Duke4.net Forums: Randy Made A Single Tweet About A Duke Nukem Animated Series - Duke4.net Forums

What I'm saying is, if a game like Cyberpunk is going to be attacked, then there's no point in trying to appease them because they are going to attack you anyway, so you might as well make the game you want. The moaning about "racism" has just become background noise which is better ignored. Those who listen to it have fallen into a void. Not saying that real racism doesn't exist, but if everyone except for a few self-anointed high priests of political correctness is a "racist" then there's nothing to be done but ignore the moaning until people regain some sanity.

Yes, that would be the rational thing to do.

gerolf, on 13 June 2019 - 05:16 PM, said:

To Doom 2016's credit, performing a Glory Kill leaves you vulnerable to attacks from other enemies, so it is definitely not an easy way out. Also, if I recall right, a staggering enemy will eventually recover and resume fighting you, so you only have a brief window of opportunity.

Trooper Dan, on 14 June 2019 - 01:25 AM, said:

I do not know what article is being referred to here, but CD Projekt has a well-documented history of being pretty shit towards marginalised people.

Plus, much like the last two Deus Ex games and similar products that care more about making the player feel badass and turning the dystopian hellhole setting into just a fun playground, Cyberpunk 2077 seems to have gotten its understanding of the Cyberpunk genre all wrong. William Gibson himself said it best when he called it a "GTA skinned-over with a generic 80s retro-future". In a way, it reminds me of how BioShock was sold as a satire of Ayn Rand's philosophy, only to pretty much unironically embrace it from a mechanical standpoint by having you hoard all the resources and crush anyone and anything that stands in your way; even the much-touted moral choices basically boiled down to both choices being equally rewarding, thus framing either outcome as valid.

Finally, it is rather disingenuous of you to equate "real" racism to just extreme cases like Adolf Hitler. I mean, come on, now.

The Battlelord, on 12 June 2019 - 08:22 PM, said:

The problem with all that extremely violent content is that makes the game feel immature and cheap. Duke 3D is much more than a violent game with tits and stupid one-liners. Duke 3D is immersive enough to make you feel inside of it, no matter what kind of person you are. This is mainly possible because Duke doesn't do anything more than what you command (shoot a weapon, use an object, open a door, jump, etc), and also because its lack of intrusive cutscenes, its great and varied level design, its also great and varied music (not only annoying metal tracks), and if that's not enough, it has a level editor and scripting system to allow you make everything you want.

You cannot make a game like this today unless you are Voidpoint. Thanks to COD and similars, people got used to simple level design (imagine a kid today trying to play Wolfenstein 3D or the original Rise of the Triad, how far will he get and how many minutes will he need to desist and say "boring"?). Games like Doom 2016 try to also attract old school players with a bit more complex level design, but it's still pretty damn far from being as great as the original Doom, so they need to cover this mediocrity with all that flashy and gory content.

Thanks to all this, I'm not interested anymore about new Doom/Duke Nukem/Quake/etc games, because I already know how generic and unnecessarily violent they will be. Developers have forgotten about people who enjoyed the classics as the masterpieces they are and are focussing only on people who just played them to avoid getting bored.

Or maybe some people just appreciate simple design. Not everything has to get more complex with every iteration.

Perro Seco, on 14 June 2019 - 06:10 AM, said:

I would argue that you can, actually. Have you already forgotten about games like Prey 2017 and Dishonored? Sure, they do not come with level editors, but in terms of interactivity and level design, they absolutely blow games like Duke Nukem 3D out of the water.

Perro Seco, on 14 June 2019 - 06:10 AM, said:

I do not know. As much as I love the original Doom, I do think it gets really repetitive after a while and I cannot help but feel like the writer behind the much-maligned "If You Could Only Talk To The Monsters" review; maybe it is because I am growing old, but I find myself wishing for more as technology keeps getting more advanced yet games - especially first-person shooters - tend to stay pretty much the same mechanically. I was also never able to really enjoy Wolfenstein 3D because of how limited it is and how utterly obsolete it has become following Doom's release.

Perro Seco, on 14 June 2019 - 06:10 AM, said:

Even though I fully agree with you on Doom 2016's mediocrity, I have to admit it does feature some pretty good enemy AI that I wish Doom 3 has had in the first place; its arsenal is not bad either, even if I think that most of them look like they come from a futuristic Call of Duty game - why would you put realistic iron sights on them if the game does not even allow you to aim? - and that light RPG mechanics in the form of unlockable perks and abilities just do not belong in a Doom game. Oh yeah, and reducing the Chainsaw to basically a quick instakill weapon is just... no.

Do Prey 2017 and Dishonoured provide a level editor and scripting system to make whatever you want? Though I suppose you could say Unreal and other game engines fill that gap now...

