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Wrath: Aeon of Ruin  "Formerly "3DRealms is working on a new game""

User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#151

Aaaaand DSOGaming took the 3dfx support seriously:
https://www.dsogamin...meplay-footage/
Are we witnessing the birth of Fred's next great marketing trick? I'm not sure that the "look how sexist Bombshell was!" article needed a successor.
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User is offline   Avoozl 

#152

I hope they also add filtering as an option, I am not really a fan of pixelation on models as opposed to sprite based games.

This post has been edited by Avoozl: 09 March 2019 - 02:00 AM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#153

Yeah, it got cleared up: the game will have the usual bilinear filtering from Darkplaces but they'll most likely call that feature "3dfx mode" or something like that in the options. That's cool and all.
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User is offline   Aristotle Gumball 

  • banned!

#154

View PostZaxx, on 09 March 2019 - 02:17 AM, said:

Yeah, it got cleared up: the game will have the usual bilinear filtering from Darkplaces but they'll most likely call that feature "3dfx mode" or something like that in the options.



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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#155

How dumb can people be? What purpose would a 3dfx mode have these days? In the era of fake news, one would think people get a bit more careful when reading (but also writing) announcements like this. But then again, if people cannot use their brain, what can you do?
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#156

I wouldn't call the situation that simple: I mean sure, from a logical perspective a game with 3dfx support (=support for GPUs that basically don't exist now) would be a waste of dev resources, it sounds idiotic as a feature that's advertised... BUT there is a DOS version for Retro City Rampage, there is a mod for Doom 3 that adds Voodoo 2 support and there are retro games being made for old consoles, the market for old school NES cartridges is quite big now etc. On top of that the game is being advertised as running on the Quake engine that had 3dfx and if you don't know that Wrath is specifically using Darkplaces chances are you'll believe the joke (especially after 3DR worded the "announcement": admit it, even you thought it was serious for half a second).

You don't have to be stupid, just slightly uneducated but on top of all that stuff this joke feels like something that would be possible if they wasted dev resources on it, you can absolutely downgrade the game to a level where it would chug along on a Voodoo2 while looking like ass. It's not as out of the realm of possibility as something like "Wrath coming to NES!" would be and if you don't know shit about Darkplaces but have a wide perspective of what the retro gaming scene can do these days then there is a pretty high chance that you will take it seriously.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 09 March 2019 - 03:12 AM

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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#157

The really interesting question is actually whether they will rectify the statement in that article later or not...
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#158

View PostReaperAA, on 08 March 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

Although it is early to say anything about the game but atleast the art direction is really good. Much much much better than Dusk's. I hope the level design is really good too.


I agree! DUSK left me a bit disappointed and I suspect it had much to do with David Szymanski trying too hard to make a retro shooter in a modern engine, including making it deliberately broken and ugly-looking. With Ion Maiden and WRATH, however, I feel like the developers are doing the opposite by making the best out of an aging engine.

This post has been edited by johnnythewolf: 09 March 2019 - 05:13 AM

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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#159

Man that gameplay looked very bland indeed. I'll wait and see how the final version turns out on release. Then again, I was never really a Doom/Quake fan in the first place; the maps were too abstract and same-ish.
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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#160

I guess they really overdoing this retro gimmick (wasn't a big fan of this type of marketing when it comes to some new 3DR games), this reminds me a bit of Famicom cartridge situation with Rad Rodgers.

View PostNightFright, on 09 March 2019 - 05:08 AM, said:

The really interesting question is actually whether they will rectify the statement in that article later or not...

Only if someone will tell them about it.
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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#161

When comparing this with Quake, don't forget it was a product rushed for premature release. It's noticable especially with the lack of original bosses in episodes 2-4. They were also restricted by engine limitations. Romero's initial version of Dismal Oubliette (E2M6) originally had a big entrance cave that needed to be cut since it made the map too large. Romero's departure from id, regardless how little he contributed to the game, certainly also took its toll.

