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Duke Nukem Forever lacked depth

User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#1

I'm talking about story depth.

This is somewhat annoying because it actually tried to have a story, yet as it turns out, there wasn't really a story at all. The point I'm making is that this time, it was meant to be personal between Duke and the aliens, but it feels a lot less personal than it was in Duke 3D. In the latter game, Duke had conversations with the aliens and the bosses, such as the pigcops' "gotcha now you bastard, and we're going to fry your ass." As well as the Battlelord's hologram where he says "too late Nukem, we're in control now." Not to mention all the dialogue that happens at the end of each episode.

It bugs me that in the start of the game everyone's saying "hey it's the same aliens you fought 12 years ago" and "the choice of venues isn't a coincidence, this time it's personal" yet the aliens never, ever talk to Duke as far as I can see. They look like dumb animals which happen to be invading and shooting everyone for no reason. I would have killed to have one conversation with the Cycloid Emperor or similar over a viewscreen talking about how "this time, you won't be able to stop us, Duke" or soemthing like that. Except for some of the NPC's comments, you'd think it was the first time Duke fought these guys, which makes it much less epic than it could have been, especially since all the dialogue that does happen is with cliched army guys and stuff, and not with the aliens, who are the interesting characters. They missed out on a great opportunity here.

Even the addition of bombshell would have given the story a lot more depth, even if she wasn't a playable character. I know everyone's going to say "It's a Duke Nukem game, it doesn't need a story" and you're exactly right, maybe they shouldn't have tried to put a story in there in the first place, and just have Duke go around killing aliens, solving puzzles and interacting with babes.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 19 June 2011 - 02:32 AM

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User is offline   ThePinkus 

#2

I feel like they tried to imply they were personally coming for Duke. One of the hints is how they
Spoiler


Now that you mention it though, yeah, I would've liked something more direct. Why are they invading again? You think with all the technology they had they would invade other planets first or something, and THEN get Duke. Instead, its like they just tried to repeat the same invasion, except
Spoiler


There was probably a much better story that went more in depth with better pacing, but the game feels like parts were left out to make a deadline and hastily put together to make a somewhat coherent timeline.

This post has been edited by ThePinkus: 19 June 2011 - 02:41 AM

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User is offline   Valdsator 

#3

Now that you mention it, yeah, I would have really liked there to be more conversations and hate between Duke and the aliens. Hell, more conversations overall would have been better. In the trailers Duke talks to Gus, some EDF, and the Lady Killer worker, but now it's just "DUKE, BLAH BLAH BLAH SECRET BASE, BLAH BLAH BLAH NUCLEAR MISSLE BOMB." He only responds to this with some one liners, talking to himself, rather than actually responding to the other person. Duke just talking to himself gets old after a while.
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User is offline   Kathy 

#4

As someone rightfully mentioned when president was ordering Duke not to attack aliens our badass haven't said a word. Has he ever responded to anyone actually? We've seen president lecturing Duke several times and he haven't spoken a word right to his face. WTF?
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#5

View PostMicky C, on 19 June 2011 - 02:30 AM, said:

I'm talking about story depth.

This is somewhat annoying because it actually tried to have a story, yet as it turns out, there wasn't really a story at all. The point I'm making is that this time, it was meant to be personal between Duke and the aliens, but it feels a lot less personal than it was in Duke 3D. In the latter game, Duke had conversations with the aliens and the bosses, such as the pigcops' "gotcha now you bastard, and we're going to fry your ass." As well as the Battlelord's hologram where he says "too late Nukem, we're in control now." Not to mention all the dialogue that happens at the end of each episode.

It bugs me that in the start of the game everyone's saying "hey it's the same aliens you fought 12 years ago" and "the choice of venues isn't a coincidence, this time it's personal" yet the aliens never, ever talk to Duke as far as I can see. They look like dumb animals which happen to be invading and shooting everyone for no reason. I would have killed to have one conversation with the Cycloid Emperor or similar over a viewscreen talking about how "this time, you won't be able to stop us, Duke" or soemthing like that. Except for some of the NPC's comments, you'd think it was the first time Duke fought these guys, which makes it much less epic than it could have been, especially since all the dialogue that does happen is with cliched army guys and stuff, and not with the aliens, who are the interesting characters. They missed out on a great opportunity here.

Even the addition of bombshell would have given the story a lot more depth, even if she wasn't a playable character. I know everyone's going to say "It's a Duke Nukem game, it doesn't need a story" and you're exactly right, maybe they shouldn't have tried to put a story in there in the first place, and just have Duke go around killing aliens, solving puzzles and interacting with babes.


Quoting Randy Pitchford on Twitter:
"Comment RE: looking at DNF for narrative depth: "It's like Rolling Stone magazine trying to find a deep meaningful message in a Ke$ha song." "

http://twitter.com/#!/duvalmagic

This post has been edited by 3rdmillhouse: 19 June 2011 - 09:18 AM

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User is offline   randir14 

#6

View PostHelel, on 19 June 2011 - 07:55 AM, said:

As someone rightfully mentioned when president was ordering Duke not to attack aliens our badass haven't said a word. Has he ever responded to anyone actually? We've seen president lecturing Duke several times and he haven't spoken a word right to his face. WTF?


