its still there, but i will search it and post it here if i find it.
Edit: so i actually found the build, I'd recommend downloading it before MXD takes it down if it was leaked unintentionally https://app.box.com/...0byosy0z4ds44im
This post has been edited by Maisth: 30 June 2018 - 06:33 AM
#8 Posted 30 June 2018 - 10:52 AM
Maisth, on 30 June 2018 - 06:28 AM, said:
Edit: so i actually found the build, I'd recommend downloading it before MXD takes it down if it was leaked unintentionally https://app.box.com/...0byosy0z4ds44im
I gave it a quick spin. Very un-mapster, but it seems to work with EDuke32.exe, and it reads existing maps.
Who knows, what will happen with it. For now, it shows a lot of promises.
#9 Posted 30 June 2018 - 11:32 AM
Maisth, on 30 June 2018 - 06:28 AM, said:
Edit: so i actually found the build, I'd recommend downloading it before MXD takes it down if it was leaked unintentionally https://app.box.com/...0byosy0z4ds44im
It is the same build as the git repo, and it's licensed under the GPL, so feel free to fork it if someone else wants to continue developing the editor.
#10 Posted 30 June 2018 - 11:36 AM
MusicallyInspired, on 29 June 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:
Song is from Far Cry 5.
#11 Posted 01 July 2018 - 12:42 AM
EDIT: Doom64hunter's post already nailed it.
Well, looks like it's dead too(he now focused on Quake 2 mod now)...I'm not surprise at all...but Duke/Build really needs more editors for sure...but looks like it's still looks just something like "the curse of Duke" too...
This post has been edited by Player Lin: 01 July 2018 - 12:49 AM
#12 Posted 31 December 2018 - 02:57 AM
Maisth, on 29 June 2018 - 02:58 PM, said:
That guy was me. I cloned the Duke Builder repository and compiled it with VS2017 around March just to see if it could open maps, and surprisingly it worked. When MaxED and Duke Builder was mentioned on ZDoom Discord, I posted these screenshots and later put the build on Box.com and shared it.
Kizoky (who told Maisth about the editor) and Zero X. Diamond tested the build and found these bugs:
Zero X. Diamond said:
Kizoky said:
Other than that it's nice
Too bad it only supports Vanilla Duke3D
Kizoky said:
It says Invalid Angle 2048
so I guess it still checks for default Doom angles
It crashes if you save the map, and try to reload it
RIP map I guess
It also throws an exception for me when I edit Game Configuration (but doesn't crash).
Also, there are a few videos which show additional bugs:
(incorrect sprites at 5:07)
Another suggestion: the editor's DirectX renderer should be replaced with an OpenGL-based one so it could run on Linux under Mono (the renderer was inherited from Doom Builder 2, and this was suggested for GZDoom Builder-Bugfix as well).
MaxED archived the Duke Builder repository which means that he's not working on it anymore. I posted these bugs because I would be happy if someone could take over the project, fix these bugs and finish it up. I understand that Build.exe/Mapster32 is a more accurate editor but it's hard to learn and Duke Builder would be a good fit for newcomers.
That's about it. Happy New Year, everyone!
#13 Posted 01 January 2019 - 04:49 PM
WolfmanFP, on 31 December 2018 - 02:57 AM, said:
No, if you want new features or a different editing experience then these should be implemented into Mapster32 instead of reinventing the wheel.
The Build Editor is WYSIWYG because it uses the Build Engine directly and that is its greatest strength. Anything else would be both a step down and an extreme amount of unnecessary work.
Case in point:
WolfmanFP, on 31 December 2018 - 02:57 AM, said:
EDIT: Negative Nancsi and co. can downvote me if you want, but I'm not wrong.
This post has been edited by Hendricks266: 02 January 2019 - 08:10 AM
#14 Posted 01 January 2019 - 05:01 PM
#15 Posted 04 January 2019 - 04:07 PM
#16 Posted 05 January 2019 - 05:40 AM
My main guess is that since Doombuilder is an already "easy" to learn editor, people prefer to stick with what they know, that and also because Doom has become more mainstream nowdays. (Not that it wasn't in the past, but thanks to newer Doom games, people usually like to revisit the old ones)
#17 Posted 05 January 2019 - 05:41 AM
Hendricks266, on 01 January 2019 - 04:49 PM, said:
Do you know why Doom ran away from Duke in the last 8-10 years in terms of new content and new modding tools?
It has competition. There are various sourceports and building tools with different strengths and different weaknesses. GZDoom is great for new ideas, modding, scripting, whatever. Zandronum is the best for multiplayer, PrBoom is great for vanilla experience and so on. There are also different building tools as well, I'm not familiar with most of them, but there is competion there too.
Duke has like what? EDuke32 as a source and Mapster32 for building, and nothing else. I don't want to flame here, what are the reasons of this, I already told you in PM years ago. Now, we might had a little glimpse of hope to have a new rival building tool (and maybe a different source port after that) with a different approach, that might actually attract a few more to this community (mostly GZDoom players), and you, Negative Hendricks already slays it with the typical argument that yours, and only yours is the true, and everything else should fuck off. Your attitude towards Blood GDX was quite similar.