Personally I hope we get a polished shooter here with which the devs are 100% satisfied, just like players, ofc. I am not worried about the length of the game as long as the levels look great, weapons feel right and monsters are fun to fight against. Not expecting a retro revolution, just a more solid experience than others delivered with e.g. Dusk or Project Warlock.

This post has been edited by NightFright: 09 March 2019 - 06:51 AM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#162

DUSK will be hard to top though + Amid Evil is shaping up to be great too (and melee is a lot more fun in it then what Wrath offers so far based on the video).
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#163

How so? I have yet to play Amid Evil, but DUSK is a fairly mediocre shooter with a mostly run-of-the-mill arsenal, generally useless power-ups and average level design.

This post has been edited by johnnythewolf: 09 March 2019 - 08:26 AM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#164

Well I don't want to write a whole page on how much I love DUSK (might end up doing just that though, we'll see) but I think it's a wonderful shooter. Yes, the arsenal is fairly simple but it has a kind of "no bullshit" approach that I like: every single one of them is easy to use, they are simple but skill based and they all pack a nice punch. And if you want interesting stuff you have some of that too: I think the sword is a great addition with the two kinds of special moves you can do if you're stacked on HP and morale (a power attack and a Jedi Knight-like block / projectile reflect) and the fact that the crossbow's bolts not only go through enemies but walls too adds a nice tactical element to dealing with enemies.

I love the items that add some additional depth to the gameplay too: you have chunks of meat you can cook on fire (similar to how ROTT did it back in the day) for some HP and soap one shots enemies (even bosses) because why not? My favorites are those weird green crystals you can break near a bunch of enemies to trigger infighting, it's not only super fun in some situations but it also makes infighting a nice little part of gameplay instead of it just being a curiosity like how it was in Doom most of the time. Really infighting is just a wonderful thing, more games should have it.

Another great idea: strafe jumping! DUSK uses a wonderful simplified version of strafe jumping where simply strafing while jumping will increase your speed with a lot of air control too. That means that you don't have to learn stuff like this to have some advanced movement in your single player FPS:

I love Quake's strafe jumping mechanic because it has a wonderful amount of depth to it but really the fact that you have to spend hours to learn it on a basic level is not good for a single player game. DUSK solves this, you don't have to learn it at all, it just works and moving around the map with it is fun as hell.

Level design: it's wonderful, mate! Sure, you won't find many levels that could be considered a great new achievement in level design but the whole experience as a whole is still awesome fro one reason: it tells a story. You start out on absolutely standard maps and that gradually gets transformed into something crazy and abstract. It's a journey and with the added bits and pieces of "lore" you can find or rather deduce it all adds up into this great sense of progression where at the end you really feel like that you got to something dark and ancient under that little town called Dusk. It like getting lost in the woods of Twin Peaks after spending a nice night at the Great Northern Hotel.

On top of all this you get great atmosphere, a surprisingly excellent soundtrack from Andrew Hulshult (it's a really cool mix of dark, melancholic ambience and metal), awesome sound design and to top it all off the last boss is voiced by an FPS legend. It's a wonderful little game.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 09 March 2019 - 10:36 AM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#165

The Turok release for Switch kind of did the same thing though. The game description is the same one used on the back of the old PC port box.
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#166

View PostZaxx, on 09 March 2019 - 10:36 AM, said:

a surprisingly excellent soundtrack from Andrew Hulshult (it's a really cool mix of dark, melancholic ambience and metal)


"Surprisingly"? You did not like his previous work?

Anyway, I do not disagree with your arguments about DUSK, but I feel the game's true potential get too few occasions to really shine: my favourite level in the entire game is E3M1 for the way it actively encouraged the player to experiment with the Sword and the Crossbow, two weapons that I just do not see the point of using when I have access to the full arsenal. In a game like Quake, every weapon has its use, but in DUSK, I tend to just stick to the Super Shotgun, the Hunting Rifle and occasionally the Mortar and the Riveteer, and I almost never bother with the rest.

