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SIGIL  "Split from "John Romero and Adrian Carmack's new FPS""

User is offline   fgsfds 

#241

Did everyone get their boxes shipped? Mine still didn't.
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User is offline   HulkNukem 

#242

You can buy Sigil along with the Buckethead soundtrack for around 7 USD right now. It also has the MIDI soundtrack too.
https://www.romerogames.ie/si6il

Free Wad comes out May 31

*edit* I see Mr Tibbs already posted about this. <_<

^^ Mine only started shipping yesterday.

This post has been edited by HulkNukem: 25 May 2019 - 09:11 PM

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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#243

Wait... you can buy and play the download version already? So I have bought the boxed version and others can play it first after all?

Sorry, but this sucks.
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User is offline   Lunick 

#244

View PostNightFright, on 25 May 2019 - 11:41 PM, said:

Wait... you can buy and play the download version already? So I have bought the boxed version and others can play it first after all?

Sorry, but this sucks.


Romero can't wait for every single person in the world to receive their boxed copy, that could potentially be weeks for some far away countries. A bunch of customers have gotten their boxes and so Romero made the decision to offer the paid release up first.

He probably should have given people who bought the box a digital version though.

EDIT: My current thoughts on SIGIL:
Posted Image
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#245

What is a CEYEA0 puzzle?
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User is offline   Sanek 

#246


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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#247

About his issues with the lighting (or lack thereof): I'm yet to play any of this but aren't there some settings in GZDoom that can salvage this?

Anyway I'm not really surprised if it's bad since it seemed like the unfair bullshit the early levels of Thy Flesh Consumed were from the videos already but yeah, this absolutely doesn't look like something I'd want to play.
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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#248

Up to a point, but if the sector's are simply shaded too dark, no amount of brightness adjustment is going to help without making the whole thing just look like garbage.
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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#249

And don't forget: Romero didnt want to replace ep4 because it had pretty "awesome" maps in it. I am sure he didn't refer to E4M2. Cough, cough.

But yeah, if I am honest, I am not a fan of dark maps with too little space to dodge attacks, either. Who would be? I had hoped Romero hadn't assumed every Doomer is playing hard maps by default. If he still plans to make D2 pack after this... I think the demand for it will be low.

This post has been edited by NightFright: 26 May 2019 - 09:44 AM

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User is offline   NNC 

#250

I'm not sure what to think of this. The levels look amazing (except the secret level, it felt like a parody of Sigil by an average mapper), the idea of shooting the eye is great, but the gameplay was painful. Romero always loved catwalks, honestly he did it as early as Phobos Lab, and it got worse with levels like Perfect Hatred and Living End, and E1M4b used it pretty often too. So it's not a new thing, but still not a thing that many people, including me, likes. And what's worse is the lack of good ammo for RPG and Plasma Gun. The standard shottie is not good against Cacos and Barons, especially in tight, dark places. The SSG would have helped a lot.

The most creative level was E5M4, the one with the three paths. I think Romero did the wrong thing to remove the red and blue keys, they were there in the demo, and it confused me a lot. But overall that was one memorable level. I expected more from E5M5 and E5M6. And overall from the entire episode. But it's not that bad as that guy on the video states, and I still pick it over the undoomish sprawling mappacks like Eviternity. It still feels Doom.

I hope John will make a better Doom 2 pack after getting the criticism.
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#251

How would you say it fares in comparison to E1M8b? Is it on par with it, better or worse?

This post has been edited by johnnythewolf: 26 May 2019 - 01:22 PM

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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#252

Good news: Buyers of the boxed editions can get the download version of the wad with Buckethead music if they forward their order confirmation to info@romerogames.com. Which I just did.

This post has been edited by NightFright: 26 May 2019 - 12:08 PM

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User is offline   HulkNukem 

#253

I don't take Gmanlives reviews seriously anymore and its no surprise he didn't like Sigil.
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User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#254

View PostNightFright, on 26 May 2019 - 09:30 AM, said:

I had hoped Romero hadn't assumed every Doomer is playing hard maps by default.


To be fair, he did say it was going to be extremely hard to account for 25 years of experience. So I believe he did, in fact, believe that. Let's not forget that his levels in the originals (barring KDitD of course) tended to be counted among the most difficult. He really likes his absurd difficulty.