Wolf3D actually seems to work pretty well as a mobile game. I've been replaying it a couple times on my Samsung. I'm just glad it's not an official port and that there are no microtransactions throughout it lol.

thricecursed, on 13 June 2019 - 11:52 PM, said:

I disagree. I've never thought of Trump when I played any of the Duke Nukem games, even after he was elected. When I think of Trump, I think of an uglier and stupider version of Bob Page from Deus Ex, or at least a Protozoid Slimer in vague human form. Trump and Duke have nothing in common. You would have to significantly rewrite Duke's character in order for him to remotely resemble Trump, and that would just make him really annoying and unlikable. When I look at Duke Nukem, I see a playful parody and homage of muscular action heroes with his own unique arsenal and menagerie of enemies. I'm leftwing, and that's how I've always saw Duke Nukem.

I tried to search for the article you mentioned. I've seen several articles that touch on what you talk about. I disagree with it, but it's not enough to incense me. Personally, I've been irritated more by articles or rants that complain about such opinions rather than the opinions themselves.

The only controversial thing about the Duke games (at least the ones post-Duke 3D) is that Duke goes to strip clubs, Duke gives cash to chicks while they're dancing, and that the Duke games portray babes being infested and in bondage (in a combined reference to the Alien and Evil Dead films). So long as Duke is fighting the aliens, and not responsible for any infesting of babes himself, he's fine. I'm even in favor of Duke Nukem games incorporating interactive sex, if that were possible. I guess the more controversial option would be to give Duke back the ability to kill NPCs for no reason, but many games from the 90s (Jedi Knight, Strife, Blood, Interstate 76, Half-Life) to present day (Grand Theft Auto, Dishonored, Deus Ex: HR) have gotten away with that mechanic.

The most political thing I've ever heard Duke say was that it would be nice to see Detroit boil off into space, and that was from Duke 2.

Anyway, the problem isn't political correctness. It's Gearbox not knowing what to do with Duke Nukem. And it's also everyone having a lot of pent up resentment and anger, and not being able to talk to each other without going crazy. What Duke needs is the right developer, the right level designer, and the right writers who know how make Duke really good, and know how to push the levels of interactivity in a Duke game. The community needs to spend more time discussing the games we love, and making really good Duke mods rather than arguing.

That's my view, anyway.

Perro Seco, on 14 June 2019 - 06:10 AM, said:

Well, i just try to be open mind but, videogames are made to broke real life's rules and even try to go beyond human tolerance sometimes, this include high violence, which is a personal taste, like the music, someone may find heavy metal nice and addicted, other persons find it just a bunch of bad noises and, personally, is not my genre but, i admit and respect that their voice request years of training.
Anyway, does not matter the brand if the game is nice and can surprise people, they will buy it regardless if it is made by their lovely company or not.

Perro Seco, on 14 June 2019 - 06:10 AM, said:

My point of view is that a person is a summary of informations, based on its life experiences things can results wrong, right or hard to take a decision.I think that even nowdays, kids may like old school games and modern ones but, they should grow up in a context where people play those games to allow them to appreciate these classics.
Viceversa, we can dream to ask about kids that already had the habit to play modern stuff only.
I'm able to appreciate some modern gamess too but, if you ask me how long i've played Doom (2016) and Duke Nukem 3D the result is:

Doom (2016) = left 1 year ago, expecially because lack of a decent multiplayer.
Duke Nukem 3D = I still play it nowdays, expecially playing E1L1 and E1L2, when i have more time the full episode 1 is mine .
However, i think that people needs to become more neutral to evaluate more points of view properly.

Once again, i apologize if someone feelings got hurt.

Peace.

There is a reference in DNF that I have noticed a little while ago, about the "America fuck yeah !" punchline :

johnnythewolf, on 14 June 2019 - 02:36 AM, said:

I think it's too early to tell re: Cyberpunk 2077, but I see what you're saying. I didn't like the trailer for the reasons you gave, but from what I've read, the developers do want to talk about the darker side of capitalism. There is definitely a risk that it'll come across like a fun playground a la GTA, but we'll just have to wait and see. I felt the same way when I played Bioshock for the first time by the way. I just think sometimes artists fail, you know? Others would have it seem more nefarious than that. People are flawed and make flawed products.

@Techbot - I'm not necessarily talking about people on this forum, which is a minority anyway. Publishers have to think more broadly than trying to appeal to niche audiences, unless that niche is big enough (which it might be, I'm not disputing that). "And it's also everyone having a lot of pent up resentment and anger, and not being able to talk to each other without going crazy" - we are in agreement there. This is basically what I said.