As a STALKER fan, Episode 1 technically has my favourite atmosphere, but it is so boringly easy that there is just no tension to it. Also, it features some particularly badly-designed levels, like E1M5 with its cheap-ass final ambush and the absurdly small and cramped E1M6 that ends with a fight so short it does a great disservice to the Andrew Hulshult track accompanying it. I can only hope that the existing episodes get improved and expanded upon with the modding tools and that future expansions ramp up the difficulty significantly so to incentivise the full use of the arsenal.

As for now, though, the game feels to me more like an overlong tech demo sprinkled with the occasional amusing gimmicks and nods to classic games.

This post has been edited by johnnythewolf: 09 March 2019 - 01:26 PM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#167

View Postjohnnythewolf, on 09 March 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

"Surprisingly"? You did not like his previous work?

I did but for me before DUSK he was the cool dude who makes cool metal music, after DUSK I was like "wow, this guy is an amazing composer". I really like his other stuff too but to me the DUSK OST is on another level, can't wait to hear his work for Wrath.

Quote

my favourite level in the entire game is E3M1 for the way it actively encouraged the player to experiment with the Sword and the Crossbow, two weapons that I just do not see the point of using when I have access to the full arsenal.

But that's just because the other weapons are more straightforward. The crossbow is amazing on additional playthroughs where you already have an idea about the enemy placements and you can mess around a lot with the sword too even if that wouldn't be your first choice for the job. You don't need a "forced" stealth section to use the sword, you just have to be a bit creative.

I do agree on that Episode 1 is weaker in level design than the rest of the game, I just feel that it has a purpose. The difficulty is a bit lacking too in the sense that there aren't any ballbreaking parts (well, maybe the map with the enemy waves near the end) but overall I think it was just right. My guess is that they will add an additional difficulty later down the line because there were enough complaints about that... but you know, there's always the mode where every enemy can one shot you. :)
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#168

When I first heard his work from ROTT 2013 I was underwhelmed. It was just metal and there wasn't really anything else to it. He was an extremely talented guitarist and producer of metal, but it was kind of bland otherwise. However, he's really proved since then that he can do much more than that. His work on Dusk and Amid Evil was quite good indeed (especially Dusk) and I certainly call myself a fan now.

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 09 March 2019 - 03:40 PM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#169

Amid Evil's soundtrack is shaping up to be awesome too, I never thought I'd say this about Andrew but I love his subtlety. :D

Shit, the man is building atmosphere now like crazy:


I'm pretty sure Wrath's music is going to be LIT. :)
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#170

For me level design and exploration are the best part of this genre. So enemies being slow or not too threatening doesn't bother me, it can fit with the setting and just feels like getting rid of them is part of the exploration. Plus I'm sure there's more engaging combat and enemies later in the game. One of the alternatives like Amid Evil for example, where most enemies run at you kamikaze style nonstop (even after patching to reduce that), that gets tedious. The combat just becomes a chore, and there's often no rhythm or flow to it, at least from my perspective, it's just a nonstop meat grinder. Sometimes you just want to explore with a few dumb mooks around to shoot at.

I still love FPS combat, Doom 2016 did a great job reinvigorating that, but for these indie games and mods etc level design and exploration are by far my reason for playing. Dusk is cool, I'm still on episode 2, but I like how the enemies are indeed pretty slow for the most part, makes the combat feel more like just a bonus to keep you entertained. Not that I don't like challenge, but I just find too much combat can be boring for this kind of game, where I mostly want to see what's next and solve the level progression. It seems atmosphere is a big part of Wrath.

That's part of what's so unique about these classic FPS games we like, so much of them doesn't involve shooting, it's about exploration and unique maps with some light puzzles aspects. So that's what I hope keeps me engaged in Wrath.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#171

Couldn't have said it better myself, actually.
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#172

View PostPsychoGoatee, on 09 March 2019 - 06:54 PM, said:

So enemies being slow or not too threatening doesn't bother me, it can fit with the setting and just feels like getting rid of them is part of the exploration. Plus I'm sure there's more engaging combat and enemies later in the game.

You know what those slow zombies reminded me of? those emaciated humanoid monsters from REKKR that only have a close-range attack but drop ammo for your bow and are often better handled with the fists or the axe.