View PostNancsi, on 26 May 2019 - 09:39 AM, said:

I'm not sure what to think of this. The levels look amazing (except the secret level, it felt like a parody of Sigil by an average mapper), the idea of shooting the eye is great, but the gameplay was painful. Romero always loved catwalks, honestly he did it as early as Phobos Lab, and it got worse with levels like Perfect Hatred and Living End, and E1M4b used it pretty often too. So it's not a new thing, but still not a thing that many people, including me, likes. And what's worse is the lack of good ammo for RPG and Plasma Gun. The standard shottie is not good against Cacos and Barons, especially in tight, dark places. The SSG would have helped a lot.The most creative level was E5M4, the one with the three paths. I think Romero did the wrong thing to remove the red and blue keys, they were there in the demo, and it confused me a lot. But overall that was one memorable level. I expected more from E5M5 and E5M6. And overall from the entire episode. But it's not that bad as that guy on the video states, and I still pick it over the undoomish sprawling mappacks like Eviternity. It still feels Doom.I hope John will make a better Doom 2 pack after getting the criticism.


Based on this and what I've seen from others' reactions so far, it sounds like Sigil is his previous two levels meets Thy Flesh Consumed, which is pretty much exactly what I expected, for both good and ill.


I'll reserve final judgement until I play it for myself but that's what I've been gathering.

This post has been edited by Ninety-Six: 26 May 2019 - 02:28 PM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#255

View PostNinety-Six, on 26 May 2019 - 02:27 PM, said:

To be fair, he did say it was going to be extremely hard to account for 25 years of experience. So I believe he did, in fact, believe that. Let's not forget that his levels in the originals (barring KDitD of course) tended to be counted among the most difficult. He really likes his absurd difficulty.

And there's nothing wrong with that, the problem I think is that Romero has a kinda outdated view on game difficulty. He makes trial and error puzzle boxes where the punishmet of failure is death: that's not a popular thing to do these days and on top of that you just know that people will save scum through these levels instead of letting the maps flow naturally and restarting after a fuckup. That's a problem too: anyone can complete a Romero map by save scumming in a modern source port, that defeats the idea of challenge. Anyone can do it now, it's not an accomplishment to beat it.

E1M8b had a different approach to level design: the puzzle box was still there and it was punishing to fail but it had a more natural flow and the map itself was mechanically challenging. I'm only starting out in Sigil with a few maps in but I'm not impressed honestly, in comparison I liked E1M8b so much that I completed it 10 times in just a couple of days time, I just kept returning to it and appreciate different aspects. I hope Sigil will grow on me too because it really seems like an episode you have to play multiple times to get good enough and appreciate the flow.
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User is offline   HulkNukem 

#256

If you haven't played yet, just know it is pretty easy to entirely break the levels.

There's eyes you need to shoot in order to open doors. When you shoot the eye, the eye itself becomes blocked off to signify you activated it.
Problem is, if you shoot at it at an angle instead of head on (or with fists/chainsaw) the eye will become blocked off without triggering doors to open, making the level impossible.

He does the eye trigger several times in most of the levels, so its happened several times for me now.
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User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#257

View PostZaxx, on 26 May 2019 - 03:42 PM, said:

And there's nothing wrong with that, the problem I think is that Romero has a kinda outdated view on game difficulty.


Oh I know he does. And I'm not really defending it. However, when he said that he planned to make this as hard as possible, I saw this coming. Romero has always had a leaning towards the bullshit-y, going back as far as the vanilla games, even Wolfenstein and Quake.

View PostZaxx, on 26 May 2019 - 03:42 PM, said:

that's not a popular thing to do these days


Spoiler

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User is offline   Jinroh 

#258

View PostNightFright, on 26 May 2019 - 11:56 AM, said:

Good news: Buyers of the boxed editions can get the download version of the wad with Buckethead music if they forward their order confirmation to info@romerogames.com. Which I just did.


Oh rad, thanks for the tip, I sent my fwd and e-mailed them. :3
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#259

View PostNinety-Six, on 26 May 2019 - 05:01 PM, said:

(thecacowardsdisagreewithyou)

Haha, yeah but there at least I see a reason for that: if you're a super hardcore doomer there will be a point where you can only increase the difficulty by introducing those bullshit trap rooms you see in a lot in "modern" mappacks. I'm sure that crowd will appreciate Sigil too, another Cacoward is a sure thing coming towards Romero, it's just that Sigil is clearly attracting a wider audience so the "Doomworld" direction sucks.
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User is offline   Lunick 

#260

I found SIGIL fairly okay for difficulty. I played on Hurt Me Plenty and did not have any real issues compared to Thy Flesh Consumed. I didn't find the secret level so I attempted to Pistol start it and unless I missed some secrets with lots of ammo, I think it'd be hard to 100% it by itself due to the Cyberdemon in that level and not having enough ammo. I liked the episode but I can see why some people would be disappointed with an expensive boxed purchase of it. I'd probably sell the episode for a bit less than what he is asking for now.
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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#261

I'll do what I always do with wads I don't know: ITYTD or HNTR and hoping for a more or less relaxed playthrough. After that it can be harder. Fingers crossed Romero also thought of the lower difficulties. I guess most people play on UV, therefore I am not surprised about reports regarding the challenge factor being high.