The fact that any of you are arguing whether a one dimensional character who literally only says one liners from 80s and 90s movies somehow has a voter registration ID and is right wing republican just shows that you all are fucking STUPID. Pretty sure Duke doesn't have time to worry about that shit. Plus, he saves Clinton you stupid fucks! CLINTON IS NOT FAR RIGHT???

Flying Techbot, on 14 June 2019 - 07:32 AM, said:

I admit I can no longer not think of Donald Trump ever since I have seen this video from IGN:



And while I agree that Duke Nukem and the real Donald Trump are in many ways completely different, they do have some similarities in the sense that they are both philandering narcissicists who like to sound tough and steal catchphrases. Moreover, I would argue that Duke Nukem very much feels like the fictional, idealised version of Donald Trump that has been propagated by far-right cartoonists like Ben Garrison. So in that sense, then yes, a new Duke Nukem would very much feel like a Fantasy Donald Trump simulator if it continues to portray Duke Nukem like he was in Duke Nukem Forever.

gerolf, on 14 June 2019 - 09:26 AM, said:

Well, he and his wife lean heavily towards the Right on so many issues, which is the reason why the two of them are so disliked by the progressive faction of the Democratic Party. In fact, a recurring criticism of the Clinton is that they might as well just be moderate Republicans at this point...

Also, I can totally picture Duke Nukem mocking Bill Clinton by telling him that he likes people who are not captured.

gerolf, on 14 June 2019 - 09:26 AM, said:

He saved the President. It doesn't matter their views, Duke would save Obama just as he would save Trump. I'd imagine Duje would be right leaning, but not full blown Republican.

I hope you don't live in the United States, but if you do, please don't hesitate to never use your constitutional freedoms again.

I can disprove everything all of you have said. Scott Miller is very left leaning, as is JSJ, the voice actor of Duke. Go back to sucking on your mommy's titties and stay out of the political debates, because your brains are too simple to understand that Duke Nukem is a fictional character who is apolitical.

gerolf, on 14 June 2019 - 09:42 AM, said:

I'm a proud American, born and raised.

gerolf, on 14 June 2019 - 09:47 AM, said:

You see, this is the problem. Here we are actually having a conversation, and you are just going into a childish tantrum. Yes Duke's fictional, but we're simply saying: What would it be?

Also, you don't seem to comprehend seperation of actor and character. Look at Stallone, he thinks gun should be banned, yet the characters he plays consistently use them. Personal view don't dictate a character unless you write them that way. There's nothing saying Duke's left or right leaning, and I would say he's more right than left, but even so, I don't think he'd care. As long as he has his guns, babes, and alcohol, whilst killing alien invaders, Duke's fine.

Duke is clearly an anarcho-capitalist.

To be honest, i don't think Duke would give a fuck about politics.

johnnythewolf, on 14 June 2019 - 02:36 AM, said:

What are you talking about? I did a quick search and found out about this completely harmless joke tweet:

https://www.vgr.com/...gy-transphobic/

But surely you are referring to other things that have real significance, right?

I ignored that one on purpose. I'm trying so hard to find something worth liking about johnny, lol. But, people did complain that there weren't any black people in the Witcher series. Never mind that it's set in medieval Europe or whatever. https://www.polygon....gs-race-problem

The way I feel about this is the same way I feel about women complaining that there aren't enough women in video games (or that they're depicted negatively). Hey, why don't you make your own game where your people are represented? You can do it any way you want!

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I'm glad you're reasonable guy, thricecursed. We need more people like that on this forum. While I am still a dedicated fan to classic games from the 90s and the early 2000s, I still see the value in the indie game scene which tries to reach out many other audiences out there. I'm very eclectic in my gaming tastes. Publishers can be narrow in their thinking, but there are also ambitious developers out there who are trying to push what games are capable of in all kinds of areas.

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That is pretty funny, johnny. Pretty clever, too.

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I just checked Ben Garrison's cartoons out of curiosity. I'm an aspiring satirical cartoonist myself, and I always take an interest in what other cartoonists do. Interesting style, but very self-satisfied. I'm personally prefer Ralph Steadman and Gerald Scarfe. I like to think that Duke Nukem would rather blow Garrison up than be a fan of him. I can say that Duke is a little bit narcissistic, because he did after all title his book Why I'm So Great. In DNF, Duke does come across as a little more narcissistic, if only because of how he decorated his casino, and did so many musical and ballet franchise knock-offs of lines he stole from Ash. But he's not nearly as narcissistic as the abominable DT. Plus, I like to think that that if DNF had been written differently, and his fellow NPCs were given more depth, Duke would've been given a chance to develop his personality more. I have a few ideas of my own on how DNF would've been rewritten, or at least ideas for additional content for the 2013 DNF mod. While I think Duke should be able to have sex in a Duke Nukem game, I think it would also be funny to additionally have Duke be turned down by a few women a la Leisure Suit Larry.