He responds to some characters. Off the top of my head:
General Graves before exiting the casino
EDF soldier near the Halo armor
Holsom twins in the apartment, and later in the Hive
Stripper in Titty City

This post has been edited by randir14: 19 June 2011 - 10:17 AM

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User is offline   Kichae 

#7

View Post3rdmillhouse, on 19 June 2011 - 09:18 AM, said:

Quoting Randy Pitchford on Twitter:
"Comment RE: looking at DNF for narrative depth: "It's like Rolling Stone magazine trying to find a deep meaningful message in a Ke$ha song." "

http://twitter.com/#!/duvalmagic


I think that's a little disingenuous of Pitchford, considering that the game actually spends its first chapter or two attempting to lay down a narrative basis for the game. No one's looking for meaning, deep or otherwise, in a Duke Nukem title, but the game seems to make an attempt at an actual meaningful narrative, and that attempt should be owned up to. 3DR attempted something there, and came up a bit wanting. Being told not to criticize the outcome because it's supposedly not worth criticizing is kinda sad. If it's not worth criticizing, it wasn't worth doing in the first place, after all.

Personally, I found that the "story" elements, regardless whether they were meant to be as shallow as a puddle or not, pulled me out of the game. I would have been happy - happier, even - with "Damnit, there goes my [insert person/object/whatever here]." I appreciate the attempt, when someone does something (or in this case, invests in something), and people tell them that there's room for improvement, a reply of"Yeah, whatever. It doesn't matter anyway. Who gives a shit?" just makes one seem butt-hurt.
2

User is offline   serioussam 

#8

Think its because of all the Content that was cut, there are a some odd moments through out the game story that feels like it didn't make sense or there should have been more.
I believe 3DR set out to make DNF a heavy story driven FPS, maybe the upcoming DLC would make some of the pieces fit togather.
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User is offline   SavagE 

#9

Well, the emperor is doing all the talking with the president, but still it would be nice to hear just a taunt.

And shouldn't be cycloid dead? Like he was killed in 3d or something...
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#10

Maybe they just cloned another cycloid emperor. I still think at least one conversation with the leaders of the alien invasion should have taken place.
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User is offline   Hank 

#11

View Post3rdmillhouse, on 19 June 2011 - 09:18 AM, said:

Quoting Randy Pitchford on Twitter:
"Comment RE: looking at DNF for narrative depth: "It's like Rolling Stone magazine trying to find a deep meaningful message in a Ke$ha song." "

http://twitter.com/#!/duvalmagic

Amen to Randy - that quote in picture format
[attachment=2974:criticism hamburger.jpg]

Posted Image
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#12

Nonsense, even Duke Nukem: Zero Hour had a very good and coherent story-line, especially considering it was a game from 1999. Duke Nukem 3D itself had a very limited storyline, but it still made sense and strung all the levels and plot together nicely. In terms of Duke games, I'd say ZH probably has the epitome of what a storyline should be like in a Duke game, and I'm still probably gonna end up rating it higher than DNF.
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User is offline   Madmaxwell 

#13

View PostThePinkus, on 19 June 2011 - 02:39 AM, said:

I feel like they tried to imply they were personally coming for Duke. One of the hints is how they
Spoiler


Now that you mention it though, yeah, I would've liked something more direct. Why are they invading again? You think with all the technology they had they would invade other planets first or something, and THEN get Duke. Instead, its like they just tried to repeat the same invasion, except
Spoiler


There was probably a much better story that went more in depth with better pacing, but the game feels like parts were left out to make a deadline and hastily put together to make a somewhat coherent timeline.


Spoiler

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User is offline   X-Vector 

#14

View PostKichae, on 19 June 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

"Yeah, whatever. It doesn't matter anyway. Who gives a shit?" just makes one seem butt-hurt.


That seems to be his standard reply to criticism of the game, even when it hasn't been made yet - i.e. the "review scores don't matter" comments.

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#15

Duke Nukem: Zero Hour is def how a Duke story should be told (doesn't need time travel though). That game kept me hella interested in it, not to mention Duke actually has conversations with his allies and enemies. A classic for sure.
1

User is offline   Malgon 

#16

^That reminds me that I still have to play through that. :D
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#17

Do it, I highly recommend it. I'd say it feels a proper sequel to D3D, and is one of the better games in the series.
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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #18

View PostSavagE, on 19 June 2011 - 01:54 PM, said:

Well, the emperor is doing all the talking with the president, but still it would be nice to hear just a taunt.

And shouldn't be cycloid dead? Like he was killed in 3d or something...

I think there's an entire race of "cycloids" and at any given time one of them is the emperor.
1

User is offline   serioussam 

#19

Yeh after playing through DNF for the third time, the Story is definitely DNF weakest point. I really do believe the content that was cut hurt the overall story.

Also we really do need a Zero Hour remake or Graphic update like the Hrp for DN3D :D
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