This post has been edited by NightFright: 26 May 2019 - 09:56 PM

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User is offline   NNC 

#262

Actually Sigil exposed the basic flaw of Ultimate Doom (or well, Registered Doom) beyond the shareware episode. KDITD is fine (and so is E1M4b and E1M8b), as the balance of the weapons/monsters is good. The Pinky is the meatiest of all, but even it can go down by 3 shotgun shots. In Doom 2, the SSG was introduced, and along with the RPG, the Plasma Gun and the BFG, it handled the balanced beastiary of much higer HP. But there is a big void between the shareware episode and Doom II. The 3 registered episodes of UDoom introduced the Caco and the Baron, which both have much higher HP compared to the rest of the squad. And with no SSG in your arsenal. If you don't have the Plasma Gun, fighting them feel out of place and ultimately a chore in the end. Registered Doom was a rushed product, with episode 2 and 3 being made in a very short time, and many enemy types from Archvile through the Mancubus to Revenant is not finished yet. I don't think mapping is actually good for Registered Doom or UDoom, unless you make KDITD type of levels.

This post has been edited by Nancsi: 26 May 2019 - 10:36 PM

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User is offline   Malgon 

#263

Thanks NightFright for the email link. Just sent my order confirmation through so hopefully it won't be too long before I get to play it.
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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#264

Romero still replied to me on the same day personally, providing me with info about how to get the download version. I still don't have it since something went obviously wrong with the link (didn't contain any downloads, just an info screen about successful purchase), but I am impressed by the fast handling and will hopefully get the files soon.

Update:
John hooked me up with a working link just now. You gotta give him that, he is fast and he cares about his customers.

This post has been edited by NightFright: 27 May 2019 - 02:13 AM

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User is offline   Malgon 

#265

View PostNightFright, on 27 May 2019 - 01:52 AM, said:

Romero still replied to me on the same day personally, providing me with info about how to get the download version. I still don't have it since something went obviously wrong with the link (didn't contain any downloads, just an info screen about successful purchase), but I am impressed by the fast handling and will hopefully get the files soon.

Update:
John hooked me up with a working link just now. You gotta give him that, he is fast and he cares about his customers.

Emailed and got a response from John within 20 minutes, but I've got the same link that has the same info screen. Emailing him back now so I'm hoping it won't be too much longer.

Edit: Just received the download so I'm off to play it now! <_<

This post has been edited by Malgon: 27 May 2019 - 03:30 AM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#266

Finished the episode on UV and I have to say that once you get into the swing of things this is a pretty excellent map pack. 6.66 euros well spent. <_<

There are 2 things to keep in mind:

- I think this is not meant to be played with GZDoom's usual hardware renderer, the visibility of things is just piss poor with that on. Use the software renderer or the softpoly renderer, those work great even in dark areas.
- Exploration is really the key to beating these levels: the secrets are very rewarding overall, keep an eye out for them. Unapologetically old school level design here, you need to find the items to survive but everything has a nice solution if you know what you're doing. There's a room that takes a lot of resources (HP or ammo) to explore at first sight? You can be damn sure there is secret to help you out with that.

Romero's level design still packs a punch.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 27 May 2019 - 02:42 AM

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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#267

In my email, I had expressed my hopes that Romero isn't done with Doom yet after this. His reponse was clear:

Quote

Done with DOOM after this? Depends on the general feedback about SIGIL. <_<


Usage in GZDoom couldn't be easier, btw. Load sigil.wad and sigil_shreds.wad and you are done.

This post has been edited by NightFright: 27 May 2019 - 02:52 AM

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User is offline   Aristotle Gumball 

  • banned!

#268

It plays like he designed it with the hardware limitations of 1993 still in mind, with everything crammed into tiny spaces and just the overall blockyness of the geometry.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#269

Doom Retro is Sigil ready now:
https://twitter.com/...544589519155200
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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#270

My review for the episode has been posted over at Doomworld. Short summary: It's worth it and all those that criticize it for being too hard/dark/badly textured etc. are either wrong, nitpicking or just have no idea what Doom is all about. There are some shortcomings, but overall it's highly enjoyable.
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