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I don't entirely agree, johnny. I think they were mostly good than bad, but they did some things I'm not agreement with either. I thought it was unfair and hypocritical for Bill to force Jocelyn Elders, the surgeon general, to resign just because she thought masturbation should be taught to young people. It just seemed very prudish and hypocritical for Bill to do that. There are other things I disagreed about them, but largely, I still find them to be more reasonable and practical than most politicians, and I think they are the kind of politicians that are willing to listen as well try to work well with others.

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He's alright when I talk to him. It's just when the more aggressive members get confrontational with him, he gets confrontational back. He responds pretty well to diplomatic and laidback posts.

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Well, the Witcher is set in fantasy world inspired by medieval Europe, so I don't see why it shouldn't include other ethnicities as well. After all, Elder Scrolls and the Ultima were inspired by medieval Europe, and they allowed you to play as black characters. And I don't mind women wanting more women in games. I do agree that that the people who want more representation should be able to make the games they want to play. There's so many potential creativity among the critical crowd, I'd be willing to play whatever game they'd come up with.

gerolf, on 14 June 2019 - 09:47 AM, said:

"Apolitical" does not mean having politics that do not bother you personally. Laugh it off all you want, but a story about a (rich and quite selfish) individual saving the day by violently defeating hordes of invading aliens while the government stands idly by because they are too incompetent to take care of the problem itself is very much a right-wing fantasy.

A proper left-wing Duke Nukem game would most likely play out like a fairly straightforward video game adaptation of John Carpenter's They Live, with Duke Nukem being a down-on-his-luck member of the working class rising up against the ruling class and starting a revolution, fighting the authorities in the process rather than doing their job for them.

Trooper Dan, on 14 June 2019 - 11:27 AM, said:

Well, there is your problem. A more exhaustive research would have told you that this is hardly CD Projekt's first transphobic incident; for instance, a year ago, the company had to fire a GOG community manager who tried to hijack a Twitter hashtag that was started in reaction to yet another attempt by the Trump administration to strip trans people of their rights. It is already pretty shitty to use a legitimate cause to advertise your video game online store, but I read the employee then went on to work for none other than Jeremy 'The Quartering' Hambly, who is not just a massive transphobe himself but an all-around vile human being. And if you go further back in time, there was that time when a GOG customer service agent took upon himself to argue with a trans customer who was deeply affected by a now-removed nasty transphobic joke in Pillars of Eternity - as if it were up to him to decide how marginalised people should feel about getting publicly ridiculed.

And those are only examples off the top of my head.

Flying Techbot, on 14 June 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

It is worth remembering that Medieval Europe was hardly a homogenous bastion of whiteness to begin with. I mean, the Iberian Peninsula was conquered by the Moors and annexed to the Umayyad Caliphate, which lasted for roughly seven centuries. Not just that, but even without our modern means of transportation, people still travelled a lot back then, in part as a result of trade routes.

thricecursed, on 14 June 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

That is okay; I do not like you either.

thricecursed, on 14 June 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

Plenty of women have been trying despite the enduring belief that girls just do not play video games, but the industry at large tends to be largely hostile towards them, either actively through reactionary backlashes from the most fanatical and reactionary elements of the gaming community or passively through policies, practices and workplace culture that just do not take women into consideration.

johnnythewolf, on 14 June 2019 - 02:15 PM, said:

That's actually pretty true. And based on that I'd say a left wing centric Duke game wouldn't work. Not saying the games should go into politics.

Never Forgotten, on 14 June 2019 - 02:33 PM, said:

You do not think They Live would make for a great video game?

And yes, I know it was already unofficially adapted into a first-person shooter by a Russian studio, but it does not really count, as the game was poorly and cheaply made.

johnnythewolf, on 14 June 2019 - 02:47 PM, said:

Maybe not for Duke. That's all.

I sure am glad that another thread has been turned into the same goddam conversation about reworking Duke as a character thanks to community staple JohnnyTheWolf.

I’d be on board for a Duke animated series. Hopefully they’d get JSJ to voice him. An adaptation of the ‘Glorious Bastard’ comic series would be pretty rad.

johnnythewolf, on 14 June 2019 - 02:15 PM, said:

I literally linked an article about that very incident in my previous post. It was the thing that came up in my quick search. It really pisses me off that you don't respect me enough to even bother looking at what I posted before replying. And whether a youtuber you don't like ended up hiring the fired community manager is irrelevant. CD Projekt fired a community manager over the joke, but that's not enough for you -- in your mind they are transphobic forever because such a person could have worked for them in the first place. The kind of petty slander that you are peddling here is precisely what gamers, game journalists and human beings in general should ignore.