As a big fan of EDuke32, and the team which worked on it, your arrogance clearly the biggest taint this community has to suffer.
This post has been edited by Nancsi: 05 January 2019 - 05:49 AM
#18 Posted 05 January 2019 - 06:05 AM
Once you understand how sectors work, it's really not that much harder than working with DB, but more time consuming? Yes.
#19 Posted 05 January 2019 - 08:46 AM
Nancsi, on 05 January 2019 - 05:41 AM, said:
It has competition. There are various sourceports and building tools with different strengths and different weaknesses. GZDoom is great for new ideas, modding, scripting, whatever. Zandronum is the best for multiplayer, PrBoom is great for vanilla experience and so on. There are also different building tools as well, I'm not familiar with most of them, but there is competion there too. [...]
Fragmentation is not a good thing, and it especially wouldn't be a good thing for a small community like Duke's.
#20 Posted 05 January 2019 - 09:02 AM
All other Duke ports (of which there are many) have failed over time because they don't offer any benefits over EDuke32. People seem to forget that at one time JFDuke3D was the dominant port, Rancid Meat was a compelling alternative especially for online play, Icculus had neat features.
EDuke32 rose to the top because nobody chose to continue development of alternatives. And almost all the alternatives/branches in the past couple years have been pet projects and upvote grabbers that despite whatever the developer might say were never intended to be finished and you can't convince me otherwise.
#21 Posted 05 January 2019 - 09:26 AM
necroslut, on 05 January 2019 - 08:46 AM, said:
Fragmentation is not a good thing, but in a healthy community, additional tools and ports don't mean that. In the Doom community, only Sgt. Mark and his questionable attitude led the Brutal Doom fans to depart Doomworld, but that happens once in a blue moon, also BD is like a tasteless variation of Doom, no wonder some people were pissed off. Having more tools for Duke normally wouldn't fragment the community, but maybe expand it with other people who are familiar with Doom Builder.
Technical parts might hinder the project of course, it's a different game with different engine, but why not let them the chance to do something for the sake of us.
Also, the fail or discontinuity of past projects are completely irrelevant. If someone can come up with something else that can work, at least give him a chance.
This post has been edited by Nancsi: 05 January 2019 - 09:29 AM
#22 Posted 05 January 2019 - 10:59 AM
I think with a stable and great modern looking renderer it might attract some of the more talented asset creators. A number of times throughout the years Teamonster has mentioned to me about guys he talks with on various high end modelling and graphics sites. Some have mentioned an interest in creating things but they felt Eduke32 and Polymer were not in good enough shape to use their stuff. Too much compromise and tweaking to it's limits. As good as many assets look in HRP and Polymer, those assets look better in other engines and required less tweaking.
This post has been edited by Mark: 05 January 2019 - 11:21 AM
#23 Posted 05 January 2019 - 11:28 AM
#24 Posted 05 January 2019 - 12:44 PM
Many have started over the years and give up when they realize that it ain't that simple, hell, that's why Ken just ended up making Polymost himself.
You either sacrifice a lot of compatibility and alienate existing users or try to create something that caters for both.
At the point where you do lose proper compatibility, why even use build.
If it was just a matter of refocusing existing efforts towards rendering then we'd be rocking pixel shader 420+ but to be fair, Pogo is really the main guy doing a lot of heavy lifting lately regarding renderer work. Polymer is a dead end currently and polymost even has it's limits. A lot of work simply has to be done to modernize things around and many of those have been implemented over the months already.
I wouldn't expect any proper "in-house" polymer miracles to happen though.
#25 Posted 05 January 2019 - 01:15 PM
A new branch was heavily discouraged by present devs. I understand their concern because after ICD created his new renderer they very likely would have been stuck with maintaining it and they had neither the time or skills for it. So the wheel turns...
This post has been edited by Mark: 05 January 2019 - 01:16 PM
#26 Posted 05 January 2019 - 01:32 PM
Mark, on 05 January 2019 - 01:15 PM, said:
Then he came back and promised to do things the right way and was no longer discouraged (at least not publicly). Then he left again.
The atmosphere around here has sometimes been discouraging for new members and alternative projects, that's true. It's been a problem at times. However, the main reason we have a small community with only one active port is that it's for a very old game that is not Doom.
#27 Posted 05 January 2019 - 02:09 PM
Mark, on 05 January 2019 - 01:15 PM, said:
Instead of inventing your own explanations for why we took the positions we did, you should read the words we wrote explaining ourselves.
#28 Posted 05 January 2019 - 02:31 PM
Trooper Dan, on 05 January 2019 - 01:32 PM, said:
We don't know why he left again--he had some pretty serious things going on in his life. He was definitely strongly encouraged behind the scenes after expressing a willingness to do things how we wanted them done. The Visual Studio solution and project files he produced for us during that time have been incredibly useful.