But the walking animation of the zombies could use some tweaking, at least to the Quake zombie style.

The areas shown in the video are very well designed though, at least visually. It's a pity they removed the old videos showing the prototype where everything was still sprites because it was pretty awesome too.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#173

View PostPsychoGoatee, on 09 March 2019 - 06:54 PM, said:

One of the alternatives like Amid Evil for example, where most enemies run at you kamikaze style nonstop (even after patching to reduce that), that gets tedious.

Even if you're playing on Evil difficulty, the game's nightmare mode they are not really an issue since the latest patch. The game had this weird problem with charging enemies where they just ran at you in a fairly large number without you having anything with a high enough DPS to counter that. So they slowed them down which was a good workaround but fighting them was still tedious. Now what they did is they buffed the Axe so that it has a higher firing rate + if an enemy is close enough the axe will suck it towards you for a fast, damaging attack. That works really-really well, melee is a lot more fun now and you can finish off those fast bastards very quickly.

As for the combat focus yeah, the game is focused around combat but the level design gets fairly complex really quick so there is a lot to explore + if you like wandering around the maps looking for secrets you've missed some way will always appear that lets you backtrack and explore even if the last area of the map happens to be a closed off space.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 10 March 2019 - 07:48 AM

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User is offline   WileTm 

#174

View PostZaxx, on 08 March 2019 - 02:17 PM, said:

Not for the next game: WRATH engine change announcement coming soon! :D


That's staying a bit TOO true to the 3DR legacy. :)
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User is online   brullov 

  • Senior Artist at TGK

#175

I had a chance to try the demo, it was solid. The level design, art direction, gameplay. The whole atmosphere of that little demo impressed me enough. Wrath — instabuy after release.

Trailer was too short and fast for me, I had a bit another feelings playing this game.
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#176

Lucky you! Do you know if they plan on publicly releasing the demo eventually?
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User is offline   Lunick 

#177

View Postjohnnythewolf, on 10 March 2019 - 05:22 PM, said:

Lucky you! Do you know if they plan on publicly releasing the demo eventually?


The announcement said a "taste" was coming Q3 this year. It's also in their FAQ on Steam https://steamcommuni...85838066712893/
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#178

That "taste" is bothering me a bit: I just don't see the point of releasing an incomplete, unpolished version of the game. Every single retro shooter that chose this path (DUSK, Amid Evil, Ion Maiden) got to early access in a state that was just not ideal, I mean just compare the originally released version of the IM preview campaign to how it is now! The performance got better, general visibility / readability got from "quite shit" to excellent, the alternate firing modes made sense out of the SMGs and now that I got to the SMGs: it's just great how visible the projectiles are, you can actually aim with those machine guns now. And of course the 1.0 version will be even better.

Sure, I know that I can make my own choices so I won't buy Wrath until the actual release date but I just feel that this whole early access schtick is kinda ruining the first impression to some people. Guess the point is to save money on QA?

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 10 March 2019 - 07:45 PM

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User is offline   Lunick 

#179

View PostZaxx, on 10 March 2019 - 07:44 PM, said:

Sure, I know that I can make my own choices so I won't buy Wrath until the actual release date but I just feel that this whole early access schtick is kinda ruining the first impression to some people. Guess the point is to save money on QA?

It's not really "QA" if it's only a very small portion of the game (in Ion Maiden's case) though.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#180

Yeah, that's how I feel too, I mean I'm sure that some stuff was implemented for IM because of player feedback but I don't think it was that much and when it comes to testing the game a short preview doesn't help much. In the case of DUSK and AE early access may have more of a reason to exist because those games are released episodically so player feedback has more of an impact on stuff like level design but even for those games I think a developer would just get to the same level of polish internally too.

Of course for IM there is the "we promised something to people who bought Bombshell so we had to deliver a tiny bit of the full game early" reasoning (even though that could have been done differently too) but I have no idea why 3DR is doing the same thing with Wrath. Even for sales it doesn't have much of an effect, after release DUSK sold more in its first week than during the whole early access period so you really can't "cash in" early.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 10 March 2019 - 08:05 PM

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